59: Felix + Emil Abrahamsson - Fantasy Climbing League Creators
You likely know Emil from being one of the OG climbing Youtubers who has also competed in a few world cups for Sweden. With his brother, Felix, they have started a new Fantasy Climbing League platform! In this episode, we’ll learn about how the Fantasy Climbing League works, how they feel about sports gambling in climbing, who their top picks are for their teams, and their predictions for all things competition.
Show Notes
Guest links:
Reference links:
Timestamps
Timestamps of discussion topics
0:00 - Intro
1:21 - Mad Rock Shoutout!!
2:01 - Living in Arco
5:22 - Starting climbing and competing
14:26 - Existential AI talk
17:14 - Fantasy Climbing League overview
21:10 - They've never played fantasy sports before!!
22:47 - Drafting strategy
25:37 - Are fantasy leagues gambling-adjacent??
33:36 - Top picks of the season
42:07 - Are injury comebacks good picks?
45:13 - Janja vs Ai debate
52:26 - Will Tomoa have a downfall?!
1:00:03 - Tomoa v Meichi?
1:02:37 - AUDIENCE Q: What style of comp climbing would change the results the most?
1:10:21 - AUDIENCE Q: What will the future of comp climbing look like?
1:13:38 - AUDIENCE Q: What expectations should a comp beginner have?
1:18:04 - AUDIENCE Q: What's your favorite WoW dungeon?
1:19:05 - Join Fantasy Climbing League ASAP!!!
-
WEBVTT
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what i like to view comps as is you get to have
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like these perfectly curated boulders probably
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suited to your level depending on what level
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of the comp you're entering i told my friend
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about this fantasy league and he told his friends
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that weren't even climbers and they said they
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would be so psyched to just try this out and
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they don't even watch competition climbing but
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this would make them interested in watching it
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like emma said we really don't want to promote
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gambling um of course and so So I think in a
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way, Janja could see a downfall, like she might
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play second a few times in comps. Welcome to
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another episode of the That's Not World Climbing
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podcast. I'm your host Jinni, and I'm excited
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to introduce my guests for today, Emil and Felix
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Abrahamsson. You likely know Emil from being one
00:00:47.759 --> 00:00:50.340
of the OG climbing YouTubers who has also competed
00:00:50.340 --> 00:00:53.429
in a few World Cups for Sweden. With his brother
00:00:53.429 --> 00:00:56.090
Felix, they've started a new Fantasy Climbing
00:00:56.090 --> 00:00:58.530
League platform. In this episode, we'll learn
00:00:58.530 --> 00:01:00.350
about how the Fantasy Climbing League works,
00:01:00.549 --> 00:01:03.009
how they feel about sports gambling and climbing,
00:01:03.310 --> 00:01:06.349
who their top picks are for their teams, and
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their predictions for all things comp climbing.
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I hope you enjoy this episode with Emil and Felix.
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Please pardon this brief intermission, but I'm
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excited to talk about Madrock's newest and softest
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volumes in competitions, then this is the soft
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Feel free to message me if you have any questions
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entire Mad Rock order. Thank you to Mad Rock
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for helping to sponsor the podcast. Now back
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to the show. You said you'll be together after
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on the April 23rd? Yes, that's correct. Right,
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Felix? That's when you guys get to ARCO. Yep.
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What are you guys doing there? So I live here
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in ARCO since December. Yeah. And now the family's
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coming to visit for a few days. So Felix and
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our mother are popping over to say hi to the
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sun after the grim Swedish winter. Okay. At first
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I thought you meant sun as in like a boy. I was
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like, wait, did I miss something very big? Yeah,
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sorry about that. That was unclear. And that's
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the first time? Yeah, first time being in Arco
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at all. It'd be really cool. What was the reason
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for the move? um i am currently in a position
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where i can move around a little bit more than
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most other times in life so i figured it's time
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to try something outside of sweden for a little
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while and uh yeah arco was a pretty premium destination
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for it you know it's no place to be it's a good
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place to be outdoor climbing and stuff yeah there's
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like so many sport routes to get on there's a
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lot of fun climbers it's kind of like a little
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it's very much a climbing town All the stores
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have climbing gear in them. Everything is just
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climbing everywhere. So it's perfect for somebody
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who's heavily addicted to the sport. I don't
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know too much about Arco because I don't know
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that much about outdoor climbing. But that's
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okay because this is all about competitions.
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And we'll get into that today. Where do you live,
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by the way? I'm in San Diego, California in the
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US. You been? not to san diego but we went to
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uh the mad rock headquarters last year it's a
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little bit around la and then we popped over
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to vegas so i've been in the area a little bit
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and we actually took a tour when we were like
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15 and 18 with our family from i think it was
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la to san francisco so we missed san diego yeah
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um i also did live in vegas for a year so i was
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there for a bit But I left because I wanted more
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like comp style setting. I did not do that in
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Vegas if you went to any of the gyms there. Oh,
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yeah, I heard. Yeah. Did you used to compete
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or do you compete? No, I did not. I just prefer
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I had dreams. I have I had some dreams of doing
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some competitions that I've kind of set aside
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for now because of work and also injuries. But
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I wanted to, still want to, but maybe next year.
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This year, it's not happening for me. Well, so
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it sounds like you both competed. To some degree.
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I mean, Emil a lot more than me. I guess I competed
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in kind of a casual way. I never really aspired
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much to compete. I was always really bad at it.
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I guess I'm bad at almost all aspects of competition.
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I'm bad at flashing. I'm bad at the style. I
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was decent at kind of like the mental game and
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strategy, but that's definitely not enough. But
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I definitely do enjoy it. It's really fun. So
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I wish I was good at it. I think I'm along the
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same lines as you then, yeah. So then how did
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you both get into starting out climbing and then
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a bit of competing and actual competing? i mean
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felix is the the og of the two he picked it up
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a few months before me um back in 20 you started
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in 2011 right felix and then i started in 2012.
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yeah So we were teenagers at the time. We kind
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of missed. It's a bit of a shame, actually, because
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we did technically start climbing when I was
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like eight or nine with our parents. But we only
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went a few times and then we dropped it to play
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video games and do other stuff instead. And then
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picked it up like six or seven years later. And
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I'm kind of like, oh, damn, would have been fun
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to start that early. Missed so many years. So
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technically you did start it early and then you
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decided that games would be more fun. Yeah, I
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don't know what was going on. Definitely a bad
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call. And which one of you is older? That would
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be me. He's three years older. So you started
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climbing slightly later, like in your teenager
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years. When did you both start competing? I think
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I did my first competition very shortly after,
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like maybe one year after I started climbing.
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I was around 16 or 17. Because we have this thing
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in the Nordic countries called the Nordic Championships,
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which is like... a very very nice format actually
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it's the nordic countries so finland uh sweden
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denmark norway and iceland and they all get together
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for this like quite official big competition
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but it's at the same time almost a little bit
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casual like everybody wants to join in if it's
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around it's not that like pro level necessarily
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um so it's and it makes the setting quite a bit
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easier so even if you've only climbed for a year
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and you're Well, I mean, if you're a little bit
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maybe skilled and committed to climbing, you
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can be there and sort of get some zones, maybe
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a top or two here and there. So it's quite a
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fantastic format to get into competition climbing,
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actually. And that was across all the countries?
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Yeah, yeah, it is across all the countries. I
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mean, I was in the youth at that time. So it's
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maybe like 50 kids or something or so competing
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at that time. I don't think it went very well,
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but it was really, really fun. Yeah, exactly.
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It's not that big. It's not like, you know, a
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thousand kids getting together or anything. And
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it's a great way to connect to the community
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and sort of get in touch with people who are
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equally as psyched on climbing from the other
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countries. Would you say it's still like that
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size nowadays? I'm not sure about the youth category.
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The seniors, Felix, you've done the Nordic probably.
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Have you done it more than me? I've never done
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the Nordic championships, but. My perception
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of this is that it's definitely a lot bigger
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and more serious now. At least the Swedish, like
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the national comps in Sweden, they've really
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tried to kind of step it up and make it a little
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more prestigious. When I got into competition,
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that was in 2016 or 15 or something, and that
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was the Swedish championship. i was just i was
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deep into outdoor climbing at the time and we
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had gone to we had gone there so em could compete
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and i was just outside climbing and uh i had
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a project and i said okay if i do this project
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then then i'll join the competition and then
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i did it and i came there like the day of the
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comp and just can i can i be in i think that's
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kind of like yeah i mean that's kind of like
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how the vibe was back then you kind of just like
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showed up and you could you could just pop in
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and and uh and participate and uh it's yeah it
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was very casual very like yeah very casual vibes
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and nowadays it's you have to qualify and uh
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yeah it's it's uh the competition is really stiff
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now like i would say the back then it would be
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like maybe the the top level like the top six
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climbers were really strong and then the after
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that like the level dropped quite a bit but nowadays
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you have like at least 20 people that are actually
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really strong yeah growing sport for sure i was
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trying to remember which trip it was because
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we had uh we were basically living in in cow
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manure for a few days before this comp i think
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and just came in like absolute dirtbags and it's
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a nice memory of mine because we uh yeah it was
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just when we really got into competition climbing
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i would say that 2016 trip if it's the one i'm
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thinking of at least yeah yeah yeah yeah we were
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intense yeah yeah came in probably like Not at
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all ready for a competition, just super wrecked,
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but it was a good time for sure. And so that
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was your first one? For me, though, well, yeah,
00:10:09.200 --> 00:10:12.539
I would think so, unless there was some very
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casual competition before that, but I don't know.
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So you guys didn't really go through this whole
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youth comp scene growing into a senior category
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kind of thing? I mean, I started when I was 19,
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so I was well past that already. I guess you
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might have done some, Emil, or? so i did that
00:10:29.899 --> 00:10:33.340
nordic youth championship um and then i went
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straight for the senior championships when i
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was 18 and i made that year when we were when
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you first competed felix that's when i made my
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first finals back in 2016 at the swedish championships
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that is and from there i i went on to sort of
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just do the nationals for a few years until 2020
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so then i'd made finals like five years in a
00:11:00.100 --> 00:11:02.840
row and was starting to feel ready to do more
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uh like bigger competitions and join the national
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team uh there in 2020 just before covet actually
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so it's not the best timing uh so i ended up
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doing my first world cup in 2021 in meiringen
00:11:16.159 --> 00:11:19.840
how did those go oh well that's the thing so
00:11:19.840 --> 00:11:24.519
this well there's two things the style that for
00:11:24.519 --> 00:11:26.759
competitions in sweden was very very different
00:11:26.759 --> 00:11:29.580
from the world cups and the difficulty of course
00:11:29.580 --> 00:11:32.320
as well so making finals at the swedish championships
00:11:32.320 --> 00:11:35.840
at that time definitely didn't qualify you for
00:11:35.840 --> 00:11:38.899
the world cups like physically speaking like
00:11:38.899 --> 00:11:41.600
for the country yes you want to have people representing
00:11:41.600 --> 00:11:44.799
so it makes sense to qualify that way um but
00:11:44.799 --> 00:11:47.600
there was so so much to learn in terms of how
00:11:47.600 --> 00:11:50.620
you climb at the world cups the style The holds,
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just everything was quite different. So the first
00:11:52.860 --> 00:11:54.820
couple of competitions, I got pretty smacked
00:11:54.820 --> 00:11:58.200
and struggled quite a lot. But the thing is,
00:11:58.259 --> 00:12:01.360
it's just a tremendously fun experience regardless.
00:12:02.179 --> 00:12:06.080
So many inspiring climbers to, you know, just
00:12:06.080 --> 00:12:09.740
chill around with, learn from. So I was very
00:12:09.740 --> 00:12:11.620
happy to do them, but I don't think I made more
00:12:11.620 --> 00:12:15.720
than a few zones at my first World Cup and struggled
00:12:15.720 --> 00:12:19.610
quite a lot, got shut down. A few zones isn't
00:12:19.610 --> 00:12:21.610
bad. I think a lot of people would be quite happy
00:12:21.610 --> 00:12:24.389
with a few zones. Yeah. So you're both still
00:12:24.389 --> 00:12:27.850
quite involved in the climbing scene. Emil, you
00:12:27.850 --> 00:12:30.830
obviously do YouTube. Did you start that before
00:12:30.830 --> 00:12:33.970
you actually did that like World Cup and Marine
00:12:33.970 --> 00:12:37.909
Games? Yeah, I started YouTube in 2019. So I
00:12:37.909 --> 00:12:40.129
guess the year before, yeah, the year before
00:12:40.129 --> 00:12:43.029
my first, like before I entered the national
00:12:43.029 --> 00:12:46.690
team. then i was just doing youtube and the goal
00:12:46.690 --> 00:12:48.750
at first was to focus a lot on outdoor climbing
00:12:48.750 --> 00:12:51.870
i've always been sort of in between the two worlds
00:12:51.870 --> 00:12:55.610
um i'm very passionate about rock climbing um
00:12:55.610 --> 00:12:59.009
but i think it's quite quite easy to get hooked
00:12:59.009 --> 00:13:01.490
on comps like you can just practice the same
00:13:01.490 --> 00:13:03.070
thing over and over again and knock your head
00:13:03.070 --> 00:13:05.090
against the wall and that's a really really cool
00:13:05.090 --> 00:13:06.909
element to the sport there's always new moves
00:13:06.909 --> 00:13:10.269
and it's generally like i mean you can be on
00:13:10.269 --> 00:13:12.690
a slab for like six hours and not get incredibly
00:13:12.690 --> 00:13:17.080
tired which is really really fun Um, so yeah,
00:13:17.220 --> 00:13:20.279
it was a bit of a transition between the two.
00:13:20.340 --> 00:13:22.259
I think I covered some of the world cups on the
00:13:22.259 --> 00:13:23.620
channel in the beginning and thought that that
00:13:23.620 --> 00:13:25.220
was really, really fun as well. Just talking
00:13:25.220 --> 00:13:28.139
about the mentality that went behind it. And
00:13:28.139 --> 00:13:31.820
then Felix, you, um, are a machine learning engineer.
00:13:32.500 --> 00:13:36.220
Exactly. So I built like, yeah, a few climbing
00:13:36.220 --> 00:13:40.179
apps. Yeah. I, I always thought like if I, um,
00:13:40.570 --> 00:13:42.570
If I retired from work or if I, for whatever
00:13:42.570 --> 00:13:44.370
reason, didn't have to work, I would spend all
00:13:44.370 --> 00:13:48.370
my time just building climbing apps. It's a lot
00:13:48.370 --> 00:13:52.070
of fun to combine those two things. Yeah, I built
00:13:52.070 --> 00:13:56.049
board climbs, a spray wall app. I want to say
00:13:56.049 --> 00:13:59.450
the first spray wall app that had automatic hole
00:13:59.450 --> 00:14:01.490
detection. Now there's at least one more out
00:14:01.490 --> 00:14:04.669
there that has that. So there I kind of combined
00:14:04.669 --> 00:14:07.529
my machine learning knowledge to build that.
00:14:08.690 --> 00:14:11.210
And, yeah, it's an app where you can, like, you
00:14:11.210 --> 00:14:13.529
can upload a photo of your spray wall and it
00:14:13.529 --> 00:14:15.330
finds the holes for you. And then you can, like,
00:14:15.330 --> 00:14:18.389
create problems on there and log them and share
00:14:18.389 --> 00:14:23.509
them with your friends and so on. And then, yeah,
00:14:23.590 --> 00:14:28.029
now built the fantasy climbing sites. Yeah, and
00:14:28.029 --> 00:14:30.870
we'll definitely get into that in a bit. Just
00:14:30.870 --> 00:14:33.909
kind of curious. So I'm also, I'm like a software
00:14:33.909 --> 00:14:36.690
engineer. How much AI do you use to build your
00:14:36.690 --> 00:14:44.080
apps nowadays? Well, quite a lot, I would say.
00:14:44.519 --> 00:14:48.460
I mean, coming from a machine learning background,
00:14:48.879 --> 00:14:54.139
I will definitely jump on these tools to try
00:14:54.139 --> 00:14:58.240
them as soon as they come, right? And I use it
00:14:58.240 --> 00:15:01.919
a lot, for sure. It would be crazy not to. It's
00:15:01.919 --> 00:15:04.539
massively helpful, which has also kind of led
00:15:04.539 --> 00:15:08.179
me to think, well this sort of dream of retiring
00:15:08.179 --> 00:15:10.720
and just building climbing apps it's kind of
00:15:10.720 --> 00:15:13.879
like it's gonna saturate really fast because
00:15:13.879 --> 00:15:16.159
of how fast you can build things like there's
00:15:16.159 --> 00:15:18.659
it's not that much time that you have to actually
00:15:18.659 --> 00:15:23.879
spend anymore so it's it's a sad in a way i would
00:15:23.879 --> 00:15:27.759
say yeah so your dream is crushed now i mean
00:15:27.759 --> 00:15:30.840
i i kind of feel like like that that must be
00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:35.289
a little bit what like artists feel like or I
00:15:35.289 --> 00:15:37.090
don't know, people that have AI take over their
00:15:37.090 --> 00:15:40.269
jobs. I mean, it's like, I feel also like it's
00:15:40.269 --> 00:15:44.970
different than for an artist because an artist
00:15:44.970 --> 00:15:47.169
is doing something creative and it's still probably
00:15:47.169 --> 00:15:50.870
fun to create art, even though an AI can produce
00:15:50.870 --> 00:15:55.230
like mass produce art. But with programming or
00:15:55.230 --> 00:15:59.470
software development, it's just problem solving.
00:15:59.610 --> 00:16:01.970
It's kind of like just beating your head against
00:16:01.970 --> 00:16:04.700
the wall sometimes. And so it's always going
00:16:04.700 --> 00:16:06.980
to be, you're always going to want to use the
00:16:06.980 --> 00:16:08.779
AI tools. You're not just going to go back to
00:16:08.779 --> 00:16:13.799
programming yourself for the fun of it. So I
00:16:13.799 --> 00:16:16.460
don't know, it definitely feels quite sad to
00:16:16.460 --> 00:16:18.940
me. I guess now it's more about, I guess, like
00:16:18.940 --> 00:16:22.299
the ideas you come up with rather than if you
00:16:22.299 --> 00:16:25.879
can code it or not. Yeah, no, I still feel like
00:16:25.879 --> 00:16:28.759
we're kind of at a point where it helps to also
00:16:28.759 --> 00:16:32.580
be a software engineer. Like you do. you can,
00:16:32.580 --> 00:16:34.740
you can build a lot better software and like,
00:16:34.740 --> 00:16:38.000
you can make it more bug proof and whatever.
00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:41.360
And with, cause it's still like, it's a tool
00:16:41.360 --> 00:16:43.720
that will help you. It's not a replacement entirely,
00:16:43.860 --> 00:16:48.220
but I also, I mean, I also suspect that in, in
00:16:48.220 --> 00:16:50.980
within a few years, it will probably complete,
00:16:51.100 --> 00:16:53.320
like you won't have to have any software development
00:16:53.320 --> 00:16:59.399
knowledge. Okay. Yeah. I hope not. I hope not.
00:16:59.440 --> 00:17:02.179
I'm scared of that too. Right. But like, It just
00:17:02.179 --> 00:17:03.899
kind of feels like it's going in that direction.
00:17:04.279 --> 00:17:07.319
And I don't know. I don't know this any more
00:17:07.319 --> 00:17:09.519
than anyone else. Yeah, we'll see how it goes.
00:17:10.259 --> 00:17:12.400
I feel like it's slightly more about the idea,
00:17:12.519 --> 00:17:14.700
which is why I'm excited that you guys created
00:17:14.700 --> 00:17:16.759
the Fantasy Climbing League. Do you guys want
00:17:16.759 --> 00:17:18.900
to give a brief overview of what that's going
00:17:18.900 --> 00:17:21.960
to be like? How points and scoring work? So,
00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:25.259
I mean, a Fantasy League, if I just give a broad
00:17:25.259 --> 00:17:28.609
idea for people who don't know. um it's kind
00:17:28.609 --> 00:17:31.349
of like a little mini game for different sports
00:17:31.349 --> 00:17:34.670
so if you took it in in soccer you might give
00:17:34.670 --> 00:17:37.190
a little guess for you you can create like a
00:17:37.190 --> 00:17:39.710
team of players and then you can give a guess
00:17:39.710 --> 00:17:43.950
for their scoring in different uh matches so
00:17:43.950 --> 00:17:46.789
in climbing it's it's quite similar um you can
00:17:46.789 --> 00:17:51.079
create a team of different athletes so You have
00:17:51.079 --> 00:17:55.200
a certain amount of credits or virtual money
00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:57.359
to spend on your athletes, and you can create
00:17:57.359 --> 00:17:59.839
a team that you think will do well in the competitions.
00:18:00.140 --> 00:18:03.039
And the scoring is based off of your athletes'
00:18:03.180 --> 00:18:06.220
placements in each World Cup. So, for instance,
00:18:06.339 --> 00:18:10.940
the more high -performing athletes from the previous
00:18:10.940 --> 00:18:14.259
seasons, like Sorato, would cost a lot, so you
00:18:14.259 --> 00:18:17.099
can't have all the best ones in your team. And
00:18:17.099 --> 00:18:19.039
instead, you have to figure out which ones are
00:18:19.039 --> 00:18:21.750
maybe a little bit... cheaper based on their
00:18:21.750 --> 00:18:23.710
previous year, but that you think have evolved
00:18:23.710 --> 00:18:26.750
and will perform this year instead. So in short,
00:18:26.849 --> 00:18:30.009
it's a way to create like some, some idea of
00:18:30.009 --> 00:18:32.289
who you think you will perform at the competitions
00:18:32.289 --> 00:18:34.690
and then, you know, get you hyped up for when
00:18:34.690 --> 00:18:36.750
those climbers are out on the mats. To expand
00:18:36.750 --> 00:18:39.589
a little bit on what Emil said there. So there
00:18:39.589 --> 00:18:43.170
are, there are different ways to kind of like
00:18:43.170 --> 00:18:46.480
create your team within fantasy leagues. Just
00:18:46.480 --> 00:18:49.019
speaking broadly about how people do fantasy
00:18:49.019 --> 00:18:51.339
leagues and other sports, you can also have drafting
00:18:51.339 --> 00:18:55.480
where you get together with friends and one person
00:18:55.480 --> 00:18:59.799
picks an athlete for their team and you go in
00:18:59.799 --> 00:19:03.299
a round -robin way and the next person picks
00:19:03.299 --> 00:19:05.339
and then that athlete just cannot be selected
00:19:05.339 --> 00:19:09.299
twice. That's something that a lot of people
00:19:09.299 --> 00:19:14.390
have requested for fantasy league. which we have
00:19:14.390 --> 00:19:18.049
chosen not to do that now. But if a lot of people
00:19:18.049 --> 00:19:20.730
want it, we'll probably add it for next year.
00:19:21.230 --> 00:19:24.390
And the system that Emil described now is this
00:19:24.390 --> 00:19:27.170
credit -based system. And there is also another
00:19:27.170 --> 00:19:31.130
system in the app that was actually, it was the
00:19:31.130 --> 00:19:34.950
original system where you have athletes divided
00:19:34.950 --> 00:19:38.750
into tiers. So you have like the S tier of the
00:19:38.750 --> 00:19:41.170
top 10 best athletes, and then you have the A
00:19:41.170 --> 00:19:44.230
tier with the next 20 or so, and then everyone
00:19:44.230 --> 00:19:47.130
else is the B tier. And you can choose at most
00:19:47.130 --> 00:19:49.890
two athletes from the A tier and at most two
00:19:49.890 --> 00:19:52.470
from the B tier and so on. And the reason that
00:19:52.470 --> 00:19:57.630
was the original was when we did this the first
00:19:57.630 --> 00:20:00.710
time, it was a couple of friends of ours that
00:20:00.710 --> 00:20:04.369
ran a fantasy league just with an Excel sheet
00:20:04.369 --> 00:20:07.579
a few years ago. Uh, that that's, so this was
00:20:07.579 --> 00:20:11.900
not really our original idea, but they, um, yeah,
00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:13.940
so they just, they just had an Excel sheet and
00:20:13.940 --> 00:20:17.279
it was kind of a lot of work. Um, it was so much
00:20:17.279 --> 00:20:19.240
fun though. And we, we ran it with this tier
00:20:19.240 --> 00:20:21.799
system, which was like, had a lot, it had a lot
00:20:21.799 --> 00:20:25.519
of flaws, obviously. Like if you have one athlete
00:20:25.519 --> 00:20:27.779
that's way better than everyone else, like Yanya,
00:20:27.940 --> 00:20:30.759
then everyone's going to be picking Yanya or
00:20:30.759 --> 00:20:33.720
everyone's going to be picking Serato. But even
00:20:33.720 --> 00:20:38.000
so, it was so much fun. And so that's kind of
00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:42.519
like how this all started. We figured, well,
00:20:42.680 --> 00:20:45.539
why not just make an app that does all the annoying
00:20:45.539 --> 00:20:48.920
stuff for you? And a lot of people, like everyone
00:20:48.920 --> 00:20:54.059
can enjoy it. But yeah, the credit system is
00:20:54.059 --> 00:20:58.230
what we think is probably... the the better system
00:20:58.230 --> 00:21:00.670
out of those two and so that's probably like
00:21:00.670 --> 00:21:02.930
we could have just removed the tier system but
00:21:02.930 --> 00:21:04.829
we figured like this is kind of like a testing
00:21:04.829 --> 00:21:07.769
season and we'll see we'll get feedback see what
00:21:07.769 --> 00:21:11.529
people like and and kind of develop it from there
00:21:11.529 --> 00:21:14.609
cool to learn how it started um so have you guys
00:21:14.609 --> 00:21:17.430
done a lot of other sports fantasy leagues before
00:21:17.430 --> 00:21:21.430
no i think neither of us have any experience
00:21:21.430 --> 00:21:27.170
with that and so Other than that one time we
00:21:27.170 --> 00:21:30.109
did it for climbing, I've been trying to kind
00:21:30.109 --> 00:21:32.150
of like research a bit and like ask other people
00:21:32.150 --> 00:21:34.349
how this is usually done. That's kind of like
00:21:34.349 --> 00:21:37.450
where the credit system came from and also the
00:21:37.450 --> 00:21:39.210
drafting. But the drafting is like, it's a little
00:21:39.210 --> 00:21:42.150
bit annoying to implement and fit into everything
00:21:42.150 --> 00:21:43.950
else. So that's kind of why we skipped that for
00:21:43.950 --> 00:21:48.470
now. And also we think that it will be a lot
00:21:48.470 --> 00:21:51.089
of fun to have kind of like large public leagues.
00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:54.640
with like thousands of people in them and then
00:21:54.640 --> 00:21:58.019
you can't really do drafting. So yeah. I've only
00:21:58.019 --> 00:22:02.240
ever tried like fantasy football one time last
00:22:02.240 --> 00:22:05.799
year. So that's all the experience I have with
00:22:05.799 --> 00:22:07.680
it. And you have this like round Robin draft,
00:22:07.819 --> 00:22:12.400
I guess. But I guess I also wonder with climbing
00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:15.859
specifically, there's not as many athletes who
00:22:15.859 --> 00:22:19.160
you would probably want to pick. So that might
00:22:19.160 --> 00:22:22.740
also have to do with the whole. not drafting
00:22:22.740 --> 00:22:25.019
the same players kind of thing absolutely that's
00:22:25.019 --> 00:22:27.259
also a reason why i thought that drafting might
00:22:27.259 --> 00:22:30.079
not work as well because the pool is just smaller
00:22:30.079 --> 00:22:33.220
if you compare it with like football or yeah
00:22:33.220 --> 00:22:36.640
other sports where you have like hundreds thousands
00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:40.240
of athletes to pick from and the the top level
00:22:40.240 --> 00:22:44.079
is maybe not as uh well you know the the the
00:22:44.079 --> 00:22:49.950
steepness yeah exactly yeah thank you um how
00:22:49.950 --> 00:22:52.289
do you feel like the strategy differs between
00:22:52.289 --> 00:22:56.190
the tier base versus points based drafting yeah
00:22:56.190 --> 00:23:02.009
i mean the it's supposed to be constructed so
00:23:02.009 --> 00:23:06.190
that the athlete credits reflect how many points
00:23:06.190 --> 00:23:09.509
they're expected to gather for your team just
00:23:09.509 --> 00:23:15.390
probabilistically so um you sh like it should
00:23:15.390 --> 00:23:18.410
be like you should be equally your team should
00:23:18.410 --> 00:23:22.930
be equally likely to score well. Um, if you just
00:23:22.930 --> 00:23:27.289
pick a bunch of, uh, maybe lower valued athletes
00:23:27.289 --> 00:23:29.730
as if you picked like four really strong ones.
00:23:30.410 --> 00:23:34.069
So you could, I saw when we, I guess that that
00:23:34.069 --> 00:23:36.049
is not a good representation, but we ran this
00:23:36.049 --> 00:23:39.710
like beta test, um, which was just, it was just
00:23:39.710 --> 00:23:42.029
a copy of the 2025 system. So obviously people
00:23:42.029 --> 00:23:45.039
could just, um, could just look at the results
00:23:45.039 --> 00:23:47.500
if they figured that out. But I did see some
00:23:47.500 --> 00:23:49.960
teams perform really well that only had four
00:23:49.960 --> 00:23:52.319
athletes, which was a surprise to me. I thought,
00:23:52.319 --> 00:23:54.940
because the limit is six, and I thought that
00:23:54.940 --> 00:23:57.180
you would want to have six athletes on your team.
00:23:57.319 --> 00:23:59.839
We haven't really tried the credit system so
00:23:59.839 --> 00:24:03.619
much yet, practically speaking. So it's a little
00:24:03.619 --> 00:24:06.440
bit hard to say. I feel like with the tier lists,
00:24:06.700 --> 00:24:08.799
the big issue is always going to be just the
00:24:08.799 --> 00:24:11.599
fact that there's a lot of top tier athletes.
00:24:12.619 --> 00:24:14.859
they might not be quite equally as good like
00:24:14.859 --> 00:24:16.599
the bottom of the tier to the top of the same
00:24:16.599 --> 00:24:19.339
tier can be a little bit different so it's for
00:24:19.339 --> 00:24:21.680
for bigger leagues it's a little bit more tricky
00:24:21.680 --> 00:24:24.700
to use that system like if we had a thousand
00:24:24.700 --> 00:24:27.359
people who joined one of the fancy leagues uh
00:24:27.359 --> 00:24:29.400
let's say the bouldering season for instance
00:24:29.400 --> 00:24:33.619
um it'd be sort of impossible to get good separation
00:24:33.619 --> 00:24:36.559
with the tier lists i would believe because people
00:24:36.559 --> 00:24:38.240
would pick the same teams but with the credit
00:24:38.240 --> 00:24:41.160
system you really have to dive into what the
00:24:41.160 --> 00:24:42.660
athletes what do you think the athletes can do
00:24:42.660 --> 00:24:45.279
and you can look at for instance the asian championships
00:24:45.279 --> 00:24:47.799
and like oh okay how did these perform oh how
00:24:47.799 --> 00:24:50.779
was it last year okay there these guys are this
00:24:50.779 --> 00:24:53.279
guy is way stronger and she is way stronger and
00:24:53.279 --> 00:24:55.579
then you pick them for your team based off of
00:24:55.579 --> 00:24:58.059
that like based on their improvements as athletes
00:24:58.059 --> 00:25:01.000
which with the credit system i feel like you
00:25:01.000 --> 00:25:03.200
kind of have to dig into the sport a little bit
00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:05.900
deeper so it's kind of more complex in a way
00:25:05.900 --> 00:25:08.900
like it gives the the user a lot more flexibility
00:25:08.900 --> 00:25:13.210
and and you know deep dive into this board i
00:25:13.210 --> 00:25:16.950
think you will see much more like it opens up
00:25:16.950 --> 00:25:19.190
more options and you'll have more kind of like
00:25:19.190 --> 00:25:22.089
dynamic teams whereas like with with a tier based
00:25:22.089 --> 00:25:25.190
system everyone is always going to pick two s
00:25:25.190 --> 00:25:28.430
tier athletes like it would be stupid not to
00:25:28.430 --> 00:25:31.390
and then two b tier a tier athletes and so on
00:25:31.390 --> 00:25:34.690
um but with the credit based system you might
00:25:34.690 --> 00:25:38.609
do really well picking a few lower tiered athletes
00:25:39.769 --> 00:25:42.069
Regarding fantasy leagues and things like that,
00:25:42.150 --> 00:25:45.789
do you have any concerns about the tangentially
00:25:45.789 --> 00:25:51.009
gambling -related aspects of league sports? I
00:25:51.009 --> 00:25:53.589
feel like we've tried to dive into how it could
00:25:53.589 --> 00:25:55.609
become problematic a little bit, because there
00:25:55.609 --> 00:25:57.710
were some people who asked about that, and I
00:25:57.710 --> 00:26:00.690
hadn't really considered that as a thing. Because
00:26:00.690 --> 00:26:05.990
for me, I go into it with a gaming mindset. My
00:26:05.990 --> 00:26:09.750
background is just... being a nerd at things.
00:26:10.089 --> 00:26:14.970
And I would say I'm quite anti -gambling. So
00:26:14.970 --> 00:26:18.549
I really hope there's no way that it could create
00:26:18.549 --> 00:26:22.990
gambling problems. It's definitely something
00:26:22.990 --> 00:26:25.890
to be concerned about, but I feel like that would
00:26:25.890 --> 00:26:28.950
correlate more with the size of the sport. Like
00:26:28.950 --> 00:26:32.750
if climbing grew to be gigantic as a spectating
00:26:32.750 --> 00:26:37.380
sport. then gambling would probably be something
00:26:37.380 --> 00:26:40.480
that starts to happen around it. And I just don't
00:26:40.480 --> 00:26:43.420
feel like a fancy league would be the starting
00:26:43.420 --> 00:26:45.559
point of it necessarily, unless we implemented
00:26:45.559 --> 00:26:47.740
gambling, which we will definitely never do.
00:26:48.079 --> 00:26:50.680
Okay, no plans for that in the future. No way.
00:26:52.279 --> 00:26:56.880
Definitely not. I mean, this is strictly a passion
00:26:56.880 --> 00:27:00.160
project for us. At first we talked about like,
00:27:00.180 --> 00:27:03.369
should we monetize it? Should we not? The only
00:27:03.369 --> 00:27:05.730
thing we discussed is potentially starting up
00:27:05.730 --> 00:27:08.349
like a Patreon where maybe I'll create some content
00:27:08.349 --> 00:27:10.230
throughout competitions or maybe some merch,
00:27:10.430 --> 00:27:14.329
but that would just be to sort of make it sustainable
00:27:14.329 --> 00:27:16.529
in case the fantasy league became like massive
00:27:16.529 --> 00:27:20.990
or something. So it's, I just don't see it being
00:27:20.990 --> 00:27:24.430
a problem for us because we're both against the
00:27:24.430 --> 00:27:28.619
idea of gambling. The worry would be if competitors
00:27:28.619 --> 00:27:31.819
built their own websites and created bigger fancy
00:27:31.819 --> 00:27:34.039
leagues that were competing and then implemented
00:27:34.039 --> 00:27:37.400
betting there, which I can only hope doesn't
00:27:37.400 --> 00:27:40.240
happen. Yeah, I mean, the way it's going to work
00:27:40.240 --> 00:27:43.400
is only admins can create public leagues that
00:27:43.400 --> 00:27:47.359
everyone can join. And then the only thing that
00:27:47.359 --> 00:27:50.519
you can create yourself is just a league that
00:27:50.519 --> 00:27:54.549
you can share with your friends. Yeah, like Emma
00:27:54.549 --> 00:27:57.289
said, we really don't want to promote gambling,
00:27:57.490 --> 00:28:02.910
of course. And so I'm thinking that that's the
00:28:02.910 --> 00:28:08.150
only way that it could kind of turn into a problem
00:28:08.150 --> 00:28:12.190
is if you have a gambling aspect within the public
00:28:12.190 --> 00:28:15.529
leagues that have a broad outreach. But if people
00:28:15.529 --> 00:28:19.250
make a league with their friends and they gamble
00:28:19.250 --> 00:28:22.789
there, within their friend group, it's not necessarily
00:28:22.789 --> 00:28:26.549
a big problem in my mind. I don't exactly know
00:28:26.549 --> 00:28:29.809
how the connection was formed. I guess it's probably
00:28:29.809 --> 00:28:32.890
just that it makes it an easier avenue for you
00:28:32.890 --> 00:28:37.910
to have something to bet on. So you're both very
00:28:37.910 --> 00:28:40.529
anti -gambling and climbing. You don't want that
00:28:40.529 --> 00:28:43.930
to start. Yeah, definitely. There's no way I'd
00:28:43.930 --> 00:28:46.789
want that to start. I don't really... Especially
00:28:46.789 --> 00:28:49.549
that type of public gambling where you... Let's
00:28:49.549 --> 00:28:51.750
say you join a big fancy league and there's like
00:28:51.750 --> 00:28:54.250
a lot of money. If you put in more money yourself,
00:28:54.309 --> 00:28:57.049
for sure, I would be very heavily against that.
00:28:57.490 --> 00:29:01.210
Yeah, I think at one point I really kind of wanted
00:29:01.210 --> 00:29:05.250
to see some more gambling and comp climbing just
00:29:05.250 --> 00:29:07.750
to see what that would do in terms of like engagement
00:29:07.750 --> 00:29:11.650
or like growing the sport or seeing if it would,
00:29:11.670 --> 00:29:15.089
yeah, just like create more hype around the sport
00:29:15.089 --> 00:29:19.160
in general. But. yeah then i guess i learned
00:29:19.160 --> 00:29:22.440
some unsavory information about sports gambling
00:29:22.440 --> 00:29:25.480
and i was like okay maybe not but i'm still a
00:29:25.480 --> 00:29:28.460
little curious like personally what i could say
00:29:28.460 --> 00:29:31.220
like because i guess gambling is kind of a broad
00:29:31.220 --> 00:29:34.420
term um i mean i've thought about i'm i'm sponsored
00:29:34.420 --> 00:29:36.220
by ragni for instance i thought about picking
00:29:36.220 --> 00:29:40.079
out some chalk bags from my stash and like giving
00:29:40.079 --> 00:29:42.339
a few to the top performer in the leagues or
00:29:42.339 --> 00:29:44.680
something like that more or less a fun incentive
00:29:44.680 --> 00:29:47.700
for people and i hope that's not considered gambling
00:29:47.700 --> 00:29:49.720
but i guess it starts to tangent it a little
00:29:49.720 --> 00:29:54.039
bit i just think when you when you well the way
00:29:54.039 --> 00:29:57.180
gambling works in my mind is usually a system
00:29:57.180 --> 00:29:59.579
that sort of forces you to either spend more
00:29:59.579 --> 00:30:02.279
money or like really you know go into it deeper
00:30:02.279 --> 00:30:04.740
and deeper and and that somebody loses a lot
00:30:04.740 --> 00:30:07.059
and somebody wins a lot and that i would like
00:30:07.059 --> 00:30:09.259
to avoid preferably if we have if there was any
00:30:09.259 --> 00:30:11.440
form of thing that could be considered gambling
00:30:11.440 --> 00:30:13.839
it should be a win for everyone involved i guess
00:30:14.509 --> 00:30:17.069
yeah that makes sense because i do agree that
00:30:17.069 --> 00:30:20.089
it i agree that it could create uh some hype
00:30:20.089 --> 00:30:23.029
around it and i mean in a way you're gambling
00:30:23.029 --> 00:30:26.309
your pride if you're on the fantasy website it's
00:30:26.309 --> 00:30:27.789
just like there's no money involved it's not
00:30:27.789 --> 00:30:31.529
the same yeah i guess not but i mean that is
00:30:31.529 --> 00:30:33.750
the the goal is for people to be more engaged
00:30:33.750 --> 00:30:37.970
with the sport and kind of wanna study the competitions
00:30:37.970 --> 00:30:40.170
and the athletes more and like oh who's gonna
00:30:40.170 --> 00:30:42.329
win sort of talk to their friends discuss like
00:30:42.599 --> 00:30:44.460
create more engagement around the sport like
00:30:44.460 --> 00:30:47.380
that is the fundamental goal for the fantasy
00:30:47.380 --> 00:30:51.599
league um but yeah not with gambling i want to
00:30:51.599 --> 00:30:53.740
touch on that also because that's the the season
00:30:53.740 --> 00:30:56.980
that our friends ran this fantasy league it was
00:30:56.980 --> 00:30:59.220
so much more fun to watch the world cups i was
00:30:59.220 --> 00:31:01.720
just at the edge of my seat all the time for
00:31:01.720 --> 00:31:05.200
every comp and that that's kind of what i what
00:31:05.200 --> 00:31:07.640
i want what we want to like bring to the sport
00:31:07.640 --> 00:31:11.000
with this just create a lot more engagement for
00:31:11.000 --> 00:31:13.019
for competition climbing it just makes it much
00:31:13.019 --> 00:31:15.720
more fun to watch and i've also heard other people
00:31:15.720 --> 00:31:19.180
say my i i told my friend about this fantasy
00:31:19.180 --> 00:31:21.039
league and he told his friends that weren't even
00:31:21.039 --> 00:31:22.839
climbers and they said they would be so psyched
00:31:22.839 --> 00:31:25.660
to just to just try this out because and they
00:31:25.660 --> 00:31:27.440
don't even watch competition climbing but this
00:31:27.440 --> 00:31:30.160
would make them interested in watching it and
00:31:30.160 --> 00:31:32.220
that would be that would be really cool Yeah,
00:31:32.220 --> 00:31:34.400
hopefully just putting your pride on the line
00:31:34.400 --> 00:31:38.240
is enough dopamine hit for people. I will say
00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:41.660
though, I did try, what's it called? I tried
00:31:41.660 --> 00:31:43.900
prediction markets because I think sports betting
00:31:43.900 --> 00:31:46.859
isn't legal in California. So I tried a prediction
00:31:46.859 --> 00:31:49.559
market where it's just like, is this football
00:31:49.559 --> 00:31:52.059
team going to win against this other football
00:31:52.059 --> 00:31:53.900
team? And then that's like technically legal
00:31:53.900 --> 00:31:56.819
because you're not placing a bet on a team. You're
00:31:56.819 --> 00:32:00.759
like placing bet on like yes or no. I don't know
00:32:00.759 --> 00:32:03.660
how it works. Interesting. Yeah, but I tried
00:32:03.660 --> 00:32:06.160
it once. And when you put money on the line,
00:32:06.359 --> 00:32:09.140
it's like, it gives you a different rush for
00:32:09.140 --> 00:32:11.420
sure. Yeah, that's for sure the problem. It's
00:32:11.420 --> 00:32:13.119
hard to create that incentive because I think
00:32:13.119 --> 00:32:16.200
in a way it can be kind of a very cool incentive,
00:32:16.359 --> 00:32:19.779
like big number, big dopamine is a good. good
00:32:19.779 --> 00:32:22.339
thing in a way like it it makes it more fun but
00:32:22.339 --> 00:32:24.680
uh it's a tricky balance i guess i mean it is
00:32:24.680 --> 00:32:26.819
it's interesting now now you mention it we actually
00:32:26.819 --> 00:32:29.180
when we did the league we did have money on the
00:32:29.180 --> 00:32:31.880
line we did we did put in like 20 bucks each
00:32:31.880 --> 00:32:34.240
or something but i'd actually i'd actually i
00:32:34.240 --> 00:32:36.400
don't know if that's what made it fun i don't
00:32:36.400 --> 00:32:38.380
think so because i'd i'd actually forgotten about
00:32:38.380 --> 00:32:41.299
it but i i think i think probably people are
00:32:41.299 --> 00:32:44.759
are different there like some people get really
00:32:44.759 --> 00:32:47.839
motivated by by it and some people not i guess
00:32:47.839 --> 00:32:49.990
as long as you're not like promoting it explicitly
00:32:49.990 --> 00:32:52.390
on the website i mean people can choose to do
00:32:52.390 --> 00:32:55.609
what they want with their own leagues um yeah
00:32:55.609 --> 00:32:57.750
i guess like part of the issue that comes with
00:32:57.750 --> 00:33:02.269
it is one thing i heard from i think some comments
00:33:02.269 --> 00:33:04.470
was people were saying that the athletes would
00:33:04.470 --> 00:33:07.809
get a lot of like negative feedback if they performed
00:33:07.809 --> 00:33:11.700
poorly because People were like gambling on them
00:33:11.700 --> 00:33:14.240
and then they performed worse than they expected.
00:33:14.839 --> 00:33:17.039
And then they would get like death threats and
00:33:17.039 --> 00:33:20.480
yeah, crazy stuff happening to them because of
00:33:20.480 --> 00:33:24.940
the high stakes involved. Yeah, that's interesting
00:33:24.940 --> 00:33:26.920
for sure. I wouldn't even have thought of that.
00:33:26.980 --> 00:33:31.039
That's so grim. Yeah, so I thought that was super
00:33:31.039 --> 00:33:33.220
interesting. That kind of helped change my mind
00:33:33.220 --> 00:33:35.759
about why maybe it wouldn't be the best. But,
00:33:35.759 --> 00:33:37.740
you know, do what you want in your personal weeks.
00:33:38.170 --> 00:33:41.289
Okay, so then going into, I guess, what your
00:33:41.289 --> 00:33:45.609
predictions are for the 2026 season. How closely
00:33:45.609 --> 00:33:48.130
are you guys following or like watching the offseason
00:33:48.130 --> 00:33:50.809
training of the athletes? Quite a lot. I've watched
00:33:50.809 --> 00:33:53.450
most of it, I would say. It's like informing
00:33:53.450 --> 00:33:56.710
your predictions for the next season? I definitely
00:33:56.710 --> 00:33:59.210
have some predictions. I have like half my team
00:33:59.210 --> 00:34:02.089
in my head already. Oh, and when does this, when
00:34:02.089 --> 00:34:05.230
does it start? The 2026 season for like, when
00:34:05.230 --> 00:34:08.489
are you opening the climbing leagues? tomorrow
00:34:08.489 --> 00:34:11.750
we're gonna tomorrow yeah yeah yeah because the
00:34:11.750 --> 00:34:15.650
first world cup is on the first of uh yeah first
00:34:15.650 --> 00:34:20.050
of may so quite soon and uh we want to have people
00:34:20.050 --> 00:34:22.429
give people some time to join like the big leagues
00:34:22.429 --> 00:34:25.329
that we're calling them um like the official
00:34:25.329 --> 00:34:27.130
fantasy league where you can compete against
00:34:27.130 --> 00:34:30.309
everyone um so the goal is to launch it all tomorrow
00:34:30.309 --> 00:34:33.880
and and start getting people psyched Well, so
00:34:33.880 --> 00:34:36.159
for reference, this isn't coming out for a week.
00:34:36.260 --> 00:34:38.719
So tomorrow is April 20th. So if you're listening
00:34:38.719 --> 00:34:41.900
to this, it's already, it's open. You can already
00:34:41.900 --> 00:34:46.139
enter. And when does it close? It's supposed
00:34:46.139 --> 00:34:50.980
to close right when it starts. Yeah. You're not
00:34:50.980 --> 00:34:53.639
able to change your team once the event starts.
00:34:53.699 --> 00:34:57.380
That's the idea. Okay. So you guys have to join
00:34:57.380 --> 00:35:01.090
ASAP. Yeah, yeah. The first lead World Cup is
00:35:01.090 --> 00:35:03.309
the week after, and first speed is a week after
00:35:03.309 --> 00:35:06.510
that, I think, roughly at least. So there's some
00:35:06.510 --> 00:35:08.750
time. And then you can, of course, create your
00:35:08.750 --> 00:35:11.829
own leagues with whichever competitions you want
00:35:11.829 --> 00:35:14.989
later in the summer. But hopefully people have
00:35:14.989 --> 00:35:17.010
some time to create their leagues and get involved
00:35:17.010 --> 00:35:20.150
before the first World Cup. Okay, sounds good.
00:35:20.269 --> 00:35:23.550
Everyone get on that. So in terms of your personal
00:35:23.550 --> 00:35:26.989
picks, who do you think are your top picks for
00:35:26.989 --> 00:35:29.679
the season? Please excuse this brief intermission,
00:35:29.760 --> 00:35:31.900
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00:36:06.340 --> 00:36:08.199
Well, I mean, that's a little bit of a tricky
00:36:08.199 --> 00:36:09.860
thing about this is that there's six categories,
00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:12.739
basically. Right, true. Like men, women, bolder
00:36:12.739 --> 00:36:19.760
lead speed. Top one for each of them. Okay. It's
00:36:19.760 --> 00:36:25.400
a very tricky one this season, I feel like. Because
00:36:25.400 --> 00:36:32.239
I think for bouldering, Sorato and Janja would
00:36:32.239 --> 00:36:37.909
always be my top picks. I guess the same for
00:36:37.909 --> 00:36:40.789
Leeds still. But it's getting closer with a lot
00:36:40.789 --> 00:36:42.750
of people. Like Orianne in Bouldering is crushing
00:36:42.750 --> 00:36:45.969
it and she's really leveled up like an absolute
00:36:45.969 --> 00:36:51.349
beast. And yeah, I really don't know what my
00:36:51.349 --> 00:36:53.369
top picks would be there. For speed climbing,
00:36:53.550 --> 00:36:57.409
I have to admit, I'm painfully uninvolved. I
00:36:57.409 --> 00:36:59.989
think speed climbing is a really cool discipline.
00:37:00.070 --> 00:37:02.429
I tried it for the first time. just a few weeks
00:37:02.429 --> 00:37:05.150
ago actually wow really yeah we don't have a
00:37:05.150 --> 00:37:07.510
speed wall in sweden so i never or we maybe do
00:37:07.510 --> 00:37:09.849
but it's not an official one not with a timer
00:37:09.849 --> 00:37:13.110
stuff like that um so i've never gotten around
00:37:13.110 --> 00:37:15.469
to trying like a proper speed wall going for
00:37:15.469 --> 00:37:17.769
it and i was like damn this is really fun i gotta
00:37:17.769 --> 00:37:20.090
get more involved in in the different athletes
00:37:20.090 --> 00:37:23.889
um like basically all i know is that uh is sam
00:37:23.889 --> 00:37:28.389
watson um and i mean he's been killing it for
00:37:28.389 --> 00:37:35.429
years and i believe Is it Miroslav? That's the
00:37:35.429 --> 00:37:38.389
female top one. I believe she's retiring this
00:37:38.389 --> 00:37:41.849
year. I think so. Yeah. So I really don't know
00:37:41.849 --> 00:37:44.710
for speed at all, to be honest. It's my thing.
00:37:45.309 --> 00:37:47.869
Do we know how many comps Janja is going to go
00:37:47.869 --> 00:37:54.110
to? Not quite yet. I got to check the rate. Maybe
00:37:54.110 --> 00:37:56.769
not the best pick then. Maybe not the best, but
00:37:56.769 --> 00:37:58.969
you can change. So I would pick her when she's
00:37:58.969 --> 00:38:01.269
up. I'm not sure if she's doing the first one,
00:38:01.389 --> 00:38:05.010
actually. i think she is she's signed up for
00:38:05.010 --> 00:38:08.050
it okay yeah i could be wrong i think so same
00:38:08.050 --> 00:38:12.429
picks for you felix um i i also have to admit
00:38:12.429 --> 00:38:16.349
i'm not uh very uh invested in in the speed scene
00:38:16.349 --> 00:38:20.730
i don't know is i know sam watson but is he the
00:38:20.730 --> 00:38:22.789
best actually does he have the world record because
00:38:22.789 --> 00:38:25.809
i i feel like i heard something about an indonesian
00:38:25.809 --> 00:38:28.849
guy or something that that was had the record
00:38:28.849 --> 00:38:33.889
now inofficial i think still okay yeah um but
00:38:33.889 --> 00:38:36.690
i'm looking at the rankings and sam did not get
00:38:36.690 --> 00:38:40.769
first in speed overall last year right yeah oh
00:38:40.769 --> 00:38:43.050
yeah i think it's i think it's yeah he had a
00:38:43.050 --> 00:38:46.230
little bit of a yeah off season i think it was
00:38:46.230 --> 00:38:48.090
like one of the competitions was cancelled for
00:38:48.090 --> 00:38:52.050
him and then he had like a false start or something
00:38:52.050 --> 00:38:55.320
at one of them anyways sorry Yeah, I mean, it
00:38:55.320 --> 00:38:58.480
does seem like the speed, you don't have the
00:38:58.480 --> 00:39:00.380
kind of Janja Sarata phenomenon in the speed.
00:39:00.460 --> 00:39:03.280
The top is quite even. But then I guess there's
00:39:03.280 --> 00:39:05.519
always the, there's kind of an element of chance
00:39:05.519 --> 00:39:08.320
in there as well. Yeah. With false starts and
00:39:08.320 --> 00:39:12.920
stuff. But yeah, I don't know much about the
00:39:12.920 --> 00:39:15.739
speed climbers. And Lida, I actually have not
00:39:15.739 --> 00:39:18.260
been following the precincts so much. I'm much
00:39:18.260 --> 00:39:21.900
more just invested in the bouldering. There I
00:39:21.900 --> 00:39:25.320
have... I think that Max Bertrand will do really
00:39:25.320 --> 00:39:28.739
well. I think, I mean, just watching him in the
00:39:28.739 --> 00:39:31.659
French nationals, he was so good. He was so,
00:39:31.679 --> 00:39:35.360
so good. And it just like, I, I just can't, I
00:39:35.360 --> 00:39:38.980
can really see that his, he could have a trajectory
00:39:38.980 --> 00:39:44.119
that's just like, this goes going. Yeah. I mean,
00:39:44.119 --> 00:39:46.280
cause he's really, he's still really young, right?
00:39:46.340 --> 00:39:49.800
It's like 16, 17 or something. And so it's kind
00:39:49.800 --> 00:39:52.519
of at an age where you can make a lot of improvements.
00:39:52.699 --> 00:39:54.920
It happens for a lot of athletes around that
00:39:54.920 --> 00:39:58.659
age. And I think this year he's going to do fantastically.
00:39:59.300 --> 00:40:00.940
Yeah, I don't know if I've mentioned this yet,
00:40:00.960 --> 00:40:03.599
but the video that I'm releasing this with is
00:40:03.599 --> 00:40:06.860
with Max, me and Max training here in ARCO together,
00:40:07.039 --> 00:40:12.179
actually. And he's a beast. I love Max. Yeah,
00:40:12.199 --> 00:40:17.199
he also seems like he has a fantastic mentality
00:40:17.199 --> 00:40:20.889
in comps. He seems so relaxed. It doesn't seem
00:40:20.889 --> 00:40:23.889
like the pressure gets to him at all. I mean,
00:40:23.929 --> 00:40:26.909
it seems that way. I don't know. And at that
00:40:26.909 --> 00:40:31.610
age, that's really cool to see. Besides Max,
00:40:31.909 --> 00:40:35.849
I think Doyun will do really well. I mean, he
00:40:35.849 --> 00:40:38.630
always does well. So he's very consistent. But
00:40:38.630 --> 00:40:41.590
then in the Asian Championships, he killed it.
00:40:41.710 --> 00:40:44.530
He was so good. Wait, I haven't watched it yet.
00:40:44.670 --> 00:40:46.989
Crap. I was supposed to watch that before. No,
00:40:47.110 --> 00:40:49.400
I mean, it's fine. It's fine. Yeah, okay. I'm
00:40:49.400 --> 00:40:52.500
not going to give anything else away from that
00:40:52.500 --> 00:40:54.760
then. But I do have another... Wait, did something
00:40:54.760 --> 00:40:59.579
crazy happen? I would say so. It's okay, just
00:40:59.579 --> 00:41:03.880
say it. Is it okay? I think Imori is going to
00:41:03.880 --> 00:41:07.099
crush it on the women's side. She's improved
00:41:07.099 --> 00:41:10.000
a lot, it seems at least, on the styles that
00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:14.239
she used to struggle on. Just become a beast
00:41:14.239 --> 00:41:16.679
at bouldering. Enough that you would pick her?
00:41:17.119 --> 00:41:19.059
I might pick her for bouldering, yeah. I think
00:41:19.059 --> 00:41:22.480
I would, yeah. She was really good. There was
00:41:22.480 --> 00:41:25.639
this Chinese guy, also at the Asian Championship,
00:41:25.940 --> 00:41:29.820
that I had never heard of. I think it was Jungse
00:41:29.820 --> 00:41:34.059
Hu, probably butchered his name, but he did really
00:41:34.059 --> 00:41:38.920
well. And he's valued at very low credits, so
00:41:38.920 --> 00:41:40.780
I think he will do really well for his value.
00:41:41.539 --> 00:41:44.219
It's an insider pick. I mean, it could be super
00:41:44.219 --> 00:41:47.570
awful, so no one knows. but yeah after your video
00:41:47.570 --> 00:41:50.329
with um max would you put him on your team or
00:41:50.329 --> 00:41:53.489
no oh max is going on my team regardless of how
00:41:53.489 --> 00:41:55.289
he does he's going to be top picked every time
00:41:55.289 --> 00:41:58.090
like he's a good friend of mine i've known him
00:41:58.090 --> 00:42:01.269
since he was like 14 and he burnt me off on a
00:42:01.269 --> 00:42:04.889
boulder in font so we have a i use i i cannot
00:42:04.889 --> 00:42:07.510
cheer for him more than anyone else like he's
00:42:07.510 --> 00:42:11.510
he's the best Okay, I'll keep these in mind.
00:42:12.110 --> 00:42:14.630
What about kind of like comebacks from injury?
00:42:14.789 --> 00:42:18.449
There were some big ones last year. I think ones
00:42:18.449 --> 00:42:21.710
that come to mind are Toby and Natalia. Yeah,
00:42:21.769 --> 00:42:25.789
I think Toby's really interesting. His sort of,
00:42:25.789 --> 00:42:28.769
I guess he was still injured at the time, but
00:42:28.769 --> 00:42:32.670
I mean, his... Was it between Innsbruck and the
00:42:32.670 --> 00:42:36.469
World Cup before that he jumped like 51 placements
00:42:36.469 --> 00:42:39.309
or something? I mean, he's kind of a wild card,
00:42:39.389 --> 00:42:42.670
to be honest. And I think he's figured out a
00:42:42.670 --> 00:42:46.230
lot of injuries. And I mean, he's for sure one
00:42:46.230 --> 00:42:49.750
to look out for in the coming season. I think
00:42:49.750 --> 00:42:51.869
injuries are tricky because you don't know if
00:42:51.869 --> 00:42:53.010
they're going to flare up or if they're going
00:42:53.010 --> 00:42:54.769
to be a problem. So it's like kind of a risk
00:42:54.769 --> 00:42:57.889
to... to invest in the previously injured athletes
00:42:57.889 --> 00:43:00.469
but they always make comebacks and crush it so
00:43:00.469 --> 00:43:04.489
natalia has also done like a crazy comeback she
00:43:04.489 --> 00:43:08.010
was at the bouldering nationals she won in the
00:43:08.010 --> 00:43:10.590
u .s yeah yeah i think so yeah which is just
00:43:10.590 --> 00:43:13.889
like crazy after so many so many injuries um
00:43:13.889 --> 00:43:17.590
so i'm i mean i'm i'm hoping for a comeback and
00:43:17.590 --> 00:43:19.949
i wouldn't be surprised to see one um yeah no
00:43:19.949 --> 00:43:23.449
with toby it's it's hard to know like um i watched
00:43:23.449 --> 00:43:26.730
a lot of his youtube videos uh and he's talked
00:43:26.730 --> 00:43:29.030
a lot openly on social media right about like
00:43:29.030 --> 00:43:31.130
his competition performance and how it dropped
00:43:31.130 --> 00:43:33.889
off a lot after the olympics but i don't really
00:43:33.889 --> 00:43:36.230
like i don't know if it's uh was it a mental
00:43:36.230 --> 00:43:38.949
thing or was it because he had all his injuries
00:43:38.949 --> 00:43:41.469
like he had this like a nerve thing or was it
00:43:41.469 --> 00:43:47.289
with the um with the shoulder right um and so
00:43:47.289 --> 00:43:50.670
i mean if it was just an injury that he was uh
00:43:50.670 --> 00:43:53.489
struggling with maybe he's gonna do amazingly
00:43:53.489 --> 00:43:57.510
this season if that's all healed up. Yeah, I
00:43:57.510 --> 00:43:59.530
feel like it was probably mostly the injury.
00:44:00.010 --> 00:44:02.909
Yeah, and then also with Fantasy League, he'd
00:44:02.909 --> 00:44:05.050
probably be valued pretty low since he didn't
00:44:05.050 --> 00:44:06.929
score so well last season, so he could be a great
00:44:06.929 --> 00:44:10.730
pick. Yeah. I don't know. But what would be your
00:44:10.730 --> 00:44:16.170
picks? Well, I didn't have this insider information,
00:44:16.449 --> 00:44:18.889
so now I kind of feel like I need to steal from
00:44:18.889 --> 00:44:24.340
that. I don't know speed super well. either um
00:44:24.340 --> 00:44:27.340
i have kind of had like the feeling that zach
00:44:27.340 --> 00:44:29.659
hammer was starting to do super well in speed
00:44:29.659 --> 00:44:33.739
um like the other american speed climber um but
00:44:33.739 --> 00:44:35.900
i just looked and he's already number three so
00:44:35.900 --> 00:44:38.739
i don't feel like it's like how much better can
00:44:38.739 --> 00:44:41.460
you get there so i don't know maybe not the best
00:44:41.460 --> 00:44:46.099
maybe not the best pick um for boulder and lead
00:44:46.099 --> 00:44:49.639
i actually also haven't followed lead as closely
00:44:49.639 --> 00:44:53.679
um i've watched a bit more boulder but yeah i
00:44:53.679 --> 00:44:56.519
was thinking that the injured athletes could
00:44:56.519 --> 00:44:59.219
have could be a good pick toby and natalia could
00:44:59.219 --> 00:45:03.420
be good picks um max is also rated pretty low
00:45:03.420 --> 00:45:07.480
so that could be a good pick he seems like he's
00:45:07.480 --> 00:45:10.679
doing pretty well he also i guess had an injury
00:45:10.679 --> 00:45:13.659
with his foot but not during the season yeah
00:45:13.659 --> 00:45:17.360
no he's doing well he's doing well is there anyone
00:45:17.360 --> 00:45:19.820
that you think will experience a downfall this
00:45:19.820 --> 00:45:22.880
season Stay away from. Damn, I don't know if
00:45:22.880 --> 00:45:26.239
I can. Can I say that? Are people going to stab
00:45:26.239 --> 00:45:30.980
me? Well, if you have insider information. A
00:45:30.980 --> 00:45:36.320
downfall. I don't know. I mean, it depends on
00:45:36.320 --> 00:45:39.019
how you mean a downfall. I think people are progressing
00:45:39.019 --> 00:45:41.739
at a pretty astounding rate and learning different
00:45:41.739 --> 00:45:45.099
styles. So I think in a way, Janja could see
00:45:45.099 --> 00:45:48.500
a downfall. Like she might play second a few
00:45:48.500 --> 00:45:51.280
times in comps instead of just dominating every
00:45:51.280 --> 00:45:53.360
single one. I don't think that will be the case,
00:45:53.400 --> 00:45:55.380
but I think it's more likely this year than any
00:45:55.380 --> 00:45:58.820
other year. Just because people are getting more
00:45:58.820 --> 00:46:00.719
and more dominant and they're sort of like...
00:46:01.259 --> 00:46:03.780
it's more of a question if she's going to dominate
00:46:03.780 --> 00:46:06.079
every single comp now than I feel it used to
00:46:06.079 --> 00:46:09.199
be like four years ago, whatever. And I mean,
00:46:09.199 --> 00:46:12.119
Janja has not gotten worse. Like she is an absolute
00:46:12.119 --> 00:46:14.679
beast still, but I do think the rest are sort
00:46:14.679 --> 00:46:18.699
of catching up in a way or at least like, yeah,
00:46:18.760 --> 00:46:20.960
learning new skills that can really challenge
00:46:20.960 --> 00:46:24.840
her. So that would be my hot take in terms of
00:46:24.840 --> 00:46:27.699
downfall. But I don't think we're going to see.
00:46:28.440 --> 00:46:31.159
like i don't know of any particular you know
00:46:31.159 --> 00:46:33.500
somebody who used to place in the top three getting
00:46:33.500 --> 00:46:35.579
to like a 20th placement all the time really
00:46:35.579 --> 00:46:38.320
no i was i had the exact same thought i think
00:46:38.320 --> 00:46:42.019
maybe the the yanya gap has maybe evened out
00:46:42.019 --> 00:46:44.139
a little bit i would think but then at the same
00:46:44.139 --> 00:46:48.400
time she was at the pcl and crushed it there
00:46:48.400 --> 00:46:52.059
did lose but but kind of not necessarily because
00:46:52.059 --> 00:46:56.199
she wasn't strong enough um But I still do think
00:46:56.199 --> 00:47:00.179
that, yeah, she, like, Oriane and Aimori, I think,
00:47:00.179 --> 00:47:03.539
could give her a run for the money. Really? I
00:47:03.539 --> 00:47:08.019
think so. Like, for sure, she could lose now.
00:47:08.679 --> 00:47:11.199
I really got to watch Asian Championships because
00:47:11.199 --> 00:47:13.260
it sounds like something crazy happened there.
00:47:13.599 --> 00:47:17.440
I hate to spoil it, but, like, I don't know because
00:47:17.440 --> 00:47:20.820
Aimori crushed it in the finals. She, like, absolutely
00:47:20.820 --> 00:47:23.239
destroyed everything. But then I think she...
00:47:23.449 --> 00:47:25.809
didn't qualify very high into the final and i
00:47:25.809 --> 00:47:27.929
didn't watch the qualification round or semi
00:47:27.929 --> 00:47:30.829
-final or whatever so maybe she does have some
00:47:30.829 --> 00:47:32.869
weaknesses there i don't know or it was just
00:47:32.869 --> 00:47:34.670
a flash comp and everyone did everything and
00:47:34.670 --> 00:47:36.789
she kind of just like yeah had a fewer attempts
00:47:36.789 --> 00:47:40.309
or something i think the tricky bit about you
00:47:40.309 --> 00:47:43.750
know betting on i is that like if it's within
00:47:43.750 --> 00:47:47.110
her framework as a climber she like can always
00:47:47.110 --> 00:47:50.409
win basically she's freakishly strong and can
00:47:50.409 --> 00:47:53.230
do so so many things in climbing but as soon
00:47:53.230 --> 00:47:55.630
as it's out of her box like she's just completely
00:47:55.630 --> 00:47:58.449
shut down whereas someone like yanya would compensate
00:47:58.449 --> 00:48:01.070
like if it's not yanya's style whatever that
00:48:01.070 --> 00:48:04.170
would be she will still find a way to do it but
00:48:04.170 --> 00:48:07.690
i don't think i would necessarily do that i that
00:48:07.690 --> 00:48:11.170
that's kind of what i thought also before that
00:48:11.170 --> 00:48:14.409
i has i is kind of not as well rounded as a lot
00:48:14.409 --> 00:48:16.230
of the others like she would struggle with certain
00:48:16.230 --> 00:48:19.960
moves But she seems to have gotten a lot better
00:48:19.960 --> 00:48:24.239
at those things now. I think maybe Yanya's weakness
00:48:24.239 --> 00:48:27.960
would be if it turns into kind of a flash round.
00:48:28.820 --> 00:48:32.199
It seems like she isn't as able to flash things.
00:48:32.360 --> 00:48:34.880
Or maybe just if they're easier, she just doesn't
00:48:34.880 --> 00:48:37.000
have as much interest in it. So she kind of just
00:48:37.000 --> 00:48:39.980
goes through it and maybe makes some mistakes.
00:48:41.699 --> 00:48:45.559
I think Oriane has always... kind of been on
00:48:45.559 --> 00:48:50.760
her tail but then whenever there's a long strengthy
00:48:50.760 --> 00:48:54.320
power indurancy route she just kind of gases
00:48:54.320 --> 00:48:57.920
out and then it's not gonna happen unless she
00:48:57.920 --> 00:49:00.980
flashes it yeah but she has such good tactics
00:49:00.980 --> 00:49:05.280
nowadays like she orianne is always giving two
00:49:05.280 --> 00:49:08.000
attempts on the like really powerful long climbs
00:49:08.000 --> 00:49:12.800
and she's like super strategic about it um And
00:49:12.800 --> 00:49:15.940
I think, I mean, setting will always be a big
00:49:15.940 --> 00:49:18.980
part of the comps. I kind of hope they do set
00:49:18.980 --> 00:49:21.039
a lot harder than they have in the previous,
00:49:21.219 --> 00:49:26.099
I guess, years. I often feel like the women's
00:49:26.099 --> 00:49:30.260
sets can be a bit, well, it's kind of like Janja
00:49:30.260 --> 00:49:31.739
always says, she feels that they're too easy
00:49:31.739 --> 00:49:33.699
and they look too easy as well. Like it's so
00:49:33.699 --> 00:49:37.079
often that you see flash rounds or like... I
00:49:37.079 --> 00:49:39.179
don't know. And I don't personally enjoy that
00:49:39.179 --> 00:49:40.780
so much. I think it's way more interesting to
00:49:40.780 --> 00:49:42.880
watch a comp where you have somebody who, like
00:49:42.880 --> 00:49:45.880
one person getting three tops is almost perfect
00:49:45.880 --> 00:49:48.239
for me. And one boulder just being almost impossible.
00:49:48.480 --> 00:49:50.440
That's fine. As long as you can see some progression
00:49:50.440 --> 00:49:52.679
or see somebody like make a zone or show that
00:49:52.679 --> 00:49:55.400
it's maybe possible. Like that's for me when
00:49:55.400 --> 00:49:57.980
I enjoy them the most. But I always think of
00:49:57.980 --> 00:49:59.980
it as like if two climbers flashes a boulder,
00:50:00.119 --> 00:50:03.639
that boulder is almost useless for the comp in
00:50:03.639 --> 00:50:06.199
a way. because you're just like you well the
00:50:06.199 --> 00:50:08.860
thing is like you're getting the same it's it's
00:50:08.860 --> 00:50:11.860
way more um like prominent in lead climbing but
00:50:11.860 --> 00:50:13.800
you're basically getting the same score but you're
00:50:13.800 --> 00:50:16.599
not putting out the same performance necessarily
00:50:16.599 --> 00:50:19.019
like obviously that's the only way we can value
00:50:19.019 --> 00:50:23.420
it in in the sport but i just don't i just don't
00:50:23.420 --> 00:50:25.780
see that boulder being equally as valuable as
00:50:25.780 --> 00:50:27.659
a boulder that's caused some level of separation
00:50:27.659 --> 00:50:32.500
um so yeah i mean and it for the women it's not
00:50:32.500 --> 00:50:34.900
that uncommon that you see several flashes on
00:50:34.900 --> 00:50:37.400
a boulder and so it's like well where's the separation
00:50:37.400 --> 00:50:39.559
like could just two attempts would have been
00:50:39.559 --> 00:50:41.619
good to have or something and and i would like
00:50:41.619 --> 00:50:44.099
to see more of that uh because then i think we
00:50:44.099 --> 00:50:47.139
can get like a more clear answer to how dominant
00:50:47.139 --> 00:50:50.199
janja is for instance um you know if people are
00:50:50.199 --> 00:50:52.539
on their tail because everybody can mess up a
00:50:52.539 --> 00:50:54.599
flash like there's not a climber in the world
00:50:54.599 --> 00:50:58.260
who you know doesn't stumble from time to time
00:50:58.809 --> 00:51:00.610
And it gives very little information to whether
00:51:00.610 --> 00:51:02.869
or not they are like stronger or not or better
00:51:02.869 --> 00:51:05.469
or not. Because it's really like after five to
00:51:05.469 --> 00:51:07.210
10 attempts on a boulder that you get to see
00:51:07.210 --> 00:51:09.750
the full picture or let's say three to 10 attempts
00:51:09.750 --> 00:51:11.630
on a boulder. You get to see the full picture
00:51:11.630 --> 00:51:13.730
of how somebody can perform on that. And the
00:51:13.730 --> 00:51:16.489
flash go is more like, you know, it's obviously
00:51:16.489 --> 00:51:18.929
great to perform on a flash, but I don't think
00:51:18.929 --> 00:51:21.010
it's as interesting as the second, third or fourth
00:51:21.010 --> 00:51:23.210
attempt. Yeah, I think that's why she asked for
00:51:23.210 --> 00:51:26.000
harder rounds because. I think still at this
00:51:26.000 --> 00:51:29.719
moment, if it was a harder round, I think she
00:51:29.719 --> 00:51:34.079
would still be pulling away. I remember, I forget
00:51:34.079 --> 00:51:36.679
which exact hump it was, but there was one towards
00:51:36.679 --> 00:51:40.119
the end of the season last year. I think Oriane
00:51:40.119 --> 00:51:43.699
was kind of set to win if she had completed the
00:51:43.699 --> 00:51:46.280
boulder, if she had topped the boulder. And then,
00:51:46.340 --> 00:51:49.139
yeah, it was like, yeah, she powered out in the
00:51:49.139 --> 00:51:52.030
end. Yeah, I think it was the championships where
00:51:52.030 --> 00:51:56.449
she and Meshti placed second, both. Yeah, I know
00:51:56.449 --> 00:51:59.989
what you mean. I mean, that definitely does happen.
00:52:00.090 --> 00:52:03.150
But I think Oriana's leveled up even more this
00:52:03.150 --> 00:52:05.969
year. I think, like, she's a high bet for me.
00:52:06.010 --> 00:52:08.150
I think she's going to crush it. And she's, like,
00:52:08.170 --> 00:52:11.030
she has the mentality. She's psyched. Yeah, it'll
00:52:11.030 --> 00:52:13.349
be fun. Felix, any other thoughts there? I guess
00:52:13.349 --> 00:52:15.130
it is kind of a hard question because you don't
00:52:15.130 --> 00:52:18.010
want to prey on anyone's downfall. And you never
00:52:18.010 --> 00:52:20.179
know who's going to get injured. Yeah, exactly.
00:52:20.440 --> 00:52:24.179
No, I don't really like, I also can't think of
00:52:24.179 --> 00:52:26.380
any of the top athletes that have leveled down.
00:52:26.460 --> 00:52:28.139
It feels like if anything, everyone's just kind
00:52:28.139 --> 00:52:30.800
of gotten better. So I don't know, since I haven't
00:52:30.800 --> 00:52:32.519
watched Asian championships yet. I don't know.
00:52:32.760 --> 00:52:36.719
I was thinking maybe for downfall. I wonder if
00:52:36.719 --> 00:52:39.719
Tomo will have a harder time this year. He's
00:52:39.719 --> 00:52:43.019
just got a lot going on, you know, with the kid
00:52:43.019 --> 00:52:44.900
and everything. I feel like that's not easy.
00:52:47.579 --> 00:52:49.699
Because it has to come at some point, right?
00:52:49.780 --> 00:52:51.940
Like he's been at the top, like been so good
00:52:51.940 --> 00:52:54.179
for so long. At some point, it has to trend downwards.
00:52:54.820 --> 00:52:59.960
I actually just spent a week with Katsu and Tsukuru,
00:53:00.099 --> 00:53:03.719
who set at B -Pump. And I don't think Timo is
00:53:03.719 --> 00:53:06.199
going to see a downfall this year. But I don't
00:53:06.199 --> 00:53:07.780
know. I don't know. It's just the way they were
00:53:07.780 --> 00:53:10.000
talking about it. I'm like, okay, he's probably
00:53:10.000 --> 00:53:12.900
going to do all right. It sounds like he's still
00:53:12.900 --> 00:53:15.739
very much at the cutting edge of the dynamic
00:53:15.739 --> 00:53:19.400
stuff. So, and it's such a huge part of competitions
00:53:19.400 --> 00:53:22.239
to really have that dialed. And he's so far advanced
00:53:22.239 --> 00:53:24.840
that it's hard for people to catch up with that
00:53:24.840 --> 00:53:27.579
style. So I feel like it would be if they stopped
00:53:27.579 --> 00:53:29.420
setting dynamic stuff, maybe tomorrow I could
00:53:29.420 --> 00:53:31.559
see a downfall, but I don't really see that happening.
00:53:31.800 --> 00:53:33.920
Well, people say that they're like moving towards
00:53:33.920 --> 00:53:37.460
more old school, hard pulling, tiny holds or
00:53:37.460 --> 00:53:40.179
whatever. I don't know how true that'll be. I
00:53:40.179 --> 00:53:42.989
think that'll never happen. I think there's a
00:53:42.989 --> 00:53:46.510
good example of it. They had a straightforward
00:53:46.510 --> 00:53:49.809
pulling downward boulder. I think it was in Salt
00:53:49.809 --> 00:53:52.570
Lake City 2024 or something that everyone was
00:53:52.570 --> 00:53:54.630
sort of hyping as like, oh, it's a power boulder.
00:53:54.710 --> 00:53:56.849
Finally, we get something like this again. And
00:53:56.849 --> 00:54:00.789
I looked at it, and I'm pretty sure most at the
00:54:00.789 --> 00:54:03.070
top level wouldn't consider that a straightforward
00:54:03.070 --> 00:54:05.849
pulling boulder. It was basically campusing on
00:54:05.849 --> 00:54:08.750
jugs. in a tricky fashion that looks like straightforward
00:54:08.750 --> 00:54:11.090
pulling. But the way straightforward pulling
00:54:11.090 --> 00:54:14.489
really sort of challenges you kind of requires
00:54:14.489 --> 00:54:17.070
this board style climbing where if you cut feet,
00:54:17.210 --> 00:54:18.929
you're screwed because otherwise it's just going
00:54:18.929 --> 00:54:22.949
to be like moving dynamically on jugs. So I think
00:54:22.949 --> 00:54:24.710
there's still a little bit off from getting that
00:54:24.710 --> 00:54:27.269
straightforward pulling back in action. I don't
00:54:27.269 --> 00:54:29.929
think it's on the radar quite yet. And so you
00:54:29.929 --> 00:54:32.170
think like the tricky looks like straightforward
00:54:32.170 --> 00:54:34.309
bouldering, but isn't, he would still crush.
00:54:34.909 --> 00:54:39.170
yeah yeah that's all just like yeah i i i don't
00:54:39.170 --> 00:54:41.349
think we've seen that in a quite some time i
00:54:41.349 --> 00:54:43.210
think the last like straightforward power boulder
00:54:43.210 --> 00:54:48.590
i saw was a semi -final in brixen 2023 uh where
00:54:48.590 --> 00:54:51.670
yannick's like sweeped around and aside from
00:54:51.670 --> 00:54:54.130
that there's almost nothing that i would categorize
00:54:54.130 --> 00:54:57.030
as that level like obviously there's less more
00:54:57.030 --> 00:54:59.969
or less of that style but where it's kind of
00:54:59.969 --> 00:55:01.730
like the biggest requirements i don't think there
00:55:01.730 --> 00:55:03.510
was a single bowler last season that i thought
00:55:03.510 --> 00:55:05.750
was like okay this is really challenging their
00:55:05.750 --> 00:55:10.030
old school style because the thing is when it's
00:55:10.030 --> 00:55:12.130
not that you can always compensate with dynamic
00:55:12.130 --> 00:55:14.329
skill and sort of momentum and that kind of stuff
00:55:14.329 --> 00:55:15.869
like if the hold is good enough for the athletes
00:55:15.869 --> 00:55:18.690
to hold on then they're just going to move dynamically
00:55:18.690 --> 00:55:22.829
and like yeah figure it out in modern ways do
00:55:22.829 --> 00:55:26.500
you think it would be interesting to watch like
00:55:26.500 --> 00:55:29.760
straightforward hard pulling for not like people
00:55:29.760 --> 00:55:32.840
who aren't like super hard climbers oh i mean
00:55:32.840 --> 00:55:34.920
i have a lot of hot takes about that kind of
00:55:34.920 --> 00:55:37.119
thing because i'm not a huge fan of how they
00:55:37.119 --> 00:55:40.139
film climbing and how they sort of really look
00:55:40.139 --> 00:55:44.199
into the perspective for the audience i think
00:55:44.199 --> 00:55:46.739
straightforward pulling always comes down to
00:55:46.739 --> 00:55:50.400
communicating like why it's hard uh and you sort
00:55:50.400 --> 00:55:54.010
of have to show the separation with the athletes
00:55:54.010 --> 00:55:56.550
when you do that which is really really difficult
00:55:56.550 --> 00:55:59.530
um i think it can look incredibly interesting
00:55:59.530 --> 00:56:02.210
for a non -climber if you can visually understand
00:56:02.210 --> 00:56:05.329
like why the holds are as bad as they are and
00:56:05.329 --> 00:56:08.050
it's usually not enough to just like have a close
00:56:08.050 --> 00:56:11.010
-up because close -up of hand of a hand on a
00:56:11.010 --> 00:56:13.389
hold looks the same on like a 20 millimeter edge
00:56:13.389 --> 00:56:16.250
as a six millimeter edge almost unless it's like
00:56:16.250 --> 00:56:19.889
the time when the hand lands on the like when
00:56:19.889 --> 00:56:21.750
the hand lands on the hole then you can see a
00:56:21.750 --> 00:56:23.630
little bit of a difference but it's really hard
00:56:23.630 --> 00:56:27.070
to show that difference visually um and i think
00:56:27.070 --> 00:56:29.929
they would need to learn quite a lot about that
00:56:29.929 --> 00:56:32.090
the the filming crew i'm not gonna say i could
00:56:32.090 --> 00:56:35.030
do it but i just i i there's i'm sure a lot of
00:56:35.030 --> 00:56:37.230
cinematographers that could help them out with
00:56:37.230 --> 00:56:39.630
it that's all i'm saying to really showcase that
00:56:39.630 --> 00:56:44.469
style in a better way well how would you do it
00:56:44.469 --> 00:56:49.429
um In a competition. Do you do it? Do you feel
00:56:49.429 --> 00:56:51.750
like you do it in your videos? Not so much anymore
00:56:51.750 --> 00:56:53.949
because it takes a lot of quite a lot of work
00:56:53.949 --> 00:56:56.829
to do it properly. And for me, it's also very
00:56:56.829 --> 00:56:58.409
different because it's way easier to explain
00:56:58.409 --> 00:57:00.630
things in a word that I'm doing. Like, oh, I'm
00:57:00.630 --> 00:57:02.550
going to grab this edge. It's the size of a credit
00:57:02.550 --> 00:57:04.590
card. Like that's kind of enough to understand
00:57:04.590 --> 00:57:09.750
what it is. I would assume graphics could help
00:57:09.750 --> 00:57:14.789
a lot. Sort of potentially showing. the hold
00:57:14.789 --> 00:57:16.969
in relative terms to what people have in their
00:57:16.969 --> 00:57:18.829
in their household i don't know stuff like that
00:57:18.829 --> 00:57:21.710
could be enough um it is a tricky question though
00:57:21.710 --> 00:57:27.690
um because you you do like when you show if you
00:57:27.690 --> 00:57:29.170
show something like that you're also taken away
00:57:29.170 --> 00:57:30.550
from something else like they have to make a
00:57:30.550 --> 00:57:33.670
decision with what they're showing um and sometimes
00:57:33.670 --> 00:57:37.090
i feel like that decision isn't quite right the
00:57:37.090 --> 00:57:39.730
competitions you know they're they're often showing
00:57:39.730 --> 00:57:43.010
like somebody's foot on a hold when somebody
00:57:43.010 --> 00:57:44.710
else is topping a boulder in the semifinals.
00:57:44.929 --> 00:57:47.650
So I do think they have some other work to focus
00:57:47.650 --> 00:57:51.170
on first, rather than how to showcase a straightforward
00:57:51.170 --> 00:57:53.750
pulling boulder. But I do think it could be interesting
00:57:53.750 --> 00:57:57.210
if done like perfect. But I definitely see that
00:57:57.210 --> 00:57:59.449
it's trickier than like a massive five meter
00:57:59.449 --> 00:58:01.409
paddle dino. Like that looks pretty spectacular
00:58:01.409 --> 00:58:04.510
the second you see it. And I don't remember like
00:58:04.510 --> 00:58:09.329
this Salt Lake. boulder 2024 but i feel like
00:58:09.329 --> 00:58:11.489
it's the worst if it's it looks straightforward
00:58:11.489 --> 00:58:14.030
and it looks like it's jugs but it just happens
00:58:14.030 --> 00:58:16.150
to be hard in some way that seems like the worst
00:58:16.150 --> 00:58:20.469
option i don't know if i 100 agree that the reason
00:58:20.469 --> 00:58:22.869
it's not interesting to show hard pulling is
00:58:22.869 --> 00:58:25.530
because it kind of doesn't look spectacular it
00:58:25.530 --> 00:58:27.829
looks easy because i think that's kind of just
00:58:27.829 --> 00:58:30.750
uh that's kind of like i don't know why but like
00:58:30.750 --> 00:58:33.230
fundamentally it just kind of looks always looks
00:58:33.230 --> 00:58:36.400
easier than it is also with this like coordination
00:58:36.400 --> 00:58:40.519
dynos. Just like if I see a video of coordination
00:58:40.519 --> 00:58:43.960
dyno in the gym at home, it can look easy and
00:58:43.960 --> 00:58:46.719
then I go and try it and it's super hard. And
00:58:46.719 --> 00:58:49.360
it goes just kind of for all climbing, I think.
00:58:49.880 --> 00:58:52.679
But I think in general with that style, the biggest
00:58:52.679 --> 00:58:56.460
problem will always be for the setters. I mean,
00:58:56.480 --> 00:59:00.000
setting hard, crimpy or pinchy or slopey boulders
00:59:00.000 --> 00:59:01.880
in that way, that's just straightforward pulling.
00:59:02.650 --> 00:59:05.010
You have to sort of take perfectly into account
00:59:05.010 --> 00:59:07.550
the conditions of that specific day if you want
00:59:07.550 --> 00:59:09.349
to make it hard enough to create good separation.
00:59:10.610 --> 00:59:13.269
I think they are definitely fully capable to
00:59:13.269 --> 00:59:15.530
do that, like to create really, really cool separation
00:59:15.530 --> 00:59:18.349
between the athletes by setting like harder crimp
00:59:18.349 --> 00:59:20.849
lines. But there is a high chance that if they
00:59:20.849 --> 00:59:23.150
do push the limit a little bit too much and then
00:59:23.150 --> 00:59:24.650
it's just a little bit too warm on the day of
00:59:24.650 --> 00:59:26.750
the comp, then nobody gets like a single move
00:59:26.750 --> 00:59:30.530
on it. I do think there is a solution. I think
00:59:30.530 --> 00:59:32.909
they could set boulders to be gradually harder
00:59:32.909 --> 00:59:36.769
than they do nowadays. For me, that was sort
00:59:36.769 --> 00:59:38.909
of a tricky thing about the PCL, for instance,
00:59:39.070 --> 00:59:41.070
where I thought that it looked like they set
00:59:41.070 --> 00:59:42.929
moves that were very even and they looked like
00:59:42.929 --> 00:59:45.130
really cool boulders. But I think the format
00:59:45.130 --> 00:59:47.909
would have done better if each move was slightly
00:59:47.909 --> 00:59:50.329
harder than the previous one. And I do believe
00:59:50.329 --> 00:59:54.630
the same goes for World Cups. often that it's
00:59:54.630 --> 00:59:56.550
fine if the first couple of moves are done by
00:59:56.550 --> 00:59:58.550
a lot of people, but then it's just like the
00:59:58.550 --> 01:00:00.849
last three moves are just impossible aside from
01:00:00.849 --> 01:00:04.349
for a few specific top end athletes at that style.
01:00:04.530 --> 01:00:06.670
I think that would be really cool to see personally.
01:00:07.050 --> 01:00:09.349
Going back real quick to the very initial question
01:00:09.349 --> 01:00:12.010
of maybe if Tomoa will have a downfall. What
01:00:12.010 --> 01:00:16.230
about Tomoa versus Meiji? I talked to somebody
01:00:16.230 --> 01:00:18.289
about that just a few hours ago. Yeah, I talked
01:00:18.289 --> 01:00:22.659
to Stefano about that. Because basically, the
01:00:22.659 --> 01:00:25.960
thing is, we discussed, have they ever been on
01:00:25.960 --> 01:00:27.800
the podium at the same time together, Tomoa and
01:00:27.800 --> 01:00:31.599
Meiji? And I'm not sure that they have. And the
01:00:31.599 --> 01:00:34.119
reason is probably because if a round suits Meiji,
01:00:34.260 --> 01:00:36.400
it's not going to suit Tomoa. Because they are
01:00:36.400 --> 01:00:38.820
like a 20 centimeter difference in height and
01:00:38.820 --> 01:00:44.320
reach and style. So with them, I think as a versus,
01:00:44.360 --> 01:00:46.480
for sure, it's like just depending on the round.
01:00:46.809 --> 01:00:48.389
Like just depending on the style. Because I think
01:00:48.389 --> 01:00:51.070
they're like incredibly good at very separate
01:00:51.070 --> 01:00:53.849
things. Yeah, that's interesting. Do you guys
01:00:53.849 --> 01:00:56.130
feel like you have very different climbing abilities?
01:00:56.429 --> 01:00:58.949
I think we have basically the same style, right?
01:00:59.030 --> 01:01:02.869
Yeah, very similar, I would say. Yeah, I think
01:01:02.869 --> 01:01:05.750
it's the height just that makes such a huge difference
01:01:05.750 --> 01:01:08.769
for them being like that far apart. But style
01:01:08.769 --> 01:01:10.530
-wise, they're quite similar, wouldn't you say?
01:01:10.630 --> 01:01:14.159
Or I guess maybe to more wise is... I guess,
01:01:14.179 --> 01:01:15.860
known for being really good at the coordination
01:01:15.860 --> 01:01:18.760
stuff. And Meiji, I don't know if he's necessarily
01:01:18.760 --> 01:01:22.639
known for that, but he's still kind of like,
01:01:22.639 --> 01:01:25.300
most of the Japanese I would say are pretty well
01:01:25.300 --> 01:01:28.460
-rounded and he's also quite well -rounded. Yeah,
01:01:28.500 --> 01:01:31.559
he doesn't have anything that stands out about
01:01:31.559 --> 01:01:36.619
him, but he's just kind of like, good. He's here
01:01:36.619 --> 01:01:40.900
today. Yeah, I definitely agree. Yeah. I think
01:01:40.900 --> 01:01:42.920
he's probably built out from a lot of comps.
01:01:42.940 --> 01:01:47.840
That is sort of an issue, I feel, with the top
01:01:47.840 --> 01:01:50.920
-end performers of the sport, is that because
01:01:50.920 --> 01:01:54.099
the setting matters so, so much, there's a huge...
01:01:54.099 --> 01:01:56.460
If we're talking about the guys now, at least,
01:01:56.579 --> 01:02:00.380
the height will be around 170, 175 for a lot
01:02:00.380 --> 01:02:02.340
of the top -end athletes. The setting's also
01:02:02.340 --> 01:02:05.360
more dense at that height. It's sort of adapted
01:02:05.360 --> 01:02:07.139
for that, and you'll have outliers performing
01:02:07.139 --> 01:02:10.400
here and there. But I do think, I mean, Meiji
01:02:10.400 --> 01:02:13.340
is like very, very tall. He's going to be built
01:02:13.340 --> 01:02:17.320
out of so many boxes and so many moves. I think
01:02:17.320 --> 01:02:19.500
when you adapt a move to work for the shorter
01:02:19.500 --> 01:02:22.239
climbers, you usually either make it breakable
01:02:22.239 --> 01:02:24.320
for the taller climbers or you make it hard,
01:02:24.380 --> 01:02:26.059
like way harder for the taller climbers because
01:02:26.059 --> 01:02:28.300
you have so many like bigger leverages to work
01:02:28.300 --> 01:02:32.920
with. So yeah, it's always tricky. I wonder how
01:02:32.920 --> 01:02:35.639
he got so much taller than Tomoe. I've never
01:02:35.639 --> 01:02:38.539
seen such a difference between like... siblings
01:02:38.539 --> 01:02:41.820
of the same gender super strange okay cool so
01:02:41.820 --> 01:02:44.539
then let's get into some of the audience questions
01:02:44.539 --> 01:02:47.599
um the first one i think most related to this
01:02:47.599 --> 01:02:50.940
is from xander .com what style of comp climbing
01:02:50.940 --> 01:02:53.860
would change the results the most this is okay
01:02:53.860 --> 01:02:56.460
so this is going to be a bit of a i have a i
01:02:56.460 --> 01:03:00.389
i don't think a climbing style is like Aside
01:03:00.389 --> 01:03:02.329
from just saying pure straightforward pulling
01:03:02.329 --> 01:03:04.250
would change the results tremendously, I actually
01:03:04.250 --> 01:03:07.309
think the hold usage would change the results
01:03:07.309 --> 01:03:10.630
the most. I think using more wooden holds or
01:03:10.630 --> 01:03:15.130
the no -texture transparent holds, that would
01:03:15.130 --> 01:03:18.530
change the results tremendously. That's my belief.
01:03:18.909 --> 01:03:22.570
That's one of the big separators is skin. And
01:03:22.570 --> 01:03:25.010
that you can see a big change in athletes when
01:03:25.010 --> 01:03:27.489
they have good skin for the specific hold selection.
01:03:28.199 --> 01:03:29.900
You can really see that sort of shine through,
01:03:30.000 --> 01:03:32.179
which if you switch out the holds a lot, you'll
01:03:32.179 --> 01:03:34.000
see different performances, especially if people
01:03:34.000 --> 01:03:35.980
aren't that used to it, which wooden holds would
01:03:35.980 --> 01:03:39.039
be the case with. Yeah. Do they ever use like
01:03:39.039 --> 01:03:43.820
those really like crappy textureless old boulder
01:03:43.820 --> 01:03:47.880
holds during the World Cups? Not yet. No, not
01:03:47.880 --> 01:03:50.679
quite. Are you talking about the kind of like
01:03:50.679 --> 01:03:54.230
see -through glass ones? Like, not no -techs,
01:03:54.230 --> 01:03:56.969
but just, like, old crappy holds that have been
01:03:56.969 --> 01:03:59.449
in use for so long that they are, like, worse
01:03:59.449 --> 01:04:01.730
than dual -techs, basically. I guess they're
01:04:01.730 --> 01:04:03.849
just not fun to look at. They're not. I hate
01:04:03.849 --> 01:04:07.070
them. That could change some things. I think,
01:04:07.070 --> 01:04:10.909
honestly, the top competition climbers are so
01:04:10.909 --> 01:04:12.909
good at everything. They're so well -rounded.
01:04:12.949 --> 01:04:15.590
It's kind of hard to come up with a style that
01:04:15.590 --> 01:04:17.889
would separate them. I think Emil is right with
01:04:17.889 --> 01:04:20.150
the, like, climbing on no -techs is such a weird
01:04:20.150 --> 01:04:23.070
thing where, like, I think some people are just
01:04:23.070 --> 01:04:25.650
naturally better at it. They just have the skin
01:04:25.650 --> 01:04:28.510
for it. I mean, obviously you could come up with
01:04:28.510 --> 01:04:30.429
some kind of non -serious answers. Like if they
01:04:30.429 --> 01:04:32.650
added a bunch of crack climbing, I think some
01:04:32.650 --> 01:04:36.050
people would struggle a lot. But outside of that,
01:04:36.150 --> 01:04:38.889
I think it's kind of like, they're all so well
01:04:38.889 --> 01:04:41.750
-rounded. What if it was just like all slab climbing?
01:04:42.230 --> 01:04:46.500
I don't know. I think it's... They would change
01:04:46.500 --> 01:04:49.380
things naturally. You'd see some people, like
01:04:49.380 --> 01:04:53.360
Yannick, he would not have a good time. He doesn't
01:04:53.360 --> 01:05:00.320
seem to have a good time anyway. But I think...
01:05:00.320 --> 01:05:03.519
I don't know about slabs, because in general,
01:05:03.739 --> 01:05:06.579
everyone's so good at slabs that it feels almost
01:05:06.579 --> 01:05:09.380
like... It's definitely not a coin toss, but
01:05:09.380 --> 01:05:11.380
it's like you'll have some people performing
01:05:11.380 --> 01:05:13.039
on a slab at one comp and then somebody else
01:05:13.039 --> 01:05:14.679
performing on the next one. And it doesn't feel
01:05:14.679 --> 01:05:17.539
like... You know, there's a huge pile of athletes
01:05:17.539 --> 01:05:19.840
who are just like crazy slab climbers that don't
01:05:19.840 --> 01:05:21.579
perform on the other styles as well. I would
01:05:21.579 --> 01:05:25.440
say I think slab is already really high represented
01:05:25.440 --> 01:05:28.380
in the comps. One style that is not represented
01:05:28.380 --> 01:05:31.880
is just like this kind of long endurance climbs
01:05:31.880 --> 01:05:36.139
that you mainly see outdoors. Like I'm talking
01:05:36.139 --> 01:05:40.010
like a 15 move or 20 move boulder. it's just
01:05:40.010 --> 01:05:42.250
not it just doesn't work in a comp so that's
01:05:42.250 --> 01:05:44.070
obviously like there are reasons why not to set
01:05:44.070 --> 01:05:45.949
it but that i think would separate cause a lot
01:05:45.949 --> 01:05:47.949
of separation like lead climbers would do better
01:05:47.949 --> 01:05:50.849
just why do you think that wouldn't work in competitions
01:05:50.849 --> 01:05:55.929
well it's uh if you have a 20 20 move boulder
01:05:55.929 --> 01:05:58.610
you kind of just have one attempt like you're
01:05:58.610 --> 01:06:02.670
just gonna do one attempt and then rest for two
01:06:02.670 --> 01:06:06.010
minutes and give one attempt that's not gonna
01:06:06.010 --> 01:06:08.679
lead anywhere really that's the same for seven
01:06:08.679 --> 01:06:11.300
move power boulders though like generally speaking
01:06:11.300 --> 01:06:13.179
you shouldn't give more than two attempts like
01:06:13.179 --> 01:06:15.719
most coaches i believe would say that that if
01:06:15.719 --> 01:06:18.380
you're in a round uh and unless you have like
01:06:18.380 --> 01:06:21.739
some ungodly and like recovery rates and you're
01:06:21.739 --> 01:06:24.539
very good at you know working with that then
01:06:24.539 --> 01:06:26.519
most climbers shouldn't be giving more than two
01:06:26.519 --> 01:06:29.400
attempts on the more powerful climbs yeah but
01:06:29.400 --> 01:06:31.039
two attempts is fine it creates a lot of suspense
01:06:31.039 --> 01:06:34.539
for the second attempt uh you see someone getting
01:06:34.539 --> 01:06:36.619
like i don't know pretty close to the top and
01:06:36.619 --> 01:06:38.000
they rest for two minutes and they're like okay
01:06:38.000 --> 01:06:40.480
now it's it like it really matters and they at
01:06:40.480 --> 01:06:43.599
least have a chance but if if you do like if
01:06:43.599 --> 01:06:45.539
you're on the wall for like two minutes on a
01:06:45.539 --> 01:06:48.260
pure endurance route and you come down like it's
01:06:48.260 --> 01:06:51.719
gonna be over there is no way and secondly i
01:06:51.719 --> 01:06:53.920
think i think it's just like it's kind of hard
01:06:53.920 --> 01:06:57.079
maybe it is possible but it feels like with the
01:06:57.079 --> 01:06:59.559
with the walls that you have it's kind of hard
01:06:59.559 --> 01:07:01.579
to do like you would have to set like a roof
01:07:02.159 --> 01:07:05.960
Or something. And it's hard to film. Yeah wall
01:07:05.960 --> 01:07:07.800
space would be hard. They would have to like
01:07:07.800 --> 01:07:10.760
snake it around. And then it's like a little
01:07:10.760 --> 01:07:12.760
convoluted maybe. True. But it would be interesting
01:07:12.760 --> 01:07:15.360
to see I think. I love that style. Because you
01:07:15.360 --> 01:07:17.840
get such a good fight. Get some mics on that.
01:07:18.059 --> 01:07:20.659
That would be glorious. But then isn't that too
01:07:20.659 --> 01:07:23.739
much like lead? no i think i mean because it
01:07:23.739 --> 01:07:25.440
depends on how long we're talking about i do
01:07:25.440 --> 01:07:27.000
think if the climbers ended up being on the world
01:07:27.000 --> 01:07:29.380
for two minutes on a power endurance climb then
01:07:29.380 --> 01:07:31.739
you have a lot of good rests on that power climb
01:07:31.739 --> 01:07:33.880
and maybe that's not the style i would want i
01:07:33.880 --> 01:07:35.139
would say like you should be on the wall for
01:07:35.139 --> 01:07:37.480
maybe a minute for a power climb in like a steep
01:07:37.480 --> 01:07:41.260
terrain like that um generally when people are
01:07:41.260 --> 01:07:42.800
on the wall for that long it's like you find
01:07:42.800 --> 01:07:45.239
a no hands rest in a corner or something or know
01:07:45.239 --> 01:07:47.659
you're resting on a jug i feel like in if we're
01:07:47.659 --> 01:07:49.460
talking about long power endurance climbs it
01:07:49.460 --> 01:07:51.119
shouldn't be that you're able to rest in the
01:07:51.119 --> 01:07:53.340
positions maybe you can chalk up at one spot
01:07:53.340 --> 01:07:56.880
but then like keep going would be my idea um
01:07:56.880 --> 01:07:59.820
and i think that would be super interesting to
01:07:59.820 --> 01:08:02.880
see i don't i don't know especially in like a
01:08:02.880 --> 01:08:05.619
semi -final where it doesn't really matter if
01:08:05.619 --> 01:08:08.079
you're just on the mats like looking at the boulder
01:08:08.079 --> 01:08:10.760
and then giving one attempt could be a really
01:08:10.760 --> 01:08:13.239
great addition something that that kind of challenges
01:08:13.239 --> 01:08:15.400
the something that challenges the pump to some
01:08:15.400 --> 01:08:18.659
degree because even the longer bowlers right
01:08:18.659 --> 01:08:20.420
now feels like it's it's not going to be that
01:08:20.420 --> 01:08:22.659
you you get to the top and you're pumped so much
01:08:22.659 --> 01:08:24.579
i don't know maybe i'm wrong maybe they do get
01:08:24.579 --> 01:08:26.920
pumped but it feels like it's more it's it's
01:08:26.920 --> 01:08:30.319
very pure power that like uh yeah more like a
01:08:30.319 --> 01:08:32.760
pure power endurance test usually but i agree
01:08:32.760 --> 01:08:34.439
like it shouldn't be too long it shouldn't be
01:08:34.439 --> 01:08:36.760
too adjacent to lead climbing because then i
01:08:36.760 --> 01:08:38.850
mean you already have lead climbing so so i guess
01:08:38.850 --> 01:08:41.229
what's the difference between what you're describing
01:08:41.229 --> 01:08:44.810
and what the like existing power boulders are
01:08:44.810 --> 01:08:48.470
well for one big thing i would say is the the
01:08:48.470 --> 01:08:51.409
angle change like for this for a long power endurance
01:08:51.409 --> 01:08:53.869
climb to be interesting you also want a steep
01:08:53.869 --> 01:08:56.390
wall because otherwise the moves are just gonna
01:08:56.390 --> 01:08:59.390
well probably not work so well like if you have
01:08:59.390 --> 01:09:01.829
a 30 degree wall your biggest limiting factor
01:09:01.829 --> 01:09:05.369
is usually like friction on the whole than being
01:09:05.369 --> 01:09:07.829
able to sort of balance on it. But when you have
01:09:07.829 --> 01:09:09.850
like a 70 degree wall, it's your full body power
01:09:09.850 --> 01:09:12.590
that can work with it. And 70 degree walls don't
01:09:12.590 --> 01:09:14.750
really exist at many of the competition venues,
01:09:14.949 --> 01:09:18.090
if any, even nowadays. So I think that would
01:09:18.090 --> 01:09:22.149
be a big like separator of the styles in a way.
01:09:22.329 --> 01:09:24.369
Because if you made it like long and traversing,
01:09:24.369 --> 01:09:26.670
I think you end up with like resting positions
01:09:26.670 --> 01:09:29.810
that are more relaxed than you could have in
01:09:29.810 --> 01:09:33.109
like a steeper 50, 60, 70 degree roof. and and
01:09:33.109 --> 01:09:36.090
also a lot of the power boulders nowadays they
01:09:36.090 --> 01:09:38.250
have more cruxes rather than just being like
01:09:38.250 --> 01:09:41.430
purely being able to sustain the energy output
01:09:41.430 --> 01:09:43.529
you know what i mean that's how i feel at least
01:09:43.529 --> 01:09:46.189
yeah i would agree just uh the wall angle i feel
01:09:46.189 --> 01:09:48.310
like roof climbing is quite underrepresented
01:09:48.310 --> 01:09:51.850
in in competition and just compared to like how
01:09:51.850 --> 01:09:54.489
it is represented in commercial climbing and
01:09:54.489 --> 01:09:58.430
outside outdoor climbing it's it's uh it's yeah
01:09:58.430 --> 01:10:01.119
you very rarely see that at competitions yeah
01:10:01.119 --> 01:10:03.479
i wonder if that's like a filming issue absolutely
01:10:03.479 --> 01:10:05.899
it could be it's got to be right yeah or even
01:10:05.899 --> 01:10:08.659
if you're like in the audience like i feel like
01:10:08.659 --> 01:10:11.319
it would be kind of hard to see if you're not
01:10:11.319 --> 01:10:14.260
right up against the mats yeah i mean i think
01:10:14.260 --> 01:10:17.100
i think that's largely the reason for a lot of
01:10:17.100 --> 01:10:19.539
the decisions on like what styles to represent
01:10:19.539 --> 01:10:21.720
in competition is like how well they do on camera
01:10:21.720 --> 01:10:23.699
how interesting it is to watch that that's kind
01:10:23.699 --> 01:10:25.810
of what dictates it the most i think Well, going
01:10:25.810 --> 01:10:28.430
into the next audience question from Lucky Penguin
01:10:28.430 --> 01:10:31.189
3, what do you think the future of comp climbing
01:10:31.189 --> 01:10:34.430
will look like? I think for me, I wouldn't consider
01:10:34.430 --> 01:10:36.930
too much of like the moves and the styles that's
01:10:36.930 --> 01:10:38.909
going to change. I'm just very curious about
01:10:38.909 --> 01:10:42.310
how the sport and how we consume it will differ.
01:10:42.569 --> 01:10:45.350
Because it's still like climbing is kind of a
01:10:45.350 --> 01:10:48.810
huge sport from my perception, at least. Like
01:10:48.810 --> 01:10:50.810
it seems like there's a lot of gyms opening up.
01:10:50.850 --> 01:10:52.789
It's booming everywhere. Everybody knows somebody
01:10:52.789 --> 01:10:58.119
who climbs. i would be surprised if competition
01:10:58.119 --> 01:11:00.800
climbing couldn't expand a lot more in viewership
01:11:00.800 --> 01:11:02.979
i'm not gonna be the one to say how i think the
01:11:02.979 --> 01:11:05.899
pcl is like an extremely great attempt at it
01:11:05.899 --> 01:11:08.720
and an interesting take on it but i feel like
01:11:08.720 --> 01:11:10.180
there's got to be a lot of different ways that
01:11:10.180 --> 01:11:12.840
competition climbing will evolve over the years
01:11:12.840 --> 01:11:18.390
um and that's gonna be interesting to see to
01:11:18.390 --> 01:11:20.670
me because i mean they have changed the format
01:11:20.670 --> 01:11:22.810
i don't know how many times since i started climbing
01:11:22.810 --> 01:11:26.409
like from zones to bonuses to points to i don't
01:11:26.409 --> 01:11:30.750
know what um and and all those things for me
01:11:30.750 --> 01:11:34.350
uh affect the experience like tremendously um
01:11:34.350 --> 01:11:36.810
i mean i for instance love the point system but
01:11:36.810 --> 01:11:40.010
it does also sort of create a different type
01:11:40.010 --> 01:11:42.250
of separation than we had before and i think
01:11:42.250 --> 01:11:45.359
when i started tops were worth so much more than
01:11:45.359 --> 01:11:48.380
zones that you almost didn't care about a zone
01:11:48.380 --> 01:11:50.960
anyways those things like the rules have changed
01:11:50.960 --> 01:11:52.359
so so much and i feel like that's what's going
01:11:52.359 --> 01:11:55.680
to change competition climbing more than necessarily
01:11:55.680 --> 01:11:58.159
the setting or the style because that's just
01:11:58.159 --> 01:12:00.260
going to be trends going up and back like back
01:12:00.260 --> 01:12:02.439
and forth i think over the years but yeah again
01:12:02.439 --> 01:12:06.600
i i couldn't dive into like what would be better
01:12:06.600 --> 01:12:08.539
or different um but i just feel like there's
01:12:08.539 --> 01:12:10.600
so many ways you can experience competition climbing
01:12:10.600 --> 01:12:12.689
and i've Do you think that's going to change
01:12:12.689 --> 01:12:14.569
a lot over the years? I don't think it will change
01:12:14.569 --> 01:12:17.649
that much. It has kind of followed the same direction
01:12:17.649 --> 01:12:20.130
over the years. And I don't think I mean, it's
01:12:20.130 --> 01:12:24.189
always changed a lot since like 2011 or so. But
01:12:24.189 --> 01:12:25.869
in the past five years, it's kind of like it's
01:12:25.869 --> 01:12:28.329
been about the same. They've maybe shifted the
01:12:28.329 --> 01:12:31.510
ratios a bit on like what styles are more and
01:12:31.510 --> 01:12:33.229
more or less common. And there are like I said,
01:12:33.390 --> 01:12:35.050
there are like trends, but I don't think we'll
01:12:35.050 --> 01:12:37.949
ever go back to this this like power climbs of.
01:12:38.390 --> 01:12:43.130
of 2010 or whatever. I do think that competition
01:12:43.130 --> 01:12:46.489
climbing will continue to grow a lot. I feel
01:12:46.489 --> 01:12:50.970
like it's still growing and it has become so
01:12:50.970 --> 01:12:55.829
much bigger a part of the sport than it was when
01:12:55.829 --> 01:12:59.270
I started. I feel like when I started, at least
01:12:59.270 --> 01:13:00.930
in Sweden, it felt that way. I don't know if
01:13:00.930 --> 01:13:03.029
it felt that way in other parts of the world,
01:13:03.050 --> 01:13:05.250
but outdoor climbing felt like it was the thing.
01:13:05.789 --> 01:13:11.010
And competition climbing was something that some
01:13:11.010 --> 01:13:14.050
people did, but it was a small part of the sport.
01:13:14.189 --> 01:13:16.430
And now it feels like it's the main part of the
01:13:16.430 --> 01:13:20.130
sport for a lot of people. It's at least a really
01:13:20.130 --> 01:13:22.310
big part of it. And I think that will continue,
01:13:22.890 --> 01:13:26.010
that direction will continue and competition
01:13:26.010 --> 01:13:30.170
climbing will just become more exclusive. And
01:13:30.170 --> 01:13:34.529
I think the top end will will rise a lot. I think
01:13:34.529 --> 01:13:37.909
the sport is still quite small and we will continue
01:13:37.909 --> 01:13:42.350
to see many examples of Janjas and Cerrados come
01:13:42.350 --> 01:13:47.470
out. Okay, next one from Pad Sarma. What expectations
01:13:47.470 --> 01:13:50.050
should a beginner have at a comp? What were your
01:13:50.050 --> 01:13:53.529
first ones like? Well, for me, my first comps
01:13:53.529 --> 01:13:56.390
were like, those were almost the best, to be
01:13:56.390 --> 01:14:01.729
honest. Yeah, I just had like... always had a
01:14:01.729 --> 01:14:05.529
some level of a smile on my face or like a really
01:14:05.529 --> 01:14:08.430
cool experience because what i what i like to
01:14:08.430 --> 01:14:11.329
view comps as is you get to have like these perfectly
01:14:11.329 --> 01:14:13.550
curated boulders and you get to have a session
01:14:13.550 --> 01:14:16.270
on them where you can talk to your friends like
01:14:16.270 --> 01:14:18.729
really analyze everything afterwards and and
01:14:18.729 --> 01:14:22.069
i mean depending on which comp you enter it's
01:14:22.069 --> 01:14:24.850
just going to be perfect boulders for you to
01:14:24.850 --> 01:14:28.239
enjoy in most cases like probably suited to your
01:14:28.239 --> 01:14:30.260
style depending or not your style but your level
01:14:30.260 --> 01:14:32.239
depending on what level of the comp you're entering
01:14:32.239 --> 01:14:35.100
and even if they're not you just get to try some
01:14:35.100 --> 01:14:36.819
really really cool moves that you definitely
01:14:36.819 --> 01:14:39.840
wouldn't get to experience in many other scenarios
01:14:39.840 --> 01:14:42.899
because it's rare that gyms can fit that like
01:14:42.899 --> 01:14:46.359
style and the aesthetics of a climb in a wall
01:14:46.359 --> 01:14:48.720
without having to sacrifice a lot of other wall
01:14:48.720 --> 01:14:51.939
space so i mean you just have this like one beautiful
01:14:51.939 --> 01:14:54.060
art piece that somebody put out for you to enjoy
01:14:54.569 --> 01:14:57.449
so just soak that in enjoy the experience though
01:14:57.449 --> 01:15:00.350
those are my thoughts on like especially the
01:15:00.350 --> 01:15:03.489
first couple of comps you can do then as you
01:15:03.489 --> 01:15:06.489
progress i mean it can you know you have performance
01:15:06.489 --> 01:15:08.750
that start to dictate and you know all these
01:15:08.750 --> 01:15:11.529
things but in the beginning it's just such a
01:15:11.529 --> 01:15:14.189
beautiful thing yeah absolutely just try to have
01:15:14.189 --> 01:15:16.909
fun i mean at the end of the day unless you're
01:15:16.909 --> 01:15:19.470
a professional climber climbing is just a hobby
01:15:19.470 --> 01:15:22.289
it's just something you do for fun so and try
01:15:22.289 --> 01:15:25.029
not to get too much in your head when things
01:15:25.029 --> 01:15:27.810
don't go your way like maybe you fall off the
01:15:27.810 --> 01:15:30.529
last move of the bow of the first boulder with
01:15:30.529 --> 01:15:34.430
like five seconds left or whatever just forget
01:15:34.430 --> 01:15:37.689
about it and move on and just yeah but especially
01:15:37.689 --> 01:15:40.609
just try to have fun because often like if you
01:15:40.609 --> 01:15:44.590
if you get in your head and you kind of aren't
01:15:44.590 --> 01:15:46.630
having fun you probably won't perform as well
01:15:46.630 --> 01:15:50.600
either easier said than done absolutely you said
01:15:50.600 --> 01:15:52.920
that you felt like uh like the mental aspect
01:15:52.920 --> 01:15:55.760
wasn't a hard part for you when you tried competing
01:15:55.760 --> 01:15:59.939
so do you have any like tips there uh did you
01:15:59.939 --> 01:16:02.100
have something emin you can go ahead i can formulate
01:16:02.100 --> 01:16:05.920
my thoughts a little bit i i i've uh because
01:16:05.920 --> 01:16:08.000
it's not like i have uh i've struggled a lot
01:16:08.000 --> 01:16:10.939
with competitions in both good ways and bad ways
01:16:10.939 --> 01:16:14.720
in terms of the mental headspace you're in um
01:16:14.720 --> 01:16:20.029
but i i personally find that it like once you
01:16:20.029 --> 01:16:24.310
start to overthink it it's very easy to get sucked
01:16:24.310 --> 01:16:26.090
into those thoughts deeper and deeper and deeper
01:16:26.090 --> 01:16:28.250
and the best way for me to experience competition
01:16:28.250 --> 01:16:31.369
climbing is to just really view it as like a
01:16:31.369 --> 01:16:34.930
an experience um and as i mentioned just having
01:16:34.930 --> 01:16:38.930
these beautiful dogs to get on um so yeah i feel
01:16:38.930 --> 01:16:41.529
like for me mentally that helps the most to really
01:16:41.529 --> 01:16:43.869
not focus on what the performance part of it
01:16:43.869 --> 01:16:46.520
is and just focus on how epic it is to get to
01:16:46.520 --> 01:16:50.859
climb on on these things yeah i i think i do
01:16:50.859 --> 01:16:55.760
a lot of the same um i do get nervous before
01:16:55.760 --> 01:16:59.359
it comes like i think that's that's not necessarily
01:16:59.359 --> 01:17:04.619
a bad thing but i tend to when i get out on the
01:17:04.619 --> 01:17:07.960
mats like for one thing i think i tend to be
01:17:07.960 --> 01:17:11.619
like overly positive which can be good like i
01:17:11.619 --> 01:17:14.460
always think like oh I'm gonna go out and it's
01:17:14.460 --> 01:17:18.119
gonna go so well and that's kind of just that's
01:17:18.119 --> 01:17:22.920
just kind of how I think um which I think can
01:17:22.920 --> 01:17:27.140
help and uh then I don't know when I get out
01:17:27.140 --> 01:17:30.840
on on the mats I get really just kind of focused
01:17:30.840 --> 01:17:34.659
on the climbing what happens if you say oh it's
01:17:34.659 --> 01:17:37.560
gonna go well and it doesn't go well yeah but
01:17:37.560 --> 01:17:41.600
then like Let's say it goes poorly the first
01:17:41.600 --> 01:17:43.539
boulder. Then I think, well, maybe no one did
01:17:43.539 --> 01:17:45.159
that boulder. Maybe it was just really hard.
01:17:45.260 --> 01:17:47.939
And maybe I can make it through if I do the next
01:17:47.939 --> 01:17:50.739
boulder. And then that doesn't go well. And then,
01:17:50.760 --> 01:17:55.779
I mean, often I'm wrong. Often I don't do that
01:17:55.779 --> 01:17:57.500
boulder and it turns out everyone else did it.
01:17:57.600 --> 01:18:01.159
But in the moment, in the comp, I'm thinking
01:18:01.159 --> 01:18:04.359
like, well, no, but that was so hard. Like, probably
01:18:04.359 --> 01:18:09.229
no one did it. And I think it helps. And then
01:18:09.229 --> 01:18:12.930
last one from Montgomery's. What's your favorite...
01:18:12.930 --> 01:18:18.609
Wait, hold on. World of Warcraft raid slash dungeon.
01:18:18.930 --> 01:18:21.890
I was like, wait, what is WOW again? I know this
01:18:21.890 --> 01:18:26.789
one. Okay. That's a niche question if I ever
01:18:26.789 --> 01:18:29.090
heard one. Yeah, we could talk for hours about
01:18:29.090 --> 01:18:32.189
this. Yeah, that's a whole separate podcast,
01:18:32.550 --> 01:18:35.050
I would say. Is it a niche question? A lot of
01:18:35.050 --> 01:18:37.149
people play that. Yeah, yeah, but it's quite
01:18:37.149 --> 01:18:39.130
separate from competition climbing. Oh, yeah,
01:18:39.170 --> 01:18:41.189
yeah. You know what I mean? So in that way, niched.
01:18:41.670 --> 01:18:44.569
Niched in the sense that people who listen to
01:18:44.569 --> 01:18:46.649
this podcast most likely might not be like, oh,
01:18:46.670 --> 01:18:48.789
yeah, I have to know this. Well, for the interest,
01:18:49.050 --> 01:18:54.109
BWL. Felix? Oh, man. Zulgarub, maybe. There we
01:18:54.109 --> 01:18:57.010
go. If I spent 10 minutes, I would come up with
01:18:57.010 --> 01:18:58.949
a different answer. Wait, what was it called?
01:18:59.789 --> 01:19:02.760
Zulgarub. For those who know. I'm sure they'll
01:19:02.760 --> 01:19:04.800
be very interested in that. If you know, you
01:19:04.800 --> 01:19:07.840
know. Yeah. Okay, cool. Well, I think that's
01:19:07.840 --> 01:19:09.739
all the questions I had for today then. Thanks
01:19:09.739 --> 01:19:11.859
for joining. And of course, I will leave the
01:19:11.859 --> 01:19:14.520
link to the Fantasy Climbing League below. Make
01:19:14.520 --> 01:19:16.800
sure to join as soon as possible because it will
01:19:16.800 --> 01:19:19.239
close, I think, probably in like a week after
01:19:19.239 --> 01:19:21.220
this comes out. Practically, yeah, I guess so.
01:19:21.500 --> 01:19:24.779
Yeah, like three, four days, I think. Yeah, for
01:19:24.779 --> 01:19:26.300
the bouldering. But then we have lead and speed
01:19:26.300 --> 01:19:28.960
still rolling. Okay, so you'll be able to join
01:19:28.960 --> 01:19:33.489
those like... week or so before that starts up
01:19:33.489 --> 01:19:36.750
yeah i mean i would say like if if it turns out
01:19:36.750 --> 01:19:39.229
a lot of people miss it we can always start another
01:19:39.229 --> 01:19:42.770
league um with just every comp except the first
01:19:42.770 --> 01:19:46.149
one included so all right cool well um want to
01:19:46.149 --> 01:19:47.489
let people know where they can find you guys
01:19:47.489 --> 01:19:51.369
i mean i'm i'm usually on youtube emil abramson
01:19:51.369 --> 01:19:54.869
that's where they find me yeah i could be found
01:19:54.869 --> 01:19:58.569
on instagram my handle is cream monster with
01:19:58.569 --> 01:20:01.810
a k I'm not super active, but if you want to
01:20:01.810 --> 01:20:05.470
follow, I'm happy. Cool. Well, thank you again.
01:20:05.609 --> 01:20:08.489
Good chat. Thank you. Of course. Thank you. Thank
01:20:08.489 --> 01:20:11.090
you so much for making it to the end of the podcast.
01:20:11.489 --> 01:20:13.869
Don't forget to like and subscribe if you enjoyed.
01:20:14.130 --> 01:20:17.720
Otherwise, you are a super fake climber. If you're
01:20:17.720 --> 01:20:20.140
listening on a podcasting platform, I'd appreciate
01:20:20.140 --> 01:20:22.859
if you rate it five stars and you can continue
01:20:22.859 --> 01:20:25.640
the discussion on the free competition climbing
01:20:25.640 --> 01:20:28.640
discord linked in the description. Thanks again
01:20:28.640 --> 01:20:29.100
for listening.
