57: Jackie Hueftle, Pro Climbing League Routesetting Director

Jackie was the routesetting director at the Pro Climbing League (PCL) comp and is also the co-founder of Kilter! In this episode, we’ll learn more about the unique challenges that came with setting for PCL, why she thinks it’s important to have more women setting for women’s comps, and how YOU could maybe try climbing the same exact boulders set at PCL.

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Show Notes

Guest links:

Kiter’s Website

Jackie’s Instagram

Pro Climbing League Website

Kilter Youtube

Reference links:

Underrated hold

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Timestamps

Timestamps of discussion topics

0:00 - Intro

1:20 - Mad Rock Shoutout!!

2:00 - Still cleaning up from PCL

5:42 - Interesting Kilter free-standing option

7:34 - Getting into climbing, setting, and Kilter

13:38 - The political path to becoming an IFSC setter

15:34 - Starting the Woman Up Comps

20:00 - What grade do you need to climb to be a route setter?

22:31 - AUDIENCE Q: How did you build the PCL routesetting team?

28:46 - What made setting different for PCL

32:09 - How to get separation

36:30 - AUDIENCE Q: Was this speed bouldering, was women's setting too easy?

41:57 - Is sanding down holds fair?!

43:47 - Why it's hard to calibrate for female competitors

51:16 - How boulder changeover worked

55:37 - The slab that didn't get shown

58:24 - Different competition strategies

1:03:27 - AUDIENCE Q: Harder to gauge setting than World Cup?

1:04:18 - AUDIENCE Q: Did the setting matter more than a World Cup?

1:07:04 - AUDIENCE Q: Mixed gender events in the future?

1:09:13 - AUDIENCE Q: idea - 2 betas per boulder?

1:11:12 - AUDIENCE Q: Are setters more impressed or annoyed by beta breaks?

1:17:23 - AUDIENCE Q: What makes Kilter stand out?

1:22:30 - Underrated hold?

1:25:02 - Shoutouts and long work hours

1:26:51 - YOU can reset the PCL climbs and experience them!

• Full Transcript

  WEBVTT

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  No, I was awake for 25 hours on the day of the

  00:00:02.399 --> 00:00:05.280

  event. Part of my complaint when I was studying

  00:00:05.280 --> 00:00:07.240

  more of these events is we need more strong women

  00:00:07.240 --> 00:00:09.259

  and you need multiples of us and you need to

  00:00:09.259 --> 00:00:11.480

  let us do this part. You know, not that women

  00:00:11.480 --> 00:00:13.060

  can't suffer men and men can't suffer women,

  00:00:13.099 --> 00:00:15.619

  but I think what's wrong with letting some people

  00:00:15.619 --> 00:00:19.120

  specialize? Especially commercially, like you're

  00:00:19.120 --> 00:00:21.699

  studying at a climbing gym. You don't need to

  00:00:21.699 --> 00:00:26.359

  climb part of the B6 necessarily. It's a pro

  00:00:26.359 --> 00:00:28.600

  climbing league. It's not like the IFSC is great

  00:00:28.600 --> 00:00:30.699

  because they have a really serious job, which

  00:00:30.699 --> 00:00:33.079

  is selecting the Olympic athletes for our sport.

  00:00:33.219 --> 00:00:35.500

  We don't have that serious job. Our serious job

  00:00:35.500 --> 00:00:37.200

  is trying to do something fun for people to watch

  00:00:37.200 --> 00:00:40.299

  and for the athletes to compete in. Welcome to

  00:00:40.299 --> 00:00:42.460

  another episode of the That's Not World Climbing

  00:00:42.460 --> 00:00:45.060

  podcast. I'm your host, Jinni, and I'm excited

  00:00:45.060 --> 00:00:47.460

  to introduce my guest for today, Jackie Hueftle.

  00:00:48.119 --> 00:00:50.820

  Jackie was the routesetting director at the Pro Climbing

  00:00:50.820 --> 00:00:53.700

  League or PCL Comp and is also the co -founder

  00:00:53.700 --> 00:00:56.590

  of Kilter. In this episode, we'll learn more

  00:00:56.590 --> 00:00:58.630

  about the unique challenges that came with setting

  00:00:58.630 --> 00:01:01.390

  for PCL, why she thinks it's important to have

  00:01:01.390 --> 00:01:04.569

  more women setting for women's comps, and how

  00:01:04.569 --> 00:01:07.709

  you could maybe try climbing the exact same boulder

  00:01:07.709 --> 00:01:11.170

  set at PCL. I hope you enjoy this episode with

  00:01:11.170 --> 00:01:22.200

  Jackie. Please pardon this brief intermission,

  00:01:22.280 --> 00:01:24.719

  but I'm excited to talk about Mad Rock's newest

  00:01:24.719 --> 00:01:27.900

  and softest shoe yet, the Remora Pro. If you

  00:01:27.900 --> 00:01:29.540

  like being able to feel the chips you're standing

  00:01:29.540 --> 00:01:32.480

  on, and you like not having to worry about standing

  00:01:32.480 --> 00:01:35.319

  on sketchy volumes in competitions, then this

  00:01:35.319 --> 00:01:38.930

  is the soft shoe for you. They also have a crazy

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  3D heel that allows you to get more surface area

  00:01:41.769 --> 00:01:44.609

  when heel hooking, and inserts that lock your

  00:01:44.609 --> 00:01:46.909

  heel into the shoe no matter how hard you're

  00:01:46.909 --> 00:01:49.329

  pulling. Feel free to message me if you have

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  any questions about the shoes or sizing, and

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  you can use the discount code NOTREALCLIMBER

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  for 10 % off your entire Mad Rock order. Thank

  00:01:57.349 --> 00:01:59.209

  you to Mad Rock for helping to sponsor the podcast.

  00:01:59.530 --> 00:02:01.709

  Now, back to the show. Yeah, how are you doing

  00:02:01.709 --> 00:02:04.450

  today? You're still in London, right? We're in

  00:02:04.450 --> 00:02:07.799

  Sheffield, actually. which is north a few hours

  00:02:07.799 --> 00:02:10.219

  of London. It's in the Peak District, which is

  00:02:10.219 --> 00:02:12.280

  the main climbing, well, I don't know if I could

  00:02:12.280 --> 00:02:13.780

  say main climbing area and get away with it,

  00:02:13.840 --> 00:02:15.439

  but it's a very popular climbing area in the

  00:02:15.439 --> 00:02:19.460

  UK. Wait, the comp didn't take place there? No,

  00:02:19.460 --> 00:02:22.939

  for the comp, we put everything in lorries and

  00:02:22.939 --> 00:02:25.039

  drove them to London and unloaded them and built

  00:02:25.039 --> 00:02:26.939

  everything in the venue and then had the comp

  00:02:26.939 --> 00:02:29.099

  and then took everything down that night and

  00:02:29.099 --> 00:02:30.819

  then put it back in lorries and then drove it

  00:02:30.819 --> 00:02:33.759

  back to Sheffield and then unloaded it. We're

  00:02:33.759 --> 00:02:39.300

  still here sorting it because we, you know, the

  00:02:39.300 --> 00:02:41.500

  comp had duplicate boulders. And so we had to

  00:02:41.500 --> 00:02:44.219

  have triplicate holds and volumes. So we had

  00:02:44.219 --> 00:02:46.919

  two for the boulders and one backup in case something

  00:02:46.919 --> 00:02:49.419

  went wrong with the holder volume. Like it got

  00:02:49.419 --> 00:02:52.800

  damaged in transit or like, I don't know, it

  00:02:52.800 --> 00:02:56.759

  blew a connection point or it broke somehow behind

  00:02:56.759 --> 00:02:58.840

  a wall or whatever could happen. I just wanted

  00:02:58.840 --> 00:03:01.270

  to make sure we had a backup. Yeah, that's a

  00:03:01.270 --> 00:03:03.710

  good idea. When do you finally get to go back

  00:03:03.710 --> 00:03:05.889

  home? It's been like a really long time since

  00:03:05.889 --> 00:03:08.770

  the end of the comp. It's like a month now. No,

  00:03:08.909 --> 00:03:13.330

  it's been like two weeks. Yeah. So it does feel

  00:03:13.330 --> 00:03:15.949

  like a while. No, we we so we both, you know,

  00:03:15.949 --> 00:03:21.169

  we finished the comp. We had a couple extra days

  00:03:21.169 --> 00:03:24.270

  with some of the other crew from PCL and then

  00:03:24.270 --> 00:03:28.259

  everybody left. And then. Me and Ian and Will

  00:03:28.259 --> 00:03:31.340

  Watkins from Unleashed Climbing and Super has

  00:03:31.340 --> 00:03:33.780

  been helping us too. Then the Core guys have

  00:03:33.780 --> 00:03:37.280

  been great. So we've been sorting stuff out,

  00:03:37.400 --> 00:03:39.300

  but we did like some customer visits. We had

  00:03:39.300 --> 00:03:41.259

  to sort stuff out for customers. And then we've

  00:03:41.259 --> 00:03:44.240

  been working in a warehouse. Core generously

  00:03:44.240 --> 00:03:46.139

  gave us space in their warehouse, but they also

  00:03:46.139 --> 00:03:47.919

  have, they're running like a flooring business.

  00:03:48.039 --> 00:03:50.159

  So there's like constantly a new maze every day

  00:03:50.159 --> 00:03:53.419

  of like big buns of foam and flooring pieces

  00:03:53.419 --> 00:03:58.080

  and our stuff and pallets. It's been a hectic

  00:03:58.080 --> 00:04:00.539

  and then we've been sick. Everybody's been sick

  00:04:00.539 --> 00:04:03.599

  for at least a few days. So I actually spent

  00:04:03.599 --> 00:04:06.759

  an entire day in bed this week, which I like

  00:04:06.759 --> 00:04:09.740

  normally don't don't do. But everyone's just

  00:04:09.740 --> 00:04:13.139

  kind of hit the wall. So. But it's cool, too.

  00:04:13.199 --> 00:04:15.919

  We're sorting everything out and there's a lot

  00:04:15.919 --> 00:04:17.519

  of interest in a lot of the different sets from

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  the comp. So we're trying to get people the right

  00:04:19.379 --> 00:04:21.920

  pricing and the right options. And then we're

  00:04:21.920 --> 00:04:23.379

  going to have a copy of everything. Also, the

  00:04:23.379 --> 00:04:25.040

  setting center we're going to have either in.

  00:04:25.819 --> 00:04:27.800

  Colorado or we're working on building one in

  00:04:27.800 --> 00:04:31.639

  France um for it's like it'll be like a home

  00:04:31.639 --> 00:04:35.779

  with a barn with walls um so we'll send some

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  materials to you should places too how much longer

  00:04:38.339 --> 00:04:40.500

  do you think it'll take yeah getting back home

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  I don't know I mean we when we when we came over

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  to look at the venue for PCL in October 2024

  00:04:46.939 --> 00:04:49.339

  we came over for 10 days and we ended up staying

  00:04:49.339 --> 00:04:51.540

  for like almost three months in Europe because

  00:04:51.540 --> 00:04:54.700

  we have trade shows and we have distributors

  00:04:54.700 --> 00:04:58.300

  and partners to visit and so um and that was

  00:04:58.300 --> 00:05:02.160

  you know 2024 to winter of 2025 and then this

  00:05:02.160 --> 00:05:03.939

  year we were already over here for a few months

  00:05:03.939 --> 00:05:09.740

  uh in france and then um we've been here now

  00:05:09.740 --> 00:05:12.779

  for about a month we'd like to go home get some

  00:05:12.779 --> 00:05:14.100

  work done there but we're working on some stuff

  00:05:14.100 --> 00:05:17.279

  here too so it's like you just never know where

  00:05:17.279 --> 00:05:19.079

  the best place to be is when you have a lot of

  00:05:19.079 --> 00:05:23.639

  projects um but uh But we have a CWA trade show

  00:05:23.639 --> 00:05:26.379

  in the U .S. in April, so we're definitely going

  00:05:26.379 --> 00:05:28.600

  to be home for that. Where is it this year? It's

  00:05:28.600 --> 00:05:31.199

  in Salt Lake City. Okay, cool. Yeah, it's very

  00:05:31.199 --> 00:05:33.600

  cool. You should consider coming. There's a lot

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  of cool industry talks and education and certification

  00:05:37.500 --> 00:05:40.279

  and stuff, and then also a big vendor trade show,

  00:05:40.399 --> 00:05:42.399

  so you can see all the new everything from everybody.

  00:05:42.740 --> 00:05:46.870

  Yeah, I've thought about going before. A while

  00:05:46.870 --> 00:05:48.930

  ago when I was thinking about maybe one day I

  00:05:48.930 --> 00:05:51.649

  would want to own a gym. And then I was like,

  00:05:51.649 --> 00:05:53.769

  I don't really have the money to own a gym. So

  00:05:53.769 --> 00:05:56.810

  maybe not. Yeah. I mean, one of the things about

  00:05:56.810 --> 00:05:59.350

  like we're trying to give people more options

  00:05:59.350 --> 00:06:01.709

  in several areas of the industry. And one of

  00:06:01.709 --> 00:06:03.930

  the things we're doing with our adjustable freestanding

  00:06:03.930 --> 00:06:06.829

  walls, like the walls of the comp were entirely

  00:06:06.829 --> 00:06:08.970

  freestanding, even though they were pretty, pretty

  00:06:08.970 --> 00:06:12.610

  big. And they adjust and that's our kilter boards

  00:06:12.610 --> 00:06:16.069

  do as well. So for boards like that, it's like

  00:06:16.069 --> 00:06:18.730

  much less of a commitment for you. If you were

  00:06:18.730 --> 00:06:20.550

  to rent a space, you could get a couple of those

  00:06:20.550 --> 00:06:22.870

  and put them in. And then if you wanted to change

  00:06:22.870 --> 00:06:25.410

  your layout or get a different space or sell

  00:06:25.410 --> 00:06:27.470

  them because you don't like the business or expand

  00:06:27.470 --> 00:06:29.990

  and move everything, you can just put them in

  00:06:29.990 --> 00:06:32.069

  crates and move them and build them again. So

  00:06:32.069 --> 00:06:35.129

  you're not like, you know, it's not as much of

  00:06:35.129 --> 00:06:37.629

  a commitment as like a built in wall that's like

  00:06:37.629 --> 00:06:39.250

  going to go down with the building, basically.

  00:06:39.629 --> 00:06:41.550

  So I guess like, what do you like? What do you

  00:06:41.550 --> 00:06:43.230

  mean by freestanding? Like, what does that mean?

  00:06:43.600 --> 00:06:45.660

  It means you don't have to attach them to the

  00:06:45.660 --> 00:06:47.579

  building structure in any way. So they don't

  00:06:47.579 --> 00:06:49.939

  need to be bolted to the ground or screwed into

  00:06:49.939 --> 00:06:53.939

  the wall. It's pretty common with even a freestanding

  00:06:53.939 --> 00:06:56.759

  frame. It means it has legs, basically. So it

  00:06:56.759 --> 00:07:00.660

  can stand on its own legs. And so there's different

  00:07:00.660 --> 00:07:03.660

  models on the market. Certainly, you can have

  00:07:03.660 --> 00:07:05.860

  one with legs and also add a couple of bolts

  00:07:05.860 --> 00:07:08.160

  or some concrete screws for a little added wiggle

  00:07:08.160 --> 00:07:11.040

  stability. And that's always nice, too. You know,

  00:07:11.040 --> 00:07:12.639

  you can do kind of a hybrid, but even that you

  00:07:12.639 --> 00:07:14.360

  can just cut the bolts off when you leave the

  00:07:14.360 --> 00:07:16.060

  space. And that's fairly common in commercial

  00:07:16.060 --> 00:07:19.259

  spaces to have the ability to add like shelving

  00:07:19.259 --> 00:07:23.740

  or materials like that. But our new walls, you

  00:07:23.740 --> 00:07:26.019

  don't even have to put anything in the floor

  00:07:26.019 --> 00:07:28.279

  if you don't want to. So you can, but you don't

  00:07:28.279 --> 00:07:30.889

  have to. I'm not going to ask the details of

  00:07:30.889 --> 00:07:33.829

  how that works physically, but that's good to

  00:07:33.829 --> 00:07:38.209

  know. And yeah, I guess going into these walls

  00:07:38.209 --> 00:07:41.329

  and kilter and everything related to that in

  00:07:41.329 --> 00:07:44.269

  your background, how did you get into climbing

  00:07:44.269 --> 00:07:47.509

  setting and this whole kilter thing? I got into

  00:07:47.509 --> 00:07:51.550

  climbing in high school and my mom was actually

  00:07:51.550 --> 00:07:54.389

  dating a climber for a long time. He was a climber

  00:07:54.389 --> 00:07:56.449

  and scuba diver and he started taking my brother

  00:07:56.449 --> 00:07:58.170

  climbing and I didn't want to go because I'd

  00:07:58.170 --> 00:08:01.290

  been climbing before and done climbing. And then

  00:08:01.290 --> 00:08:03.029

  I finally went again and then I fell in love

  00:08:03.029 --> 00:08:04.750

  with it immediately. And that was all I've done

  00:08:04.750 --> 00:08:09.470

  since. So and I got, you know, like most gyms

  00:08:09.470 --> 00:08:11.889

  in the late 90s, it wasn't a robust route setting

  00:08:11.889 --> 00:08:14.490

  program in place. So, you know, they decided

  00:08:14.490 --> 00:08:16.050

  they wanted to teach some people from the gym

  00:08:16.050 --> 00:08:17.850

  and I was invited to come to the class and I

  00:08:17.850 --> 00:08:19.509

  really loved it. And so I've been doing it ever

  00:08:19.509 --> 00:08:22.949

  since. So that was in 1998, both those things.

  00:08:23.310 --> 00:08:27.110

  And then six years later, I moved to Boulder,

  00:08:27.269 --> 00:08:30.009

  Colorado and applied at all the gyms before I

  00:08:30.009 --> 00:08:31.550

  even arrived because I'd been working at a gym

  00:08:31.550 --> 00:08:34.990

  for six years at that point. And, you know, later

  00:08:34.990 --> 00:08:36.809

  I learned it's fairly hard to show up in Boulder

  00:08:36.809 --> 00:08:38.710

  and just start getting a route setting job at

  00:08:38.710 --> 00:08:41.289

  the gyms because a lot of people have that skill

  00:08:41.289 --> 00:08:43.169

  set or some form of it and they want to set.

  00:08:44.110 --> 00:08:47.399

  But I got a job coaching the spot. and working

  00:08:47.399 --> 00:08:51.019

  the desk. And within like a month, the head setter

  00:08:51.019 --> 00:08:52.899

  at the time let me set a climb for a comp they

  00:08:52.899 --> 00:08:55.220

  were having. And I set one climb and he looked

  00:08:55.220 --> 00:08:57.139

  at it and he goes, oh, okay. And he hired me.

  00:08:57.399 --> 00:09:00.879

  So then I worked in the setting program at the

  00:09:00.879 --> 00:09:02.720

  spot. And then later I became the head setter

  00:09:02.720 --> 00:09:06.879

  at the spot for several years. And that was really

  00:09:06.879 --> 00:09:10.259

  fun. We did a lot of comps. We did like four

  00:09:10.259 --> 00:09:13.340

  pretty big comps every year. Each one of our

  00:09:13.340 --> 00:09:15.340

  comps had a big red point round and a pro finals.

  00:09:15.419 --> 00:09:18.679

  And at the time in Boulder, you know, the athletes

  00:09:18.679 --> 00:09:20.460

  we were setting this pro final for were like

  00:09:20.460 --> 00:09:23.039

  Daniel Woods and Dave Graham and Paul Robinson

  00:09:23.039 --> 00:09:26.059

  and Maddie Hong. And then, you know, Alex Puccio

  00:09:26.059 --> 00:09:28.100

  and Megan Mascarenas and Nina Williams. So it

  00:09:28.100 --> 00:09:30.379

  was like, this was like when Megan was winning

  00:09:30.379 --> 00:09:31.980

  the world cups. Like this was like the highest

  00:09:31.980 --> 00:09:34.240

  level of athlete that there was at the time,

  00:09:34.259 --> 00:09:38.639

  basically. So it was very cool thing to do. And

  00:09:38.639 --> 00:09:40.580

  it actually like pulled me away from, I'd been

  00:09:40.580 --> 00:09:44.269

  setting. like seeking out setting bigger comps

  00:09:44.269 --> 00:09:45.929

  like I'd set some youth nationals and I'd set

  00:09:45.929 --> 00:09:48.789

  some pro comps the ones on the trade show you

  00:09:48.789 --> 00:09:51.169

  know on the roof I'd set a few few years of that

  00:09:51.169 --> 00:09:54.029

  um we did the outside on this parking garage

  00:09:54.029 --> 00:09:57.409

  roof and it was like this big light show and

  00:09:57.409 --> 00:10:01.049

  it was a pretty big event um I love doing those

  00:10:01.049 --> 00:10:04.450

  things but doing like just hiding running our

  00:10:04.450 --> 00:10:06.370

  own events at my own gym was something I really

  00:10:06.370 --> 00:10:08.799

  enjoyed and then I also like built a route setting

  00:10:08.799 --> 00:10:11.919

  program and built a mentorship program and, you

  00:10:11.919 --> 00:10:13.899

  know, made documentation of the skill sets I

  00:10:13.899 --> 00:10:15.279

  wanted my setters to have and all this stuff

  00:10:15.279 --> 00:10:16.960

  that I thought was really important or she'll

  00:10:16.960 --> 00:10:21.379

  think is really important. Um, but then, um,

  00:10:21.480 --> 00:10:24.220

  well, two things. One is we had a big outdoor

  00:10:24.220 --> 00:10:27.019

  comp, uh, before I was head setter called the

  00:10:27.019 --> 00:10:28.899

  battle in the bubble and it was an invite and

  00:10:28.899 --> 00:10:32.870

  it was a cool, like. It was battle mode. It wasn't

  00:10:32.870 --> 00:10:34.870

  head to head like PCL. There weren't two identical

  00:10:34.870 --> 00:10:37.429

  problems. It was head to head like the two athletes

  00:10:37.429 --> 00:10:40.169

  of the final final took turns trying to do it

  00:10:40.169 --> 00:10:42.610

  first. So it's just like one after the other,

  00:10:42.629 --> 00:10:43.909

  like if one fell off, the other one could get

  00:10:43.909 --> 00:10:48.070

  on. And it was we had the comp outdoors on the

  00:10:48.070 --> 00:10:50.029

  shores of the Boulder Reservoir. And we had like

  00:10:50.029 --> 00:10:52.350

  the first the start hold was like brought in

  00:10:52.350 --> 00:10:54.610

  by a skydiver and then like bolted to the wall.

  00:10:54.669 --> 00:10:57.330

  And like it was an elimination comp. So we had

  00:10:57.330 --> 00:10:59.190

  like eight people in the first boulder and like.

  00:10:59.720 --> 00:11:02.919

  five on the second boulder and three on the third

  00:11:02.919 --> 00:11:05.379

  boulder and then two on the final boulder um

  00:11:05.379 --> 00:11:08.000

  and it was just a really cool show and it made

  00:11:08.000 --> 00:11:11.379

  me feel like yeah we can definitely do more with

  00:11:11.379 --> 00:11:13.659

  comps than kind of what's been happening and

  00:11:13.659 --> 00:11:16.899

  i think like ifsc stuff is super great for the

  00:11:16.899 --> 00:11:19.019

  olympic track and we support the ifsc at kilter

  00:11:19.019 --> 00:11:22.320

  but um Also, the athletes need more opportunities

  00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:24.639

  and trying to create those for them through something

  00:11:24.639 --> 00:11:27.940

  that's like more flashy and like publicly really

  00:11:27.940 --> 00:11:30.480

  appealing, even for non -climbers. Yeah. How

  00:11:30.480 --> 00:11:33.159

  did you eventually like end up at Kilter? So

  00:11:33.159 --> 00:11:35.259

  I was the head setter at the spot and Ian Powell,

  00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:37.179

  who I'd known from when I first moved to Boulder

  00:11:37.179 --> 00:11:40.279

  because he had been an artist in town. He worked

  00:11:40.279 --> 00:11:42.240

  at the wall company that was next to the spot.

  00:11:42.360 --> 00:11:45.139

  And then he also helped coach the women's team

  00:11:45.139 --> 00:11:47.820

  I was on for a little bit. And then he disappeared

  00:11:47.820 --> 00:11:50.379

  for a while, but he came back to the scene. um

  00:11:50.379 --> 00:11:52.320

  you can like read about him if you want he had

  00:11:52.320 --> 00:11:56.799

  an adventurous few years and he was working at

  00:11:56.799 --> 00:11:58.179

  the spot and he was like stripping the walls

  00:11:58.179 --> 00:12:02.019

  for us and washing all the holds and um so he

  00:12:02.019 --> 00:12:03.600

  got a good feel for what was out there in terms

  00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:05.860

  of climbing holds and he had been shaping climbing

  00:12:05.860 --> 00:12:07.980

  holds since the late 80s and he'd had his own

  00:12:07.980 --> 00:12:10.899

  company and before that he then sold just e -grips

  00:12:10.899 --> 00:12:12.820

  it's now called trango because trango had bought

  00:12:12.820 --> 00:12:15.580

  it and they just renamed it the other year um

  00:12:15.580 --> 00:12:19.620

  and so anyway we were friends and he started

  00:12:20.039 --> 00:12:22.500

  shaping again behind the walls of the spot actually

  00:12:22.500 --> 00:12:24.720

  so i'd like go into work and he will like strip

  00:12:24.720 --> 00:12:26.419

  the wall for us and wash the holds then he'd

  00:12:26.419 --> 00:12:28.340

  like be behind the wall somewhere shaping holds

  00:12:28.340 --> 00:12:31.559

  and the hold market at the time was pretty stale

  00:12:31.559 --> 00:12:35.220

  um i'd been had a pretty robust blog for the

  00:12:35.220 --> 00:12:38.019

  spot that included like you know move by move

  00:12:38.019 --> 00:12:41.980

  evaluations of world cups uh events and the athletes

  00:12:41.980 --> 00:12:44.899

  and then also we did some hold reviews and we

  00:12:44.899 --> 00:12:46.840

  talked about like route setting concepts and

  00:12:46.840 --> 00:12:49.240

  all these things that weren't really well documented

  00:12:49.240 --> 00:12:53.120

  at the time and uh and so i kind of knew what

  00:12:53.120 --> 00:12:55.100

  was out there for new holds at the time and it

  00:12:55.100 --> 00:12:58.019

  was feeling pretty stale and like you know 2011

  00:12:58.019 --> 00:13:02.059

  2012 and then ian came back and started shaping

  00:13:02.059 --> 00:13:04.460

  and it was just really exciting to like see some

  00:13:04.460 --> 00:13:06.899

  new good stuff again so when he got the first

  00:13:06.899 --> 00:13:09.019

  sets back in plastic i started helping sell them

  00:13:09.019 --> 00:13:12.320

  um and then that turned into him and i and a

  00:13:12.320 --> 00:13:15.720

  third partner forming a company together and

  00:13:15.720 --> 00:13:18.940

  then um We later bought that third partner out

  00:13:18.940 --> 00:13:24.299

  and had another new CFO, basically, who's our

  00:13:24.299 --> 00:13:29.779

  third partner now. And yeah, in about 2017 or

  00:13:29.779 --> 00:13:32.259

  I think 2018, I got one foot out of the spot

  00:13:32.259 --> 00:13:33.899

  boat, as it were, and put both feet in the kilter

  00:13:33.899 --> 00:13:35.580

  boat. So I was kind of doing both jobs for quite

  00:13:35.580 --> 00:13:38.139

  a while there. And then I've been full -time

  00:13:38.139 --> 00:13:40.620

  kilter since then. Awesome. So I guess you kind

  00:13:40.620 --> 00:13:43.720

  of went down that path instead of, I guess, trying

  00:13:43.720 --> 00:13:46.279

  to shoot for like an IFSC route center path?

  00:13:46.669 --> 00:13:50.129

  Yeah. I mean, the system for that was really

  00:13:50.129 --> 00:13:52.309

  undeveloped at the time and it was very like

  00:13:52.309 --> 00:13:57.129

  political. And I definitely didn't get along

  00:13:57.129 --> 00:14:00.529

  with the people I needed to suck up to to get

  00:14:00.529 --> 00:14:04.250

  those jobs. That's what it's like. Yeah. Well,

  00:14:04.409 --> 00:14:06.210

  it was. And in the U .S. especially, there was

  00:14:06.210 --> 00:14:08.370

  like a couple of people kind of controlling everything

  00:14:08.370 --> 00:14:11.090

  and like sitting on. like essentially positions

  00:14:11.090 --> 00:14:13.529

  of power for themselves and not really mentoring

  00:14:13.529 --> 00:14:15.409

  others. So there's like other good setters that

  00:14:15.409 --> 00:14:17.409

  U .S. could have in IFSC that didn't really get

  00:14:17.409 --> 00:14:21.570

  the chance at the time. And that's kind of changed

  00:14:21.570 --> 00:14:23.149

  too, I think. More people are getting opportunities

  00:14:23.149 --> 00:14:25.649

  now. But yeah, there was kind of a period of,

  00:14:25.649 --> 00:14:28.230

  I couldn't play the game that I had to play and

  00:14:28.230 --> 00:14:30.710

  I thought it was inappropriate to ask people

  00:14:30.710 --> 00:14:33.929

  to play that game, basically. So I, you know,

  00:14:33.929 --> 00:14:36.549

  like I said, I was setting bigger comps. I enjoyed

  00:14:36.549 --> 00:14:39.200

  doing that, but... Especially at the time, it

  00:14:39.200 --> 00:14:44.620

  was overworked, underpaid, paid super late, super

  00:14:44.620 --> 00:14:50.639

  unorganized events. And it was fun, but having

  00:14:50.639 --> 00:14:52.720

  my own gym where I could control the events,

  00:14:52.820 --> 00:14:55.539

  plan them, make sure we had the right resources,

  00:14:55.679 --> 00:14:57.379

  make sure my setting team got to go home at a

  00:14:57.379 --> 00:14:59.159

  reasonable hour and worked a reasonable kinds

  00:14:59.159 --> 00:15:01.100

  of hours and we had a good result. And we were

  00:15:01.100 --> 00:15:03.779

  still setting for these top athletes. That was

  00:15:03.779 --> 00:15:08.429

  plenty to keep me happy. We did. uh world cup

  00:15:08.429 --> 00:15:10.250

  like special set every year because the world

  00:15:10.250 --> 00:15:11.870

  cup is in veil so all the athletes would come

  00:15:11.870 --> 00:15:13.809

  to boulder for a week or so before and so we

  00:15:13.809 --> 00:15:15.590

  would do like special sets for them so that was

  00:15:15.590 --> 00:15:17.350

  really fun to watch those athletes in the gym

  00:15:17.350 --> 00:15:21.590

  on the stuff we set for them and we um yeah i

  00:15:21.590 --> 00:15:24.190

  really enjoyed that period of time and then like

  00:15:24.190 --> 00:15:26.629

  since then and since kilter and since i'm not

  00:15:26.629 --> 00:15:29.549

  setting it to spot all the time uh i try to do

  00:15:29.549 --> 00:15:31.649

  like a couple events like one event or two events

  00:15:31.649 --> 00:15:33.690

  a year so i'll do like a clinic and an event

  00:15:33.690 --> 00:15:36.789

  a special pump or something um We started Woman

  00:15:36.789 --> 00:15:39.570

  Up in 2017 with Touchstone, which is an all -female

  00:15:39.570 --> 00:15:41.830

  and non -binary setting crew. Oh, I didn't know

  00:15:41.830 --> 00:15:45.929

  you started it. Yeah, they Touchstone crew and

  00:15:45.929 --> 00:15:50.110

  I came up with it, basically. Oh, cool. Yeah,

  00:15:50.149 --> 00:15:52.490

  I've been. It's cool. Oh, yeah. So they're an

  00:15:52.490 --> 00:15:55.549

  old head setter. And then the women, they're

  00:15:55.549 --> 00:15:57.210

  like a ton of amazing women that work at Touchstone.

  00:15:57.409 --> 00:15:59.230

  And so we were kind of like trying to pitch it.

  00:15:59.330 --> 00:16:00.789

  And then they were like really excited about

  00:16:00.789 --> 00:16:02.470

  making it a whole thing. And then they invited

  00:16:02.470 --> 00:16:06.070

  me to come be the chief setter, which was fantastic.

  00:16:05.960 --> 00:16:09.419

  which is, you know, what I wanted to do. And

  00:16:09.419 --> 00:16:11.779

  the team I picked the first year, there were

  00:16:11.779 --> 00:16:17.779

  only like seven women I knew. Actually, I mean,

  00:16:17.820 --> 00:16:20.000

  six women I knew that were even at the time,

  00:16:20.000 --> 00:16:22.100

  like thought were able to do that kind of event.

  00:16:22.139 --> 00:16:24.700

  We had like 70 boulder problems or 65 and then

  00:16:24.700 --> 00:16:27.460

  pro finals. So I invited them and then there

  00:16:27.460 --> 00:16:29.860

  was like one more. I didn't know that the previous

  00:16:29.860 --> 00:16:31.899

  head center touchdown knew her and suggested

  00:16:31.899 --> 00:16:35.259

  her. So that was the first year there was seven

  00:16:35.259 --> 00:16:38.600

  of us. And none of them worked at Touchstone

  00:16:38.600 --> 00:16:40.259

  because they just didn't have any women setters

  00:16:40.259 --> 00:16:44.340

  at the time. And then the second year, we were

  00:16:44.340 --> 00:16:48.440

  in LA and there was 11 setters and three of them

  00:16:48.440 --> 00:16:50.340

  were Touchstone staff. And it was like, awesome.

  00:16:50.519 --> 00:16:52.860

  And Touchstone's, I can't say enough good things

  00:16:52.860 --> 00:16:56.139

  about the crew there and what they did for women's

  00:16:56.139 --> 00:16:58.460

  setting, not just for their own gym, but in general

  00:16:58.460 --> 00:17:00.419

  and what they did by supporting this event because

  00:17:00.419 --> 00:17:02.879

  it's not been... You know, I think it's a really

  00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:04.660

  big event. I think it's pretty expensive. And

  00:17:04.660 --> 00:17:06.359

  I think that they just do it as an active service

  00:17:06.359 --> 00:17:10.539

  for the community. And they like pay you enough

  00:17:10.539 --> 00:17:14.019

  to make it like to justify being there. You know,

  00:17:14.019 --> 00:17:15.539

  we would do it for free because we think it's

  00:17:15.539 --> 00:17:17.000

  cool, but we shouldn't be doing these things

  00:17:17.000 --> 00:17:20.740

  for free either. And like and they, you know,

  00:17:20.740 --> 00:17:23.980

  create like there's like just a lot of cool like

  00:17:23.980 --> 00:17:26.900

  activations for brands and integrations for community.

  00:17:27.039 --> 00:17:29.500

  And like they have so many groups they support.

  00:17:30.279 --> 00:17:32.740

  um that are doing other cool things for the community

  00:17:32.740 --> 00:17:35.460

  indirectly so they're supporting them and then

  00:17:35.460 --> 00:17:37.839

  those those groups are doing like bringing people

  00:17:37.839 --> 00:17:42.839

  outside of you know different um genders and

  00:17:42.839 --> 00:17:47.059

  different backgrounds and different like i don't

  00:17:47.059 --> 00:17:49.940

  know they're trying to create more access for

  00:17:49.940 --> 00:17:52.559

  people of all types basically and then based

  00:17:52.559 --> 00:17:54.660

  on i guess your experience in the past with route

  00:17:54.660 --> 00:17:58.480

  setting do you feel like um it's changed a lot

  00:17:58.480 --> 00:18:00.740

  from back then like do you think it's a lot better

  00:18:00.740 --> 00:18:03.859

  like people aren't um getting super underpaid

  00:18:03.859 --> 00:18:06.779

  super overworked oh i think it's getting better

  00:18:06.779 --> 00:18:10.759

  it's still hard yeah i think it's a hard job

  00:18:10.759 --> 00:18:12.880

  and i think if you haven't done the job you don't

  00:18:12.880 --> 00:18:15.180

  understand how tiring it is and if you have done

  00:18:15.180 --> 00:18:16.599

  it but then you haven't done it for a while you

  00:18:16.599 --> 00:18:19.920

  forget how tiring it is um so i think it's like

  00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:22.460

  it still could be paid more but i do think it's

  00:18:22.460 --> 00:18:26.279

  improved um like i said there was The only women

  00:18:26.279 --> 00:18:27.619

  I could think of that I thought could do the

  00:18:27.619 --> 00:18:29.599

  job, basically, with the exception of Molly Beard,

  00:18:29.619 --> 00:18:32.000

  who's been doing it for much longer than me and

  00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:34.660

  set the last nationals I competed in, for example.

  00:18:34.920 --> 00:18:37.099

  We didn't have her just because she achieved

  00:18:37.099 --> 00:18:39.220

  so many events. We were trying to create opportunities

  00:18:39.220 --> 00:18:42.599

  for more setters to come and have positions of

  00:18:42.599 --> 00:18:44.519

  responsibility. And then we had a bunch of clinics

  00:18:44.519 --> 00:18:46.619

  also from the first woman up and still continue

  00:18:46.619 --> 00:18:50.180

  to do so to teach people. So besides Molly, the

  00:18:50.180 --> 00:18:52.650

  only other women that I knew that. really could

  00:18:52.650 --> 00:18:54.390

  do an event like that were invited for the first

  00:18:54.390 --> 00:18:55.710

  one. And like I said, for the second one, it

  00:18:55.710 --> 00:18:57.789

  was, we've got some more women that we'd met

  00:18:57.789 --> 00:19:01.309

  that had been setting and some touchstone people.

  00:19:01.470 --> 00:19:03.329

  And the third one, it was like half touchstone

  00:19:03.329 --> 00:19:06.230

  employees and half other setters. And then the

  00:19:06.230 --> 00:19:08.309

  fourth one was all touchstone employees, except

  00:19:08.309 --> 00:19:10.190

  for Sarah Filler, who chiefed, and she'd done

  00:19:10.190 --> 00:19:11.710

  the first three with us. She was interned the

  00:19:11.710 --> 00:19:13.670

  first year and assisted the next year and then

  00:19:13.670 --> 00:19:18.230

  chief the fourth year. And then now they do a

  00:19:18.230 --> 00:19:20.579

  application process. because there's so many

  00:19:20.579 --> 00:19:22.720

  interested parties. And so I was chief for three

  00:19:22.720 --> 00:19:24.900

  years and then stepped away because I feel like,

  00:19:24.920 --> 00:19:28.460

  again, like there's cool opportunities there.

  00:19:28.559 --> 00:19:30.619

  It's a teaching event in many ways. And we wanted

  00:19:30.619 --> 00:19:33.740

  people to progress through the steps of being

  00:19:33.740 --> 00:19:35.599

  at the event and then being an assistant at the

  00:19:35.599 --> 00:19:39.380

  event and then being like a. in a position of

  00:19:39.380 --> 00:19:40.980

  more responsibility at the event and different

  00:19:40.980 --> 00:19:43.160

  people getting to chief. Yeah. So, and then we,

  00:19:43.160 --> 00:19:46.079

  again, like we teach clinics for the public and

  00:19:46.079 --> 00:19:48.819

  for staff and I've seen, you know, some of those

  00:19:48.819 --> 00:19:50.680

  people we've seen again, like being on the crew

  00:19:50.680 --> 00:19:55.140

  even in the future. So yeah, in the US and Canada,

  00:19:55.180 --> 00:19:56.500

  I was just speaking to another setter about this

  00:19:56.500 --> 00:19:58.619

  last night. I think it's gotten way better for

  00:19:58.619 --> 00:20:00.539

  female setting and non -binary setting. Like

  00:20:00.539 --> 00:20:03.460

  it's just normalized. I think over here in Europe,

  00:20:03.559 --> 00:20:07.460

  they're like trying. And there's some like pretty

  00:20:07.460 --> 00:20:09.799

  active women, but still in the whole, it's like

  00:20:09.799 --> 00:20:16.359

  behind or there's fewer still. It's not as normalized

  00:20:16.359 --> 00:20:18.319

  and they would like to have more women, but they're

  00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:19.759

  kind of struggling to find them. And I think

  00:20:19.759 --> 00:20:21.960

  women don't feel as comfortable also getting

  00:20:21.960 --> 00:20:24.000

  into the sport. And then there's a lot of attitude

  00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:28.019

  of like, if you can't climb super hard, you shouldn't

  00:20:28.019 --> 00:20:30.160

  be route setting. And I don't agree with that

  00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:32.680

  because especially commercially, like you're

  00:20:32.680 --> 00:20:35.220

  setting at a climbing gym, you don't need to.

  00:20:35.859 --> 00:20:38.480

  climb part of the V6 necessarily. There need

  00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:40.839

  to be a few people on the crew that do, but you

  00:20:40.839 --> 00:20:43.660

  can split your labor up so nobody's doing way

  00:20:43.660 --> 00:20:45.220

  too much of the work and you're getting a good

  00:20:45.220 --> 00:20:47.720

  product because you need a good product for all

  00:20:47.720 --> 00:20:49.299

  of the abilities of climber in your gym, not

  00:20:49.299 --> 00:20:52.559

  just the strongest. Interesting. But you feel

  00:20:52.559 --> 00:20:55.880

  like being able to climb V6 is kind of like something

  00:20:55.880 --> 00:20:58.359

  you need in order to be a route center? No, not

  00:20:58.359 --> 00:20:59.960

  necessarily. I should have picked a slightly

  00:20:59.960 --> 00:21:02.259

  lower number. So if you look at a bell curve

  00:21:02.259 --> 00:21:06.460

  for what you would want in a gym, you know, and

  00:21:06.460 --> 00:21:08.200

  the majority of people come into the gym, you

  00:21:08.200 --> 00:21:10.940

  have a really heavy concentration of use from

  00:21:10.940 --> 00:21:15.359

  like V2 to V6, V4 to V6, because people are like

  00:21:15.359 --> 00:21:18.359

  either warming up, climbing or projecting those

  00:21:18.359 --> 00:21:20.480

  grades. You know, like if you're like climbing

  00:21:20.480 --> 00:21:23.140

  V4, you're going to like warm up on V2 and then

  00:21:23.140 --> 00:21:25.500

  you're going to like project V4 or, you know,

  00:21:25.519 --> 00:21:27.700

  project V5 sometimes. I'm just picking a number.

  00:21:27.779 --> 00:21:29.960

  And that's right in that belt, that like heavy

  00:21:29.960 --> 00:21:34.220

  part of the curve. So yes, you need to have things

  00:21:34.220 --> 00:21:36.279

  for your strongest climbers and things for people

  00:21:36.279 --> 00:21:37.960

  to aspire to, and you need to have things for

  00:21:37.960 --> 00:21:40.880

  your beginner climbers. But one thing that is

  00:21:40.880 --> 00:21:43.099

  getting, again, improved, but it was hard for

  00:21:43.099 --> 00:21:46.539

  a long time, some gyms have always been good

  00:21:46.539 --> 00:21:48.339

  at it and a lot of gyms struggle with it, is

  00:21:48.339 --> 00:21:51.400

  those lower level climbs. Because people are

  00:21:51.400 --> 00:21:53.079

  coming into the gym and they want to try climbing,

  00:21:53.180 --> 00:21:55.650

  and then what does that mean? They want to try

  00:21:55.650 --> 00:21:57.789

  climbing and then ideally we give them a reason

  00:21:57.789 --> 00:21:59.710

  to enjoy climbing and want to come back, which

  00:21:59.710 --> 00:22:01.369

  means that they get to try something that makes

  00:22:01.369 --> 00:22:03.529

  them inspired to try something else, to try something

  00:22:03.529 --> 00:22:05.390

  harder, to try something harder and feel like

  00:22:05.390 --> 00:22:07.769

  if they come back, they could do it. To feel

  00:22:07.769 --> 00:22:10.589

  like they did something, like there's somewhere

  00:22:10.589 --> 00:22:13.269

  to go, there's progression and it's intriguing

  00:22:13.269 --> 00:22:16.750

  to get that progression. Versus like I said,

  00:22:16.789 --> 00:22:18.490

  when I was a teenager, the first time I'd climbed,

  00:22:18.670 --> 00:22:22.089

  I liked it, but then I thought I'd done climbing.

  00:22:23.279 --> 00:22:25.140

  you know and then when I it wasn't until I went

  00:22:25.140 --> 00:22:26.380

  back that I was like oh there's like a whole

  00:22:26.380 --> 00:22:28.720

  world of infinite possibility here that I want

  00:22:28.720 --> 00:22:31.359

  to explore yeah that makes sense and I guess

  00:22:31.359 --> 00:22:35.000

  along the lines of um like women in setting one

  00:22:35.000 --> 00:22:36.960

  of the audience questions that had come in was

  00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:40.519

  um it's very cool that a woman is the route setting

  00:22:40.519 --> 00:22:44.299

  director for PCL um what has your experience

  00:22:44.299 --> 00:22:46.400

  been like in that role and how did you build

  00:22:46.400 --> 00:22:50.690

  the route setting team ah um okay so The reason

  00:22:50.690 --> 00:22:52.430

  we made a route setting director position in

  00:22:52.430 --> 00:22:53.950

  the first place, which I think is important to

  00:22:53.950 --> 00:22:56.670

  mention, is that originally when we did the test

  00:22:56.670 --> 00:23:00.130

  events, I was the chief setter and I was so busy

  00:23:00.130 --> 00:23:03.109

  trying to organize like the comps kind of complex

  00:23:03.109 --> 00:23:05.390

  and kind of organize everything that it was clear

  00:23:05.390 --> 00:23:07.369

  that it wasn't really appropriate to have me

  00:23:07.369 --> 00:23:11.450

  expecting to like A, set things and B, D, like

  00:23:11.450 --> 00:23:14.109

  the last voice of overview as to what was being

  00:23:14.109 --> 00:23:15.869

  set. Like we needed a chief setter to keep an

  00:23:15.869 --> 00:23:18.890

  eye on the range and the level and make sure

  00:23:18.890 --> 00:23:21.160

  that like. the little details of the setting

  00:23:21.160 --> 00:23:23.559

  were covered. And that if I was being pulled

  00:23:23.559 --> 00:23:25.960

  away constantly to deal with everything else

  00:23:25.960 --> 00:23:28.119

  related to the comp as well and integrating the

  00:23:28.119 --> 00:23:31.640

  setting, that I couldn't do both well. So we

  00:23:31.640 --> 00:23:33.440

  created a setting position and realized we needed

  00:23:33.440 --> 00:23:39.640

  another headsetter. And so I didn't actually

  00:23:39.640 --> 00:23:41.980

  set this event because I wasn't expecting to,

  00:23:42.099 --> 00:23:45.279

  but I wanted a team that I felt could understand

  00:23:45.279 --> 00:23:48.240

  the complexity of setting this event, which is

  00:23:48.240 --> 00:23:52.160

  just like, you can ask them uh i can try to explain

  00:23:52.160 --> 00:23:54.180

  it basically it seems simple but then when you're

  00:23:54.180 --> 00:23:56.019

  like doing it you're like start to cross your

  00:23:56.019 --> 00:23:57.220

  eyes because you're trying to think about like

  00:23:57.220 --> 00:23:59.980

  okay how do we like plan you know the first couple

  00:23:59.980 --> 00:24:02.259

  ones we set to we did like hidden holds that

  00:24:02.259 --> 00:24:04.700

  we were revealed by removing a volume or covered

  00:24:04.700 --> 00:24:08.059

  up with a volume or rotated the volume so there

  00:24:08.059 --> 00:24:10.539

  was like kind of how do you morph the wall from

  00:24:10.539 --> 00:24:13.339

  one pop to another efficiently and what you have

  00:24:13.339 --> 00:24:18.579

  to have in mind to do that and so um So we created

  00:24:18.579 --> 00:24:20.500

  a director position and then the setting team,

  00:24:20.599 --> 00:24:25.480

  we went around a lot about what we needed the

  00:24:25.480 --> 00:24:28.079

  setting team to be. So the first person that

  00:24:28.079 --> 00:24:30.220

  was on the team was Matt Birch, who worked with

  00:24:30.220 --> 00:24:33.980

  me at a couple of the test events in Colorado

  00:24:33.980 --> 00:24:36.940

  that we did. And he's an English legend, been

  00:24:36.940 --> 00:24:39.839

  climbing since the 80s, climbed V12 in the early

  00:24:39.839 --> 00:24:42.559

  90s, climbed V14, put up the Swarm in Bishop

  00:24:42.559 --> 00:24:46.779

  and was pretty famous in the early 2000s. kind

  00:24:46.779 --> 00:24:48.700

  of a legendary strong climber and he's also been

  00:24:48.700 --> 00:24:50.079

  a route setter for a long time used to work at

  00:24:50.079 --> 00:24:53.180

  touchstone also um he lives in colorado now he's

  00:24:53.180 --> 00:24:55.440

  the head setter at a gym called butt stone and

  00:24:55.440 --> 00:24:57.880

  uh i just think matt's a really good setter i

  00:24:57.880 --> 00:24:59.940

  like his style a lot he's like an old school

  00:24:59.940 --> 00:25:03.420

  style setter he's very good at setting power

  00:25:03.420 --> 00:25:08.000

  tension climbing and if you look at um his comp

  00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:10.420

  his gym's comp every year has like colin duffy

  00:25:10.420 --> 00:25:13.089

  and you know, Ben Hannon, like strong American

  00:25:13.089 --> 00:25:15.609

  climbers come compete in this event. So he separates

  00:25:15.609 --> 00:25:17.809

  these guys every year and broke Rabatou and,

  00:25:17.890 --> 00:25:22.170

  you know, US team members. So I knew he could

  00:25:22.170 --> 00:25:23.869

  do the level and I think he's a great setter.

  00:25:23.910 --> 00:25:27.430

  So Matt was a yes for sure. And then we started

  00:25:27.430 --> 00:25:29.710

  being like, all right, who else? You know, it

  00:25:29.710 --> 00:25:31.490

  was kind of short notice. So some people's schedules

  00:25:31.490 --> 00:25:33.529

  were busy also, but we were like, who would be

  00:25:33.529 --> 00:25:36.069

  a good head setter to, you know, somebody that's

  00:25:36.069 --> 00:25:38.509

  going to be able to listen to the information

  00:25:38.509 --> 00:25:41.369

  from. Me and Matt and also the information from

  00:25:41.369 --> 00:25:43.789

  Charlie and Danon, who are the founders of PCL,

  00:25:43.809 --> 00:25:45.250

  because they had certain things they wanted to

  00:25:45.250 --> 00:25:48.250

  see. So I had a video call with Sergio, who we

  00:25:48.250 --> 00:25:50.329

  ended up choosing to be chief after he was recommended.

  00:25:50.869 --> 00:25:53.769

  I talked through a little bit what we're doing

  00:25:53.769 --> 00:25:56.309

  with him. I really liked his manner and his curiosity.

  00:25:56.329 --> 00:25:59.690

  I think he was interested in trying something

  00:25:59.690 --> 00:26:02.329

  new. He was open to the information we had for

  00:26:02.329 --> 00:26:05.670

  him and the requirements that, you know, different

  00:26:05.670 --> 00:26:10.190

  interested parties had for it. So we decided

  00:26:10.190 --> 00:26:12.849

  to choose him to be the chief because I felt

  00:26:12.849 --> 00:26:16.690

  that we could work with him. And then the other

  00:26:16.690 --> 00:26:20.730

  two setters, well, the other three, we brought

  00:26:20.730 --> 00:26:23.529

  in like in cooperation with him. So Maylis, who's

  00:26:23.529 --> 00:26:25.210

  actually his partner, but she's also just a super

  00:26:25.210 --> 00:26:27.430

  highly ranked female setter, one of the highest

  00:26:27.430 --> 00:26:29.650

  ranked in the world, I think, and most respected.

  00:26:29.710 --> 00:26:34.380

  And then Vojta from... prog who's a newer setter

  00:26:34.380 --> 00:26:36.900

  like to me but he's been around a bit he does

  00:26:36.900 --> 00:26:40.140

  a lot of different events a great kid and then

  00:26:40.140 --> 00:26:42.960

  stefan scraperi who i remember setting for when

  00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:45.599

  he was a competitor uh he was on the world team

  00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:49.579

  he was strong then he might be stronger now he's

  00:26:49.579 --> 00:26:53.319

  just like a monster uh he's just quiet even -tempered

  00:26:53.319 --> 00:26:55.359

  italian guy who's a really good route setter

  00:26:55.359 --> 00:26:57.599

  he's chief like he chief arco recently that did

  00:26:57.599 --> 00:26:59.579

  a dual format so he had some experience with

  00:26:59.579 --> 00:27:03.500

  that as well um Some setters are super fast and

  00:27:03.500 --> 00:27:06.539

  he's one of them and he did a great job. So we

  00:27:06.539 --> 00:27:09.599

  were really, um, happy with the team overall.

  00:27:09.740 --> 00:27:11.960

  And we had like a few, like Matt was sick and

  00:27:11.960 --> 00:27:13.779

  then Maylee's was sick. And, you know, there's

  00:27:13.779 --> 00:27:17.119

  a few other things that happened. Uh, but overall

  00:27:17.119 --> 00:27:20.059

  they did really well together. And I think, um,

  00:27:20.319 --> 00:27:24.000

  took the brief that was offered to them by me

  00:27:24.000 --> 00:27:27.660

  and by Charlie and Dan and by Sergio also taking

  00:27:27.660 --> 00:27:29.180

  the information he had and sharing with them.

  00:27:29.259 --> 00:27:31.680

  And then they just did their best to. really

  00:27:31.680 --> 00:27:33.140

  think about what was going to happen with the

  00:27:33.140 --> 00:27:35.740

  event and how it could go. And, you know, they

  00:27:35.740 --> 00:27:38.160

  were super engaged the entire time with the changeover

  00:27:38.160 --> 00:27:39.980

  and the changeover volunteers and trying to improve

  00:27:39.980 --> 00:27:42.500

  that process. And they were super engaged with

  00:27:42.500 --> 00:27:44.500

  the actual event. And since then, you know, we've

  00:27:44.500 --> 00:27:48.660

  talked a bunch about what to do for the next

  00:27:48.660 --> 00:27:51.740

  one, how to make it better. And so I think, you

  00:27:51.740 --> 00:27:55.220

  know, I don't really care what anybody tells

  00:27:55.220 --> 00:27:58.329

  you. route setting is educated guessing and you

  00:27:58.329 --> 00:28:00.589

  get a calibrator in your head and if your calibrator

  00:28:00.589 --> 00:28:02.450

  is good you do a little better job at that unless

  00:28:02.450 --> 00:28:06.109

  you're really unlucky um but it's you use all

  00:28:06.109 --> 00:28:07.990

  the tools you have at your disposal to do the

  00:28:07.990 --> 00:28:11.630

  best job you can do in any given job and um you

  00:28:11.630 --> 00:28:14.230

  know for me also like i'm not currently studying

  00:28:14.230 --> 00:28:16.710

  that the highest for highest level athletes all

  00:28:16.710 --> 00:28:18.089

  the time and i haven't been paying attention

  00:28:18.089 --> 00:28:20.170

  to them so like i could not tell you right now

  00:28:20.170 --> 00:28:23.450

  with any certainty at all if yanni can do this

  00:28:23.450 --> 00:28:26.359

  or that but These guys have been setting events

  00:28:26.359 --> 00:28:30.140

  that she's in regularly, so they're more on the

  00:28:30.140 --> 00:28:32.380

  level of what can Yanni and Orion do? How do

  00:28:32.380 --> 00:28:35.079

  we separate them? Where's Lucia at? Where's Jenny

  00:28:35.079 --> 00:28:39.119

  at? How do we give those athletes a shot to push,

  00:28:39.200 --> 00:28:44.180

  challenge these top athletes? And so we needed

  00:28:44.180 --> 00:28:47.000

  to have a team that was familiar with those guys

  00:28:47.000 --> 00:28:49.079

  as well. There's going to be a lot of information

  00:28:49.079 --> 00:28:52.049

  coming at this person. As a longtime setter,

  00:28:52.069 --> 00:28:54.690

  notoriously, we don't like a ton of too much

  00:28:54.690 --> 00:28:56.410

  information because it makes it complicated to

  00:28:56.410 --> 00:28:58.690

  do your job. So part of my job was trying to

  00:28:58.690 --> 00:29:01.849

  protect the setting team from being overwhelmed

  00:29:01.849 --> 00:29:03.670

  by the information, but also make sure they got

  00:29:03.670 --> 00:29:05.869

  the correct information so they could do the

  00:29:05.869 --> 00:29:09.089

  best job they could do. If we didn't tell them

  00:29:09.089 --> 00:29:13.119

  enough about how this... format plays out it

  00:29:13.119 --> 00:29:14.480

  wouldn't really be fair to them because they

  00:29:14.480 --> 00:29:16.160

  were going to have to guess which they had ever

  00:29:16.160 --> 00:29:18.240

  it's always educated guessing but they just weren't

  00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:19.779

  going to have enough information to even try

  00:29:19.779 --> 00:29:21.819

  to do a good job like they would try to do a

  00:29:21.819 --> 00:29:23.299

  good job but it would be really hard if there

  00:29:23.299 --> 00:29:24.700

  was something you just didn't tell them like

  00:29:24.700 --> 00:29:29.019

  oh actually if you you know set a run across

  00:29:29.019 --> 00:29:31.519

  at the first in the beginning of this thing like

  00:29:31.519 --> 00:29:33.019

  we're not going to be able to score it and so

  00:29:33.019 --> 00:29:35.319

  there'll be a lot of ties and like it'll be weird

  00:29:35.319 --> 00:29:39.180

  or true like We can move the wall angles if you

  00:29:39.180 --> 00:29:41.299

  need to to change the difficulty, so we want

  00:29:41.299 --> 00:29:44.579

  to be planning for that. Or the way the seating

  00:29:44.579 --> 00:29:46.519

  works. We need to tell them how the seating works

  00:29:46.519 --> 00:29:48.039

  so they know which athletes they have so it's

  00:29:48.039 --> 00:29:50.460

  not like the bottom four seats can't do anything

  00:29:50.460 --> 00:29:52.579

  and only the top four seats can and it's super

  00:29:52.579 --> 00:29:56.440

  boring. As it was, some of the women's climbs

  00:29:56.440 --> 00:29:59.640

  got climbed a little fast, but it was partially

  00:29:59.640 --> 00:30:02.799

  luck of the draw. Partially, the friction was

  00:30:02.799 --> 00:30:04.539

  super good on the stage for some reason and it

  00:30:04.539 --> 00:30:08.319

  should have been worse than the venue. Partially

  00:30:08.319 --> 00:30:10.019

  some of the best climbers in the world who were

  00:30:10.019 --> 00:30:14.460

  really motivated to win. And so I think like

  00:30:14.460 --> 00:30:17.240

  if we'd seen a full World Cup field on the boulders,

  00:30:17.279 --> 00:30:19.359

  they would have been perceived differently because

  00:30:19.359 --> 00:30:20.720

  there would have been the spread people were

  00:30:20.720 --> 00:30:22.700

  expecting. But when you have the two best in

  00:30:22.700 --> 00:30:25.920

  the world, it's a very fine line for how to make

  00:30:25.920 --> 00:30:29.019

  sure they can really do it or throw down on it

  00:30:29.019 --> 00:30:30.819

  versus just getting completely shut down because

  00:30:30.819 --> 00:30:35.339

  you've overshot versus, you know. And Oriane

  00:30:35.339 --> 00:30:38.339

  stuck a move that Yanya didn't stick. And, you

  00:30:38.339 --> 00:30:40.299

  know, the athletes for the athletes, this format's

  00:30:40.299 --> 00:30:42.880

  new as well. So then the question is, should

  00:30:42.880 --> 00:30:44.940

  she get back on and try to win? Like, could she?

  00:30:45.059 --> 00:30:47.500

  Probably. Should she? Maybe. What does it look

  00:30:47.500 --> 00:30:49.559

  like for her if she falls off again? What does

  00:30:49.559 --> 00:30:51.619

  it look like if, you know, is it worth watching

  00:30:51.619 --> 00:30:53.559

  Oriane to understand the best way to do the boulder?

  00:30:53.680 --> 00:30:55.440

  Because Oriane might slip and then she can beat

  00:30:55.440 --> 00:30:58.319

  her. So it's just. I think the athletes themselves

  00:30:58.319 --> 00:31:00.240

  are going to have some strategy to consider for

  00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:02.519

  this event. How did the experience compare to

  00:31:02.519 --> 00:31:04.720

  setting other comps? Like, did you feel more

  00:31:04.720 --> 00:31:07.980

  pressure setting for this than other comps? Or,

  00:31:08.039 --> 00:31:09.680

  I mean, not you physically setting. Well, no,

  00:31:09.740 --> 00:31:11.759

  the thing is I didn't because I wasn't setting.

  00:31:11.839 --> 00:31:14.200

  I was kind of trying to balance, like, knowing

  00:31:14.200 --> 00:31:16.180

  a lot about the format and making sure they had

  00:31:16.180 --> 00:31:17.579

  the information and making sure they had all

  00:31:17.579 --> 00:31:20.480

  the tools they needed. And, like, you know, we

  00:31:20.480 --> 00:31:22.910

  were working in a... space that core generously

  00:31:22.910 --> 00:31:25.569

  provided for us to work in but it was still like

  00:31:25.569 --> 00:31:27.970

  their active workspace as well so it was definitely

  00:31:27.970 --> 00:31:30.250

  a little different in terms of people having

  00:31:30.250 --> 00:31:33.150

  to work around each other um it was pretty cold

  00:31:33.150 --> 00:31:35.329

  for a few of the days so stuff like that like

  00:31:35.329 --> 00:31:36.430

  there's going to be something like that at every

  00:31:36.430 --> 00:31:38.529

  event you know that's just a little bit weird

  00:31:38.529 --> 00:31:42.950

  um but yeah i tried to make sure the setters

  00:31:42.950 --> 00:31:45.549

  were probably overly comfortable they're used

  00:31:45.549 --> 00:31:48.269

  to a lot worse and for their part they tried

  00:31:48.269 --> 00:31:52.460

  to you know keep a positive attitude um and just

  00:31:52.460 --> 00:31:55.259

  like figure out a good way to get their job done

  00:31:55.259 --> 00:31:57.799

  despite like video cameras and people measuring

  00:31:57.799 --> 00:31:59.980

  things and people duplicating things and you

  00:31:59.980 --> 00:32:02.859

  know people climbing on the wall people taking

  00:32:02.859 --> 00:32:05.920

  graphic shots of the you know the walls and like

  00:32:05.920 --> 00:32:07.299

  all the other things that were happening related

  00:32:07.299 --> 00:32:10.460

  to this comp um Definitely different for them,

  00:32:10.500 --> 00:32:13.480

  I think. OK, so then what all went into the thought

  00:32:13.480 --> 00:32:16.019

  process for how to get good separation between

  00:32:16.019 --> 00:32:18.940

  the athletes? Yeah, so this one was difficult.

  00:32:19.039 --> 00:32:22.220

  So every test event we had a slightly different

  00:32:22.220 --> 00:32:26.759

  experience with the athletes. And if the athletes

  00:32:26.759 --> 00:32:29.400

  are really close in ability, it's easier, actually,

  00:32:29.559 --> 00:32:32.740

  for the most part. When you have a bigger spread,

  00:32:32.799 --> 00:32:34.339

  it's a little more difficult because you don't

  00:32:34.339 --> 00:32:36.180

  want to have a bad show, which means you want

  00:32:36.180 --> 00:32:39.130

  the like. less strong athletes to get somewhere

  00:32:39.130 --> 00:32:41.549

  without the strongest athlete just having a field

  00:32:41.549 --> 00:32:44.190

  day on everything. So like when Yania fell off

  00:32:44.190 --> 00:32:46.109

  the first qualifier, everybody was like, yes.

  00:32:46.809 --> 00:32:48.630

  And she did it immediately after, but she still

  00:32:48.630 --> 00:32:50.609

  made a mistake. And I was like, I'm sure she

  00:32:50.609 --> 00:32:52.609

  was annoyed, but it was definitely a good, better

  00:32:52.609 --> 00:32:54.309

  show, you know, and Kamoa did the same on the

  00:32:54.309 --> 00:32:56.410

  men's. He fell off the last move the first qualifier

  00:32:56.410 --> 00:33:00.650

  twice. So the balance was like setting some moves

  00:33:00.650 --> 00:33:02.569

  that are fun to watch without them being too

  00:33:02.569 --> 00:33:05.750

  easy or too hard. And then setting some test

  00:33:05.750 --> 00:33:08.710

  moves. enough test moves that you give the athletes

  00:33:08.710 --> 00:33:10.849

  like basically they're trying to get progressive

  00:33:10.849 --> 00:33:13.230

  difficulty on the climbs which is a way we used

  00:33:13.230 --> 00:33:15.150

  to set a lot of comps like each move's kind of

  00:33:15.150 --> 00:33:19.069

  harder than the last um modern comps aren't always

  00:33:19.069 --> 00:33:20.829

  like that because of the zone scoring because

  00:33:20.829 --> 00:33:22.490

  you can just make it hard to the zone and then

  00:33:22.490 --> 00:33:23.910

  you can make it hard again after the zone but

  00:33:23.910 --> 00:33:26.230

  it doesn't necessarily have to be progressively

  00:33:26.230 --> 00:33:30.730

  difficult um and people also wanted a slightly

  00:33:30.730 --> 00:33:32.609

  different style so we were trying to like reduce

  00:33:32.609 --> 00:33:34.829

  the number of parkour moves that were done and

  00:33:34.829 --> 00:33:38.759

  make sure it was asking the athletes to be flexibly

  00:33:38.759 --> 00:33:41.400

  strong and, you know, low percentage. A good

  00:33:41.400 --> 00:33:44.940

  example is like the men's semifinal, the yellow

  00:33:44.940 --> 00:33:48.700

  boulder. It started off with like a jumpy move.

  00:33:48.759 --> 00:33:50.619

  So a committee move to start that also got your

  00:33:50.619 --> 00:33:53.759

  body like totally engaged. And then they had,

  00:33:53.779 --> 00:33:55.900

  so they had to jump to a volume and catch it.

  00:33:55.960 --> 00:33:58.519

  And then they had to climb up on the volume with

  00:33:58.519 --> 00:34:00.480

  her whole body. And then they totally had to

  00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:02.640

  change mode and get into this like very tense.

  00:34:03.289 --> 00:34:04.890

  techie kind of climbing so it was the one with

  00:34:04.890 --> 00:34:06.930

  all the yellow strips and they had to like a

  00:34:06.930 --> 00:34:10.489

  stone and match and like turn and like you know

  00:34:10.489 --> 00:34:12.829

  everybody was falling off it quite a bit um colin

  00:34:12.829 --> 00:34:16.150

  fell off the last move i think max was the only

  00:34:16.150 --> 00:34:19.489

  one that sent it actually but it was like a full

  00:34:19.489 --> 00:34:24.530

  time limit super tense climbing um good separator

  00:34:24.530 --> 00:34:28.269

  everybody had a chance but they weren't nobody

  00:34:28.269 --> 00:34:30.409

  got to a point where they were just done Even

  00:34:30.409 --> 00:34:33.110

  matching the finish, Max was very engaged. Again,

  00:34:33.389 --> 00:34:36.309

  Colin fell off the finish. To me, that boulder

  00:34:36.309 --> 00:34:41.449

  works the best to make a version of the style

  00:34:41.449 --> 00:34:46.030

  that we're going for. Also, the men's red qualifier

  00:34:46.030 --> 00:34:48.389

  with the big scoop, the big super shields and

  00:34:48.389 --> 00:34:53.050

  the slopey scoops was very cool. But I also enjoyed,

  00:34:53.190 --> 00:34:55.949

  yes, men's qualifier one, the blue one, was kind

  00:34:55.949 --> 00:34:57.789

  of a race. With Toby and Mejji, it was definitely

  00:34:57.789 --> 00:35:00.550

  a race. But it was also like... Very fun to watch.

  00:35:00.650 --> 00:35:02.630

  Yeah, that one was good. The moves were obviously

  00:35:02.630 --> 00:35:04.650

  hard. I mean, it started on two monos. Like,

  00:35:04.670 --> 00:35:07.610

  they were stacking in some of them. But obviously

  00:35:07.610 --> 00:35:10.250

  hard moves, just straight power. Got them engaged

  00:35:10.250 --> 00:35:13.449

  right away. Committing finish move, doable. But,

  00:35:13.510 --> 00:35:15.230

  like, Tomoa fell off it twice, and he's one of

  00:35:15.230 --> 00:35:16.809

  the best in the world at everything. You know,

  00:35:16.829 --> 00:35:19.750

  and he, it's just like there was challenge there,

  00:35:19.889 --> 00:35:24.889

  which was fun to watch. Do you feel like the

  00:35:24.889 --> 00:35:28.030

  setters managed to make it? set in a way so that

  00:35:28.030 --> 00:35:31.429

  each move was harder than the last um no not

  00:35:31.429 --> 00:35:34.750

  necessarily you start out with like a you start

  00:35:34.750 --> 00:35:37.469

  out with a with a theory and a framework and

  00:35:37.469 --> 00:35:39.690

  then you build what you build and you test it

  00:35:39.690 --> 00:35:41.630

  and it is where it is that's kind of what i was

  00:35:41.630 --> 00:35:42.750

  saying earlier but if you give them too many

  00:35:42.750 --> 00:35:44.570

  instructions and you have to do exactly like

  00:35:44.570 --> 00:35:47.449

  this it's too rigid and you could have a worse

  00:35:47.449 --> 00:35:49.309

  product so you have to have like a certain amount

  00:35:49.309 --> 00:35:52.369

  of testing and judgment that comes into it as

  00:35:52.369 --> 00:35:55.500

  well so you have like Here are some ideas. Don't

  00:35:55.500 --> 00:35:58.400

  make it too easy. Make it progressive. Make sure

  00:35:58.400 --> 00:36:00.340

  there's multiple fall points. Try to give them

  00:36:00.340 --> 00:36:03.840

  something that they can work towards. It can't

  00:36:03.840 --> 00:36:06.340

  be too richy. It can't be too, you know, morpho.

  00:36:08.159 --> 00:36:11.460

  We made them use, like, we let them mix brands,

  00:36:11.559 --> 00:36:14.079

  but made them do one color per boulder because

  00:36:14.079 --> 00:36:16.059

  that was the look that we wanted for the broadcast.

  00:36:17.800 --> 00:36:19.400

  You know, we're discussing everything. Like,

  00:36:19.420 --> 00:36:21.199

  okay, what are we going to do next time? Should

  00:36:21.199 --> 00:36:24.179

  we do that? Should we do this other thing? I

  00:36:24.179 --> 00:36:25.360

  don't want to give too much away, but we have

  00:36:25.360 --> 00:36:27.699

  some ideas. But I think it did look really nice

  00:36:27.699 --> 00:36:30.400

  on the screen to have like the two big red lines

  00:36:30.400 --> 00:36:33.460

  next to each other. Yeah, I think like one of

  00:36:33.460 --> 00:36:35.159

  the things I had thought, I know there was a

  00:36:35.159 --> 00:36:38.659

  lot of complaints about it still ending up kind

  00:36:38.659 --> 00:36:42.639

  of like a speed bouldering competition. So I

  00:36:42.639 --> 00:36:44.760

  was thinking like, would it make sense to just

  00:36:44.760 --> 00:36:47.869

  set the boulders extremely hard so that... making

  00:36:47.869 --> 00:36:49.670

  it to each hold is considered an achievement

  00:36:49.670 --> 00:36:53.050

  but then i guess you were talking about like

  00:36:53.050 --> 00:36:55.949

  the seating and it needing to be like top seed

  00:36:55.949 --> 00:36:59.130

  competitor would need to have like a good competition

  00:36:59.130 --> 00:37:01.829

  still against like the lower seated competitor

  00:37:01.829 --> 00:37:06.250

  so maybe that wouldn't work for that reason You

  00:37:06.250 --> 00:37:08.070

  need the lower seed to be able to get somewhere

  00:37:08.070 --> 00:37:10.150

  or it's boring to watch and they just give up.

  00:37:10.250 --> 00:37:12.909

  And also the top seed doesn't have to like if

  00:37:12.909 --> 00:37:14.889

  the lower seed can't do anything, the top seed

  00:37:14.889 --> 00:37:16.769

  doesn't have to keep trying either. Yeah, exactly.

  00:37:17.070 --> 00:37:20.590

  You know? Yeah. So I think like a lot of things

  00:37:20.590 --> 00:37:23.769

  were said on podcasts by other people about this

  00:37:23.769 --> 00:37:25.869

  event before it happened. And like everybody

  00:37:25.869 --> 00:37:27.829

  can speculate till the cows come home about how

  00:37:27.829 --> 00:37:30.590

  you could route set it the best. But again, I

  00:37:30.590 --> 00:37:31.989

  know there have been some like it's everyone's

  00:37:31.989 --> 00:37:33.429

  a critic. It's easy to be like, oh, I think the

  00:37:33.429 --> 00:37:36.360

  women's finished finals are too easy. The person

  00:37:36.360 --> 00:37:38.239

  that said they were too easy fell off the semi

  00:37:38.239 --> 00:37:43.539

  several times. And then regardless of that, I

  00:37:43.539 --> 00:37:44.980

  know what they mean. They wanted more separation.

  00:37:45.619 --> 00:37:47.739

  Given their performance and the qualifiers, we

  00:37:47.739 --> 00:37:49.420

  thought the final round was going to be okay.

  00:37:52.179 --> 00:37:55.059

  It just suddenly everybody was a little more

  00:37:55.059 --> 00:37:57.559

  on. It was a little bit cooler. They were a little

  00:37:57.559 --> 00:38:01.280

  more psyched. I mean, we did the hardest. version

  00:38:01.280 --> 00:38:04.280

  of those championship like this semi small and

  00:38:04.280 --> 00:38:06.079

  big final we did the hardest version of them

  00:38:06.079 --> 00:38:08.840

  that we had planned for with the wall being a

  00:38:08.840 --> 00:38:11.039

  little steeper and the hold and the harder orientation

  00:38:11.039 --> 00:38:14.139

  and blocked and it just didn't didn't matter

  00:38:14.139 --> 00:38:17.079

  which I mean it was still cool like there was

  00:38:17.079 --> 00:38:18.679

  some really hard rock climbing that happened

  00:38:18.679 --> 00:38:21.219

  and because those climbers are such good athletes

  00:38:21.219 --> 00:38:24.239

  and made it look really good people are like

  00:38:24.239 --> 00:38:26.280

  oh it was too easy but those climbs were hard

  00:38:26.280 --> 00:38:28.360

  we tested them extensively with some really strong

  00:38:28.360 --> 00:38:31.079

  climbers One of the questions that come in, do

  00:38:31.079 --> 00:38:32.579

  you think the setting for the women's side was

  00:38:32.579 --> 00:38:35.739

  too easy? I think it's always hard with the women's

  00:38:35.739 --> 00:38:40.019

  to have it properly calibrated. Part of my complaint

  00:38:40.019 --> 00:38:41.460

  when I was studying more of these events is we

  00:38:41.460 --> 00:38:43.480

  need more strong women and you need multiples

  00:38:43.480 --> 00:38:46.300

  of us and you need to let us do this part. Not

  00:38:46.300 --> 00:38:47.940

  that women can't set for men and men can't set

  00:38:47.940 --> 00:38:50.400

  for women, but I think what's wrong with letting

  00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:53.880

  some people specialize? Do I think it was too

  00:38:53.880 --> 00:38:57.519

  easy? I mean, again, like if you ran, you know.

  00:38:57.980 --> 00:39:04.139

  six or 20 girls through that climb it might have

  00:39:04.139 --> 00:39:06.440

  actually been perfect for that field so was it

  00:39:06.440 --> 00:39:09.440

  too easy for this format again like compared

  00:39:09.440 --> 00:39:12.380

  to how they did on the qualifier you thought

  00:39:12.380 --> 00:39:15.159

  it'd be appropriate quality one for example is

  00:39:15.159 --> 00:39:21.900

  quite hard for them um quality two was good but

  00:39:21.900 --> 00:39:24.739

  a little too fast But yeah, the setting team

  00:39:24.739 --> 00:39:26.440

  thought like, OK, we'll make the harder tweaks

  00:39:26.440 --> 00:39:28.860

  and we should be good. And so everybody was like

  00:39:28.860 --> 00:39:31.559

  pretty surprised, like with the women's small

  00:39:31.559 --> 00:39:34.760

  final, for example, the yellow boulder. The first

  00:39:34.760 --> 00:39:36.219

  move is like some crimps and you're supposed

  00:39:36.219 --> 00:39:38.159

  to hit a sloper and you basically just had to

  00:39:38.159 --> 00:39:40.079

  paddle to this like in cut that was blocked.

  00:39:40.539 --> 00:39:43.400

  And every tester had the same experience on it,

  00:39:43.440 --> 00:39:45.760

  which was like it was quite hard to stick that

  00:39:45.760 --> 00:39:47.639

  thing, especially not with both hands. And then,

  00:39:47.639 --> 00:39:51.659

  man, Annie Sanders just went kung. like she could

  00:39:51.659 --> 00:39:53.840

  have had a sandwich on it like it seems so much

  00:39:53.840 --> 00:39:56.219

  stickier and that was just not like not only

  00:39:56.219 --> 00:39:59.980

  was it um a bad sloper but it was actually sanded

  00:39:59.980 --> 00:40:02.880

  a little bit to make it worse so yeah but we

  00:40:02.880 --> 00:40:04.579

  were really worried about it being really hot

  00:40:04.579 --> 00:40:06.260

  at the venue because another thing that'll happen

  00:40:06.260 --> 00:40:08.139

  is stuff will test really well and then the venue

  00:40:08.139 --> 00:40:10.320

  is way too hot and then nobody sticks to anything

  00:40:10.320 --> 00:40:12.440

  and it looks terrible so we were worried about

  00:40:12.440 --> 00:40:14.690

  the venue being too hot We did plan for it to

  00:40:14.690 --> 00:40:17.829

  be hotter than where we were. And also the venue,

  00:40:17.929 --> 00:40:19.530

  we actually, they had the doors open all day.

  00:40:19.590 --> 00:40:21.750

  So it was quite cool in there. And they had the

  00:40:21.750 --> 00:40:23.789

  AC on to try to make it cooler for the athletes.

  00:40:24.250 --> 00:40:27.630

  And I think that the stage lighting wasn't as

  00:40:27.630 --> 00:40:29.929

  hot as like from being on stage. It definitely

  00:40:29.929 --> 00:40:32.969

  wasn't as hot as I remember previous stage lighting

  00:40:32.969 --> 00:40:35.429

  I've been in front of being. So I think a lot

  00:40:35.429 --> 00:40:37.710

  of elements kind of came together to make it

  00:40:37.710 --> 00:40:40.860

  like pretty good conditions up there. and the

  00:40:40.860 --> 00:40:42.659

  athletes were like with the exception of for

  00:40:42.659 --> 00:40:45.619

  some reason the men's quality the red one where

  00:40:45.619 --> 00:40:48.340

  they were just having trouble to start um everything

  00:40:48.340 --> 00:40:50.099

  else they were doing a pretty job of sticking

  00:40:50.099 --> 00:40:52.320

  to like a little better than expected and the

  00:40:52.320 --> 00:40:55.360

  women's semi or yeah women's semi -final as well

  00:40:55.360 --> 00:40:57.719

  the red one the first move was like some pockets

  00:40:57.719 --> 00:41:00.360

  and you hit a sloper volume and then you had

  00:41:00.360 --> 00:41:02.840

  to like shift out left and they were like really

  00:41:02.840 --> 00:41:04.780

  comfortable in that slopey volume and that was

  00:41:04.780 --> 00:41:06.199

  another one that was like people were really

  00:41:06.199 --> 00:41:09.039

  struggling to stick to it in the test facility

  00:41:09.039 --> 00:41:12.739

  so And it was cold in the test facility. Yeah.

  00:41:12.820 --> 00:41:15.539

  Like, so I don't know. We're not entirely sure

  00:41:15.539 --> 00:41:21.820

  what, why. There's theories. But, you know, it's

  00:41:21.820 --> 00:41:24.599

  just the athletes, too, like, were psyched. And

  00:41:24.599 --> 00:41:26.039

  they were in front of a big crowd. And there's

  00:41:26.039 --> 00:41:29.219

  a lot of money on the line. So, you know, you

  00:41:29.219 --> 00:41:31.559

  can account for that. But it's very common. I've

  00:41:31.559 --> 00:41:33.820

  seen a lot of over, people are saying, oh, the

  00:41:33.820 --> 00:41:35.480

  setting was undercooked for the women. And that's,

  00:41:35.480 --> 00:41:37.420

  I would completely argue with that. Undercooked

  00:41:37.420 --> 00:41:39.739

  suggests not enough effort was put in. it was

  00:41:39.739 --> 00:41:43.380

  overcooked too much effort was put in maybe maybe

  00:41:43.380 --> 00:41:46.980

  we needed to go a little easier um but also they

  00:41:46.980 --> 00:41:48.780

  were good boulders and i think it was just like

  00:41:48.780 --> 00:41:51.380

  a matter of luck to some degree and you could

  00:41:51.380 --> 00:41:54.400

  get that the other way too and we want them to

  00:41:54.400 --> 00:41:56.159

  be hard but if they're just way too hard it's

  00:41:56.159 --> 00:41:58.440

  no fun to watch either so i'm glad the women

  00:41:58.440 --> 00:42:01.340

  at least got to climb yeah you also mentioned

  00:42:01.340 --> 00:42:04.219

  like sanding the holds down still which i think

  00:42:04.219 --> 00:42:07.480

  i found interesting because I feel like there

  00:42:07.480 --> 00:42:10.099

  could be a case where people are like, oh, you

  00:42:10.099 --> 00:42:12.699

  sanded down the left side a little more than

  00:42:12.699 --> 00:42:14.420

  the right side. And so that's why I couldn't

  00:42:14.420 --> 00:42:17.500

  do it. So the thing that we did, because we were

  00:42:17.500 --> 00:42:21.260

  very aware of that, is we had Ian Powell, my

  00:42:21.260 --> 00:42:23.599

  partner, who's the, he's one of the, he's like,

  00:42:23.619 --> 00:42:25.719

  he's the best whole japer in the world. He can

  00:42:25.719 --> 00:42:28.440

  make anything. Like, he can make anything anybody

  00:42:28.440 --> 00:42:31.739

  makes. He can make anything he makes. He is a

  00:42:31.739 --> 00:42:34.989

  really... a big nerd about texture. And so the

  00:42:34.989 --> 00:42:39.250

  way that fiberglass and vacuum thermoform macros

  00:42:39.250 --> 00:42:41.170

  are made is that they're made and then they're

  00:42:41.170 --> 00:42:43.289

  textured. So it's called post -texturing, which

  00:42:43.289 --> 00:42:45.289

  means the texture is put on after. So every single

  00:42:45.289 --> 00:42:46.650

  one is going to be a little bit unique, right?

  00:42:47.809 --> 00:42:51.389

  So what he did was he used his, you know, he

  00:42:51.389 --> 00:42:56.090

  felt them and he did a very specific like swipe

  00:42:56.090 --> 00:42:58.889

  with the sandpaper with a certain pressure and

  00:42:58.889 --> 00:43:02.090

  felt. And so he did like two swipes on that hold

  00:43:02.090 --> 00:43:05.170

  and he wrote two swipes inside, you know, on

  00:43:05.170 --> 00:43:08.170

  the foam. And we took a picture and he made sure

  00:43:08.170 --> 00:43:12.750

  they felt the same. So he was like very, and

  00:43:12.750 --> 00:43:14.329

  then we brushed them and we chopped them. And

  00:43:14.329 --> 00:43:16.409

  we really tried hard to make sure that the climber

  00:43:16.409 --> 00:43:18.250

  experience was going to be the same on both of

  00:43:18.250 --> 00:43:20.730

  the holds. Because that was a huge concern and

  00:43:20.730 --> 00:43:21.829

  that was part of the reason we didn't want to

  00:43:21.829 --> 00:43:24.630

  modify them. But we felt strongly that that hold

  00:43:24.630 --> 00:43:29.679

  could really use like a slight change. We made

  00:43:29.679 --> 00:43:32.019

  it. And it's not uncommon at all for setters

  00:43:32.019 --> 00:43:34.039

  to stand holds at comps. It's just usually one

  00:43:34.039 --> 00:43:36.840

  copy. So it doesn't matter. Yeah. And you also

  00:43:36.840 --> 00:43:40.199

  mentioned, I guess, like about the route setting

  00:43:40.199 --> 00:43:43.179

  for the women that you think it could be nice

  00:43:43.179 --> 00:43:45.639

  to have some routes that are specialized in setting

  00:43:45.639 --> 00:43:51.199

  for women's versus men's comps. I guess, one,

  00:43:51.380 --> 00:43:56.380

  why would that be helpful? And why is it like

  00:43:56.380 --> 00:43:59.900

  so different setting for? men's versus women's

  00:43:59.900 --> 00:44:02.840

  and I guess like why does it seem so much harder

  00:44:02.840 --> 00:44:06.320

  to calibrate for the women's field? I think that

  00:44:06.320 --> 00:44:09.519

  female climbers are less understood by the majority

  00:44:09.519 --> 00:44:12.380

  of people setting these events. Please excuse

  00:44:12.380 --> 00:44:14.780

  this brief intermission, but if you're interested

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  in ad -free episodes and would like to unlock

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  one where Jackie talks about feedback from Colin

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  Duffy and what she would improve about the changeover

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  process, do consider helping support this podcast

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  liking, commenting, and sharing helps a great

  00:44:48.000 --> 00:44:50.880

  deal as well. Back to the show. And if there's

  00:44:50.880 --> 00:44:53.460

  a woman on the crew, it's usually one woman,

  00:44:53.579 --> 00:44:59.599

  and so that's one voice in five. I think if you're

  00:44:59.599 --> 00:45:02.280

  me, you just say what you think and you're perceived

  00:45:02.280 --> 00:45:06.320

  as too loud about it or something. And other

  00:45:06.320 --> 00:45:09.039

  women I know, some people that works for, I know

  00:45:09.039 --> 00:45:11.219

  women on the World Cup circuit who are also loud

  00:45:11.219 --> 00:45:13.179

  about it. I was just a little early, I think.

  00:45:13.360 --> 00:45:16.280

  But also some women are quieter about it. And

  00:45:16.280 --> 00:45:19.380

  then some women like it's nice to work for the

  00:45:19.380 --> 00:45:21.320

  crew. Like that's part of the reason we did Woman

  00:45:21.320 --> 00:45:22.699

  Up. We just wanted women to have the experience

  00:45:22.699 --> 00:45:24.940

  of working with other women because. A lot of

  00:45:24.940 --> 00:45:26.420

  times they realize they know a lot more than

  00:45:26.420 --> 00:45:27.780

  they think they know because they aren't really

  00:45:27.780 --> 00:45:30.559

  given a chance to like have their voice and also

  00:45:30.559 --> 00:45:33.159

  see what happens with what they thought. So,

  00:45:33.159 --> 00:45:37.559

  you know, and that's really important to calibrate

  00:45:37.559 --> 00:45:39.940

  how good your judgment is, is to see what happens

  00:45:39.940 --> 00:45:43.820

  when you get to try, you know, what you think

  00:45:43.820 --> 00:45:46.460

  should happen and see like, oh, so like I am

  00:45:46.460 --> 00:45:48.940

  the final word on a boulder problem where we

  00:45:48.940 --> 00:45:50.679

  do what I wanted to do. And then I watch the

  00:45:50.679 --> 00:45:52.539

  athletes on it. I can learn a ton from that.

  00:45:53.089 --> 00:45:55.769

  And ideally you do that in your gym with climbers

  00:45:55.769 --> 00:45:57.869

  every week. So you have a much better idea of

  00:45:57.869 --> 00:45:59.610

  like how different people are going to perform

  00:45:59.610 --> 00:46:02.130

  on the climb and you know, how it really is going

  00:46:02.130 --> 00:46:03.630

  to work for different body types. And then you

  00:46:03.630 --> 00:46:05.590

  understand more how to predict what could happen.

  00:46:05.630 --> 00:46:08.909

  And I think like with a comp, especially this

  00:46:08.909 --> 00:46:11.230

  one, they were just under so much pressure and

  00:46:11.230 --> 00:46:15.489

  there was so much going on that like they put

  00:46:15.489 --> 00:46:17.389

  a lot of time into the women's climbs as well.

  00:46:17.570 --> 00:46:23.179

  But I think having almost two teams would be

  00:46:23.179 --> 00:46:25.420

  cool. There's a team really focused on the women's

  00:46:25.420 --> 00:46:27.739

  event and team really focused on the men's because

  00:46:27.739 --> 00:46:30.199

  like PCL is here to promote like the women's

  00:46:30.199 --> 00:46:32.119

  event was the last event of the night. Like they're

  00:46:32.119 --> 00:46:33.719

  not trying to put the women in the background.

  00:46:34.099 --> 00:46:36.780

  And I want to make sure that we're giving the

  00:46:36.780 --> 00:46:41.900

  team enough resources to really, you know, address

  00:46:41.900 --> 00:46:45.199

  both fields. But I think that they tried to and

  00:46:45.199 --> 00:46:46.820

  I think they're experienced in doing so. And

  00:46:46.820 --> 00:46:48.900

  like it could have gone completely differently

  00:46:48.900 --> 00:46:52.670

  with just. the smallest of like changes in the

  00:46:52.670 --> 00:46:57.010

  athletes or the heat or people's personal feelings

  00:46:57.010 --> 00:46:59.769

  or yanya hitting a hole differently orian hitting

  00:46:59.769 --> 00:47:03.070

  it differently or you know there's just like

  00:47:03.070 --> 00:47:08.289

  you can't really second guess and people love

  00:47:08.289 --> 00:47:10.949

  to and it's fine but like there isn't a person

  00:47:10.949 --> 00:47:13.989

  in the world who's like if i had done that yeah

  00:47:13.989 --> 00:47:15.809

  they can say now i would do it differently but

  00:47:15.809 --> 00:47:18.269

  like there's not a person in the world that can

  00:47:18.269 --> 00:47:20.030

  tell you exactly how it's going to go. Like I've

  00:47:20.030 --> 00:47:21.769

  had, I've had boulders I've set where I'm like,

  00:47:21.829 --> 00:47:24.070

  I know the field and I'm pretty sure it's going

  00:47:24.070 --> 00:47:26.530

  to go like this and not like it. And it basically

  00:47:26.530 --> 00:47:28.510

  does, but you, you also need to be careful as

  00:47:28.510 --> 00:47:30.469

  a setter. Cause you know, I would never want

  00:47:30.469 --> 00:47:32.750

  to set, well, I'm going to set it like this.

  00:47:32.769 --> 00:47:34.929

  So only this person can win. So you have to really

  00:47:34.929 --> 00:47:37.489

  be like, okay, I need to set it in a way where

  00:47:37.489 --> 00:47:40.070

  the strongest, that strongest athlete of the

  00:47:40.070 --> 00:47:43.690

  day is going to win. So if it's Alex Puccio today

  00:47:43.690 --> 00:47:47.360

  and she climbs well, she will win. But if Nina

  00:47:47.360 --> 00:47:48.940

  Williams is having a good day and Alex is having

  00:47:48.940 --> 00:47:51.019

  a bad day, Nina could beat her. You know, and

  00:47:51.019 --> 00:47:55.820

  this is years ago. But, you know, or some other

  00:47:55.820 --> 00:47:58.420

  kid like that shows up to this women up comp

  00:47:58.420 --> 00:48:03.000

  is really on. They're going to, you know, come

  00:48:03.000 --> 00:48:04.719

  out here and give Brooke Rabatou a run for her

  00:48:04.719 --> 00:48:07.300

  money. And that'll happen, which is cool. So

  00:48:07.300 --> 00:48:10.059

  you want to make sure you're not like, especially

  00:48:10.059 --> 00:48:14.420

  with climbing like Ianya, you know, you could

  00:48:14.420 --> 00:48:17.519

  probably set moves. that only Yanya could do,

  00:48:17.599 --> 00:48:20.800

  but then like, why is anybody bothered to be

  00:48:20.800 --> 00:48:24.679

  there? You know? So it's, it's like extra hard

  00:48:24.679 --> 00:48:26.739

  because you want to try to set something that

  00:48:26.739 --> 00:48:29.260

  gives the athletes a chance to compete, which

  00:48:29.260 --> 00:48:32.760

  actually we had because, you know, Orien beat

  00:48:32.760 --> 00:48:34.280

  her and that wasn't something that, that was

  00:48:34.280 --> 00:48:35.800

  something that she had the opportunity to do

  00:48:35.800 --> 00:48:38.340

  if she climbed really well and she did, you know,

  00:48:38.340 --> 00:48:40.699

  and that's awesome. I think that the setters

  00:48:40.699 --> 00:48:42.500

  weren't predicting her to throw the heel and

  00:48:42.500 --> 00:48:44.380

  be able to use it as effectively as she did.

  00:48:44.909 --> 00:48:46.530

  But definitely, I think, like, you asked about

  00:48:46.530 --> 00:48:48.329

  what's the benefit of having all women's teams.

  00:48:50.150 --> 00:48:53.250

  Like, all women's teams, like, you're going to

  00:48:53.250 --> 00:48:56.989

  expect the heel. There's probably men that expect

  00:48:56.989 --> 00:48:58.690

  it, but, like, women especially are like, how

  00:48:58.690 --> 00:49:00.590

  can I get weight off of my arms? Like, I'm going

  00:49:00.590 --> 00:49:02.969

  to heel hook by my ear and pull it down to my,

  00:49:03.090 --> 00:49:06.730

  like, where my ankle is, you know. I once saw

  00:49:06.730 --> 00:49:08.969

  Megan Mascarenas when she was winning World Cups.

  00:49:09.369 --> 00:49:11.329

  She was at one of our comps at the spot and she

  00:49:11.329 --> 00:49:13.650

  had two slopers on like an overhang, like here

  00:49:13.650 --> 00:49:17.050

  and here, like a bulgy overhang. She put a heel,

  00:49:17.210 --> 00:49:19.550

  she like shifted her hand up, put her heel next

  00:49:19.550 --> 00:49:21.650

  to that one, shifted her other hand up, put her

  00:49:21.650 --> 00:49:23.690

  other heel on. So she was literally just like

  00:49:23.690 --> 00:49:26.369

  both heels and both hands. And then she pulled

  00:49:26.369 --> 00:49:30.010

  up, engaged her heels and like, it was crazy.

  00:49:32.389 --> 00:49:34.250

  Like for women, if you give them a good foot,

  00:49:34.389 --> 00:49:35.849

  I mean, when I was younger, I felt like this

  00:49:35.849 --> 00:49:37.590

  too. If you give them a good foot, they can step

  00:49:37.590 --> 00:49:40.550

  on it, pull it in and push it down and then go

  00:49:40.550 --> 00:49:42.309

  anywhere off of it. And like part of the other

  00:49:42.309 --> 00:49:44.230

  thing I think that happened with women's yellow,

  00:49:44.429 --> 00:49:48.389

  women's small final is that the foot was a little

  00:49:48.389 --> 00:49:49.949

  too good and they were too comfortable on it.

  00:49:50.690 --> 00:49:52.889

  We needed to be a little more insecure. So we

  00:49:52.889 --> 00:49:55.929

  gave them a good foot because the hand had been

  00:49:55.929 --> 00:50:00.809

  so bad. because the hand was magically slumped

  00:50:00.809 --> 00:50:03.369

  somehow better in the venue, the foot could have

  00:50:03.369 --> 00:50:05.150

  been a little worse. You know, that's like the

  00:50:05.150 --> 00:50:06.869

  kind of thing you'd say in retrospect. But before

  00:50:06.869 --> 00:50:08.929

  the event, like they moved that foot like eight

  00:50:08.929 --> 00:50:12.650

  times. Like it wasn't, you know, there was some

  00:50:12.650 --> 00:50:18.050

  on the floor changes that happened. Very, like

  00:50:18.050 --> 00:50:20.110

  we had pre -planned some things we could change

  00:50:20.110 --> 00:50:21.849

  because we had to, because everything had to

  00:50:21.849 --> 00:50:24.210

  be duplicated and marked and then went with the

  00:50:24.210 --> 00:50:27.429

  harder version of it. And that happened. It's

  00:50:27.429 --> 00:50:31.019

  just always. using, again, your best judgment.

  00:50:31.159 --> 00:50:32.739

  And then like, here's another factor. Like the

  00:50:32.739 --> 00:50:35.920

  athletes did a really intense seating round event

  00:50:35.920 --> 00:50:39.300

  like the day before. So that comp was, looked

  00:50:39.300 --> 00:50:41.400

  really hard and it was cool. And the question

  00:50:41.400 --> 00:50:44.239

  is, are they going to be tired from that? Or

  00:50:44.239 --> 00:50:46.400

  like specifically tired? Like what if that seating

  00:50:46.400 --> 00:50:49.000

  round had like two boulders or even one that

  00:50:49.000 --> 00:50:52.199

  had a crazy left shoulder move and it was hard

  00:50:52.199 --> 00:50:53.840

  at the top. So they did it like eight times and

  00:50:53.840 --> 00:50:55.519

  now like the entire women's field, their left

  00:50:55.519 --> 00:50:58.869

  shoulder is just totally flagged, you know? and

  00:50:58.869 --> 00:51:00.730

  we've set a left -shouldery thing, and now they

  00:51:00.730 --> 00:51:02.630

  can't do it because they're just so tired from

  00:51:02.630 --> 00:51:05.309

  the day before. It's possible. Stuff like that

  00:51:05.309 --> 00:51:07.289

  can definitely happen. So there's all these factors

  00:51:07.289 --> 00:51:10.690

  that you have to try to consider, predict, and

  00:51:10.690 --> 00:51:14.110

  plan for, and then it's still like... I mean,

  00:51:14.130 --> 00:51:15.789

  I don't know. I've been doing this for 28 years,

  00:51:15.869 --> 00:51:19.409

  and some of it's just always luck. Are there

  00:51:19.409 --> 00:51:21.809

  any other boulders from the comp that stood out

  00:51:21.809 --> 00:51:24.369

  to you or you felt like you learned a lot from?

  00:51:24.730 --> 00:51:26.969

  I think that the format, like on the surface,

  00:51:27.070 --> 00:51:28.269

  you're like, oh, yeah, that'd be easy. And then

  00:51:28.269 --> 00:51:29.510

  when you start thinking about it, you can, like

  00:51:29.510 --> 00:51:31.289

  I said, get your brain pretty twisted up. And

  00:51:31.289 --> 00:51:32.829

  then when you start setting it, you start to

  00:51:32.829 --> 00:51:35.690

  understand more about it. So I think every event

  00:51:35.690 --> 00:51:38.030

  we do of this, we're going to learn from and

  00:51:38.030 --> 00:51:41.989

  be able to like really dial in how to be setting

  00:51:41.989 --> 00:51:44.110

  for this event and planning for it and what we

  00:51:44.110 --> 00:51:46.510

  should be doing. Like like some people, somebody's

  00:51:46.510 --> 00:51:48.250

  like, oh, the walls are too small. And like the

  00:51:48.250 --> 00:51:50.329

  walls were literally the largest walls we could

  00:51:50.329 --> 00:51:54.059

  legally have that fit in the venue. Like we could

  00:51:54.059 --> 00:51:56.219

  not have made the walls any bigger. And they

  00:51:56.219 --> 00:51:58.219

  adjusted so we could change the angle. Didn't

  00:51:58.219 --> 00:52:00.460

  have any huge volumes on them, but with the changeover

  00:52:00.460 --> 00:52:03.619

  on the field, I don't really have much experience

  00:52:03.619 --> 00:52:05.880

  with settings. So I guess what's the difficulty

  00:52:05.880 --> 00:52:08.400

  with like having a huge volume and bringing it

  00:52:08.400 --> 00:52:10.639

  around? Just like the heaviness or is there more

  00:52:10.639 --> 00:52:12.920

  to it? It's just heavy. It's unwieldy. We're

  00:52:12.920 --> 00:52:15.800

  on like rented ladders. The ladders were insecure.

  00:52:16.019 --> 00:52:17.900

  There's people walking around the feet of them

  00:52:17.900 --> 00:52:20.380

  and we wanted to have everybody be as... you

  00:52:20.380 --> 00:52:22.659

  know, safe and appropriate work environment as

  00:52:22.659 --> 00:52:24.380

  possible on stage. So like everybody has safety

  00:52:24.380 --> 00:52:28.059

  glasses, everybody had, you know, the right equipment

  00:52:28.059 --> 00:52:30.539

  to the job they were doing. And certainly if

  00:52:30.539 --> 00:52:32.440

  we were going to do something like big like that,

  00:52:32.480 --> 00:52:34.199

  we would need like a different kind of ladder

  00:52:34.199 --> 00:52:36.440

  and we would need like multiple people on it

  00:52:36.440 --> 00:52:38.460

  and no one else doing anything else. So you have

  00:52:38.460 --> 00:52:40.139

  to slow down a little bit to be able to do that

  00:52:40.139 --> 00:52:44.099

  in that area. So it's not undoable at all. It's

  00:52:44.099 --> 00:52:46.460

  just another factor. Okay. We were trying to

  00:52:46.460 --> 00:52:48.619

  do changeover in 10 minutes or less. How long

  00:52:48.619 --> 00:52:50.860

  did it end up taking? I didn't time him for this,

  00:52:50.920 --> 00:52:53.179

  but it was pretty close. But we did a lot of

  00:52:53.179 --> 00:52:54.880

  rehearsals because the changeover team, besides

  00:52:54.880 --> 00:52:57.760

  the setting team, had a couple of like key setters

  00:52:57.760 --> 00:53:01.579

  come in, one from Italy and one from Singapore.

  00:53:02.539 --> 00:53:04.519

  And then we had some people from London Climbing

  00:53:04.519 --> 00:53:06.239

  Center and then the rest of the crew were from

  00:53:06.239 --> 00:53:09.460

  City Bouldering partnered with PCL to provide

  00:53:09.460 --> 00:53:12.559

  changeover crew. But I think a lot of them aren't

  00:53:12.559 --> 00:53:15.059

  like day -to -day route setters. And they were

  00:53:15.059 --> 00:53:17.139

  super like enthusiastic folks. They were great.

  00:53:17.610 --> 00:53:19.309

  I think they do some wall maintenance work and

  00:53:19.309 --> 00:53:21.329

  stuff. So they weren't unfamiliar with the situation,

  00:53:21.469 --> 00:53:24.550

  but it definitely like, it was a big ask for

  00:53:24.550 --> 00:53:27.349

  everybody to come in and like, they came up here

  00:53:27.349 --> 00:53:31.369

  for a day and we spent a day doing like changeovers

  00:53:31.369 --> 00:53:35.090

  because we had 11 boulder problems. So most walls

  00:53:35.090 --> 00:53:38.349

  had three rotations and one wall had four and,

  00:53:38.449 --> 00:53:41.949

  or two walls had four. And it was just like.

  00:53:42.629 --> 00:53:44.250

  strip everything, put everything, you know, take

  00:53:44.250 --> 00:53:45.469

  everything down, put everything up, take everything

  00:53:45.469 --> 00:53:47.070

  down, put everything down. People had to know

  00:53:47.070 --> 00:53:48.769

  where the holds went on the wall. They had to

  00:53:48.769 --> 00:53:50.969

  know which holds were in the set so we didn't

  00:53:50.969 --> 00:53:53.630

  lose things. We had to have somebody checking

  00:53:53.630 --> 00:53:56.909

  to make sure all the attachment points were in

  00:53:56.909 --> 00:53:59.170

  and no holds had been missed on each climb every

  00:53:59.170 --> 00:54:01.989

  time. We were showing them how to put the screws

  00:54:01.989 --> 00:54:05.309

  in the same hole. We actually used smaller screws

  00:54:05.309 --> 00:54:07.969

  in testing to make sure that we didn't wear the

  00:54:07.969 --> 00:54:09.929

  wall up too much because we were putting holes

  00:54:09.929 --> 00:54:12.050

  exactly in the same place over and over again.

  00:54:12.449 --> 00:54:16.309

  True. I didn't think about that. We probably

  00:54:16.309 --> 00:54:20.230

  put these things on and off the wall three or

  00:54:20.230 --> 00:54:22.230

  four or five times the first day, and then we

  00:54:22.230 --> 00:54:24.909

  did rehearsals twice on the day of the event,

  00:54:24.929 --> 00:54:26.670

  too, in the morning and the second session in

  00:54:26.670 --> 00:54:30.840

  the afternoon. We used bigger screws on the day

  00:54:30.840 --> 00:54:33.719

  of the event or for the event to make sure that

  00:54:33.719 --> 00:54:35.639

  the attachments were secure. And we added a few

  00:54:35.639 --> 00:54:38.360

  points on a few holds as well just to make sure

  00:54:38.360 --> 00:54:40.880

  there was no wiggle for the athletes. How many

  00:54:40.880 --> 00:54:42.940

  times can you screw the same thing into the same

  00:54:42.940 --> 00:54:46.280

  hole before it gets... Yeah, it depends. If you

  00:54:46.280 --> 00:54:50.019

  get perfectly in the right hole, if it goes in

  00:54:50.019 --> 00:54:54.360

  the exactly right way, it's really strong. And

  00:54:54.360 --> 00:54:55.719

  what's pretty good, I mean, it was just like

  00:54:55.719 --> 00:54:57.219

  inch thick plywood. You could put stuff in and

  00:54:57.219 --> 00:54:59.800

  out of it a bit, but... definitely like if you

  00:54:59.800 --> 00:55:01.679

  overdo it you could shred a hole also and then

  00:55:01.679 --> 00:55:03.039

  you have a shredded hole and you have to do something

  00:55:03.039 --> 00:55:06.059

  about that so um and then we also had a special

  00:55:06.059 --> 00:55:09.260

  camera called blocky that we were moving around

  00:55:09.260 --> 00:55:11.059

  so like i was out on the stage for changeover

  00:55:11.059 --> 00:55:15.019

  moving blocky and that was me and then the flow

  00:55:15.019 --> 00:55:18.900

  from red bull was behind the wall and then we

  00:55:18.900 --> 00:55:20.619

  would pass like the attachments back and forth

  00:55:20.619 --> 00:55:22.840

  and i would like plug blocky into its new position

  00:55:22.840 --> 00:55:25.420

  so we had like pre -placed blocky and mark blocky

  00:55:25.420 --> 00:55:27.139

  on the wall mark blocky on the back of the wall

  00:55:27.139 --> 00:55:29.099

  and then flow was climbing around back there

  00:55:29.099 --> 00:55:31.340

  and i was you know juggling on the front end

  00:55:31.340 --> 00:55:33.360

  trying not to get in the way that people stripping

  00:55:33.360 --> 00:55:36.019

  and setting too much and um but there's some

  00:55:36.019 --> 00:55:37.980

  really cool shots in the live feed from blocky

  00:55:37.980 --> 00:55:40.440

  that you'll see like really up close on the climbers

  00:55:40.440 --> 00:55:45.019

  and then what was the I guess if there was any

  00:55:45.019 --> 00:55:48.019

  reasoning or thought behind not having like a

  00:55:48.019 --> 00:55:51.199

  slab boulder. So we had like a five degree overhanging

  00:55:51.199 --> 00:55:53.599

  wall, which we called the American slab. And

  00:55:53.599 --> 00:55:55.880

  that was qualifier three, which didn't get used

  00:55:55.880 --> 00:55:58.059

  in the end because we separated everybody in

  00:55:58.059 --> 00:56:02.300

  the first two qualifiers. Yeah, it was actually

  00:56:02.300 --> 00:56:03.900

  like we had planned to have a slab. And then,

  00:56:03.900 --> 00:56:05.800

  you know, Dannon famously said to Yannick that

  00:56:05.800 --> 00:56:07.780

  there would be no slab. Or Yannick said that

  00:56:07.780 --> 00:56:11.539

  Dannon said there would be no slab. Which wasn't

  00:56:11.539 --> 00:56:14.059

  a reason not to do it. But we did want Yannick

  00:56:14.059 --> 00:56:18.820

  to be happy. No, we talked about it. And the

  00:56:18.820 --> 00:56:20.760

  setting team wanted to try it without a slab.

  00:56:20.980 --> 00:56:24.559

  And so we said, all right. That said, we had

  00:56:24.559 --> 00:56:27.019

  had a slab in the previous iteration test events.

  00:56:27.320 --> 00:56:29.480

  And it was usually qualifier three. And it was

  00:56:29.480 --> 00:56:31.280

  a shared qualifier. So men and women on the same

  00:56:31.280 --> 00:56:35.099

  climb. And it was very cool. There are some women

  00:56:35.099 --> 00:56:36.840

  that feel like it's not really cool to use a

  00:56:36.840 --> 00:56:38.619

  slab for the shared climb because like, of course,

  00:56:38.639 --> 00:56:41.119

  women can climb slab. But it is cool because

  00:56:41.119 --> 00:56:44.179

  you see you get these athletes like performing

  00:56:44.179 --> 00:56:46.659

  differently on the same climb. And like slabs

  00:56:46.659 --> 00:56:48.679

  cool because you have to hurry up, but not hurry

  00:56:48.679 --> 00:56:50.320

  up too much. You'll fall off because that's how

  00:56:50.320 --> 00:56:52.739

  slab climbing is. And so it actually is great

  00:56:52.739 --> 00:56:54.239

  for this type of event. We've been discussing

  00:56:54.239 --> 00:56:57.079

  that a lot as well for next iteration. Were you

  00:56:57.079 --> 00:56:59.280

  bummed that you guys said the extra boulders

  00:56:59.280 --> 00:57:01.480

  that never got touched? Oh, yeah, for sure. One

  00:57:01.480 --> 00:57:03.380

  of those was another Matt Birch boulder. And

  00:57:03.380 --> 00:57:05.320

  I think Matt's like a really interesting setter.

  00:57:05.340 --> 00:57:06.739

  So I would have liked to see the athletes on

  00:57:06.739 --> 00:57:08.980

  it. The yellow qualifier three. That was the

  00:57:08.980 --> 00:57:12.519

  only one that didn't get touched. But yeah, and

  00:57:12.519 --> 00:57:14.079

  actually the audience expressed that they were

  00:57:14.079 --> 00:57:15.820

  bummed, too. It was like teasing them to show

  00:57:15.820 --> 00:57:17.639

  them a boulder that no one climbed. And I was

  00:57:17.639 --> 00:57:19.239

  bummed, too, because like one of the sponsors,

  00:57:19.500 --> 00:57:21.719

  Absolute, their holds arrived super late. So

  00:57:21.719 --> 00:57:23.800

  we put them on that boulder at the beginning

  00:57:23.800 --> 00:57:26.599

  and end because everything was like done, basically.

  00:57:26.639 --> 00:57:30.329

  But Absolute produced a lot of our. macros for

  00:57:30.329 --> 00:57:31.949

  a bunch of the brands so we wanted to make sure

  00:57:31.949 --> 00:57:34.369

  we included them so we got them on the wall just

  00:57:34.369 --> 00:57:36.590

  a little late and they definitely stand out the

  00:57:36.590 --> 00:57:39.329

  asteroids are like these cool like asteroid looking

  00:57:39.329 --> 00:57:41.550

  things um and i think people wanted to climb

  00:57:41.550 --> 00:57:43.210

  on them and see people climb on them and that

  00:57:43.210 --> 00:57:46.630

  didn't didn't happen um and also i think that

  00:57:46.630 --> 00:57:48.309

  boulder was going to be really fun to watch so

  00:57:48.309 --> 00:57:51.349

  that was a shame for us and for the athletes

  00:57:51.349 --> 00:57:54.909

  and for the the field i think the uh the spectators

  00:57:54.909 --> 00:57:59.670

  but that's you know another thing like Basically,

  00:57:59.789 --> 00:58:01.670

  all the feedback people have, we're interested

  00:58:01.670 --> 00:58:03.530

  in it and we're definitely discussing because

  00:58:03.530 --> 00:58:06.269

  on the whole, we're really happy with how everything

  00:58:06.269 --> 00:58:09.070

  went. It was a super awesome event. It was visually

  00:58:09.070 --> 00:58:12.630

  just so different to me. Being in the venue with

  00:58:12.630 --> 00:58:16.090

  all the people and the professional production

  00:58:16.090 --> 00:58:17.809

  that Red Bull did was just really cool to be

  00:58:17.809 --> 00:58:20.869

  a part of. But there's always room for improvement

  00:58:20.869 --> 00:58:23.170

  and certainly there's a lot of areas we can identify

  00:58:23.170 --> 00:58:26.269

  that we want to tweak to just see what else we

  00:58:26.269 --> 00:58:29.119

  can do also. Is there anything you wish the athletes

  00:58:29.119 --> 00:58:31.400

  did differently on the boulders? Like you didn't

  00:58:31.400 --> 00:58:34.599

  expect them to climb the way they did? I think

  00:58:34.599 --> 00:58:36.699

  qualifiers went pretty well besides like it would

  00:58:36.699 --> 00:58:39.760

  have been nice to. Yeah. OK, so here's something.

  00:58:39.900 --> 00:58:42.159

  When I rewatched it, I noticed a lot of times

  00:58:42.159 --> 00:58:44.000

  the first athlete that was like kind of ahead,

  00:58:44.239 --> 00:58:46.139

  they like would make a mistake and fall off and

  00:58:46.139 --> 00:58:49.340

  then they wouldn't get back on. And like maybe

  00:58:49.340 --> 00:58:51.199

  they felt like they had no chance, but like I

  00:58:51.199 --> 00:58:53.519

  think part of this event for athletes is going

  00:58:53.519 --> 00:58:55.780

  to be figuring out like. it might be worth it

  00:58:55.780 --> 00:58:58.099

  to get back on because A, you might have a chance.

  00:58:58.260 --> 00:59:00.840

  And B, you getting on might stress the other

  00:59:00.840 --> 00:59:02.880

  person out and create another chance for you

  00:59:02.880 --> 00:59:06.900

  because they actually might fall off. So I think

  00:59:06.900 --> 00:59:10.699

  the athletes learning how to compete best in

  00:59:10.699 --> 00:59:13.860

  this format could be super interesting. And there's

  00:59:13.860 --> 00:59:16.659

  a lot of room for that. And it may not be everybody's

  00:59:16.659 --> 00:59:18.780

  cup of tea. And other people may really enjoy,

  00:59:18.900 --> 00:59:20.719

  like one of the things I really enjoyed was the

  00:59:20.719 --> 00:59:22.659

  athletes also talking even on the mat during

  00:59:22.659 --> 00:59:24.400

  the boulder, like what they were going to do.

  00:59:25.199 --> 00:59:27.260

  I thought that kind of camaraderie was like really

  00:59:27.260 --> 00:59:31.360

  fun to see. Because, you know, if you're sessioning

  00:59:31.360 --> 00:59:33.340

  with your friends, you watch your friends sometimes

  00:59:33.340 --> 00:59:35.340

  beat you on a climb or you beat them on a climb,

  00:59:35.360 --> 00:59:37.420

  but it's really fun still. It's fun for you to

  00:59:37.420 --> 00:59:38.960

  talk about what to do together. It's fun to watch

  00:59:38.960 --> 00:59:40.880

  them try. It's fun to think, oh, maybe I could

  00:59:40.880 --> 00:59:43.710

  do it. It's fun to do it yourself. getting to

  00:59:43.710 --> 00:59:45.730

  see that with the athletes like in the warm -up

  00:59:45.730 --> 00:59:47.809

  zone and then later on the stage I think it was

  00:59:47.809 --> 00:59:50.190

  a really neat part of PCL yeah I mean I guess

  00:59:50.190 --> 00:59:53.230

  partially it could be that they needed to rest

  00:59:53.230 --> 00:59:56.650

  after falling off but yeah I don't know like

  00:59:56.650 --> 00:59:59.429

  how much pressure plays into the into the whole

  00:59:59.429 --> 01:00:02.199

  thing as someone who wasn't up there. No, for

  01:00:02.199 --> 01:00:04.360

  sure. And another pro climber is telling me is

  01:00:04.360 --> 01:00:06.320

  she thought that part of the thing is that they

  01:00:06.320 --> 01:00:08.079

  do need to rest. And if we made the climbs much

  01:00:08.079 --> 01:00:10.360

  harder, we had to give them more time because

  01:00:10.360 --> 01:00:12.280

  they need to rest more to have a chance. Because

  01:00:12.280 --> 01:00:13.739

  like, why would they jump back on if they're

  01:00:13.739 --> 01:00:15.599

  going to just flag themselves in the first few

  01:00:15.599 --> 01:00:17.800

  moves and then not be able to even do the top

  01:00:17.800 --> 01:00:20.619

  if they get there, which is true. So then does

  01:00:20.619 --> 01:00:24.679

  the format support people watching them for six

  01:00:24.679 --> 01:00:28.059

  or eight minutes instead of five? And them resting

  01:00:28.059 --> 01:00:31.000

  on the stage, even if they're both resting. Do

  01:00:31.000 --> 01:00:33.300

  people want to watch that? So there's a lot of

  01:00:33.300 --> 01:00:34.840

  questions. Again, it's really easy to criticize

  01:00:34.840 --> 01:00:36.619

  and go, oh, she's speed bouldering. But like

  01:00:36.619 --> 01:00:38.980

  those climbs were hard and those athletes are

  01:00:38.980 --> 01:00:42.000

  amazing. And like the fact that they were motivated

  01:00:42.000 --> 01:00:46.820

  to race each other is, you know, it's always

  01:00:46.820 --> 01:00:49.159

  going to be a little bit of a race if it's even

  01:00:49.159 --> 01:00:51.539

  if it's every single move is impossible. Like

  01:00:51.539 --> 01:00:53.159

  they're going to still be trying to beat each

  01:00:53.159 --> 01:00:56.599

  other to the highest. move first you know um

  01:00:56.599 --> 01:01:00.059

  i think that's okay like i don't it's not the

  01:01:00.059 --> 01:01:01.440

  same speed climbing where it's the same route

  01:01:01.440 --> 01:01:04.739

  over and over again it's like being able to adapt

  01:01:04.739 --> 01:01:07.099

  to different movements and holds you've never

  01:01:07.099 --> 01:01:09.440

  seen before some of which were on these climbs

  01:01:09.440 --> 01:01:12.019

  and a short period of time is like shows a lot

  01:01:12.019 --> 01:01:14.079

  of athletic skill and adaptability and i think

  01:01:14.079 --> 01:01:16.260

  that's also really interesting to to test and

  01:01:16.260 --> 01:01:19.039

  see happening i don't know how you would fix

  01:01:19.039 --> 01:01:20.920

  that maybe you would need to like brief the athletes

  01:01:20.920 --> 01:01:23.719

  beforehand that it's It sucks when they rest.

  01:01:24.559 --> 01:01:26.420

  No, I mean, the thing is, like you said, like,

  01:01:26.440 --> 01:01:28.739

  if it's hard, like, people want too many things.

  01:01:28.880 --> 01:01:30.980

  Like, we want really good, really hard, extremely

  01:01:30.980 --> 01:01:33.300

  difficult bouldering. We also want them to be

  01:01:33.300 --> 01:01:35.820

  able to solve these climbs in four minutes. We

  01:01:35.820 --> 01:01:37.480

  also want to see tops. We also don't want it

  01:01:37.480 --> 01:01:40.300

  to be easy. So it's like, okay, if it's too hard,

  01:01:40.519 --> 01:01:42.199

  there's just going to be a high point, which

  01:01:42.199 --> 01:01:44.179

  is okay. Like, the men's final almost ended with

  01:01:44.179 --> 01:01:46.139

  a high point, and that was okay. Or actually,

  01:01:46.199 --> 01:01:48.079

  technically it did, because Max climbed the end

  01:01:48.079 --> 01:01:49.460

  of it wrong, but it didn't matter because he'd

  01:01:49.460 --> 01:01:54.750

  already won. But what do people actually want

  01:01:54.750 --> 01:01:58.590

  to see? Yes, it's fun to watch people battle

  01:01:58.590 --> 01:02:00.789

  it out on something really hard, but people still

  01:02:00.789 --> 01:02:02.510

  like to see a top. They like to see somebody

  01:02:02.510 --> 01:02:05.170

  swinging from something. They like to see Toby

  01:02:05.170 --> 01:02:08.349

  and Meji both out sideways, flat out catching

  01:02:08.349 --> 01:02:11.110

  something with their second hand. It's very cool.

  01:02:12.070 --> 01:02:16.389

  I love what Max did, and I want to take away

  01:02:16.389 --> 01:02:19.679

  from that, but I also wish Colin had stuck. men's

  01:02:19.679 --> 01:02:21.659

  big final like twist move because he basically

  01:02:21.659 --> 01:02:23.219

  did stick it but then when he was swinging back

  01:02:23.219 --> 01:02:25.739

  instead of pushing more he went to reach over

  01:02:25.739 --> 01:02:27.460

  and realized that was a bad idea and it was too

  01:02:27.460 --> 01:02:29.900

  late you know and uh but that move was so cool

  01:02:29.900 --> 01:02:31.900

  i mean his level of commitment like we have a

  01:02:31.900 --> 01:02:34.119

  picture of him where he's like like feeder up

  01:02:34.119 --> 01:02:37.619

  here kind of sideways and i just um i enjoy like

  01:02:37.619 --> 01:02:41.400

  that level of athleticism because certainly when

  01:02:41.400 --> 01:02:44.519

  i was especially when i was setting more for

  01:02:44.519 --> 01:02:47.659

  for comps but um when i was climbing the best

  01:02:47.659 --> 01:02:49.969

  i ever climbed People just weren't doing a whole

  01:02:49.969 --> 01:02:51.329

  lot of that. You know, you'd occasionally do

  01:02:51.329 --> 01:02:54.349

  a big move outside, but like it was not like

  01:02:54.349 --> 01:02:57.150

  it is now. Like Colin's expected to land on his

  01:02:57.150 --> 01:02:59.789

  back and he's fine with it, you know, and that

  01:02:59.789 --> 01:03:02.929

  like we all grew up like you're not trying to

  01:03:02.929 --> 01:03:06.269

  land on your back, you know, or anything else,

  01:03:06.269 --> 01:03:09.239

  if you can help it. But, you know, the generation

  01:03:09.239 --> 01:03:11.079

  before us, like they're getting both of their

  01:03:11.079 --> 01:03:12.920

  hips and their knees and their ankles replaced

  01:03:12.920 --> 01:03:15.119

  because they or the ankles probably aren't replaced,

  01:03:15.239 --> 01:03:18.260

  but worked on because they fell on a piece of

  01:03:18.260 --> 01:03:22.239

  carpet on the ground for years. Yeah. So we're

  01:03:22.239 --> 01:03:23.920

  the crash pad generation, but it's still a little

  01:03:23.920 --> 01:03:25.940

  different than the gym generation in terms of

  01:03:25.940 --> 01:03:29.880

  like the mentality. So let's get into some of

  01:03:29.880 --> 01:03:32.400

  the grab bag audience questions that came through.

  01:03:32.780 --> 01:03:36.039

  Oh, sure. This is from Madeline Huang. How did

  01:03:36.039 --> 01:03:37.880

  you know the climb was the right difficulty?

  01:03:38.059 --> 01:03:41.260

  It seems harder to gauge than a World Cup. Yeah,

  01:03:41.280 --> 01:03:42.679

  definitely. I think it's harder to gauge than

  01:03:42.679 --> 01:03:44.960

  a World Cup because you have so many climbers

  01:03:44.960 --> 01:03:46.820

  in the World Cup you can get away with a little

  01:03:46.820 --> 01:03:48.980

  bit more because you're going to get such a rate.

  01:03:49.059 --> 01:03:52.300

  You should get a bigger field of performance

  01:03:52.300 --> 01:03:57.960

  from a bigger field of climbers. Yeah, so again,

  01:03:58.059 --> 01:04:00.800

  it's educated guessing. And that sounds worse

  01:04:00.800 --> 01:04:04.019

  than it is. You use all the skills and experience

  01:04:04.019 --> 01:04:08.179

  you have to do your best to predict what performance

  01:04:08.179 --> 01:04:10.579

  from a field would be on a certain move or climb

  01:04:10.579 --> 01:04:16.500

  or series of moves. And based on that, you decide

  01:04:16.500 --> 01:04:20.139

  this climb will be good or this climb is not

  01:04:20.139 --> 01:04:21.659

  good. And if it's not good, you change it until

  01:04:21.659 --> 01:04:23.780

  you think it will be good. Next one from Smore.

  01:04:24.829 --> 01:04:27.349

  Do you think the format made the setting matter

  01:04:27.349 --> 01:04:30.429

  more than a typical comp? I mean, yeah, probably.

  01:04:30.530 --> 01:04:35.349

  It came down to two of the best climbers in the

  01:04:35.349 --> 01:04:42.730

  world head -to -head in one boulder. The walls

  01:04:42.730 --> 01:04:44.289

  were as big as they could be. We only had so

  01:04:44.289 --> 01:04:50.110

  much sideways room per wall. The athletes are

  01:04:50.110 --> 01:04:53.829

  amazing. walls we could have made the wall steeper

  01:04:53.829 --> 01:04:55.809

  for sure and maybe we should have for the women

  01:04:55.809 --> 01:05:00.150

  even steeper than it was um i really like you

  01:05:00.150 --> 01:05:02.969

  know we we talked about and roman uh yanya's

  01:05:02.969 --> 01:05:06.570

  coach suggested um you know a feel a format where

  01:05:06.570 --> 01:05:08.949

  the wall actually gets steeper if they both flash

  01:05:08.949 --> 01:05:12.690

  um or you know we also thought it was starting

  01:05:12.690 --> 01:05:14.550

  steep and making it less steep if no one gets

  01:05:14.550 --> 01:05:17.570

  anywhere like they would reclime it yeah same

  01:05:17.570 --> 01:05:19.829

  boulder So like, it's like, say we do like a

  01:05:19.829 --> 01:05:21.949

  minute or two minutes at 40 degrees and no one

  01:05:21.949 --> 01:05:23.710

  gets anywhere. So then we move it back to 35,

  01:05:24.050 --> 01:05:26.170

  you know, because that can make a huge difference.

  01:05:26.230 --> 01:05:29.690

  Or we move it back one degree every minute. Or,

  01:05:29.710 --> 01:05:31.409

  you know, there's like different ways we need

  01:05:31.409 --> 01:05:34.230

  to test some versions of this. But the wall angle

  01:05:34.230 --> 01:05:36.409

  change makes a huge difference. And it's like

  01:05:36.409 --> 01:05:40.369

  pretty cool to experiment with. And the athlete

  01:05:40.369 --> 01:05:41.969

  would have the benefit of learning the boulder

  01:05:41.969 --> 01:05:44.949

  and then still having to do it under harder circumstances.

  01:05:45.670 --> 01:05:48.829

  So you could have like a... flash battle almost

  01:05:48.829 --> 01:05:50.710

  where you're like yeah okay you guys are gonna

  01:05:50.710 --> 01:05:52.989

  flash this at 20 degrees but we're gonna keep

  01:05:52.989 --> 01:05:55.449

  making it five degrees steeper every minute and

  01:05:55.449 --> 01:05:57.369

  you have to keep beating the other person up

  01:05:57.369 --> 01:05:58.690

  that kind of thing and maybe that's a different

  01:05:58.690 --> 01:06:02.829

  format but we definitely um have thought about

  01:06:02.829 --> 01:06:06.849

  different ways to modify difficulty how did you

  01:06:06.849 --> 01:06:10.690

  end up deciding on like the um the degrees that

  01:06:10.690 --> 01:06:13.489

  were used in the comp uh just from forerunning

  01:06:14.190 --> 01:06:16.889

  like what great what angle we thought we wanted

  01:06:16.889 --> 01:06:18.210

  to have the walls change which they actually

  01:06:18.210 --> 01:06:19.750

  did between each problem but we weren't loud

  01:06:19.750 --> 01:06:21.789

  enough about it so people couldn't always totally

  01:06:21.789 --> 01:06:26.050

  tell i think um and we didn't do huge dramatic

  01:06:26.050 --> 01:06:29.210

  wall changes like five degrees to 40 to negative

  01:06:29.210 --> 01:06:31.769

  five to you know which we maybe would do next

  01:06:31.769 --> 01:06:33.210

  time just to make it very obvious what's going

  01:06:33.210 --> 01:06:35.289

  on because like the big change for the for the

  01:06:35.289 --> 01:06:36.989

  athlete like you know it can make a big difference

  01:06:36.989 --> 01:06:39.690

  the wall's a little less steep but we want the

  01:06:39.690 --> 01:06:41.030

  audience to understand that that's happening

  01:06:41.030 --> 01:06:45.480

  as well um but yeah we had a list of angles for

  01:06:45.480 --> 01:06:47.699

  each round like an angle for each round and then

  01:06:47.699 --> 01:06:49.480

  if there's a tweak angle what that was and it

  01:06:49.480 --> 01:06:51.420

  was taped to the wall next to the wall controller

  01:06:51.420 --> 01:06:54.920

  for each wall and we had the guys that our partners

  01:06:54.920 --> 01:06:57.519

  that made the walls were there as well with their

  01:06:57.519 --> 01:07:01.820

  programmer just in case and every part of the

  01:07:01.820 --> 01:07:03.940

  reset was also moving the wall and it was moving

  01:07:03.940 --> 01:07:06.380

  the wall after the set was done or before because

  01:07:06.380 --> 01:07:07.820

  we couldn't be moving it while people were on

  01:07:07.820 --> 01:07:11.110

  ladders in front of it okay Makes sense. This

  01:07:11.110 --> 01:07:13.530

  one you might have touched on a little bit already,

  01:07:13.710 --> 01:07:16.170

  but any chance we'd get mixed gender events,

  01:07:16.429 --> 01:07:18.510

  how would that affect or constrain the setting?

  01:07:19.130 --> 01:07:21.150

  Oh, yeah, I don't know. I think so. I think,

  01:07:21.150 --> 01:07:23.190

  like, you know, Alex Puccio, who I mentioned

  01:07:23.190 --> 01:07:26.309

  before, she, I watched her do moves Daniel Woods

  01:07:26.309 --> 01:07:29.969

  couldn't do in the spot, like, more than once.

  01:07:30.010 --> 01:07:32.230

  Like, she would climb with the strongest boys

  01:07:32.230 --> 01:07:33.670

  and be able to do some stuff they couldn't do,

  01:07:33.710 --> 01:07:34.829

  and they could do some stuff she couldn't do.

  01:07:34.889 --> 01:07:39.159

  But certainly, Yania's, you know. And everybody

  01:07:39.159 --> 01:07:42.159

  agrees, and Hershey does too, that she could

  01:07:42.159 --> 01:07:44.659

  easily compete with the men. And there's other

  01:07:44.659 --> 01:07:46.699

  athletes. I mean, Ori was amazing in this last

  01:07:46.699 --> 01:07:48.440

  event. I think there's something to be said for

  01:07:48.440 --> 01:07:51.579

  stylistic differences, catering to different

  01:07:51.579 --> 01:07:54.159

  types of athletes. So putting the men on the

  01:07:54.159 --> 01:07:56.760

  women's problems and then putting the women on

  01:07:56.760 --> 01:07:58.260

  the men's or having them all on the same problems

  01:07:58.260 --> 01:08:00.460

  might be a cool way to make sure that third boulder

  01:08:00.460 --> 01:08:04.420

  is used also. Don't we talk about it? Maybe we'll

  01:08:04.420 --> 01:08:07.869

  do it. Is that in talks for PCL? Or do you just

  01:08:07.869 --> 01:08:09.909

  mean like in general? Everything's in talks for

  01:08:09.909 --> 01:08:13.230

  PCL. Okay, gotcha. It's a pro climbing league.

  01:08:13.309 --> 01:08:15.409

  It's not like the IFSC is great because they

  01:08:15.409 --> 01:08:17.810

  have a really serious job, which is selecting

  01:08:17.810 --> 01:08:20.550

  the Olympic athletes for our sport. When making

  01:08:20.550 --> 01:08:22.270

  sure our sport is represented well in the Olympics.

  01:08:23.149 --> 01:08:25.390

  We don't have that serious job. Our serious job

  01:08:25.390 --> 01:08:27.109

  is trying to do something fun for people to watch

  01:08:27.109 --> 01:08:28.949

  and for the athletes to compete in, which means

  01:08:28.949 --> 01:08:30.850

  we can kind of do whatever. We don't have to

  01:08:30.850 --> 01:08:33.069

  do it a certain way. They're independent. Like

  01:08:33.069 --> 01:08:34.770

  it's a, it's a league, but they're also going

  01:08:34.770 --> 01:08:37.170

  to be standalone events or like big events, you

  01:08:37.170 --> 01:08:39.649

  know? And the idea is like, if you're in the

  01:08:39.649 --> 01:08:42.090

  surfing league and you go to Portugal, you're

  01:08:42.090 --> 01:08:43.529

  having a different experience than you have in

  01:08:43.529 --> 01:08:48.430

  Tahiti. And people expect that. And with the

  01:08:48.430 --> 01:08:50.909

  IFSC, it used to be, I think more regionally

  01:08:50.909 --> 01:08:53.050

  different, but now it's like a little more like

  01:08:53.050 --> 01:08:54.529

  kind of some of the same setters are traveling

  01:08:54.529 --> 01:08:55.909

  around the world, setting these different events.

  01:08:56.250 --> 01:09:00.850

  And so with PCL, like we probably will use setters

  01:09:00.850 --> 01:09:03.439

  who've. done the event before and maybe we mix

  01:09:03.439 --> 01:09:05.420

  the teams up sometimes but like you know but

  01:09:05.420 --> 01:09:06.680

  it's still supposed to be a fun thing for them

  01:09:06.680 --> 01:09:08.159

  as well because they have a little more room

  01:09:08.159 --> 01:09:09.840

  to experiment because they're not setting an

  01:09:09.840 --> 01:09:12.920

  ifsc event so they have a different format to

  01:09:12.920 --> 01:09:18.270

  work in it's exciting to try things Yeah, that's

  01:09:18.270 --> 01:09:20.689

  a cool way to think about it. Okay, this one

  01:09:20.689 --> 01:09:23.250

  I thought was pretty interesting. Has there been

  01:09:23.250 --> 01:09:26.449

  discussion to set with two different betas on

  01:09:26.449 --> 01:09:29.289

  one problem where one is like a risky dynamic

  01:09:29.289 --> 01:09:33.409

  beta and one is a hard static beta? So when I

  01:09:33.409 --> 01:09:35.390

  was talking about setting for Colin when he was

  01:09:35.390 --> 01:09:39.930

  a kid, we used to set to a boulder within a boulder

  01:09:39.930 --> 01:09:42.670

  quite often. And then those events spot to be

  01:09:42.670 --> 01:09:44.430

  at like Brooke Rabiteau and Sean Rabiteau and

  01:09:44.430 --> 01:09:48.460

  like other strong kids at the time. And I always

  01:09:48.460 --> 01:09:50.539

  enjoy doing that. So I can certainly see doing

  01:09:50.539 --> 01:09:54.140

  that for an event like this. The biggest question

  01:09:54.140 --> 01:09:57.460

  is making sure you do it well so you can have

  01:09:57.460 --> 01:09:59.800

  like a reasonable scoring. So the judge and team

  01:09:59.800 --> 01:10:01.239

  isn't just losing their mind trying to deal with

  01:10:01.239 --> 01:10:03.500

  the scoring. Yeah. What would you have to do

  01:10:03.500 --> 01:10:05.300

  in order to make that happen? Like, would you

  01:10:05.300 --> 01:10:08.279

  need more wall space or? Yeah, you would just

  01:10:08.279 --> 01:10:11.930

  need to. make sure that the options were like

  01:10:11.930 --> 01:10:14.569

  relatively equal difficulty so like i might find

  01:10:14.569 --> 01:10:16.109

  it easier one way and you might think it's easier

  01:10:16.109 --> 01:10:18.529

  another way but like they're all both like relatively

  01:10:18.529 --> 01:10:22.670

  hard in a similar way it's or like they're relatively

  01:10:22.670 --> 01:10:26.310

  similar difficulty i would is what you want so

  01:10:26.310 --> 01:10:29.829

  i mean the classic way to do it would be just

  01:10:29.829 --> 01:10:32.810

  give them some totally nonsense trash like slab

  01:10:32.810 --> 01:10:35.289

  move kind of jib things or like hard static move

  01:10:35.289 --> 01:10:37.930

  jib things and then or you can dyno through it

  01:10:37.930 --> 01:10:40.500

  but People are so good at dynoing, it feels like

  01:10:40.500 --> 01:10:42.939

  cheating. So then maybe it's like it is a dyno,

  01:10:42.979 --> 01:10:44.880

  but it's like a really hard stick or it's like

  01:10:44.880 --> 01:10:47.939

  a dynamic move, but it's a hard stick. Or you

  01:10:47.939 --> 01:10:50.119

  could go slow and steady kind of like if you

  01:10:50.119 --> 01:10:52.760

  take like athletes from this event, like I would

  01:10:52.760 --> 01:10:54.500

  think Annie Sanders would probably do the slow

  01:10:54.500 --> 01:10:57.659

  static way and go quite strongly through that,

  01:10:57.699 --> 01:11:00.520

  but maybe a little slower. And Yanni might just

  01:11:00.520 --> 01:11:03.600

  jump. So you really want to know your field if

  01:11:03.600 --> 01:11:06.140

  you are going to do something that specific because.

  01:11:06.729 --> 01:11:08.670

  It seems like it'd be a lot easier to blow it.

  01:11:11.270 --> 01:11:15.029

  But it totally would be doable. And it'd be interesting

  01:11:15.029 --> 01:11:17.710

  to try. So maybe. One of the audience questions

  01:11:17.710 --> 01:11:21.270

  that come in. Are setters typically more impressed

  01:11:21.270 --> 01:11:24.189

  or annoyed by beta breaks like the ones that

  01:11:24.189 --> 01:11:28.829

  Annie and Max did? I mean impressed. Wait, what

  01:11:28.829 --> 01:11:32.529

  was Annie's beta break? I don't remember if she

  01:11:32.529 --> 01:11:35.739

  had one specifically. She heel hooked at the

  01:11:35.739 --> 01:11:39.060

  top of the women's final, but like, or in the

  01:11:39.060 --> 01:11:41.180

  small final, but like, I mean, you could, it

  01:11:41.180 --> 01:11:44.699

  was just hard. It wasn't like, like what Max

  01:11:44.699 --> 01:11:47.939

  said was like, they did not think of that. No,

  01:11:48.600 --> 01:11:49.939

  I think it's, I think setters are impressed because

  01:11:49.939 --> 01:11:52.239

  I think setters fundamentally are nerds and enjoy

  01:11:52.239 --> 01:11:53.859

  movement. And like, if someone does something

  01:11:53.859 --> 01:11:55.380

  crazy, like we're just as psyched as everyone

  01:11:55.380 --> 01:11:57.560

  else. Like if the beta break is that they're

  01:11:57.560 --> 01:12:00.180

  just like dining through a complex sequence and

  01:12:00.180 --> 01:12:02.199

  you're like, oh no, it ruins the boulder. Like

  01:12:02.199 --> 01:12:06.630

  there's a video right now of. someone in a national

  01:12:06.630 --> 01:12:08.489

  team selection who just dying instead of going

  01:12:08.489 --> 01:12:10.229

  like left and back right they just dino straight

  01:12:10.229 --> 01:12:13.430

  up that always sucks but it's also usually that's

  01:12:13.430 --> 01:12:14.930

  pretty hard because like the setters usually

  01:12:14.930 --> 01:12:17.189

  have thought of it and then been like no one

  01:12:17.189 --> 01:12:19.289

  will do that it's too hard because like there's

  01:12:19.289 --> 01:12:22.810

  some amount of like if somebody can do that they're

  01:12:22.810 --> 01:12:25.210

  allowed to because it's so expensive to do that

  01:12:25.210 --> 01:12:28.989

  you know so it's like that's okay and it's interesting

  01:12:28.989 --> 01:12:31.109

  to see what people do and like again setters

  01:12:31.109 --> 01:12:33.949

  are nerds it's fun to watch people learn um and

  01:12:33.949 --> 01:12:35.930

  have ideas and like what they can do so i think

  01:12:35.930 --> 01:12:39.109

  most setters are fundamentally like excited about

  01:12:39.109 --> 01:12:42.470

  it still although peffling can be like very like

  01:12:42.470 --> 01:12:46.569

  sad also if you you know if it ruins the comp

  01:12:46.569 --> 01:12:48.390

  or you feel like it does but in the case of what

  01:12:48.390 --> 01:12:50.369

  max did like it was just crazy and everybody

  01:12:50.369 --> 01:12:52.810

  loved it so like you know you can't be that upset

  01:12:52.810 --> 01:12:54.729

  like it was awesome like he did something extreme

  01:12:56.329 --> 01:12:58.350

  and the amount of blood and skin left on the

  01:12:58.350 --> 01:13:00.789

  volume he was hand jamming against just like

  01:13:00.789 --> 01:13:04.670

  for shows yeah it is gross it's gross but it's

  01:13:04.670 --> 01:13:07.310

  like cool like he really left it out there so

  01:13:07.310 --> 01:13:10.789

  yeah yeah you mentioned um in the photo you had

  01:13:10.789 --> 01:13:13.109

  a photo of like what was left over on the volumes

  01:13:13.109 --> 01:13:15.949

  from his beta break yeah yeah i'll send it to

  01:13:15.949 --> 01:13:18.399

  you it's just like a Because, you know, he was

  01:13:18.399 --> 01:13:21.239

  jamming on the top of an Unleashed Terror against

  01:13:21.239 --> 01:13:24.199

  like the blocks or the blue pill volume above

  01:13:24.199 --> 01:13:26.739

  it. So the volume is the dual text, but the underside

  01:13:26.739 --> 01:13:28.760

  of the volume is textured. And that's how he

  01:13:28.760 --> 01:13:31.739

  was able to jam in there. And it was just like

  01:13:31.739 --> 01:13:34.779

  a pretty crazy jam to make, honestly. And yeah,

  01:13:34.859 --> 01:13:37.619

  he definitely bled all over it. Yeah, I'll throw

  01:13:37.619 --> 01:13:40.260

  that photo up once I get it. Okay, last two quick.

  01:13:41.390 --> 01:13:44.350

  Well, the first one was just, did you start setting

  01:13:44.350 --> 01:13:46.029

  when you were five? Because you look nowhere

  01:13:46.029 --> 01:13:47.670

  near old enough to have been setting for that

  01:13:47.670 --> 01:13:51.270

  long. Oh, that's nice. No, yeah, totally. Totally.

  01:13:51.430 --> 01:13:56.229

  Yeah. I was 16. Wow. I'm going to be 44 in like

  01:13:56.229 --> 01:13:59.810

  April, beginning of April, which is when I started

  01:13:59.810 --> 01:14:01.630

  climbing actually. And I started setting a few

  01:14:01.630 --> 01:14:05.270

  months later, like six months later or something.

  01:14:05.750 --> 01:14:09.029

  Yeah, that's kind of wild. Do you have any like...

  01:14:09.210 --> 01:14:12.010

  idea of when you would want to stop no I mean

  01:14:12.010 --> 01:14:13.670

  I love it I don't do it as much as I used to

  01:14:13.670 --> 01:14:15.630

  at all because I used to set the gym every week

  01:14:15.630 --> 01:14:19.189

  and you know now I set at kilter I set a lot

  01:14:19.189 --> 01:14:22.710

  on the kilter board um I set in our spaces for

  01:14:22.710 --> 01:14:25.010

  things I set like clinics and events sometimes

  01:14:25.010 --> 01:14:27.149

  but I definitely don't set as much as I used

  01:14:27.149 --> 01:14:30.069

  to and I do miss it I just I'm too busy it sucks

  01:14:30.069 --> 01:14:33.909

  honestly like settings I love it but it is hard

  01:14:33.909 --> 01:14:36.619

  on your body and When you're in your early 30s

  01:14:36.619 --> 01:14:38.800

  as a setter, you're like, oh gosh, what do I

  01:14:38.800 --> 01:14:40.920

  do next? Like, can I keep doing this? And like,

  01:14:40.920 --> 01:14:44.960

  how? And so when I started setting, it was very

  01:14:44.960 --> 01:14:47.039

  common to be able to set above your current climbing

  01:14:47.039 --> 01:14:49.579

  ability. And I learned how to set above my climbing

  01:14:49.579 --> 01:14:52.699

  ability. And I've climbed much harder outdoors

  01:14:52.699 --> 01:14:55.779

  than I will climb inside because I just, I'm

  01:14:55.779 --> 01:14:59.840

  an outdoor climber in my soul. But, you know,

  01:14:59.840 --> 01:15:02.039

  working with forerunners and like spending a

  01:15:02.039 --> 01:15:03.600

  lot of time studying movement, like I taught.

  01:15:04.430 --> 01:15:06.470

  you know, climbing movement for quite a while.

  01:15:06.550 --> 01:15:10.689

  And it lets you like have a calibrator that lets

  01:15:10.689 --> 01:15:14.850

  you set, you know, harder than you can currently

  01:15:14.850 --> 01:15:17.489

  climb for sure. And so there's like an old mentality

  01:15:17.489 --> 01:15:19.189

  of like, okay, you can set much harder that you

  01:15:19.189 --> 01:15:21.090

  can climb right now and you can be a really good

  01:15:21.090 --> 01:15:23.369

  setter, which is completely true. The current

  01:15:23.369 --> 01:15:25.550

  mentality is sort of like, you got to be like

  01:15:25.550 --> 01:15:27.170

  strong enough to climb it or you just aren't

  01:15:27.170 --> 01:15:28.930

  worth having on the team. And I think that's

  01:15:28.930 --> 01:15:31.689

  a losing mentality overall. Cause I think you're

  01:15:31.689 --> 01:15:36.720

  like, And donating the value of potentially very

  01:15:36.720 --> 01:15:40.199

  good judgment and concepts from people and saying,

  01:15:40.199 --> 01:15:41.939

  well, this other person is good enough and they're

  01:15:41.939 --> 01:15:43.520

  like currently strong. Because the problem is

  01:15:43.520 --> 01:15:45.079

  when you're too strong, you also can't evaluate

  01:15:45.079 --> 01:15:47.239

  things very clearly because you're too strong.

  01:15:47.319 --> 01:15:51.720

  So it's just going to be a constant. Like with

  01:15:51.720 --> 01:15:54.020

  setting, I was talking with, like I said, another

  01:15:54.020 --> 01:15:56.199

  setter, a really experienced setter I know last

  01:15:56.199 --> 01:15:58.909

  night. You basically start setting and then it's

  01:15:58.909 --> 01:16:00.970

  like this whole like mix of learning and being

  01:16:00.970 --> 01:16:02.789

  overly confident and then learning some more

  01:16:02.789 --> 01:16:04.689

  and then being confident and being stubborn and

  01:16:04.689 --> 01:16:06.569

  learning some more. And then you kind of get

  01:16:06.569 --> 01:16:09.470

  into this phase where you like have some like

  01:16:09.470 --> 01:16:12.210

  some deserved confidence. Like, OK, I like pretty

  01:16:12.210 --> 01:16:15.350

  much know what I'm doing. And people handle that

  01:16:15.350 --> 01:16:17.149

  differently. And hopefully you also start mentoring

  01:16:17.149 --> 01:16:19.329

  other people. But then you get to a phase where

  01:16:19.329 --> 01:16:21.270

  you're like, oh, I don't know anything. Anything

  01:16:21.270 --> 01:16:23.729

  could be possible. And I know more than like

  01:16:23.729 --> 01:16:25.689

  those people who know much less than me, but

  01:16:25.689 --> 01:16:28.189

  I don't like anything is like so many things

  01:16:28.189 --> 01:16:30.470

  could be true here. So it's like this funny.

  01:16:31.310 --> 01:16:33.250

  You do come out this other side of like this.

  01:16:34.890 --> 01:16:36.770

  I don't know if it's not very Zen, but something

  01:16:36.770 --> 01:16:39.869

  like that of just like there's infinite possibilities.

  01:16:40.210 --> 01:16:43.880

  And like, I don't know. what the best answer

  01:16:43.880 --> 01:16:46.659

  is. I know six ways to fix that. I don't know

  01:16:46.659 --> 01:16:48.880

  which one we should do. I would prefer this one,

  01:16:48.880 --> 01:16:51.460

  but I'm fine with your option too. And I'm also

  01:16:51.460 --> 01:16:53.000

  fine with you, even if you've been setting for

  01:16:53.000 --> 01:16:54.760

  five minutes, having a different solution than

  01:16:54.760 --> 01:16:56.659

  me that could work. And that's just something

  01:16:56.659 --> 01:16:58.539

  you get to because there's a lot of people that

  01:16:58.539 --> 01:16:59.680

  are like, oh, I know everything about setting

  01:16:59.680 --> 01:17:01.920

  or this is what you should do. I always know

  01:17:01.920 --> 01:17:04.380

  what to do or I'm always right. You run into

  01:17:04.380 --> 01:17:06.140

  people in that phase where you call it upsetting,

  01:17:06.439 --> 01:17:09.380

  but people that have been doing it even longer

  01:17:09.380 --> 01:17:11.939

  tend to get into this. Yeah, sure. Let's try

  01:17:11.939 --> 01:17:13.779

  it. You know, let's see what's possible. Like,

  01:17:13.779 --> 01:17:17.260

  let's see what's out there. I could learn something

  01:17:17.260 --> 01:17:20.340

  I don't know from anybody. Yeah, I don't know.

  01:17:20.359 --> 01:17:22.359

  It's just a really cool thing to be able to do.

  01:17:22.399 --> 01:17:24.180

  And I hope to be able to continue doing it for,

  01:17:24.199 --> 01:17:27.060

  you know, ever, basically. But I just not like

  01:17:27.060 --> 01:17:30.720

  week to week in a climbing gym. Okay. And the

  01:17:30.720 --> 01:17:34.279

  last one, totally different from the PCL stuff.

  01:17:34.420 --> 01:17:37.119

  What do you think makes Kilter stand out? Oh,

  01:17:37.159 --> 01:17:40.869

  what makes Kilter stand out? We are always trying

  01:17:40.869 --> 01:17:43.250

  to do a bunch of new things. We have kind of

  01:17:43.250 --> 01:17:45.390

  too many projects, but we just have a lot of

  01:17:45.390 --> 01:17:47.430

  ideas for climbing. Ian's been in climbing since

  01:17:47.430 --> 01:17:49.449

  the 80s. I've been in it since the late 90s.

  01:17:49.449 --> 01:17:51.430

  We've done a lot of different things. We've both

  01:17:51.430 --> 01:17:53.109

  been on the U .S. World Team at different points

  01:17:53.109 --> 01:17:56.470

  in our careers. We've both been coaches. We've

  01:17:56.470 --> 01:17:59.430

  both been setters. We've both been climbers outdoors

  01:17:59.430 --> 01:18:01.729

  in all different kinds of areas. Our third partner,

  01:18:01.810 --> 01:18:04.270

  Griffin, is underground one of the best boulders

  01:18:04.270 --> 01:18:06.909

  in the world, or he has been. He's maybe not

  01:18:06.909 --> 01:18:10.260

  currently because he's had a... few things pull

  01:18:10.260 --> 01:18:12.779

  them away but you know like strong climbers know

  01:18:12.779 --> 01:18:16.079

  about griff kind of thing um our team is like

  01:18:16.079 --> 01:18:17.880

  pretty dedicated climbers and they have a wide

  01:18:17.880 --> 01:18:19.640

  range of experience in the industry with setting

  01:18:19.640 --> 01:18:21.520

  and climbing and competing and coaching and all

  01:18:21.520 --> 01:18:26.020

  these things so we really um try to give people

  01:18:26.020 --> 01:18:29.239

  opportunities to create like cool things we want

  01:18:29.239 --> 01:18:30.779

  to see in climbing in the future and that's part

  01:18:30.779 --> 01:18:33.579

  of what we did with pcl was just try to we wanted

  01:18:33.579 --> 01:18:35.199

  to have a different kind of comp we met up with

  01:18:35.199 --> 01:18:37.079

  dan and charlie they did too and so we worked

  01:18:37.079 --> 01:18:39.199

  together with them on making it happen And I

  01:18:39.199 --> 01:18:42.239

  think like we spend a lot of time trying to do

  01:18:42.239 --> 01:18:44.479

  stuff like that. And then Ian always has crazy

  01:18:44.479 --> 01:18:47.939

  ideas and like new ideas for products like the

  01:18:47.939 --> 01:18:50.560

  adjustable walls and, you know, the way the kilter

  01:18:50.560 --> 01:18:52.680

  board works and then like the complex blocking

  01:18:52.680 --> 01:18:55.840

  holds and stuff that like takes a while for people

  01:18:55.840 --> 01:18:58.720

  to get used to and want like sometimes. But it's

  01:18:58.720 --> 01:19:01.859

  like they're awesome. He's always sort of misunderstood,

  01:19:02.100 --> 01:19:05.460

  but like. He totally sees the future. He's not

  01:19:05.460 --> 01:19:08.000

  wrong. The stuff that he makes is amazing. And

  01:19:08.000 --> 01:19:11.859

  he's also an incredible sculptor. Like I said,

  01:19:11.899 --> 01:19:15.220

  he can shape anything anybody else has shaped.

  01:19:15.300 --> 01:19:17.699

  And he can also shape unique stuff no one's thought

  01:19:17.699 --> 01:19:21.180

  of. And he is really good at making shapes that

  01:19:21.180 --> 01:19:23.159

  are also comfortable, functional climbing holds.

  01:19:23.520 --> 01:19:25.560

  Because you do see some artistic stuff out there

  01:19:25.560 --> 01:19:28.539

  that's got some issues that make it not a great

  01:19:28.539 --> 01:19:31.550

  climbing hold. Outdoors, you can get anything

  01:19:31.550 --> 01:19:33.689

  because it's rock. But indoors, our responsibility,

  01:19:33.909 --> 01:19:36.310

  I think, is to try to create a good experience

  01:19:36.310 --> 01:19:38.369

  for the user, whatever that experience is supposed

  01:19:38.369 --> 01:19:40.170

  to be. And certainly, you want it to be the intentional.

  01:19:40.909 --> 01:19:45.390

  You don't want a hold to be super easy to misuse

  01:19:45.390 --> 01:19:48.989

  and to injure people. You want holds to be good

  01:19:48.989 --> 01:19:52.170

  tools for route setting, basically. And that

  01:19:52.170 --> 01:19:53.810

  means they were designed with intention. And

  01:19:53.810 --> 01:19:58.449

  they are designed. They're not just a product.

  01:19:59.210 --> 01:20:02.369

  They're both. Yeah, I think it's interesting

  01:20:02.369 --> 01:20:05.470

  what you said that you make products that people

  01:20:05.470 --> 01:20:08.529

  don't realize that they want yet or ones that

  01:20:08.529 --> 01:20:12.250

  takes a while to get used to. Yeah, I guess the

  01:20:12.250 --> 01:20:13.930

  first thing that comes to mind there is like

  01:20:13.930 --> 01:20:17.350

  no -tax holds or some of like the crazy moves

  01:20:17.350 --> 01:20:19.729

  that they come out with during some World Cups

  01:20:19.729 --> 01:20:22.890

  that just end up getting used over and over after

  01:20:22.890 --> 01:20:25.560

  a while. People like need to learn them. I think

  01:20:25.560 --> 01:20:27.340

  the biggest issue with holds, like especially

  01:20:27.340 --> 01:20:29.880

  with comp setting is setters have like a limited

  01:20:29.880 --> 01:20:31.979

  time to do this pretty complex job and they're

  01:20:31.979 --> 01:20:34.399

  nervous about it to some degree. And so they

  01:20:34.399 --> 01:20:36.420

  tend to fall back on holds. They really know

  01:20:36.420 --> 01:20:37.899

  because they think, oh, I know how this is holds

  01:20:37.899 --> 01:20:40.079

  going to go. But what happens then is you see

  01:20:40.079 --> 01:20:42.199

  the same holds over and over in events. And it's

  01:20:42.199 --> 01:20:44.640

  not that they're necessarily the best holds.

  01:20:44.699 --> 01:20:46.140

  Some of them are great holds. Some of them are

  01:20:46.140 --> 01:20:47.859

  whatever. But they're holds the setters are familiar

  01:20:47.859 --> 01:20:50.630

  with. What do you need to do? You need the setters

  01:20:50.630 --> 01:20:52.250

  to get familiar with more holds. But they have

  01:20:52.250 --> 01:20:54.010

  to have the opportunity to do that. If they're

  01:20:54.010 --> 01:20:57.369

  flying around, you know, all over the world all

  01:20:57.369 --> 01:20:59.189

  the time, like, they don't have time to sit at

  01:20:59.189 --> 01:21:02.050

  their gym and nerd out on a set of complex holds

  01:21:02.050 --> 01:21:06.090

  or, you know, the newest whatever. Like, I think

  01:21:06.090 --> 01:21:08.289

  Ian's definitely misunderstood in some ways.

  01:21:08.350 --> 01:21:09.850

  There's also a lot of people that really appreciate

  01:21:09.850 --> 01:21:11.710

  what we're doing, which we really appreciate.

  01:21:12.229 --> 01:21:14.489

  But, like, you know, Laurent from Cheetah, like...

  01:21:15.310 --> 01:21:17.590

  arguably less misunderstood than we are, but

  01:21:17.590 --> 01:21:19.090

  he still comes out with stuff that people just

  01:21:19.090 --> 01:21:20.989

  don't get. And so they just don't use it properly.

  01:21:21.170 --> 01:21:24.210

  And I think even, you know, he and other, these

  01:21:24.210 --> 01:21:26.130

  artists shapers are like, they're committed to

  01:21:26.130 --> 01:21:28.729

  what they're doing. And I think it is a little

  01:21:28.729 --> 01:21:32.529

  hard on them. You know, Peter Jewell with Urban

  01:21:32.529 --> 01:21:34.449

  Plastics, who's another brand that we actually

  01:21:34.449 --> 01:21:37.430

  own now, but he's a great shaper and he made

  01:21:37.430 --> 01:21:40.090

  a new series, Multitech Stone. They're awesome.

  01:21:40.270 --> 01:21:41.909

  They're different. And it's going to take people

  01:21:41.909 --> 01:21:43.909

  for like a little while to get used to them.

  01:21:45.770 --> 01:21:48.510

  Two color holds, you know, it's been done a little

  01:21:48.510 --> 01:21:51.449

  bit successfully, but like it's protested against.

  01:21:51.510 --> 01:21:53.029

  But now you're seeing it more and more again.

  01:21:53.189 --> 01:21:55.989

  Not like you're you're up with two colors of

  01:21:55.989 --> 01:21:59.989

  like resin, but like two color macros, you know,

  01:21:59.989 --> 01:22:03.479

  white macro with a red patch or whatever. It's

  01:22:03.479 --> 01:22:05.399

  just about like people, people getting used to

  01:22:05.399 --> 01:22:06.760

  stuff. And then there's a different kind of person

  01:22:06.760 --> 01:22:08.159

  that sees something once and they want to try

  01:22:08.159 --> 01:22:10.020

  it immediately and figure it out. And I think

  01:22:10.020 --> 01:22:12.340

  the Internet's really helped route setting levels

  01:22:12.340 --> 01:22:14.380

  go up across the world because there's so much

  01:22:14.380 --> 01:22:16.800

  accessibility to what other people are doing

  01:22:16.800 --> 01:22:18.880

  that you can try it. You can see that move in

  01:22:18.880 --> 01:22:22.199

  a World Cup or on a video somebody released from

  01:22:22.199 --> 01:22:23.819

  their home gym and be like, that's sick. I want

  01:22:23.819 --> 01:22:25.619

  to try to do it. And I want to try to do it differently

  01:22:25.619 --> 01:22:27.460

  and better. And what if I did it like this? And

  01:22:27.460 --> 01:22:30.090

  so like. ideas that used to take a long time

  01:22:30.090 --> 01:22:32.170

  to circulate and really went around only if there

  01:22:32.170 --> 01:22:34.529

  was a traveling setter are going around like

  01:22:34.529 --> 01:22:38.210

  wildfire. Yeah. What is like an underrated hold

  01:22:38.210 --> 01:22:41.649

  that you think people will get into or should

  01:22:41.649 --> 01:22:44.750

  get into? I mean, the complex series, we stopped

  01:22:44.750 --> 01:22:46.069

  talking about it for a while because we just

  01:22:46.069 --> 01:22:49.010

  kind of got tired of people not like understanding

  01:22:49.010 --> 01:22:50.909

  it. Some people understand it, but like a lot

  01:22:50.909 --> 01:22:52.010

  of people are just kind of like, oh, I don't

  01:22:52.010 --> 01:22:54.449

  know. Like it seems difficult. But then meanwhile,

  01:22:54.529 --> 01:22:56.369

  they're screwing eight jibs together. And like

  01:22:56.369 --> 01:22:59.720

  to me. screwing a bunch of jibs together for

  01:22:59.720 --> 01:23:01.220

  a comp isn't really appropriate because if it

  01:23:01.220 --> 01:23:03.000

  breaks you can't replace it and also they're

  01:23:03.000 --> 01:23:04.619

  not really meant to be used like that so it's

  01:23:04.619 --> 01:23:07.520

  like not a good product complex hold is a hold

  01:23:07.520 --> 01:23:10.119

  that's meant to be like block about our holds

  01:23:10.119 --> 01:23:12.079

  like the hold maybe has an angle we use like

  01:23:12.079 --> 01:23:15.279

  major like 20 30 40 degrees like common angles

  01:23:15.279 --> 01:23:17.560

  that you might find in the gym and there's blocker

  01:23:17.560 --> 01:23:19.680

  holds that are meant to push against it but also

  01:23:19.680 --> 01:23:21.840

  like you can move them and they create a different

  01:23:21.840 --> 01:23:24.600

  grip on the hold so the hold like maybe it's

  01:23:24.600 --> 01:23:26.060

  a jug and then all of a sudden now there's only

  01:23:26.060 --> 01:23:28.039

  this little area available or you can only grab

  01:23:28.039 --> 01:23:30.600

  the lip or now it's a crimp over here so you

  01:23:30.600 --> 01:23:34.079

  can like change the experience of the climber

  01:23:34.079 --> 01:23:36.539

  and like yes you can modify stuff to block it

  01:23:36.539 --> 01:23:38.680

  setters like doing that but you also could use

  01:23:38.680 --> 01:23:42.539

  products that are designed with like the setter

  01:23:42.539 --> 01:23:44.619

  in mind like there's all these different blockers

  01:23:44.619 --> 01:23:46.619

  you can use they fit with all these different

  01:23:46.619 --> 01:23:49.180

  holds it's not difficult they also work great

  01:23:49.180 --> 01:23:51.600

  on volumes it's like just little holds or feet

  01:23:52.829 --> 01:23:56.270

  that you can create like an infinite number of

  01:23:56.270 --> 01:23:59.510

  possibilities with these tools and like we also

  01:23:59.510 --> 01:24:02.010

  made a wall where we block like yellow holds

  01:24:02.010 --> 01:24:03.710

  with red holds and green holds and then it's

  01:24:03.710 --> 01:24:05.029

  like you could climb the red line or the yellow

  01:24:05.029 --> 01:24:06.789

  line and have like a really kind of tight spray

  01:24:06.789 --> 01:24:08.430

  wall and that was really cool so there's just

  01:24:08.430 --> 01:24:11.210

  like there's a lot more experimenting to do and

  01:24:11.210 --> 01:24:13.869

  i think the only downside to the media trend

  01:24:13.869 --> 01:24:16.590

  thing with setting is people get sucked into

  01:24:16.590 --> 01:24:18.270

  experimenting with the trend they already see

  01:24:18.270 --> 01:24:21.390

  and they stop like coming up with new trends

  01:24:21.390 --> 01:24:24.510

  kind of or like People overdo it. They get a

  01:24:24.510 --> 01:24:26.630

  little too indulgent with trying something they

  01:24:26.630 --> 01:24:29.729

  saw at a World Cup and then they don't do enough.

  01:24:30.390 --> 01:24:34.109

  Like, I don't know. Like, I always loved how

  01:24:34.109 --> 01:24:36.310

  creative you could be as a setter. And our team

  01:24:36.310 --> 01:24:38.550

  was creative at the spot. We came up with all

  01:24:38.550 --> 01:24:40.609

  kinds of cool stuff. And I think that's one of

  01:24:40.609 --> 01:24:42.369

  the things that's really fun about setting. So

  01:24:42.369 --> 01:24:44.189

  I hope that other setting teams are continuing.

  01:24:44.449 --> 01:24:45.989

  And I see some of it online, but I just hope

  01:24:45.989 --> 01:24:49.090

  people continue to have that sense of like, I

  01:24:49.090 --> 01:24:51.189

  don't know if it's whimsy or experimentation

  01:24:51.189 --> 01:24:54.220

  or just like. joy around what's possible. Like

  01:24:54.220 --> 01:24:56.180

  we're basically playing with adult Legos, you

  01:24:56.180 --> 01:25:00.039

  know? And so like to be fun. Yeah. I will link

  01:25:00.039 --> 01:25:01.840

  these so people know what you're talking about.

  01:25:02.659 --> 01:25:04.779

  Okay. Well, I think that's all the questions

  01:25:04.779 --> 01:25:07.899

  I had then. Thanks for joining. Is there anything

  01:25:07.899 --> 01:25:11.279

  else you want to shout out or is there any like

  01:25:11.279 --> 01:25:13.260

  last minute words of wisdom that you have out

  01:25:13.260 --> 01:25:15.399

  there that you want to get out? I mean, a huge

  01:25:15.399 --> 01:25:17.720

  thanks to everybody involved with PCL organization,

  01:25:18.260 --> 01:25:20.859

  the broadcasting, the volunteers, the setting

  01:25:20.859 --> 01:25:24.520

  team. The support teams, like, just, it was a

  01:25:24.520 --> 01:25:31.500

  massive undertaking. And, like, we drove, I can't

  01:25:31.500 --> 01:25:33.720

  explain enough. We drove everything from, we

  01:25:33.720 --> 01:25:36.079

  took it down in Sheffield, drove it in trucks

  01:25:36.079 --> 01:25:38.359

  to London, set it up, ran the event, took it

  01:25:38.359 --> 01:25:40.460

  down in a matter of, like, 30 hours. Like, it's

  01:25:40.460 --> 01:25:44.560

  crazy. I think we had 35 hours we were in the

  01:25:44.560 --> 01:25:45.819

  bench, supposed to be in the venue, and I think

  01:25:45.819 --> 01:25:47.920

  we ran it for 40, actually, maybe. Is that right?

  01:25:48.350 --> 01:25:51.430

  Anyway, it was no sleep in any of that. No, I

  01:25:51.430 --> 01:25:53.569

  was awake for 25 hours on the day of the event.

  01:25:53.670 --> 01:25:57.229

  Oh, geez. But it was cool. And everybody worked

  01:25:57.229 --> 01:25:58.890

  really hard. And it was just really cool to have

  01:25:58.890 --> 01:26:01.750

  everybody work together and create like something

  01:26:01.750 --> 01:26:05.750

  that was I was standing on the stage when the

  01:26:05.750 --> 01:26:07.689

  doors open, like not on purpose. I was like messing

  01:26:07.689 --> 01:26:10.149

  with the camera or something. And all of a sudden

  01:26:10.149 --> 01:26:12.649

  there was just screaming, running people towards

  01:26:12.649 --> 01:26:15.350

  the bar at the front of the stage. And it was

  01:26:15.350 --> 01:26:17.090

  just such a cool experience. Like I've never.

  01:26:17.770 --> 01:26:19.590

  been in a band or anything where that's been

  01:26:19.590 --> 01:26:22.789

  a thing so i was just like it was like that was

  01:26:22.789 --> 01:26:24.470

  when i was like oh my god like this is happening

  01:26:24.470 --> 01:26:29.590

  you know um so yeah it was super cool um so thanks

  01:26:29.590 --> 01:26:31.890

  everybody for coming and for watching it and

  01:26:31.890 --> 01:26:34.649

  thanks to red bull for supporting it and everybody

  01:26:34.649 --> 01:26:37.350

  at pcl and like everybody else who contributed

  01:26:37.350 --> 01:26:39.189

  there was just too many people to name it's so

  01:26:39.189 --> 01:26:41.409

  many people that we needed to make it work and

  01:26:41.409 --> 01:26:46.060

  we really appreciate all of them yeah Sound really

  01:26:46.060 --> 01:26:48.460

  cool. I kind of wish I had gone now. I'll have

  01:26:48.460 --> 01:26:50.779

  to try to make it to the next one. Have FOMO.

  01:26:50.779 --> 01:26:54.739

  It's going to be sick. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Want

  01:26:54.739 --> 01:26:57.260

  to let people know where they can find you? Oh,

  01:26:57.260 --> 01:27:00.859

  I mean, setacloset .com is Kilter's site. And

  01:27:00.859 --> 01:27:02.659

  we have our walls on there, too, for people that

  01:27:02.659 --> 01:27:04.739

  are interested in those walls. Oh, wait. I should

  01:27:04.739 --> 01:27:08.689

  say this. We are working to make. Like those

  01:27:08.689 --> 01:27:10.869

  boulders, we saved the duplication sheets so

  01:27:10.869 --> 01:27:12.949

  we actually can reset them in our space. And

  01:27:12.949 --> 01:27:14.770

  we're working on a way to make it easier for

  01:27:14.770 --> 01:27:16.930

  people to duplicate them. So if you have a similar

  01:27:16.930 --> 01:27:19.930

  wall angle, like a big flat plane, or if you

  01:27:19.930 --> 01:27:22.270

  get one of these adjustable slabs that we make,

  01:27:22.350 --> 01:27:25.170

  slab to 40 degrees overhanging, you can reset

  01:27:25.170 --> 01:27:28.149

  the exact client from PCL if you want, which

  01:27:28.149 --> 01:27:29.989

  is really cool. And we're working on more of

  01:27:29.989 --> 01:27:32.670

  that in the future. So it's very easy for people

  01:27:32.670 --> 01:27:34.750

  that buy a wall like this or have another wall

  01:27:34.750 --> 01:27:37.640

  they can adapt to actually give their... gym

  01:27:37.640 --> 01:27:39.880

  community a chance to climb these same climbs.

  01:27:40.380 --> 01:27:43.239

  Oh, okay. I'd be pretty interested in that. Are

  01:27:43.239 --> 01:27:45.840

  you guys going to be setting that up in the Kilter

  01:27:45.840 --> 01:27:49.760

  warehouse? Yeah, so we're getting a new space.

  01:27:51.239 --> 01:27:53.560

  We had a space in Frederick, Colorado, which

  01:27:53.560 --> 01:27:54.579

  is near Boulder, but we're just going to get

  01:27:54.579 --> 01:27:56.279

  a different space a little closer to our warehouse

  01:27:56.279 --> 01:27:59.359

  and have our walls set up again so we can be

  01:27:59.359 --> 01:28:02.159

  doing that there. Yeah, and then we're just going

  01:28:02.159 --> 01:28:03.579

  to work in different technology to try to make

  01:28:03.579 --> 01:28:05.760

  it easier for people to actually do the duplication.

  01:28:06.590 --> 01:28:08.430

  because the other cool thing is like if you're

  01:28:08.430 --> 01:28:10.470

  in a place where there isn't a lot of route setting

  01:28:10.470 --> 01:28:12.850

  like mentorship or other people to work with

  01:28:12.850 --> 01:28:14.710

  something like this is very cool because then

  01:28:14.710 --> 01:28:17.229

  you can set these climbs into your gym and then

  01:28:17.229 --> 01:28:18.810

  experiment with them and like learn basically

  01:28:18.810 --> 01:28:20.989

  by doing that which is a nice way to like even

  01:28:20.989 --> 01:28:22.989

  though it's there's no person there explaining

  01:28:22.989 --> 01:28:25.289

  it to you you can definitely get some like remote

  01:28:25.289 --> 01:28:27.050

  mentorship in that way which i think is cool

  01:28:27.050 --> 01:28:30.649

  well i would love to try it out so if i find

  01:28:30.649 --> 01:28:33.069

  anywhere that's setting it i would love to get

  01:28:33.069 --> 01:28:35.729

  on it yeah yeah it should be cool so yeah so

  01:28:35.729 --> 01:28:38.439

  just Our website is settercloset .com. It's Kilter

  01:28:38.439 --> 01:28:41.439

  Urban Plastics. We distribute a few other brands

  01:28:41.439 --> 01:28:46.399

  in the U .S. as well. But PCLproclimbingleague

  01:28:46.399 --> 01:28:50.479

  .com. And then we're all on Instagram. Oh, and

  01:28:50.479 --> 01:28:52.000

  we have a YouTube, too, actually. Kilter has

  01:28:52.000 --> 01:28:54.779

  a YouTube. Oh, wait. Yeah, I think I have seen

  01:28:54.779 --> 01:28:57.659

  some videos. Yeah, we do setting sessions. So

  01:28:57.659 --> 01:28:59.300

  I guess the last call I want to make is if you're

  01:28:59.300 --> 01:29:00.619

  a route setter and you're coming through Colorado,

  01:29:00.819 --> 01:29:02.520

  hit us up because we'd love to do a setter session

  01:29:02.520 --> 01:29:04.899

  with you at the studio. and then setters who

  01:29:04.899 --> 01:29:06.760

  skip to come use like some of our newest stuff

  01:29:06.760 --> 01:29:08.399

  and set whatever they feel like and we make a

  01:29:08.399 --> 01:29:10.680

  little video about it and it's pretty fun just

  01:29:10.680 --> 01:29:13.399

  like a fun day for everybody so awesome i will

  01:29:13.399 --> 01:29:16.640

  link all of that below there's a lot but uh yeah

  01:29:16.640 --> 01:29:18.500

  there's a lot of good info Yeah, sorry. There's

  01:29:18.500 --> 01:29:20.880

  a lot. Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you again. And

  01:29:20.880 --> 01:29:22.739

  it was amazing to talk to you. Yeah. Thank you

  01:29:22.739 --> 01:29:25.460

  so much. Thank you so much for making it to the

  01:29:25.460 --> 01:29:27.859

  end of the podcast. Don't forget to like and

  01:29:27.859 --> 01:29:30.000

  subscribe if you enjoyed. Otherwise, you are

  01:29:30.000 --> 01:29:33.260

  a super fake climber. If you're listening on

  01:29:33.260 --> 01:29:35.560

  a podcasting platform, I'd appreciate if you

  01:29:35.560 --> 01:29:38.520

  rate it five stars and you can continue the discussion

  01:29:38.520 --> 01:29:41.680

  on the free competition climbing discord linked

  01:29:41.680 --> 01:29:44.119

  in the description. Thanks again for listening.