49: Ben Hanna, USA Bouldering + Hold Shaper
Ben is a climber on Team USA and hold shaper for Pusher holds! In this episode we’ll get some insight into the grades of world cup boulders, how depression, anxiety, and ADHD shapes his relationship with climbing, how he balances working as a routesetter with training, and get his thoughts on hold shaping.
Timestamps
Timestamps of discussion topics
0:00 - Intro
1:10 - Mad Rock Shoutout!!
1:53 - World champs experience
11:51 - Difficulty of semis boulders at world cups
18:33 - Getting into climbing and competing
22:36 - Climbing as self-medication for ADHD
30:20 - Training routine...or lack thereof
38:44 - Actually a lead climber
45:21 - MORE power boulders!
51:55 - Competitiveness with Colin
55:11 - Becoming a hold shaper
59:00 - Good holds vs bad holds
1:09:54 - Thoughts on no tex
1:20:05 - 2026 goals
1:21:56 - AUDIENCE Q: Did you really start climbing at 2?
1:26:19 - AUDIENCE Q: What kept you motivated to keep trying after failures at nationals
1:30:53 - AUDIENCE Q: What local climbers helped you growing up?
1:33:51 - Shoutouts + where to find Ben
-
WEBVTT
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the power boulders can be v14 or v15 and they'll
00:00:04.419 --> 00:00:07.780
get done time away from climbing and like not
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being able to exercise for long long bouts i
00:00:10.119 --> 00:00:13.240
like started to realize that i like have some
00:00:13.240 --> 00:00:16.260
kind of depression and anxiety and that i've
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just been like self -medicating for the last
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20 some years via climbing and exercise They're
00:00:23.800 --> 00:00:25.780
just like a waste of plastic. And every time
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I see them, I'm just like, I can't believe you're
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just anyone's allowed to make a climbing hold
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company. Welcome to another episode of the That's
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Not Real Climbing Podcast. I'm your host, Jinni,
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and I'm excited to introduce my guest for today,
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Ben Hanna. Ben is a climber on Team USA and
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hold shaper for Pusher Holds. In this episode,
00:00:45.780 --> 00:00:47.759
we'll get some insight into the grades of World
00:00:47.759 --> 00:00:50.840
Cup boulders, how depression, anxiety, and ADHD
00:00:50.840 --> 00:00:53.899
shapes his relationship with climbing, how he
00:00:53.899 --> 00:00:56.140
balances working as a route setter with training,
00:00:56.340 --> 00:00:58.560
and we'll get his thoughts on hold shipping.
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I hope you enjoy this interview with Ben. I'm
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excited to announce that my sponsor Mad Rock
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for 10 % off your entire Mad Rock order. Back
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to the show! Yeah, I don't know how people do
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it. I hate climbing in the morning. Yeah, it's
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I honestly I've been recently really like like
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the last two years has been recently like been
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really enjoying early morning sessions. It's
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the afternoon sessions that I feel like I like
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perform not as well in. But don't you feel like
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more stiff in the morning like at the end of
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the day is when you're like the most loose and
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stretched out and everything? Honestly, I just
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feel really tired by the end of the day. Like
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2 p .m. session comes around and I'm just like,
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man, I've been up for like six hours. I have
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to plan two meals before the comp instead of
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just cramming whatever I can in my face before
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I go. I'm also like, for me, the morning sessions
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are nice because I'll wake up and it's early,
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but I'll just wake up and I'm like, okay, it's
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go time. I don't have to think about this all
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day. I think it's a lot about that too. You just
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like less to think about and like less stress
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because you just like wake up and it sucks because
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it's early and you go and then it's time to climb.
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It's like over with a lot faster. Yeah, I guess
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that's true. I mean, do you tend to feel like
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you're someone who gets super nervous before
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comms like it's on your mind all day? I wouldn't
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say that I'm like a nervous wreck. I have some
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friends that are like nervous wrecks, but I definitely
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do get nervous and like have anxiety around it.
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In Korea, it was like really weird to deal with
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that because it was like, it wasn't eight days.
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It felt like it was eight days. It was only four
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days, but like four proper rest days. And then
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I climbed on the fifth day. So I had like five
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days to think about the next round. And like
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I went through the whole range of emotions of
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like super stressed. I wasn't going to make the
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round. Super psyched I made the round. excited
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for the round, nervous for the round, kind of
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ready for the round to be over because I'd been
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in Korea for so long and I didn't really get
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to do anything because I was just resting the
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whole time. I was like, I'm ready to get out
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of here. This bed sucks. I haven't done anything
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all week. I just want to do this thing and get
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over with it. Ready to go home. Well, I mean,
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first of all, congrats on making it into semis
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for Korea at the World Champs. That was cool
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to see. Thank you. And so, yeah, like, in that
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in -between time, you didn't really get to do
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any, like, fun things or traveling. You were
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just kind of resting. Yeah, I was pretty locked
00:04:27.910 --> 00:04:31.610
in. We had, like, two days where we, like, bopped
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around a little bit. But I didn't do a bunch
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of sightseeing, and I, like, tried to minimize
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my, like, going out and doing stuff. I also,
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like, went and watched every round, and so that
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ended up taking a bunch of time, too. Usually,
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I won't go to all the rounds to chill out before
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the comp, but I was like, I've got so many days,
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and I was also psyched to watch climbing. I just
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went and watched, I think, every single round
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but one, which happened to be the women's final,
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which sucked because it was the best round of
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the whole competition. I was so bummed because
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I wanted to watch Melina climb so badly, but
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also I was like, It's like 8 or 9. I think it
00:05:20.310 --> 00:05:23.310
started at like 8 the night before semis. I was
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like, do I have to go get ready for bed? And
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it was like a long walk from the venue too. I
00:05:29.069 --> 00:05:30.550
was like, I just can't be dealing with this.
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I'm going to bed. How did your rounds go, you
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felt like? How did the climbing feel? They were
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okay. Weirdly enough, both China qualifiers and
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Korea semifinals, I felt like I had a mediocre
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round. neither neither round I was like oh I'm
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on fire it was like oh I'm like just barely doing
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enough and then honestly in Korea I I got to
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the last boulder and I tried it once and at that
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point I had like topped one boulder and I'd zoned
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everything really quickly and I Was almost positive
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that if I topped this boulder, I would be in
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semis. I was like, this feels like it would be
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enough to be into semis. And then I tried it
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and I fell going to the finish. Now my first
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attempt and was like, okay, for sure this boulder
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is doable. And that means that like, I probably
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need to do it to make the round. And I had like,
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I could have, I would have like. bet good money
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i was like i'm almost 100 sure that if i do this
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boulder i make the semi if i don't do this boulder
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i don't make the semi um and then i watched the
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dude next to me in group b do the boulder and
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i was like okay there's like confirmation bias
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that this boulder goes and it's like probably
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necessary uh and then i proceeded to just like
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totally fold under the pressure and not do the
00:07:04.129 --> 00:07:09.639
boulder and i was like heartbroken i know i knew
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i could do it i was sure that i needed to do
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it and was like this is my moment like i can
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i can achieve my goals if i just do this boulder
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which i like will anyone anytime i talk about
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it that's like the number one thing not to do
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is think about the goal and the end result and
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just focus in on how to do the boulder but i
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like fully folded under the pressure got wrapped
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up and all of the like you know if i do it results
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shenanigans And I was so mad at myself. I was
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so mad at myself. The season was over and I like
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was really bummed. And then I got out of ISO
00:07:47.199 --> 00:07:48.920
and everyone was like, dude, you did it. You're
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in. You're in. And I was like, I don't believe
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you. And then I was in 21st at that moment. And
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so I was like, oh, yeah, like there's no way
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that the next 20 something dude, someone doesn't
00:08:02.180 --> 00:08:05.879
knock me out. And somehow I like held on for.
00:08:06.379 --> 00:08:08.740
the rest of the round and ended up getting like
00:08:08.740 --> 00:08:12.279
the last spot in but it was like i was really
00:08:12.279 --> 00:08:14.360
really upset with myself because i felt like
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i really didn't do my best i like didn't have
00:08:18.560 --> 00:08:22.100
my best day and i it wasn't just like a physically
00:08:22.100 --> 00:08:24.819
like a physical thing it was a mental thing where
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like i i should have done that boulder i know
00:08:29.439 --> 00:08:32.019
i could have done that boulder and i like folded
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under the pressure and it was like more frustrating
00:08:37.090 --> 00:08:39.529
and upsetting that it ended up being like happy
00:08:39.529 --> 00:08:41.629
about making the semi because i was mostly just
00:08:41.629 --> 00:08:44.710
focused on how like i folded under the pressure
00:08:44.710 --> 00:08:46.549
and didn't do the thing that i knew i needed
00:08:46.549 --> 00:08:53.210
to do and then the round in semi -finals i i
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honestly was much happier with the result kind
00:08:56.990 --> 00:08:59.429
of sucked i'm like really not happy with that
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result the first boulder is like was one of the
00:09:03.029 --> 00:09:05.580
boulders i like had a shot of topping and felt
00:09:05.580 --> 00:09:08.179
like that one was doable but it was really just
00:09:08.179 --> 00:09:10.340
like about finding the right body position to
00:09:10.340 --> 00:09:14.039
like jump and I didn't find it and I was like
00:09:14.039 --> 00:09:17.139
okay with that I was like it would have been
00:09:17.139 --> 00:09:19.019
nice to have done that boulder and I probably
00:09:19.019 --> 00:09:21.179
could have done that boulder and like in a different
00:09:21.179 --> 00:09:23.059
day maybe did do that boulder but it felt like
00:09:23.059 --> 00:09:26.279
it was just kind of a it's a skill issue but
00:09:26.279 --> 00:09:29.299
it also felt like kind of a luck issue like sometimes
00:09:30.029 --> 00:09:32.549
there's you find the right position and sometimes
00:09:32.549 --> 00:09:34.769
you just don't and under four minutes you get
00:09:34.769 --> 00:09:37.129
like you know a couple of tries it's like that
00:09:37.129 --> 00:09:40.769
that day i didn't find it and that's okay and
00:09:40.769 --> 00:09:44.070
then the second boulder was a lot more straightforward
00:09:44.070 --> 00:09:46.490
and i really should have done that boulder it
00:09:46.490 --> 00:09:49.590
felt really hard the last move and then i proceeded
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to watch everyone else just own the move and
00:09:52.809 --> 00:09:55.269
then colin even told me that that boulder was
00:09:55.269 --> 00:09:58.570
like he was like that's like a white epi p literally
00:10:01.529 --> 00:10:03.210
Everyone should do that boulder. That boulder
00:10:03.210 --> 00:10:06.330
is so easy. It's too easy for a round. After
00:10:06.330 --> 00:10:09.710
knowing that you didn't do it? Yeah. We were
00:10:09.710 --> 00:10:12.250
at dinner after the round and he was like, sorry,
00:10:12.289 --> 00:10:15.690
man. That boulder was so easy. Literally, you
00:10:15.690 --> 00:10:17.769
couldn't not do that boulder. I was like, yeah,
00:10:17.830 --> 00:10:19.990
fair enough. Also, how'd that zone go on number
00:10:19.990 --> 00:10:26.809
five? Probably should have done that one. That
00:10:26.809 --> 00:10:29.529
was the one I wish I had done. But it wasn't
00:10:29.529 --> 00:10:31.710
like I dropped the top or like mentally fumbled.
00:10:31.769 --> 00:10:34.090
It was just like a move felt hard and I didn't
00:10:34.090 --> 00:10:37.669
do it and that's okay. And then four or three
00:10:37.669 --> 00:10:40.389
like felt hard and I didn't do it and that was
00:10:40.389 --> 00:10:43.070
okay. I think I got two tops or three tops. Like
00:10:43.070 --> 00:10:47.169
for me, I'm not that motivated or distressed
00:10:47.169 --> 00:10:49.230
when I don't do the power block that only two
00:10:49.230 --> 00:10:52.450
dudes do. That's like feels fine to me. I'm not
00:10:52.450 --> 00:10:58.360
upset about that. And then five, I was... A little
00:10:58.360 --> 00:11:01.379
bummed about because that was also a boulder
00:11:01.379 --> 00:11:03.340
that I probably should have done. Like arguably
00:11:03.340 --> 00:11:05.519
in a different day. Wait, you mean number four?
00:11:06.080 --> 00:11:09.919
Number four, yeah. The slab. In like a different
00:11:09.919 --> 00:11:13.320
day, I flashed that boulder, I think. And it
00:11:13.320 --> 00:11:16.379
ended up taking me like all four minutes to find
00:11:16.379 --> 00:11:20.019
or five minutes to find just the zone. And then
00:11:20.019 --> 00:11:22.539
when I found the zone, I was like, oh, that was
00:11:22.539 --> 00:11:24.960
like really easy. It was super chill to get there
00:11:24.960 --> 00:11:29.100
once I figured out the way. and that felt like
00:11:29.100 --> 00:11:31.419
I was getting flustered and, like, just bad decision
00:11:31.419 --> 00:11:34.039
-making. And so that was, like, kind of a bummer,
00:11:34.039 --> 00:11:36.419
and two was kind of a bummer, and then the result
00:11:36.419 --> 00:11:40.460
overall was kind of a bummer. I was, like, kind
00:11:40.460 --> 00:11:42.259
of thought that maybe four zones was going to
00:11:42.259 --> 00:11:46.000
be better than second to last place. Oh, yeah.
00:11:46.279 --> 00:11:48.580
Yeah, I guess it was a high -scoring round. Yeah,
00:11:48.700 --> 00:11:50.580
it was a super high -scoring round. It was, like,
00:11:50.600 --> 00:11:53.720
weird because two of the boulders, like, didn't
00:11:53.720 --> 00:11:58.860
go for a lot of people. But then a lot of people
00:11:58.860 --> 00:12:02.000
like last second squeaked out some of the boulders.
00:12:02.039 --> 00:12:07.639
Like Colin said, number two was piss easy. And
00:12:07.639 --> 00:12:11.200
so everyone did it. I wouldn't say a white at
00:12:11.200 --> 00:12:14.220
BP is necessarily easy. And for reference, white
00:12:14.220 --> 00:12:17.320
at BP is V8 to V10. It's funny too, because I
00:12:17.320 --> 00:12:19.299
was like, there's no way it's a white. Like I
00:12:19.299 --> 00:12:22.039
set a white set BP and like we have probably
00:12:22.039 --> 00:12:27.029
the stiffest BP in the country. Greg would never
00:12:27.029 --> 00:12:29.070
let me get away with calling that a white boulder.
00:12:30.409 --> 00:12:32.169
Never let me get away with calling that a white
00:12:32.169 --> 00:12:36.830
boulder. Maybe bottom mint, but still. But then
00:12:36.830 --> 00:12:39.490
on that caliber, bottom mint's supposed to be
00:12:39.490 --> 00:12:44.110
V11, and V11 as a power boulder in World Cup
00:12:44.110 --> 00:12:48.190
is crazy. I think we talked about this last time.
00:12:51.210 --> 00:12:54.929
Logistically, the power boulders can be... v14
00:12:54.929 --> 00:12:58.610
or v15 and they'll get done in a world cup format
00:12:58.610 --> 00:13:01.370
in a world cup format yeah like in a semi -final
00:13:01.370 --> 00:13:06.250
they'll they'll get tops um there was one in
00:13:06.250 --> 00:13:09.629
china that was colin said was like impossible
00:13:09.629 --> 00:13:13.350
and then it got two tops he was like it was 8b
00:13:13.350 --> 00:13:16.110
from the zone to the top but you don't feel like
00:13:16.110 --> 00:13:19.529
you're a power boulder no i mean i'm like i i
00:13:20.330 --> 00:13:23.129
have done hard things and can do hard things,
00:13:23.250 --> 00:13:25.450
but I definitely would not consider myself, like,
00:13:25.509 --> 00:13:28.149
in the strong end of the field. Would you say,
00:13:28.210 --> 00:13:32.570
like, that the power boulders in World Cups are
00:13:32.570 --> 00:13:35.889
maybe, like, harder in difficulty compared to,
00:13:35.970 --> 00:13:39.690
like, cordo moves or slab? Oh, for sure, yeah.
00:13:39.990 --> 00:13:43.389
Just, like, because of the, like, what they're
00:13:43.389 --> 00:13:49.889
asking. Like, if you make the... 13 or v14 quarter
00:13:49.889 --> 00:13:55.090
move and it's asking like risk and it's also
00:13:55.090 --> 00:13:58.190
asking like body position like the boulder one
00:13:58.190 --> 00:14:02.590
and semis which was the quarter boulder was risky
00:14:02.590 --> 00:14:06.690
but really what it was asking was like finding
00:14:06.690 --> 00:14:10.669
the right trajectory of that and so like find
00:14:10.669 --> 00:14:14.629
that was diff like difficult enough on its own
00:14:14.629 --> 00:14:18.100
that the like physicality of the boulder Didn't
00:14:18.100 --> 00:14:20.159
have to be that hard. And if it was that hard,
00:14:20.259 --> 00:14:23.980
then you would have significantly lower tops
00:14:23.980 --> 00:14:29.179
if no tops on that move. There's definitely less
00:14:29.179 --> 00:14:32.320
cordo in qualifiers, so I can speak less to how
00:14:32.320 --> 00:14:36.440
difficult they actually are. But just as someone
00:14:36.440 --> 00:14:41.639
who sets and has set comps and has my hand in
00:14:41.639 --> 00:14:44.820
that kind of field, you really don't have to
00:14:44.820 --> 00:14:50.200
make... As any other attributes that make a boulder
00:14:50.200 --> 00:14:52.620
difficult go up, then you can lower the intensity
00:14:52.620 --> 00:14:55.980
of the boulder. Versus a straightforward power
00:14:55.980 --> 00:15:00.539
boulder, you can make it V15. If there's an easily
00:15:00.539 --> 00:15:06.059
readable sequence and down -pulling holds, then
00:15:06.059 --> 00:15:09.980
the majority of those dudes are so strong. They
00:15:09.980 --> 00:15:14.100
will go out climbing once a year and just like...
00:15:14.350 --> 00:15:18.350
dookie on every double digit boulder in an area
00:15:18.350 --> 00:15:23.610
like adam shahar went to uh switzerland after
00:15:23.610 --> 00:15:28.350
prague last year or so i think it was prague
00:15:28.350 --> 00:15:32.330
and he he had like a hundred digit day or 100
00:15:32.330 --> 00:15:37.330
v point day where he climbed like 2v14s 3v13s
00:15:37.330 --> 00:15:41.070
and like 4v12s all in a day which is crazy to
00:15:41.070 --> 00:15:43.389
me because like if I climb AV14, I'm psyched.
00:15:43.570 --> 00:15:47.470
Right, yeah. Like I climbed AV13 yesterday and
00:15:47.470 --> 00:15:50.289
I was like geeked out of my mind. Congrats. It
00:15:50.289 --> 00:15:53.850
took me 20 sessions. Oh, geez. Well, congrats
00:15:53.850 --> 00:15:56.330
on finally getting it. So I guess like logistically,
00:15:56.450 --> 00:15:59.309
if there is such a hard power boulder in like
00:15:59.309 --> 00:16:02.070
a World Cup semis or finals and you only have
00:16:02.070 --> 00:16:05.850
four minutes, that's not a lot of time if you
00:16:05.850 --> 00:16:09.879
like mess up the first time. rest enough and
00:16:09.879 --> 00:16:12.740
do it again does that kind of do you feel like
00:16:12.740 --> 00:16:15.139
that kind of makes it an issue in terms of like
00:16:15.139 --> 00:16:17.980
watchability interest because like you can't
00:16:17.980 --> 00:16:20.440
i don't know it only like your tries only get
00:16:20.440 --> 00:16:22.279
worse from there right if you only have four
00:16:22.279 --> 00:16:26.620
minutes totally um i personally don't think so
00:16:26.620 --> 00:16:29.519
i i like really enjoy watching the straightforward
00:16:29.519 --> 00:16:33.200
power boulders like at this point for me watching
00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:39.299
climate competitions i enjoy like when they give
00:16:39.299 --> 00:16:42.639
us like straightforward straightforward ish but
00:16:42.639 --> 00:16:45.940
like what people would call traditional rock
00:16:45.940 --> 00:16:50.759
climbing power blocks um like men's four and
00:16:50.759 --> 00:16:53.659
the final was a good example of that it wasn't
00:16:53.659 --> 00:16:56.960
my favorite boulder but and there was like a
00:16:56.960 --> 00:17:01.059
little bit of complexity and risk um but like
00:17:01.059 --> 00:17:05.170
it boiled down to really bad crimp and a really
00:17:05.170 --> 00:17:07.910
bad sloper and I think everyone climbed it wrong
00:17:07.910 --> 00:17:10.390
I think you're supposed to do like some flip
00:17:10.390 --> 00:17:15.390
but like that was pretty close to a rock climb
00:17:15.390 --> 00:17:18.750
and it was by far the most fun boulder to watch
00:17:18.750 --> 00:17:22.130
for me obviously part of it's like it's the fourth
00:17:22.130 --> 00:17:24.349
boulder so everything comes down to it and it's
00:17:24.349 --> 00:17:29.160
like all boils down to the last boulder but that
00:17:29.160 --> 00:17:30.880
was like the most out of all of all the climbs
00:17:30.880 --> 00:17:32.920
that was the most enjoyable one and that was
00:17:32.920 --> 00:17:34.819
honestly the one that i like stopped talking
00:17:34.819 --> 00:17:36.539
to my friends and was like oh i'm psyched to
00:17:36.539 --> 00:17:40.859
watch this this is sick um the other thing too
00:17:40.859 --> 00:17:43.619
is like i mean maybe people spend less time on
00:17:43.619 --> 00:17:46.079
more time on the pads when there's like a hard
00:17:46.079 --> 00:17:49.460
boulder but in a four minute round for a final
00:17:49.460 --> 00:17:52.539
like you'll give it a go and you'll either do
00:17:52.539 --> 00:17:54.940
it or you won't and then you'll rest for like
00:17:54.940 --> 00:17:58.160
the minute And then you'll give it a go again
00:17:58.160 --> 00:18:01.519
and that will be the end of the round. And so
00:18:01.519 --> 00:18:04.099
maybe it ends up having slower rounds. But I
00:18:04.099 --> 00:18:08.220
think for anyone that enjoys rock climbing and
00:18:08.220 --> 00:18:10.519
enjoys watching comps, I think it might be just
00:18:10.519 --> 00:18:12.099
as exciting. I don't know. I would advocate for
00:18:12.099 --> 00:18:14.700
it to be just as exciting. Yeah, I think it depends.
00:18:14.980 --> 00:18:17.539
I think for me, sometimes it's sad to watch if
00:18:17.539 --> 00:18:21.079
they just get shut down and then that's all you
00:18:21.079 --> 00:18:25.119
see. That's also kind of sad to see. It depends.
00:18:25.380 --> 00:18:27.319
But then it is nice to like see later rounds
00:18:27.319 --> 00:18:29.480
where people like actually show that it's doable
00:18:29.480 --> 00:18:32.700
and it looks like totally older. But yeah, I
00:18:32.700 --> 00:18:35.440
could see an argument for both ways. Okay. So
00:18:35.440 --> 00:18:39.299
kind of a long intro, I guess. But for those
00:18:39.299 --> 00:18:42.480
who don't know your background, let's get into
00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:45.859
back to the beginning where how you got into
00:18:45.859 --> 00:18:49.559
climbing and competing. Okay. Yeah. So I started
00:18:49.559 --> 00:18:53.180
climbing with my dad when I was like two or three.
00:18:54.509 --> 00:18:56.569
He would just bring me outside climbing with
00:18:56.569 --> 00:18:58.069
him on the weekends. That was like our thing.
00:18:58.490 --> 00:19:03.089
It was like either skiing or climbing. And then
00:19:03.089 --> 00:19:07.069
when I was 10, I really enjoyed skiing. I didn't
00:19:07.069 --> 00:19:08.930
really like climbing that much. And then when
00:19:08.930 --> 00:19:13.450
I was 10, I switched schools and we had a climbing
00:19:13.450 --> 00:19:16.390
wall at the school. And I was like telling everyone
00:19:16.390 --> 00:19:19.210
how awesome I was at climbing. And one of the
00:19:19.210 --> 00:19:21.769
kids was like, oh, you're not that good. There's
00:19:21.769 --> 00:19:24.519
this kid, Quincy. And he got second at nationals
00:19:24.519 --> 00:19:26.859
last year. And at that point, I didn't know there
00:19:26.859 --> 00:19:29.079
was like climbing comms or nationals or any of
00:19:29.079 --> 00:19:32.140
this, anything about, I really didn't know anything.
00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:35.839
And I was like, whoa, okay. And I just like my
00:19:35.839 --> 00:19:38.740
competitive spirit was like, I need to do that
00:19:38.740 --> 00:19:40.619
then because obviously this kid's better than
00:19:40.619 --> 00:19:43.740
me and I need to be better than him. So I like
00:19:43.740 --> 00:19:45.859
joined the climbing team with Quincy and we quickly
00:19:45.859 --> 00:19:50.579
became best friends. And then. I started doing
00:19:50.579 --> 00:19:54.500
comps and fell in love with doing comps. And
00:19:54.500 --> 00:19:57.359
then within a couple of weeks of joining the
00:19:57.359 --> 00:19:58.900
climbing team, I was like, Dad, I'm going to
00:19:58.900 --> 00:20:03.039
be a professional rock climber. And my parents,
00:20:03.099 --> 00:20:05.339
super supportive, were like, okay, cool. If you
00:20:05.339 --> 00:20:07.420
change your mind, let us know. But we'll support
00:20:07.420 --> 00:20:10.720
you as long as you want to do that. And I'm 26,
00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:14.160
almost 27, and I'm still doing it. You had a
00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:20.109
rock climbing wall in your school? Yeah. Well,
00:20:20.109 --> 00:20:22.029
that's like pretty rare to find. I actually,
00:20:22.130 --> 00:20:24.289
in my middle school, we also had a rock climbing
00:20:24.289 --> 00:20:26.450
wall, which was super strange thinking back on
00:20:26.450 --> 00:20:28.269
it because like nobody has a rock climbing wall
00:20:28.269 --> 00:20:32.450
in school. No, totally. I think my dad actually
00:20:32.450 --> 00:20:38.849
built it. And he's like, he's a super, super
00:20:38.849 --> 00:20:43.450
talented. I'm trying to think of the right word.
00:20:43.630 --> 00:20:45.690
He's really good at building things and doing
00:20:45.690 --> 00:20:50.089
things. And this is kind of a tangent, but, and
00:20:50.089 --> 00:20:52.990
maybe a great, yeah, it's kind of a tangent,
00:20:53.049 --> 00:20:55.450
but he was always building stuff for me and my
00:20:55.450 --> 00:21:00.349
sister and like the school and stuff. And I'm
00:21:00.349 --> 00:21:03.970
always building crazy like gates and stuff. Okay.
00:21:04.549 --> 00:21:08.309
And decks and all kind of everything, all the
00:21:08.309 --> 00:21:10.269
things. Yeah. It was like a super alternative
00:21:10.269 --> 00:21:14.650
school. This kind of ties back into it. I was.
00:21:17.079 --> 00:21:21.859
super ADHD as a kid, still am. And so my parents
00:21:21.859 --> 00:21:24.819
quickly realized that like also super dyslexic.
00:21:25.160 --> 00:21:28.680
So like the first school, basically my parents
00:21:28.680 --> 00:21:30.599
were like, we're putting him in private school.
00:21:31.140 --> 00:21:34.480
And so like he doesn't just get left behind because
00:21:34.480 --> 00:21:37.440
if he goes to public school, like he will never
00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:40.579
learn to read and he'll like never get anywhere
00:21:40.579 --> 00:21:42.799
in life because I was just always bouncing off
00:21:42.799 --> 00:21:46.640
the walls and like. Couldn't read and so like
00:21:46.640 --> 00:21:49.579
they put me in this super alternative school
00:21:49.579 --> 00:21:53.140
called Little Earth and it was like this massive
00:21:53.140 --> 00:21:58.920
they had this huge playground and the School
00:21:58.920 --> 00:22:01.380
was like structured around a lot of like outdoor
00:22:01.380 --> 00:22:07.240
playtime And then even in that sits like situation
00:22:07.240 --> 00:22:12.160
I had to be like have special needs like the
00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:14.460
teachers would pull me aside and be like, okay,
00:22:14.519 --> 00:22:16.819
go run three laps around the playground because
00:22:16.819 --> 00:22:18.859
you're distracting all the kids and you obviously
00:22:18.859 --> 00:22:25.539
need to move for a bit. But yeah, it was pretty
00:22:25.539 --> 00:22:27.400
funny. But yeah, my dad ended up building a climbing
00:22:27.400 --> 00:22:31.059
wall for it. And I think that was like, they
00:22:31.059 --> 00:22:34.900
built a climbing wall and then I immediately
00:22:34.900 --> 00:22:38.269
was like, okay, I'm really going to climb. Okay.
00:22:38.369 --> 00:22:41.049
And since you went into it a little bit, you
00:22:41.049 --> 00:22:43.869
mentioned before you kind of recently felt like
00:22:43.869 --> 00:22:46.690
you used climbing as like self -medication for
00:22:46.690 --> 00:22:49.069
ADHD. What does that kind of look like for you?
00:22:49.490 --> 00:22:54.150
Growing up, I guess the best way to tell the
00:22:54.150 --> 00:22:57.509
story is like, as far as that goes is last year,
00:22:57.630 --> 00:23:00.569
I like went back home and my dad and me went
00:23:00.569 --> 00:23:03.170
climbing and like on the road trip or drive to
00:23:03.170 --> 00:23:05.069
the crag, he was like, hey, we have this hard
00:23:05.069 --> 00:23:07.910
conversation. Oh, God. Okay. He was like, recently
00:23:07.910 --> 00:23:10.170
me and my mom found out that we probably have
00:23:10.170 --> 00:23:14.589
ADHD. Yeah, I know. We also kind of think that
00:23:14.589 --> 00:23:16.490
you possibly have it. And I was like, dad, we
00:23:16.490 --> 00:23:19.750
know. That's why I went to all those special
00:23:19.750 --> 00:23:21.730
schools as a kid is because I couldn't sit still
00:23:21.730 --> 00:23:25.549
all day. They had to pay someone a bunch of money
00:23:25.549 --> 00:23:31.109
to make sure I would learn anything. I always
00:23:31.109 --> 00:23:33.789
knew I had ADHD and it's always been a part of
00:23:33.789 --> 00:23:37.200
my life and we just kind of decided not to. medicaid
00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:39.619
for it i kind of and that was like the funny
00:23:39.619 --> 00:23:41.440
part of that conversation was they were like
00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:45.859
we think you have adhd we knew this i thought
00:23:45.859 --> 00:23:47.700
we just decided as a family we weren't going
00:23:47.700 --> 00:23:50.039
to put me on medication he was like no which
00:23:50.039 --> 00:23:52.619
i thought was hilarious because i've always known
00:23:52.619 --> 00:23:55.220
um and i was just like my parents won't put me
00:23:55.220 --> 00:23:57.799
on medication but it does sound nice because
00:23:57.799 --> 00:23:59.960
i would love to be able to do what you guys do
00:23:59.960 --> 00:24:05.960
which is sit down and write um but then The other,
00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:09.720
like, I think more applicable to, like, what
00:24:09.720 --> 00:24:14.180
I've learned about my climbing is I also have
00:24:14.180 --> 00:24:16.599
other family members that, like, have struggled
00:24:16.599 --> 00:24:20.079
with, like, depression, anxiety. And I always
00:24:20.079 --> 00:24:21.680
thought that was kind of, like, their thing and
00:24:21.680 --> 00:24:26.759
I was fine. And then after, like, taking time
00:24:26.759 --> 00:24:28.640
away from climbing and, like, not being able
00:24:28.640 --> 00:24:31.619
to exercise for long bouts, I, like, started
00:24:31.619 --> 00:24:37.140
to realize that I, like, probably also have some
00:24:37.140 --> 00:24:42.500
kind of you know depression and anxiety and that
00:24:42.500 --> 00:24:44.420
i've just been like self -medicating for the
00:24:44.420 --> 00:24:48.339
last 20 some years via climbing and exercise
00:24:48.339 --> 00:24:52.380
using the dopamine from exercising to like i
00:24:52.380 --> 00:24:55.720
see counterbalance the lack of dopamine that
00:24:55.720 --> 00:24:59.339
my brain produces yeah makes sense which like
00:24:59.339 --> 00:25:02.519
i think has structured and created a lot of the
00:25:03.069 --> 00:25:06.210
routines that i've created around climbing um
00:25:06.210 --> 00:25:10.309
which would include like going to the gym at
00:25:10.309 --> 00:25:12.930
nine o 'clock at night after a long day of work
00:25:12.930 --> 00:25:17.369
um and like just absurd amounts of like just
00:25:17.369 --> 00:25:20.490
absurd things that i like also recently realized
00:25:20.490 --> 00:25:23.269
because me and my girlfriend moved in together
00:25:23.269 --> 00:25:27.289
and so we're like planning and scheduling around
00:25:27.289 --> 00:25:29.849
each other she's like you're crazy like why are
00:25:29.849 --> 00:25:31.849
you doing this and i was like i don't know it's
00:25:31.849 --> 00:25:34.160
just how i live my life And it's like because
00:25:34.160 --> 00:25:36.740
I need to get outside every day and do something
00:25:36.740 --> 00:25:40.380
like multiple times a day to like get that dopamine.
00:25:41.000 --> 00:25:44.299
I guess does it kind of feel like you're like
00:25:44.299 --> 00:25:47.920
one reliable source of joy in life? For sure.
00:25:48.019 --> 00:25:51.559
I wouldn't say it's my like only source of joy
00:25:51.559 --> 00:25:55.180
in life, but I will like find myself sinking
00:25:55.180 --> 00:25:58.420
into like, you know, bits of like anxiety or
00:25:58.420 --> 00:26:01.160
depression and then be like and realize that
00:26:01.160 --> 00:26:03.650
like I just need to go. do something outside
00:26:03.650 --> 00:26:05.950
or like go to the gym and exercise and then i
00:26:05.950 --> 00:26:08.869
feel significantly better why that is i don't
00:26:08.869 --> 00:26:11.349
know i haven't like been tested or gone like
00:26:11.349 --> 00:26:14.769
i just have been kind of making correlations
00:26:14.769 --> 00:26:18.450
between how i feel and how i what i do i'm like
00:26:18.450 --> 00:26:23.609
okay like uh i do have weird gym routines and
00:26:23.609 --> 00:26:26.750
i also feel really bad when i don't do things
00:26:26.750 --> 00:26:28.970
outside or exercise and i'm sure everyone is
00:26:28.970 --> 00:26:30.890
like yeah i feel bad when i don't do things like
00:26:30.890 --> 00:26:34.170
go outside But it's, like, I think to another
00:26:34.170 --> 00:26:38.190
level of, like, I'll, like, really start to hate
00:26:38.190 --> 00:26:39.750
my life. I'm like, oh, it's because I didn't
00:26:39.750 --> 00:26:42.170
go out. I didn't exercise. I need to go to the
00:26:42.170 --> 00:26:45.869
gym. Yeah, that makes sense. Okay. Which could
00:26:45.869 --> 00:26:48.509
be a bad thing, but also I feel like it's partially
00:26:48.509 --> 00:26:51.289
part of my success in climbing is the fact that,
00:26:51.329 --> 00:26:55.369
like, I'm just constantly going to the gym. Sometimes
00:26:55.369 --> 00:26:57.950
it's really useless time in the gym. It's, like,
00:26:57.970 --> 00:27:02.160
not beneficial. time in the gym like non -effective
00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:06.700
really yeah like there's definitely an effective
00:27:06.700 --> 00:27:10.380
way to get everything done and be an athlete
00:27:10.380 --> 00:27:12.880
you know be an athlete and then there's like
00:27:12.880 --> 00:27:15.140
I have to go to the gym three days a week or
00:27:15.140 --> 00:27:17.539
not three days a week three times a day and I'm
00:27:17.539 --> 00:27:19.680
mill around for a long time and I'm just like
00:27:19.680 --> 00:27:22.440
doing random things that like are not that but
00:27:22.440 --> 00:27:24.680
it's just like I need to go to do something to
00:27:24.680 --> 00:27:27.079
feel good well yeah thank you for sharing that
00:27:27.079 --> 00:27:29.180
first of all I think that There's probably a
00:27:29.180 --> 00:27:32.279
lot of people who can relate to that and experience
00:27:32.279 --> 00:27:35.839
something similar. Do you like have plans to
00:27:35.839 --> 00:27:38.059
get medicated, you think? Or does this work out
00:27:38.059 --> 00:27:40.220
all right for you? I don't have any plans on
00:27:40.220 --> 00:27:43.319
getting medicated. I think about it often. I
00:27:43.319 --> 00:27:46.720
don't have really any interest in medicating
00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:53.319
for like depression or anxiety. Although like
00:27:53.319 --> 00:27:56.529
sometimes I'm like, this sucks. It's pretty manageable
00:27:56.529 --> 00:27:58.769
and I've been self -medicating for so long and
00:27:58.769 --> 00:28:01.970
at no point I'm ever like the super depressive
00:28:01.970 --> 00:28:05.069
dude who walks around. It's never gotten so bad
00:28:05.069 --> 00:28:06.950
that I'm like, oh, I need to get medicated because
00:28:06.950 --> 00:28:10.250
it's super bad. It's mostly just like I hadn't
00:28:10.250 --> 00:28:12.289
started to notice it and was like, oh, that probably
00:28:12.289 --> 00:28:15.869
explains my behaviors. I've thought about ADHD
00:28:15.869 --> 00:28:22.690
on and off and it could be really nice to get
00:28:22.690 --> 00:28:25.650
medicated for that. it just sounds like a lot
00:28:25.650 --> 00:28:30.230
of work and also i'm not like really sure if
00:28:30.230 --> 00:28:37.009
i'm like the benefits outweigh the cons and maybe
00:28:37.009 --> 00:28:39.730
there are no cons i don't know it's just been
00:28:39.730 --> 00:28:42.190
something i've been like programmed to not like
00:28:42.190 --> 00:28:45.549
i'm like kind of scared of medicating for that
00:28:45.549 --> 00:28:48.930
and i'm like well i'm doing fine so far so like
00:28:48.930 --> 00:28:51.390
do i really need to like mess with it or yeah
00:28:51.390 --> 00:28:56.930
so i just like I've kind of structured my life
00:28:56.930 --> 00:29:00.069
around not needing to do the things that I struggle
00:29:00.069 --> 00:29:04.369
with. And like, I think we talked about this
00:29:04.369 --> 00:29:07.309
last time was like a couple times a year. It
00:29:07.309 --> 00:29:09.869
really sucks because I like, you know, can't
00:29:09.869 --> 00:29:12.869
sit down and write. So like taxes, those suck.
00:29:12.990 --> 00:29:15.210
Those are like the bane of my existence because
00:29:15.210 --> 00:29:17.150
like the act of like sitting down and typing
00:29:17.150 --> 00:29:20.490
is like really difficult for me. And like focusing
00:29:20.490 --> 00:29:23.640
long enough to like. do something i'm not interested
00:29:23.640 --> 00:29:28.740
in doing taxes really hard so like currently
00:29:28.740 --> 00:29:31.640
i still haven't filed last year's taxes i filed
00:29:31.640 --> 00:29:34.619
like an extension but like yeah like it's it's
00:29:34.619 --> 00:29:37.640
bad but it's like one time a year i need to just
00:29:37.640 --> 00:29:40.119
like do the thing that sucks really bad but then
00:29:40.119 --> 00:29:42.339
the rest of my life like i don't really need
00:29:42.339 --> 00:29:45.079
i've like gone out of my way to structure my
00:29:45.079 --> 00:29:47.000
life or in such a way that i like don't need
00:29:47.000 --> 00:29:50.140
to do things i have a hard time doing yeah i
00:29:50.140 --> 00:29:53.289
mean i think there might be some con i mean i
00:29:53.289 --> 00:29:56.250
don't really know what the cons are i mean now
00:29:56.250 --> 00:29:57.769
i'm just speculating because i'm not a doctor
00:29:57.769 --> 00:30:00.750
but you should probably ask a doctor i you probably
00:30:00.750 --> 00:30:02.609
should it's one of the things i'm really bad
00:30:02.609 --> 00:30:05.049
at is like scheduling doctor's appointments so
00:30:05.049 --> 00:30:06.450
that's probably why i haven't done it yet and
00:30:06.450 --> 00:30:09.769
also i guess just want to put a disclaimer that
00:30:09.769 --> 00:30:11.549
by self -medicating you just mean like through
00:30:11.549 --> 00:30:14.650
climbing and not just like taking random medications
00:30:14.650 --> 00:30:20.069
no yeah i yeah no just just climbing just excessive
00:30:20.069 --> 00:30:23.789
amounts of exercise yeah so i guess with your
00:30:23.789 --> 00:30:27.809
self -medicating for adhd and climbing what does
00:30:27.809 --> 00:30:30.049
your training schedule end up looking like or
00:30:30.049 --> 00:30:32.509
is it really just like you kind of go with the
00:30:32.509 --> 00:30:35.029
flow If you're interested in ad -free episodes
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and would like to unlock over four hours of deleted
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00:30:40.309 --> 00:30:43.890
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help out non -monetarily. Liking, commenting,
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and sharing helps a great deal as well. Back
00:31:07.720 --> 00:31:11.000
to the show. This is probably also a byproduct
00:31:11.000 --> 00:31:13.700
of the ADHD is I just really go by the flow.
00:31:14.160 --> 00:31:17.920
So it could be more structured. I've had structured
00:31:17.920 --> 00:31:21.339
plans. Right now, I don't have a coach that writes
00:31:21.339 --> 00:31:25.119
me a training plan. So I don't have a structured
00:31:25.119 --> 00:31:27.400
plan. The other thing that's changed recently
00:31:27.400 --> 00:31:31.259
is last January, I started working full time.
00:31:31.799 --> 00:31:34.400
As a route setter and as like front desk of the
00:31:34.400 --> 00:31:39.519
gym. And it is like very time consuming. And
00:31:39.519 --> 00:31:43.500
so I've had to cut back probably like 60 to 70
00:31:43.500 --> 00:31:47.500
% of my training. Oh, geez. Which, yeah, is a
00:31:47.500 --> 00:31:49.799
lot. I like have been in this constant state
00:31:49.799 --> 00:31:54.359
of like I'm getting good results, but I'm also
00:31:54.359 --> 00:31:57.099
in like constant anxiety that I'm not training
00:31:57.099 --> 00:31:59.220
enough for the last year, which is kind of a
00:31:59.220 --> 00:32:04.700
bummer. because I'm just like yeah in a constant
00:32:04.700 --> 00:32:06.680
state of like I really should have trained today
00:32:06.680 --> 00:32:08.319
and I should have trained yesterday and I'm always
00:32:08.319 --> 00:32:10.819
tired and this sucks and like I'm not doing enough
00:32:10.819 --> 00:32:15.839
and I'm like yeah I'm not doing enough but also
00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:20.039
I'm in the best shape of my life and I'm getting
00:32:20.039 --> 00:32:24.740
good results so part of me still like fires right
00:32:24.740 --> 00:32:27.240
back with like well how good could it be if you
00:32:27.240 --> 00:32:31.920
were were training enough so I don't know, but
00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:38.539
right now it's not a lot. Um, it's, I set two
00:32:38.539 --> 00:32:40.900
days a week. So those are like two of my climbing
00:32:40.900 --> 00:32:47.420
days. And then I climb when I can, um, between
00:32:47.420 --> 00:32:51.339
like most of it's like schedule, most of it's
00:32:51.339 --> 00:32:53.940
schedule and another part of it's just like dealing
00:32:53.940 --> 00:32:58.259
with being tired. Like I, I can't climb after
00:32:58.259 --> 00:33:01.299
I work. I just like don't have enough energy
00:33:01.299 --> 00:33:04.099
after. So the sessions are just like worthless.
00:33:04.240 --> 00:33:06.759
So I might as well just rest and then wait for
00:33:06.759 --> 00:33:11.279
a day that I have energy to climb. So that's
00:33:11.279 --> 00:33:13.000
mostly what I mean by like I climb when I can
00:33:13.000 --> 00:33:15.799
because it's like the days that I have energy
00:33:15.799 --> 00:33:18.420
to climb, I climb, I train. And then the days
00:33:18.420 --> 00:33:21.339
that I don't, I just rest. So like how many climbing
00:33:21.339 --> 00:33:27.019
days would you say a week? So last week I did
00:33:27.019 --> 00:33:33.680
the comp. Saturday, Sunday. No. All day Saturday.
00:33:34.059 --> 00:33:37.960
And then I rested Sunday. And then I sat Monday,
00:33:38.119 --> 00:33:42.319
Tuesday, Thursday. And then I tried to climb
00:33:42.319 --> 00:33:46.200
Thursday night and it was bad. Yeah. And then
00:33:46.200 --> 00:33:50.079
I rested Friday, Saturday. And then I climbed
00:33:50.079 --> 00:33:53.400
yesterday. And then I tried to do a session today
00:33:53.400 --> 00:33:56.099
and I was wrecked. So it was like... pretty bad
00:33:56.099 --> 00:33:58.220
I went in and like warmed up essentially and
00:33:58.220 --> 00:34:00.859
I was like it's just not worth my time and went
00:34:00.859 --> 00:34:04.799
home and then I'll set tomorrow and Thursday
00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:10.380
and then compete Friday Saturday I mean so you
00:34:10.380 --> 00:34:12.900
count like setting days as climbing days because
00:34:12.900 --> 00:34:15.679
like setting is a totally different exhaustion
00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:19.380
to like training yeah exactly I I've started
00:34:19.380 --> 00:34:21.219
to count them as climbing days only because if
00:34:21.219 --> 00:34:24.820
I don't my climbing days look really bad so it's
00:34:24.820 --> 00:34:28.489
like And also I'm still in good shape and like
00:34:28.489 --> 00:34:33.230
still getting stronger. So I assume that part
00:34:33.230 --> 00:34:36.809
of it's from setting. It's not optimized, but
00:34:36.809 --> 00:34:41.789
like I am still, they do still count as climbing
00:34:41.789 --> 00:34:44.050
days to me. Unless they're like, if we do like
00:34:44.050 --> 00:34:48.050
a slab day where we're like super low level stuff.
00:34:48.309 --> 00:34:52.510
But even then I'm still like, it's, it's. I might
00:34:52.510 --> 00:34:55.010
as well just go to the TC and like do, it'd be
00:34:55.010 --> 00:34:56.510
the same as going to the TC and doing like a
00:34:56.510 --> 00:35:00.150
no hands day. You also implemented a mint circuit.
00:35:00.250 --> 00:35:04.050
And so quite frequently I'll like set a mint
00:35:04.050 --> 00:35:06.969
boulder, which is like between V11 and B15 and
00:35:06.969 --> 00:35:09.449
then like four on it all day. So that's like
00:35:09.449 --> 00:35:13.849
counts as to me as max bouldering. Wow. Well,
00:35:13.989 --> 00:35:17.590
it's kind of crazy to hear that you really don't
00:35:17.590 --> 00:35:21.409
get like that many. training specific days. I
00:35:21.409 --> 00:35:24.130
feel like maybe back in the day, it sounded like
00:35:24.130 --> 00:35:27.469
people were more lax about their climbing competitions
00:35:27.469 --> 00:35:31.309
and training for it. But nowadays, I hear a lot
00:35:31.309 --> 00:35:33.849
of more athletes saying that they're doing like
00:35:33.849 --> 00:35:36.650
five days a week, like all day in the gym with
00:35:36.650 --> 00:35:39.110
like specific boulder set for them, things like
00:35:39.110 --> 00:35:41.309
that. So it's kind of crazy to hear that you
00:35:41.309 --> 00:35:44.130
kind of have this wild schedule and still manage
00:35:44.130 --> 00:35:48.420
to even make it into like semis. Kind of crazy
00:35:48.420 --> 00:35:51.780
to hear. Yeah, I don't know why it's working
00:35:51.780 --> 00:35:56.579
for me. And to throw another curveball at you,
00:35:56.679 --> 00:36:04.079
my climbing up until team trials was, I did six
00:36:04.079 --> 00:36:07.880
weeks at Jumbo Love, climbing only on that route
00:36:07.880 --> 00:36:13.400
every other day. And then I did, I took five
00:36:13.400 --> 00:36:19.849
days off, and then I went to, Spain and climbed
00:36:19.849 --> 00:36:22.650
like two days on, one day off, or one day on,
00:36:22.710 --> 00:36:27.030
one day off for a month just in Spain on a rope.
00:36:27.550 --> 00:36:34.309
And then I took eight days off. And then the
00:36:34.309 --> 00:36:37.150
month leading up to team trials, I only set during
00:36:37.150 --> 00:36:40.690
the week, Monday, Tuesday. And then I would drive
00:36:40.690 --> 00:36:44.489
out to the hurricane and climb Friday, Saturday,
00:36:44.489 --> 00:36:47.800
or Saturday, Sunday. both days and then come
00:36:47.800 --> 00:36:50.679
home and do just setting and that was like the
00:36:50.679 --> 00:36:53.820
only training I did leading up to team trials
00:36:53.820 --> 00:36:56.619
and then the last two weeks before team trials
00:36:56.619 --> 00:37:00.400
I took a break on my lunch break from setting
00:37:00.400 --> 00:37:03.059
and ran across the street and like I would like
00:37:03.059 --> 00:37:05.239
I finished setting at 11 ran across the street
00:37:05.239 --> 00:37:08.059
pulled on the hangboard and then did my like
00:37:08.059 --> 00:37:10.000
did a mock round and then would run straight
00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:12.619
back and finish setting because I had like an
00:37:12.619 --> 00:37:14.780
hour -long break and that was like the only TC
00:37:14.780 --> 00:37:19.289
sessions And climbing training that I did leading
00:37:19.289 --> 00:37:23.289
up to team trials. And that was it. That was
00:37:23.289 --> 00:37:31.130
all I did. So I have no idea why. Yeah, I have
00:37:31.130 --> 00:37:32.929
all of my ideas about training have gone out
00:37:32.929 --> 00:37:36.650
the window. Because before that, I did four years
00:37:36.650 --> 00:37:41.769
of pretty much no work, just TC. And that was
00:37:41.769 --> 00:37:46.769
all I did. I just trained at the TC. three to
00:37:46.769 --> 00:37:52.809
four or five days a week for like years and was
00:37:52.809 --> 00:37:55.610
getting mediocre results. And then I stopped
00:37:55.610 --> 00:37:58.230
doing that and started climbing outside and setting.
00:37:58.530 --> 00:38:01.650
Well, I mean, I'm sure that those years still
00:38:01.650 --> 00:38:05.530
like paid off in a way. For sure. Yeah. It still
00:38:05.530 --> 00:38:09.769
helps you have that like baseline for sure. But
00:38:09.769 --> 00:38:12.769
yeah. Wow. That is crazy to hear. And it does
00:38:12.769 --> 00:38:16.230
still make me wonder like. How much better you
00:38:16.230 --> 00:38:18.590
would be if you had the same crazy training routine
00:38:18.590 --> 00:38:22.750
as a lot of people do. Yeah. I try not to think
00:38:22.750 --> 00:38:25.389
about that because currently I really need my
00:38:25.389 --> 00:38:28.849
job. Yeah. Unfortunately, money is an important
00:38:28.849 --> 00:38:32.309
part. Unless someone listening has another solution.
00:38:34.429 --> 00:38:39.550
Yeah. I need a job. Yeah. Unfortunately, life
00:38:39.550 --> 00:38:42.789
moves on and we all need a job to live as well.
00:38:43.050 --> 00:38:48.820
Yeah. Well, yeah. So going into a bit more about
00:38:48.820 --> 00:38:53.219
like World Cups and USA climbing as well. I heard
00:38:53.219 --> 00:38:55.599
in another interview that you actually prefer
00:38:55.599 --> 00:38:58.699
lead climbing, but you have only been doing bouldering.
00:38:58.820 --> 00:39:02.320
So what's what happened there? Yeah, that's a
00:39:02.320 --> 00:39:09.880
funny one. So for a couple of years, I trained
00:39:09.880 --> 00:39:13.380
almost exclusively lead. I would still boulder,
00:39:13.500 --> 00:39:19.230
but. I focused most of my effort on competition
00:39:19.230 --> 00:39:24.769
lead climbing. Year after year, I would show
00:39:24.769 --> 00:39:27.750
up to nationals and team trials in the best shape
00:39:27.750 --> 00:39:32.610
of my life and then not make the team and then
00:39:32.610 --> 00:39:34.909
make the team in bouldering. I'd be like, I guess
00:39:34.909 --> 00:39:36.869
we're doing another year of bouldering and then
00:39:36.869 --> 00:39:41.409
train all year for a lead and then show up and
00:39:41.409 --> 00:39:46.599
bomb. lead nationals and team trials and make
00:39:46.599 --> 00:39:49.219
the lead team like even this year like i said
00:39:49.219 --> 00:39:53.599
all of my training up till team trials was uh
00:39:53.599 --> 00:39:58.079
climbing outside on a rope like i i climbed outside
00:39:58.079 --> 00:40:03.139
on a rope for three or four months that was like
00:40:03.139 --> 00:40:05.860
all i did and i was in really good shape i think
00:40:05.860 --> 00:40:10.199
i was on like fourth or third place on a day
00:40:10.199 --> 00:40:14.429
in america As far as like the like ranking, I
00:40:14.429 --> 00:40:16.690
was like in really good shape. I had climbed
00:40:16.690 --> 00:40:21.170
a bunch of hard routes. I was super fit and super
00:40:21.170 --> 00:40:25.530
ready for lead team trials. And I got like 24th.
00:40:27.230 --> 00:40:29.510
And I was like, cool, that was team trials. And
00:40:29.510 --> 00:40:32.710
then I won that bouldering, which happened to
00:40:32.710 --> 00:40:36.210
be the only result that would have put me on
00:40:36.210 --> 00:40:38.269
the team. And so then I did bouldering World
00:40:38.269 --> 00:40:41.239
Cups again. Yeah, what do you think it was that
00:40:41.239 --> 00:40:45.500
makes you, I don't know, like, what's the word?
00:40:45.800 --> 00:40:52.739
Not, I can't think of a nice way to say it. I
00:40:52.739 --> 00:40:55.079
see there's not a nice way to say it. How to
00:40:55.079 --> 00:40:58.639
stop choking on League Clubs. Yeah, I don't know.
00:40:58.719 --> 00:41:02.260
I would love to figure that out because I think
00:41:02.260 --> 00:41:04.059
I could be quite good at League World Cups if
00:41:04.059 --> 00:41:07.500
I could figure it out. Yeah, I mean, that's exactly
00:41:07.500 --> 00:41:10.079
what it is. It's just like straight choking in
00:41:10.079 --> 00:41:16.579
the round. I think the thing that... I don't
00:41:16.579 --> 00:41:20.400
know how to mentally change it, but the two things
00:41:20.400 --> 00:41:25.679
that I think play into it are as far as bouldering
00:41:25.679 --> 00:41:29.199
goes, even in a World Cup, I don't feel like
00:41:29.199 --> 00:41:34.190
I have to do the really hard power boulder. You
00:41:34.190 --> 00:41:38.690
didn't have to do boulders. You never have to
00:41:38.690 --> 00:41:41.690
do the power boulder unless you want to win world
00:41:41.690 --> 00:41:45.710
championships. That was the only comp I can think
00:41:45.710 --> 00:41:50.710
of this year. Someone will correct me if I'm
00:41:50.710 --> 00:41:52.909
wrong. You had to do the power boulder if you
00:41:52.909 --> 00:41:58.949
needed to win. But as far as my goals go, I don't
00:41:58.949 --> 00:42:05.429
need to do the B14. And my strong suit is figuring
00:42:05.429 --> 00:42:13.429
out things fast and being good at easier boulders.
00:42:13.829 --> 00:42:17.829
So as far as World Cups go or competition rounds
00:42:17.829 --> 00:42:21.409
go, the boulders, unless you're in the power
00:42:21.409 --> 00:42:24.210
boulder, aren't that difficult. They're in my
00:42:24.210 --> 00:42:27.389
physical capability of doing them within four
00:42:27.389 --> 00:42:30.809
minutes. And so I think I excel at doing what
00:42:30.809 --> 00:42:34.030
I can do fast. and that's why i like do well
00:42:34.030 --> 00:42:38.929
in bouldering rounds um in lead climbing i think
00:42:38.929 --> 00:42:43.829
i do not excel at like flash attempts like i
00:42:43.829 --> 00:42:46.130
don't think that's my i'm really good at like
00:42:46.130 --> 00:42:49.510
projecting and much i like really enjoy climbing
00:42:49.510 --> 00:42:52.789
really hard things and like trying hard things
00:42:52.789 --> 00:42:54.730
for a long time and figuring out and being really
00:42:54.730 --> 00:42:56.769
fit and dealing with yeah really hard things
00:42:56.769 --> 00:43:01.500
but in like lead competitions it's like uh only
00:43:01.500 --> 00:43:04.639
one try and so it's like all just about flashing
00:43:04.639 --> 00:43:08.340
um and then the other thing that i think plays
00:43:08.340 --> 00:43:13.420
into it is the style of um lead climbing which
00:43:13.420 --> 00:43:17.800
is funny enough i think you have to be like really
00:43:17.800 --> 00:43:22.079
strong to be a lead climber because it's just
00:43:22.079 --> 00:43:25.860
more straightforward and so like for lead climbing
00:43:25.860 --> 00:43:30.719
it's like in competition They're like power enduro
00:43:30.719 --> 00:43:33.139
routes. They're short power enduro routes. And
00:43:33.139 --> 00:43:37.000
so you just have to be able to climb like 8C
00:43:37.000 --> 00:43:42.239
plus or 9A power routes first try. Which just
00:43:42.239 --> 00:43:45.539
means it's like Yannick excels in lead climbing
00:43:45.539 --> 00:43:48.280
because he's just one of the strongest dudes.
00:43:49.340 --> 00:43:52.699
Period. And so all he needs is a little bit of
00:43:52.699 --> 00:43:56.280
fitness and he can just power through these lead
00:43:56.280 --> 00:43:58.929
routes. And he'll argue about that for sure.
00:43:59.010 --> 00:44:01.530
I'm sure that he's like, no, I'm in lead shape.
00:44:01.610 --> 00:44:03.369
I've been lead climbing. But I'm like, no, dude.
00:44:04.050 --> 00:44:08.150
You're just stupidly strong. And so the moves
00:44:08.150 --> 00:44:11.449
are just easier for you. Where for me, I don't
00:44:11.449 --> 00:44:14.090
know. I just like short power indoor routes are
00:44:14.090 --> 00:44:18.309
not my go -to route. So I think it has a stack
00:44:18.309 --> 00:44:21.610
of things. It's like, A, short power indoor routes,
00:44:21.750 --> 00:44:25.210
not my thing. B, first try, also not my thing.
00:44:25.510 --> 00:44:29.860
C. I get stressed and choke. Yeah. So I guess
00:44:29.860 --> 00:44:32.219
it's interesting that I guess you don't really
00:44:32.219 --> 00:44:34.179
like consider yourself like a strong climber.
00:44:34.300 --> 00:44:37.119
I mean, I, I, it depends on who I'm comparing
00:44:37.119 --> 00:44:42.579
myself against because like there's some groups
00:44:42.579 --> 00:44:46.079
that I'm super, I feel super strong in, but like
00:44:46.079 --> 00:44:50.400
as far as like the overall world where we're
00:44:50.400 --> 00:44:52.559
comparing myself to like the best of the best,
00:44:52.599 --> 00:44:55.570
I don't think that I'm like. you know like i'm
00:44:55.570 --> 00:44:59.309
not climbing v17 right now i don't know maybe
00:44:59.309 --> 00:45:01.929
i'm strong but like and honestly this year too
00:45:01.929 --> 00:45:04.550
i feel a lot stronger than i have in the past
00:45:04.550 --> 00:45:07.829
like now i'm like oh i can do like the harder
00:45:07.829 --> 00:45:10.989
moves on the circuit given the right circumstance
00:45:10.989 --> 00:45:14.030
but so i guess i mean like you don't consider
00:45:14.030 --> 00:45:17.610
like you consider yourself um better at do or
00:45:17.610 --> 00:45:20.190
like learning movement compared to just like
00:45:20.190 --> 00:45:24.250
brute force strength kind of yeah yeah So I guess
00:45:24.250 --> 00:45:29.869
I find that maybe not like surprising, but I'm
00:45:29.869 --> 00:45:32.550
kind of wondering like how that plays into you
00:45:32.550 --> 00:45:36.090
also thinking that you prefer seeing more old
00:45:36.090 --> 00:45:38.829
school power boulders in terms of like setting.
00:45:39.269 --> 00:45:46.769
Yeah, it's a funny conundrum because it's not
00:45:46.769 --> 00:45:49.409
what I like will excel at, but I just really
00:45:49.409 --> 00:45:53.260
enjoy watching it. Okay. I just like really enjoy
00:45:53.260 --> 00:45:56.300
watching it. Climbing on it generally is a little
00:45:56.300 --> 00:45:59.059
bit less fun for me because like the straightforward
00:45:59.059 --> 00:46:01.760
climbing boulders we've had this year, I haven't
00:46:01.760 --> 00:46:04.940
been able to start. Like we had one in Innsbruck
00:46:04.940 --> 00:46:08.260
and I like couldn't start the boulder. But it
00:46:08.260 --> 00:46:10.340
was sick. I was like geeking on the mat. Like
00:46:10.340 --> 00:46:12.579
this is so sick, dude. It's like a drive -by
00:46:12.579 --> 00:46:15.380
to a 20 mil crib. This is so tight. But yeah,
00:46:15.400 --> 00:46:16.920
I know. I just like, I mean, I don't know. I've
00:46:16.920 --> 00:46:20.179
watched a lot of World Cups. I've been to a lot
00:46:20.179 --> 00:46:23.860
of comps. I've seen the sport like change and
00:46:23.860 --> 00:46:26.659
grow and go through all these different iterations.
00:46:27.940 --> 00:46:32.440
And so like it's not in my best interest, but
00:46:32.440 --> 00:46:36.619
I like just think that it's way cooler. And I'm
00:46:36.619 --> 00:46:39.860
not saying I don't like where the sport is now.
00:46:39.980 --> 00:46:42.780
I think that there's like some really cool movement
00:46:42.780 --> 00:46:45.860
going on and some really cool, like a lot of
00:46:45.860 --> 00:46:49.179
it's technology, like dual techs. thermal molded
00:46:49.179 --> 00:46:54.719
holds um like different forms of fiberglass really
00:46:54.719 --> 00:47:00.159
cool stuff but i think that it's like overwhelmingly
00:47:00.159 --> 00:47:04.760
in one direction and i would love to see some
00:47:04.760 --> 00:47:07.719
diversity in the climbing comp because like what
00:47:07.719 --> 00:47:11.900
made those jumps so sick is how different it
00:47:11.900 --> 00:47:14.510
was from like what we were used to seeing And
00:47:14.510 --> 00:47:17.630
it like, I mean, I watched the sport change over
00:47:17.630 --> 00:47:20.550
the last 20 years. Like I remember like when
00:47:20.550 --> 00:47:22.849
run jumps were like the thing and it was like
00:47:22.849 --> 00:47:25.789
so sick and like, dude, you can grab a jug and
00:47:25.789 --> 00:47:27.710
you can run across a bunch of volumes and this
00:47:27.710 --> 00:47:32.690
is so sick. And then like, then they were like,
00:47:32.730 --> 00:47:35.309
well, what if instead of going from a jug and
00:47:35.309 --> 00:47:37.230
then running across a bunch of volumes and grabbing
00:47:37.230 --> 00:47:40.269
a jug, the hold was directional. So you had to
00:47:40.269 --> 00:47:42.780
like run. cross a bunch of volumes and then grab
00:47:42.780 --> 00:47:45.500
a directional hold and then do some like weird
00:47:45.500 --> 00:47:47.860
thing with your hand where you had to grab like
00:47:47.860 --> 00:47:50.960
three holds or it was like two holds and then
00:47:50.960 --> 00:47:53.340
it was like what if we go four holds and then
00:47:53.340 --> 00:47:56.519
five holds and then what if we go like three
00:47:56.519 --> 00:47:59.119
holds this way but you can't stop so you have
00:47:59.119 --> 00:48:02.760
to go back to the right and like it was sick
00:48:02.760 --> 00:48:04.800
i like watched it happen and it's been really
00:48:04.800 --> 00:48:07.800
cool to watch and i love climbing on it but i
00:48:07.800 --> 00:48:12.070
feel like we're doing so much of that that there's
00:48:12.070 --> 00:48:16.889
like the other stuff has gotten left out. Like
00:48:16.889 --> 00:48:20.150
the example I gave was like just jumping to a
00:48:20.150 --> 00:48:22.590
pinch, just like square climbing on pinches.
00:48:22.610 --> 00:48:27.210
Like there was a boulder at ABS Nationals 15
00:48:27.210 --> 00:48:32.289
or 16 that Daniel went on, and it was like the
00:48:32.289 --> 00:48:34.829
orange Technic pinches. I think they're like
00:48:34.829 --> 00:48:38.780
the fatty, tall, long pinches. and I was like
00:48:38.780 --> 00:48:40.940
I would just give anything to see another one
00:48:40.940 --> 00:48:43.400
of those boulders on the wall just once just
00:48:43.400 --> 00:48:46.099
like you know one boulder in the season where
00:48:46.099 --> 00:48:49.179
it was just like grab pinch jump to pinch drive
00:48:49.179 --> 00:48:53.099
by to pinch or like more crimping I think that
00:48:53.099 --> 00:48:56.579
would be really cool like to like I mean show
00:48:56.579 --> 00:49:01.639
how far we will like count how many crimps we
00:49:01.639 --> 00:49:05.599
climb on in the season like oh yeah this world
00:49:05.599 --> 00:49:08.360
cup we grabbed a crimp And I feel like that's
00:49:08.360 --> 00:49:10.179
kind of a bummer where you're like, you can count
00:49:10.179 --> 00:49:12.039
on one hand, the amount of crimps you grabbed
00:49:12.039 --> 00:49:16.440
the whole competition. Like that feels like it's
00:49:16.440 --> 00:49:19.000
missing something. There's like a missing a little
00:49:19.000 --> 00:49:22.780
bit of diversity. And I like doing quarter moves
00:49:22.780 --> 00:49:26.019
and I like doing run across jumps and I like
00:49:26.019 --> 00:49:29.460
dual, I love dual techs, but I would also like
00:49:29.460 --> 00:49:32.559
to be challenged and like get the chance to see
00:49:32.559 --> 00:49:34.980
people climb on or get the opportunity to climb
00:49:34.980 --> 00:49:37.989
on. like frontal crimp climbing well do you feel
00:49:37.989 --> 00:49:39.789
like this year they've been setting a little
00:49:39.789 --> 00:49:42.230
bit more like old school boulders maybe or like
00:49:42.230 --> 00:49:44.869
power it's been getting better it's been getting
00:49:44.869 --> 00:49:48.409
better um i think the last podcast i went on
00:49:48.409 --> 00:49:50.650
was with gnarly right before the season started
00:49:50.650 --> 00:49:53.550
and i was like my predictions are we see some
00:49:53.550 --> 00:49:56.050
more rock climbing okay because i think i was
00:49:56.050 --> 00:49:58.630
hoping the sport would turn back that way and
00:49:58.630 --> 00:50:01.010
i didn't get to see as many as i wanted but i
00:50:01.010 --> 00:50:05.980
saw more which was really cool like um China,
00:50:05.980 --> 00:50:09.019
semi -final, blue boulder, just straight crimp
00:50:09.019 --> 00:50:12.280
rig. That was one of the sickest boulders all
00:50:12.280 --> 00:50:14.519
season for me to climb. I don't know. I was like
00:50:14.519 --> 00:50:17.400
really psyched. How was the separation on that
00:50:17.400 --> 00:50:19.500
one? I'm trying to remember. It was a long time
00:50:19.500 --> 00:50:27.079
ago. Kachow, semi -final, men, boulder, three.
00:50:27.480 --> 00:50:31.300
It had one, two flashes. Whoa, maybe not the
00:50:31.300 --> 00:50:34.360
best separation. Two flashes, which is crazy.
00:50:35.099 --> 00:50:38.639
So three tops, two flashes, one second attempt,
00:50:38.940 --> 00:50:41.519
and then a handful of zones, and then a bunch
00:50:41.519 --> 00:50:48.659
of no zones. And then boulder, two head. That's
00:50:48.659 --> 00:50:57.079
actually super sick. Me and Mejdi and Tomoa were
00:50:57.079 --> 00:50:58.840
the only people to flash the second boulder.
00:50:59.900 --> 00:51:03.369
That's wild. I thought that boulder was... I
00:51:03.369 --> 00:51:08.090
was like, this boulder is too easy. Okay. What
00:51:08.090 --> 00:51:11.070
kind of boulder was it? Do you remember? It was
00:51:11.070 --> 00:51:14.989
like a weird, it was like dual text press. And
00:51:14.989 --> 00:51:17.130
then you grabbed like a foot chip and jumped
00:51:17.130 --> 00:51:20.230
to, it was all squadra holds. And it was like
00:51:20.230 --> 00:51:25.050
dual text press. You grabbed like a no shadow,
00:51:25.309 --> 00:51:28.030
technically no shadow, and you like jumps to
00:51:28.030 --> 00:51:33.409
another squadra. It's a good set of these. Oh,
00:51:33.409 --> 00:51:39.449
okay. And then you did like a Lachey double clutch.
00:51:39.550 --> 00:51:43.789
It was like two words of those. You remember
00:51:43.789 --> 00:51:47.530
that one being easy? Yeah, I was like this. That
00:51:47.530 --> 00:51:50.769
was my chance to look at Colin and be like, dude,
00:51:50.789 --> 00:51:53.949
literally pink at BP. Like you couldn't not do
00:51:53.949 --> 00:51:56.510
that boulder. Yeah. It's impossible to fall in
00:51:56.510 --> 00:51:58.409
that boulder. He said that to me twice this year.
00:51:58.940 --> 00:52:02.840
Wow. Yeah. What's the dynamic there in terms
00:52:02.840 --> 00:52:09.280
of competitiveness? It's a great, great dynamic.
00:52:09.539 --> 00:52:15.019
I like that kid so much. I love that kid. I've
00:52:15.019 --> 00:52:18.440
been on the circuit with him for five years now,
00:52:18.579 --> 00:52:21.579
which has been really cool because I remember
00:52:21.579 --> 00:52:25.000
when he was 17 and just joined. It was his first
00:52:25.000 --> 00:52:28.019
year on the circuit. And at the point I was like
00:52:28.019 --> 00:52:31.500
21. I know it's like kind of it was like weird
00:52:31.500 --> 00:52:33.860
because he was like young and he was like 17.
00:52:33.920 --> 00:52:35.739
And so it's kind of awkward because I was like,
00:52:35.739 --> 00:52:39.199
this kid's literally a kid. I was like not even
00:52:39.199 --> 00:52:44.880
18 yet. And then like half in Seoul after the
00:52:44.880 --> 00:52:47.099
round was over and like the comp was done, we
00:52:47.099 --> 00:52:50.380
were like, we can like get a drink together.
00:52:50.420 --> 00:52:53.579
We're like both. over 21 and like adults and
00:52:53.579 --> 00:52:55.880
the comps over which was i was like oh this is
00:52:55.880 --> 00:52:57.639
like cool like i remember when you were a kid
00:52:57.639 --> 00:53:00.780
and now we're just like both adults and i just
00:53:00.780 --> 00:53:05.280
he's like such a sweet kid and like uh really
00:53:05.280 --> 00:53:07.380
thoughtful and i don't know yeah i really like
00:53:07.380 --> 00:53:11.360
and he like he meets me at the same level of
00:53:11.360 --> 00:53:15.539
like banter like i'm kind of i i can like kind
00:53:15.539 --> 00:53:17.320
of poke a little hard i'm like a little like
00:53:17.320 --> 00:53:20.750
i like to banter And he just like meets my banter
00:53:20.750 --> 00:53:24.190
at the same level and like will give me shit.
00:53:24.250 --> 00:53:26.309
And I like that because I don't know. I like
00:53:26.309 --> 00:53:29.369
people that give me shit. What do you feel like
00:53:29.369 --> 00:53:31.269
are the differences between your climbing styles?
00:53:32.269 --> 00:53:40.769
Well, he's just way better than me. Okay. He's
00:53:40.769 --> 00:53:45.349
really good at this like straight arm kind of
00:53:45.349 --> 00:53:49.719
climbing. He has probably the strongest three
00:53:49.719 --> 00:53:51.619
-finger drag that I've ever seen in my life.
00:53:52.920 --> 00:53:55.679
And he's also exceptionally good at coordination.
00:53:56.079 --> 00:53:59.219
I think I'm pretty good at coordination, and
00:53:59.219 --> 00:54:01.400
he's so much better at coordination than me.
00:54:02.360 --> 00:54:05.340
And he's also freakishly strong. I think Colin
00:54:05.340 --> 00:54:07.139
is one of the strongest dudes on the circuit.
00:54:08.480 --> 00:54:14.119
It doesn't always show, but he really is freakishly
00:54:14.119 --> 00:54:16.599
strong. And when he's able to, like, channel
00:54:16.599 --> 00:54:19.420
that, I think, like, he's one of the strongest
00:54:19.420 --> 00:54:21.179
dudes on the circuit. And, like, Bull, there's,
00:54:21.219 --> 00:54:23.699
like, that one in Cachao, like, he didn't do.
00:54:24.559 --> 00:54:26.699
And he was like, it's too hard. It doesn't go.
00:54:26.960 --> 00:54:29.340
But I think he, like, he was just, like, he was
00:54:29.340 --> 00:54:31.360
grabbing the hold wrong. Like, I watched him,
00:54:31.400 --> 00:54:33.239
like, take the hold as, like, a side pull instead
00:54:33.239 --> 00:54:36.000
of a down pull. Or a down pull instead of a side
00:54:36.000 --> 00:54:37.719
pull. And then the two dudes that did it, like,
00:54:37.800 --> 00:54:42.670
grabbed it the right way. And it's, like. small
00:54:42.670 --> 00:54:44.969
things like that. But I think he is like, he's,
00:54:44.969 --> 00:54:48.150
he's really, really strong. He's really good
00:54:48.150 --> 00:54:51.409
at coordination. And then the only difference,
00:54:51.429 --> 00:54:53.730
like not difference between us, but like one
00:54:53.730 --> 00:54:56.030
of the, I think the other differences is that
00:54:56.030 --> 00:55:01.030
I excel on slab, maybe less this year, but I
00:55:01.030 --> 00:55:04.369
do feel like I'm good slab climber. And I think
00:55:04.369 --> 00:55:07.269
that's maybe his weakness. And so that was like
00:55:07.269 --> 00:55:10.030
the one thing I maybe have on him is like a little
00:55:10.030 --> 00:55:13.010
bit better slab climbing. Okay. Moving on for
00:55:13.010 --> 00:55:15.849
now, I know throughout this interview, you've
00:55:15.849 --> 00:55:17.750
talked about like different holds that people
00:55:17.750 --> 00:55:21.710
use in the competitions and World Cups and local
00:55:21.710 --> 00:55:25.170
competitions as well. I think that makes sense
00:55:25.170 --> 00:55:26.829
because you do a lot of hold shaping yourself.
00:55:27.590 --> 00:55:31.130
How did you get into that? So Quincy, the kid
00:55:31.130 --> 00:55:35.210
I talked about from my school, him and his dad
00:55:35.210 --> 00:55:37.130
used to make climbing holds. And that's just
00:55:37.130 --> 00:55:39.010
kind of a fun thing. They had a home wall. And
00:55:39.010 --> 00:55:40.829
so they'd make climbing holds for their home
00:55:40.829 --> 00:55:43.849
wall. And we had a play date because we were
00:55:43.849 --> 00:55:46.010
10 and that's what you do when you're 10. Cute.
00:55:46.309 --> 00:55:49.510
I miss play dates so bad. Well, you can still
00:55:49.510 --> 00:55:52.150
do them. Yeah, right? I feel like we should start
00:55:52.150 --> 00:55:54.809
adult play dates. But yeah, I went over to his
00:55:54.809 --> 00:55:56.389
house and we made climbing holds and I was like,
00:55:56.449 --> 00:56:00.809
this is the sickest thing ever. And as I do,
00:56:00.949 --> 00:56:02.690
immediately fell in love with it and was like,
00:56:02.809 --> 00:56:09.050
I want to do this all the time. So that was how
00:56:09.050 --> 00:56:16.059
I got into it. I pretty much just annoyed everyone
00:56:16.059 --> 00:56:19.659
that would tolerate me to teach me how to make
00:56:19.659 --> 00:56:23.860
climbing holds. We started a hold company that
00:56:23.860 --> 00:56:25.940
never went anywhere. And then I started another
00:56:25.940 --> 00:56:29.579
hold company with another buddy, which went a
00:56:29.579 --> 00:56:33.519
little farther. We sold holds to some friends
00:56:33.519 --> 00:56:35.559
for their home wall and then some to the climbing
00:56:35.559 --> 00:56:41.659
gym. And then I met Ty Foos at... bouldering
00:56:41.659 --> 00:56:45.139
nationals and just bugged him and we ended up
00:56:45.139 --> 00:56:47.400
becoming really good friends and he like taught
00:56:47.400 --> 00:56:50.579
me a bunch of stuff and then I bugged Ian from
00:56:50.579 --> 00:56:54.539
Kilter for like I would just message him online
00:56:54.539 --> 00:56:58.380
all of the time just asking all these stupid
00:56:58.380 --> 00:57:02.179
questions and like he let me come over and he
00:57:02.179 --> 00:57:05.039
let me shape and then when I moved to Salt Lake
00:57:05.039 --> 00:57:11.539
City I met Jared at Pusher and just like I wouldn't
00:57:11.539 --> 00:57:17.079
leave him alone. It's like constantly bugging
00:57:17.079 --> 00:57:19.440
him. And it was like, I think I went over there
00:57:19.440 --> 00:57:22.579
to climb with Nathaniel and I just spent the
00:57:22.579 --> 00:57:24.820
whole time Nathaniel was climbing, just talking
00:57:24.820 --> 00:57:27.579
to Jared about shapes. I like always had had
00:57:27.579 --> 00:57:31.760
a fascination with pusher. So I was just like
00:57:31.760 --> 00:57:34.019
geeked to be there and like meet Jared. I was
00:57:34.019 --> 00:57:36.960
like, it was like way cooler than meeting any
00:57:36.960 --> 00:57:41.219
of my climbing idols. I was so psyched. I was
00:57:41.219 --> 00:57:45.519
geeked out of my mind and spent four hours talking
00:57:45.519 --> 00:57:46.940
to him about climbing holds. He was like, you
00:57:46.940 --> 00:57:48.380
can come over whenever you want. I was like,
00:57:48.400 --> 00:57:51.639
cool. The next day, I was like, hey, can I come
00:57:51.639 --> 00:57:58.320
over? He let me shape some holds for him, which
00:57:58.320 --> 00:58:03.179
we ended up making. I just kept coming over and
00:58:03.179 --> 00:58:05.360
shaping and bugging him and climbing and shaping
00:58:05.360 --> 00:58:08.429
and bugging him. We became good friends. And
00:58:08.429 --> 00:58:10.610
so eventually he gave me a key because he was
00:58:10.610 --> 00:58:14.210
like, this doesn't make sense for me to be here
00:58:14.210 --> 00:58:17.210
all the time when you're here. He'd keep texting
00:58:17.210 --> 00:58:19.510
me at 10 o 'clock at night if he could come shape.
00:58:19.590 --> 00:58:24.130
So here's a key. And so I would just go over
00:58:24.130 --> 00:58:29.570
there all the time at crazy hours of the night
00:58:29.570 --> 00:58:33.630
and shape away. And we just became really good
00:58:33.630 --> 00:58:37.500
friends, me and Jared and Kevin. are like super
00:58:37.500 --> 00:58:39.539
tight now consider them both like some of my
00:58:39.539 --> 00:58:44.800
best friends um and yeah they're like really
00:58:44.800 --> 00:58:47.460
good dudes well so like what makes a good hold
00:58:47.460 --> 00:58:52.940
for you that's a good question um i remember
00:58:52.940 --> 00:58:55.880
you asked me this last time and i didn't have
00:58:55.880 --> 00:58:58.980
a good answer and i still don't have a good answer
00:58:58.980 --> 00:59:02.900
i i have a much better answer of what makes a
00:59:02.900 --> 00:59:06.559
bad hold Okay, go for that. Yeah, love to hear
00:59:06.559 --> 00:59:12.599
that too. There are bad holds because they're
00:59:12.599 --> 00:59:16.780
in attention to detail and done sloppily. And
00:59:16.780 --> 00:59:19.840
then there are really good holds that also have
00:59:19.840 --> 00:59:22.119
very little attention to detail and done really
00:59:22.119 --> 00:59:25.679
sloppily. But maybe it's the attention to detail.
00:59:26.300 --> 00:59:29.280
And I'm going to try not to call anyone out by
00:59:29.280 --> 00:59:34.840
name. But there's some... Really, really good
00:59:34.840 --> 00:59:39.599
hold companies would make fantastic, revolutionizing
00:59:39.599 --> 00:59:46.800
shapes, revolutionary shapes that are done in
00:59:46.800 --> 00:59:50.139
the lowest quality ever. Not the lowest quality,
00:59:50.280 --> 00:59:57.159
but it's really funny to see the attention to
00:59:57.159 --> 01:00:00.500
detail that just isn't there on the small things.
01:00:02.030 --> 01:00:05.550
But the hold itself is absolutely amazing. And
01:00:05.550 --> 01:00:08.489
is one of my favorite holds. And there's a lot
01:00:08.489 --> 01:00:13.570
of them. But a good example is dual techs. You
01:00:13.570 --> 01:00:16.409
can tell how much time someone spent and the
01:00:16.409 --> 01:00:19.269
level of craftsmanship because of dual techs.
01:00:21.369 --> 01:00:24.349
I don't know if I have any dual techs holds in
01:00:24.349 --> 01:00:26.969
my room right now. I don't have any good examples
01:00:26.969 --> 01:00:30.110
of this. But there's different ways to do a dual
01:00:30.110 --> 01:00:32.500
techs. And you can kind of tell on the whole
01:00:32.500 --> 01:00:36.940
how they did the dual techs. You can either do
01:00:36.940 --> 01:00:41.119
it on the foam before you mold it or after you
01:00:41.119 --> 01:00:45.659
mold it and then you can remold it again. And
01:00:45.659 --> 01:00:50.019
you can either do it by taking material away
01:00:50.019 --> 01:00:53.760
or adding material. And you can tell what material,
01:00:54.039 --> 01:00:58.119
like at least I can tell how they did it. And
01:00:58.119 --> 01:01:05.900
like Jared. is one of the most meticulous craftsmen
01:01:05.900 --> 01:01:10.039
I've ever seen. His attention to detail was insane
01:01:10.039 --> 01:01:17.500
and spectacular, which I think makes him a really,
01:01:17.619 --> 01:01:21.480
really good hold shaper. And you can tell from
01:01:21.480 --> 01:01:25.019
looking at his holds the level of craftsmanship.
01:01:25.980 --> 01:01:27.880
I'll shape a hold and I'll be done with it. And
01:01:27.880 --> 01:01:29.199
I'll be like, look at this hold that's ready
01:01:29.199 --> 01:01:31.960
to be molded. And he's like, it needs two more
01:01:31.960 --> 01:01:34.139
hours because you didn't do this and this and
01:01:34.139 --> 01:01:37.860
there's a bump here. He's like, I'll think a
01:01:37.860 --> 01:01:39.639
hold's done and I'm ready to mold it. And he's
01:01:39.639 --> 01:01:41.679
just like, it's not even close to done. Small
01:01:41.679 --> 01:01:48.579
things. Once he's drilled the holes where the
01:01:48.579 --> 01:01:50.139
bolt is going to go and the screw's going to
01:01:50.139 --> 01:01:53.320
go, he'll go back in and round off the edges.
01:01:54.539 --> 01:01:58.320
and clean it up so that when you like put your
01:01:58.320 --> 01:02:02.460
thumb in the hold it's not a sharp or hard edge
01:02:02.460 --> 01:02:06.000
it's like a rounded like smooth edge and we'll
01:02:06.000 --> 01:02:10.420
blend the dual tex into the bolt hole so that
01:02:10.420 --> 01:02:12.519
like when you put your thumb in the bolt hole
01:02:12.519 --> 01:02:14.960
you don't slip out you like or you do slip out
01:02:14.960 --> 01:02:18.440
whereas like some people will like dual tex the
01:02:18.440 --> 01:02:21.079
hole drill the hole shift it off and mail it
01:02:21.079 --> 01:02:23.139
and then it comes back and it's this dual text
01:02:23.139 --> 01:02:25.900
hold that has this sharp in -cut edge where your
01:02:25.900 --> 01:02:31.300
thumb goes um small things like that flat hold
01:02:31.300 --> 01:02:35.960
also um like i have so much infinite respect
01:02:35.960 --> 01:02:39.239
for them as well because their attention to detail
01:02:39.239 --> 01:02:42.880
and craftsmanship is like also on that same level
01:02:42.880 --> 01:02:47.000
um and like they're what when they release something
01:02:47.000 --> 01:02:52.099
it's done really well and with a lot of thought
01:02:52.099 --> 01:02:58.239
and uh intention and so like they make really
01:02:58.239 --> 01:03:02.320
good holds made really well and i think that's
01:03:02.320 --> 01:03:04.099
like an idea versus like some other companies
01:03:04.099 --> 01:03:06.059
make really cool holds that are like really good
01:03:06.059 --> 01:03:08.659
shapes but done really fast and they're like
01:03:08.659 --> 01:03:11.420
oh just like uh put a thing of dual text there
01:03:11.420 --> 01:03:14.500
so you can't step on it wow so like with the
01:03:14.940 --> 01:03:18.119
The bolt hold dual -tex thing, is that done individually
01:03:18.119 --> 01:03:21.519
per hold that comes out? No, no, no. That's all
01:03:21.519 --> 01:03:24.519
on the master. Oh, okay. Gotcha. And so you can
01:03:24.519 --> 01:03:31.960
do it on the plastic, and then basically you'd
01:03:31.960 --> 01:03:37.780
mold the hold, you'd dual -tex it, and then you'd
01:03:37.780 --> 01:03:41.639
mold it again. Or you can do it on the foam and
01:03:41.639 --> 01:03:44.519
then mold that. And they have different pros
01:03:44.519 --> 01:03:47.559
and cons. They look different. And you can tell
01:03:47.559 --> 01:03:49.659
when you, like, look at a hold closely whether
01:03:49.659 --> 01:03:54.119
it was, like, if the Dualtex, like, blends into
01:03:54.119 --> 01:03:57.000
the plastic, you can tell it was done on, like,
01:03:57.460 --> 01:04:00.179
a plastic hold. Versus, like, if there's a hard
01:04:00.179 --> 01:04:02.739
edge, you can tell that, like, that means that
01:04:02.739 --> 01:04:05.639
the Dualtex was, like, done on the foam and then
01:04:05.639 --> 01:04:08.760
molded. And then there's, like, a whole category
01:04:08.760 --> 01:04:12.670
of holds. which I would consider bad holds. These
01:04:12.670 --> 01:04:14.389
are all good holds. These are all the things,
01:04:14.469 --> 01:04:16.670
like the differences in like hold companies that
01:04:16.670 --> 01:04:19.349
make really good holds. And then there's the
01:04:19.349 --> 01:04:24.010
companies that make bad holds that I like don't
01:04:24.010 --> 01:04:25.869
even know how to explain, but they're just like
01:04:25.869 --> 01:04:28.010
a waste of plastic. And every time I see them,
01:04:28.010 --> 01:04:30.389
I'm just like, I can't believe you're just, anyone's
01:04:30.389 --> 01:04:32.889
allowed to make a climbing hold company. Yeah.
01:04:33.409 --> 01:04:35.630
Like that's one of the questions I ask myself
01:04:35.630 --> 01:04:38.389
frequently. I'm like, I can't believe that someone
01:04:38.389 --> 01:04:41.460
decided. that it was worth their money to mold
01:04:41.460 --> 01:04:45.159
this. And then someone spent their money to buy
01:04:45.159 --> 01:04:48.860
it, which is crazy. Is it like ergonomics or
01:04:48.860 --> 01:04:52.360
just like a shave that's already been done or
01:04:52.360 --> 01:04:55.019
like what is it? So that's really annoying. When
01:04:55.019 --> 01:04:56.699
someone does a hold that's already been done
01:04:56.699 --> 01:04:59.340
and doesn't do their own thing to it, that's
01:04:59.340 --> 01:05:01.980
annoying, especially when they don't do a good
01:05:01.980 --> 01:05:06.719
job. But most of it is like ergonomics or...
01:05:08.269 --> 01:05:10.329
Something I see a lot of which I really don't
01:05:10.329 --> 01:05:12.789
like is really poorly done rock texture holds.
01:05:13.309 --> 01:05:16.190
So like there's a lot of companies that make
01:05:16.190 --> 01:05:20.150
rock textured holds that don't actually look
01:05:20.150 --> 01:05:22.210
like rock texture and are kind of uncomfortable
01:05:22.210 --> 01:05:25.789
to grab because they have this like natural look
01:05:25.789 --> 01:05:29.510
to them. And like they're A, not artistic to
01:05:29.510 --> 01:05:32.929
look at. And B, they're like really unfun to
01:05:32.929 --> 01:05:35.510
grab. They're kind of like kind of uncomfortable.
01:05:36.090 --> 01:05:39.280
And I'm sure like... If you go to the gym and
01:05:39.280 --> 01:05:41.920
look at some holds, you can tell the difference
01:05:41.920 --> 01:05:46.079
between... When you look at Jared's sandstone,
01:05:46.199 --> 01:05:50.500
it looks like a piece of Joe's is on the wall.
01:05:51.639 --> 01:05:54.059
And then if you look at some other companies,
01:05:54.280 --> 01:06:00.980
like Rock Texture, it's like... I don't know
01:06:00.980 --> 01:06:04.800
what that is, but I don't want to grab it. And
01:06:04.800 --> 01:06:10.860
like... the like both kilter and uh pusher I
01:06:10.860 --> 01:06:14.079
think do a really good job of making like fun
01:06:14.079 --> 01:06:16.340
like ergonomic and they do it differently like
01:06:16.340 --> 01:06:20.019
Ian has his own style but like he does a really
01:06:20.019 --> 01:06:23.280
good job with the sandstone and the granite texture
01:06:23.280 --> 01:06:27.099
um and like he has his style and Jared has his
01:06:27.099 --> 01:06:29.780
style and they're both like do a really good
01:06:29.780 --> 01:06:32.340
job with it Ian is also very meticulous and like
01:06:32.340 --> 01:06:38.699
very um uh, just like Jared, it's not, it's not
01:06:38.699 --> 01:06:42.239
OCD, but it is OCD about like every detail has
01:06:42.239 --> 01:06:45.800
to be perfect. And I think that's important because
01:06:45.800 --> 01:06:47.980
when you can blow the hold and put it on your
01:06:47.980 --> 01:06:50.239
website and sell it and like give it to hundreds
01:06:50.239 --> 01:06:53.099
of thousands of people and like it potentially
01:06:53.099 --> 01:06:55.480
is going to be something that people will climb
01:06:55.480 --> 01:06:57.519
on for the next like a hundred years and will
01:06:57.519 --> 01:06:59.739
like, like the, the boss is like was made in
01:06:59.739 --> 01:07:03.730
the eighties and It's still a hold that is on
01:07:03.730 --> 01:07:06.690
people's wall. Can you describe which one that
01:07:06.690 --> 01:07:10.190
is real quick? The boss looks like a brain. It's
01:07:10.190 --> 01:07:13.690
the old, it's like the big sloper that's this
01:07:13.690 --> 01:07:17.010
big. And it's got the font bubbles on the top.
01:07:17.289 --> 01:07:19.550
And then like the brain divot in the middle.
01:07:20.289 --> 01:07:23.190
And that was like the first big sloper feature.
01:07:24.250 --> 01:07:26.510
And Pusher was like the first. They were the
01:07:26.510 --> 01:07:30.969
first of a lot of things. It was like they really
01:07:30.969 --> 01:07:35.510
did. do a lot of firsts um but the boss is like
01:07:35.510 --> 01:07:38.269
maybe one of the most recognizable famous holds
01:07:38.269 --> 01:07:43.130
um not holds gonna be famous for you know it's
01:07:43.130 --> 01:07:46.550
like timeless hold anytime you make a hold like
01:07:46.550 --> 01:07:49.710
everything you all the little divots or like
01:07:49.710 --> 01:07:52.170
little birthmarks and like all these little things
01:07:52.170 --> 01:07:54.829
that you don't take care of will be there forever
01:07:54.829 --> 01:07:58.570
um the bubble wraps another like iconic hold
01:07:58.570 --> 01:08:02.420
that will like always be around. There will always
01:08:02.420 --> 01:08:04.639
be bubble wrap holds and they'll always be sick.
01:08:04.820 --> 01:08:07.679
I set a boulder with the bubble wrap holds Thursday
01:08:07.679 --> 01:08:11.019
and they're still sick. The bubble wrap looks
01:08:11.019 --> 01:08:14.440
like a pie. It's like a half moon and it's got
01:08:14.440 --> 01:08:18.079
little tiny bubbles on the top of it. Honestly,
01:08:18.079 --> 01:08:21.500
I hate these holds. Really? I love the bubble
01:08:21.500 --> 01:08:24.880
wrap. It's a texture thing for me and the fact
01:08:24.880 --> 01:08:30.739
that I'm bad at climbing basically. Actually,
01:08:30.819 --> 01:08:35.340
so Ty shaped the bubble wrap. And it doesn't
01:08:35.340 --> 01:08:37.319
exist anymore, but he showed me one of the times
01:08:37.319 --> 01:08:41.300
I went to Waco the first bubble wrap hold that
01:08:41.300 --> 01:08:43.819
he ever shaped. And it's cool because it has
01:08:43.819 --> 01:08:46.239
a little rock texture in it, like when he first
01:08:46.239 --> 01:08:52.859
made it. He added some cracks into it. But essentially,
01:08:52.979 --> 01:08:56.340
I think the story goes like he was setting a
01:08:56.340 --> 01:08:59.119
bunch of comms at the time, and Chris Sharma...
01:08:59.449 --> 01:09:03.109
and somebody else were competing and they were
01:09:03.109 --> 01:09:05.489
always tying. They would always either fall or
01:09:05.489 --> 01:09:07.970
they would send the roo. And he was sick of them
01:09:07.970 --> 01:09:10.289
tying. So he's like, I need to come up with something
01:09:10.289 --> 01:09:12.890
that will separate them. And so he shaped the
01:09:12.890 --> 01:09:16.569
bubble wrap, which was probably the first hold
01:09:16.569 --> 01:09:21.029
to really make you fumble around to get the right
01:09:21.029 --> 01:09:22.989
spot. When you grab a bubble wrap, you can't
01:09:22.989 --> 01:09:28.109
just slap to it. You need to take it right. And
01:09:28.109 --> 01:09:30.130
so he shaped the bubble wrap so that you had
01:09:30.130 --> 01:09:32.949
to take it in the right position and grab it.
01:09:33.189 --> 01:09:35.149
Just like when you're climbing outside, you will
01:09:35.149 --> 01:09:37.189
grab a hold and fiddle around to get the right
01:09:37.189 --> 01:09:41.829
bubbles. And sure enough, Chris jumped to the
01:09:41.829 --> 01:09:43.850
hold and was like, and then jumped to the next
01:09:43.850 --> 01:09:45.590
hold and did the route and won. And then the
01:09:45.590 --> 01:09:48.130
next guy came out and jumped to the hold and
01:09:48.130 --> 01:09:51.729
grabbed it and tried to keep grabbing it and
01:09:51.729 --> 01:09:53.729
was bumping around on it and then didn't do the
01:09:53.729 --> 01:09:56.770
next move. So it ended up separating them. I
01:09:56.770 --> 01:09:58.310
could keep talking about cotton poults forever.
01:09:58.789 --> 01:10:01.970
Well, okay. I guess big one that a lot of people
01:10:01.970 --> 01:10:04.590
have been talking about more recently. How do
01:10:04.590 --> 01:10:07.510
you feel about no -tax holds? Oh, I love no -tax
01:10:07.510 --> 01:10:14.050
holds. Nice. I have a huge issue with the rules
01:10:14.050 --> 01:10:22.109
around no -tax holds. I actually have a big frustration.
01:10:24.390 --> 01:10:28.289
They released the no -text volts. Climbers adapted,
01:10:28.590 --> 01:10:31.409
which included spitting and licking on your hands
01:10:31.409 --> 01:10:34.229
because when you have moist hands, you stick
01:10:34.229 --> 01:10:37.409
to the no -text better. Then the next season
01:10:37.409 --> 01:10:42.489
rolled around and they started setting these
01:10:42.489 --> 01:10:44.869
boulders because it's a new technology. So it's
01:10:44.869 --> 01:10:48.210
like, what can we do? So they started to introduce
01:10:48.210 --> 01:10:55.229
changes of like... state right so it's like you
01:10:55.229 --> 01:10:58.670
start on fiberglass and then you move to clear
01:10:58.670 --> 01:11:01.369
holds or you start on clear holds and then you
01:11:01.369 --> 01:11:04.689
move to fiberglass which are completely different
01:11:04.689 --> 01:11:07.510
states like for fiberglass you need really dry
01:11:07.510 --> 01:11:12.050
skin and for plastic uh it's dual text you need
01:11:12.050 --> 01:11:15.909
really like uh tacky moist skin so essentially
01:11:15.909 --> 01:11:19.029
like if you like missed your hands and then let
01:11:19.029 --> 01:11:21.590
them dry for a second that's like really the
01:11:21.590 --> 01:11:24.510
tacky feeling you want or like if you lick your
01:11:24.510 --> 01:11:28.270
fingers and then let them dry for a minute but
01:11:28.270 --> 01:11:30.989
then competitors were like licking their fingers
01:11:30.989 --> 01:11:33.789
and like bringing out bottles of spray and like
01:11:33.789 --> 01:11:36.470
you know essentially adapting to this new thing
01:11:36.470 --> 01:11:40.649
and so the ifsc introduced rules now where like
01:11:40.649 --> 01:11:42.590
you're not allowed to lick your hands or spit
01:11:42.590 --> 01:11:47.170
on your hands which like i get it's kind of a
01:11:47.170 --> 01:11:52.350
biohazard ish and i know that some people are
01:11:52.350 --> 01:11:57.210
like ew that's gross germs illness whatever but
01:11:57.210 --> 01:12:01.989
like on the other hand all of those germs and
01:12:01.989 --> 01:12:05.289
stuff still exist on the wall anyways like you
01:12:05.289 --> 01:12:08.109
sneezing and like wash you know going to like
01:12:08.109 --> 01:12:10.989
all of like these germs are all still just right
01:12:10.989 --> 01:12:14.670
there and you're still like climbing like if
01:12:14.670 --> 01:12:17.710
like i don't know if i were to climb on a boulder
01:12:18.189 --> 01:12:20.130
the last thing I want to do is lick my hands
01:12:20.130 --> 01:12:23.029
after I like like I've already gotten all the
01:12:23.029 --> 01:12:26.369
germs and so like if I were someone else with
01:12:26.369 --> 01:12:28.369
a spit on their hands and then climbing a boulder
01:12:28.369 --> 01:12:31.489
before me I don't think there's any more germs
01:12:31.489 --> 01:12:35.409
than there already was like with like people
01:12:35.409 --> 01:12:37.409
stepping and whatever in their climbing shoe
01:12:37.409 --> 01:12:38.930
and then putting their climbing shoe on those
01:12:38.930 --> 01:12:41.489
holds like I don't know what's on your like I'm
01:12:41.489 --> 01:12:43.810
more concerned what's on your feet than what's
01:12:43.810 --> 01:12:48.600
on the like wall yeah I have another tangent
01:12:48.600 --> 01:12:51.880
that I'm probably will get into, but essentially
01:12:51.880 --> 01:12:55.239
it's been really frustrating with me because
01:12:55.239 --> 01:12:58.859
I like me. I don't know. I feel like I want all
01:12:58.859 --> 01:13:00.579
of the advantage I can have. And it was really
01:13:00.579 --> 01:13:04.600
frustrating for me to like, then now dual tech
01:13:04.600 --> 01:13:07.439
slash fiberglass or kind of like, it's like,
01:13:07.520 --> 01:13:11.920
how, what is your skin? Like, what are your genetics?
01:13:12.460 --> 01:13:15.659
Well, I mean, you can still bring a spray. You're
01:13:15.659 --> 01:13:18.359
not allowed to spray your hands before anymore.
01:13:18.640 --> 01:13:20.920
Oh, really? Your hands have to be dry before
01:13:20.920 --> 01:13:23.520
you get on the boulder. Oh, really? Okay. Yeah.
01:13:24.159 --> 01:13:26.239
I didn't know that. And so, like, it's still
01:13:26.239 --> 01:13:28.600
a fair playing field technically, but it just
01:13:28.600 --> 01:13:30.779
was, like, really frustrating all season for
01:13:30.779 --> 01:13:33.159
me because they introduced it in, like, the first
01:13:33.159 --> 01:13:36.960
comp. And then sure enough, I, like, turn around
01:13:36.960 --> 01:13:41.079
and it's, like, fiberglass start and then palm
01:13:41.079 --> 01:13:45.020
pressing on, like, no techs. And they're like,
01:13:45.079 --> 01:13:47.300
you can't spit on your hand. I'm like, I really
01:13:47.300 --> 01:13:51.260
want to like do the palm press mantle and then
01:13:51.260 --> 01:13:54.060
spit on my hands and get them wet and then be
01:13:54.060 --> 01:13:58.500
able to stick to these clear holds. It just was
01:13:58.500 --> 01:14:00.579
like kind of, I don't know. I have beef with
01:14:00.579 --> 01:14:03.300
it. But the holds themselves. No, the holds themselves
01:14:03.300 --> 01:14:06.399
are cool. They're a little overused. Less so
01:14:06.399 --> 01:14:11.199
now, but it's just like I'm a little tired of
01:14:11.199 --> 01:14:13.680
being asked if I can hold on to a slippery jug.
01:14:14.590 --> 01:14:19.869
Okay. Like, I've done, it's been asked a lot
01:14:19.869 --> 01:14:23.289
now. It's like, oh, like every company now makes,
01:14:23.390 --> 01:14:25.270
and I think I want to make some dual tech holds
01:14:25.270 --> 01:14:27.750
too. Like I have a different idea what I want
01:14:27.750 --> 01:14:31.250
to do with them. But like the slippery jug, I'm
01:14:31.250 --> 01:14:35.850
kind of tired of grabbing. It's like, can you
01:14:35.850 --> 01:14:39.270
hold on to a, can you make your hands wet before
01:14:39.270 --> 01:14:41.670
you grab this jug? Is the question. It's like,
01:14:41.750 --> 01:14:43.789
how much do you sweat? Yeah, I didn't know that
01:14:43.789 --> 01:14:46.989
you weren't allowed to use sprays either. I thought
01:14:46.989 --> 01:14:50.029
I saw people using those. You can spray your
01:14:50.029 --> 01:14:52.069
hands, but then they have to be dry before you
01:14:52.069 --> 01:14:53.529
get on the wall. And this was a change before
01:14:53.529 --> 01:14:57.470
Korea. So Brazil, they introduced you're not
01:14:57.470 --> 01:14:59.369
allowed to spit on your hands or lick your hands.
01:15:00.149 --> 01:15:03.409
Okay. Which I can see why if you're on live stream,
01:15:03.529 --> 01:15:05.729
it could potentially be like, I'm sure that like
01:15:05.729 --> 01:15:09.380
Jakob Schubert licking his hand. in the world
01:15:09.380 --> 01:15:11.979
jameson burn like went super viral and they're
01:15:11.979 --> 01:15:15.119
like this is a media disaster you can't do that
01:15:15.119 --> 01:15:20.060
anymore and then my so and honestly like i'm
01:15:20.060 --> 01:15:23.859
probably i don't know if they if like i'm the
01:15:23.859 --> 01:15:27.380
reason they they'd made this rule about the spray
01:15:27.380 --> 01:15:30.859
but i'm sure that i made the point that is probably
01:15:30.859 --> 01:15:35.289
made the rule is that like I was like, all right,
01:15:35.289 --> 01:15:37.229
well, I'm just going to soak my hands and then
01:15:37.229 --> 01:15:41.210
pull on a fiberglass hold. If I'm not doing a
01:15:41.210 --> 01:15:43.489
boulder, and I know I'm not doing the boulder,
01:15:43.550 --> 01:15:45.710
my last go, soak my hands, pull on the hole,
01:15:45.869 --> 01:15:49.470
make it so no one else can climb on it. Did you
01:15:49.470 --> 01:15:55.210
do that? No, but I talked about doing it openly
01:15:55.210 --> 01:15:58.170
in ISO. It wasn't like, ha, ha, ha, this is this
01:15:58.170 --> 01:16:00.510
trick I'm going to do. I was just like, well,
01:16:00.550 --> 01:16:01.590
I'm going to do that. And everyone was like,
01:16:01.670 --> 01:16:03.739
well, you can't do that. And I'm like. Tell me
01:16:03.739 --> 01:16:05.680
why I can't do that. And they're like, but it's
01:16:05.680 --> 01:16:07.659
cheating. And I'm like, then why are you allowed
01:16:07.659 --> 01:16:09.779
to spray your hands before you grab the dual
01:16:09.779 --> 01:16:14.420
text hold? You can't tell me that I can spray
01:16:14.420 --> 01:16:16.500
my hands for certain boulders, but I can't for
01:16:16.500 --> 01:16:19.699
other boulders. If I'm allowed to spray my hands,
01:16:19.899 --> 01:16:22.279
I'm allowed to spray them as much as I want,
01:16:22.439 --> 01:16:24.979
and I should be allowed to spray them on whatever
01:16:24.979 --> 01:16:27.359
boulder I want. And it's one of those cheeky
01:16:27.359 --> 01:16:30.619
things I say. We talked about this before the
01:16:30.619 --> 01:16:33.949
podcast. I'll say outlandish things just to kind
01:16:33.949 --> 01:16:36.989
of get a rise out of people. And I'm also like
01:16:36.989 --> 01:16:41.050
very anti, I don't like being told what I can
01:16:41.050 --> 01:16:44.109
and cannot do unless you can tell me a good reason
01:16:44.109 --> 01:16:47.270
why and like a logical reason why. I don't like
01:16:47.270 --> 01:16:50.510
rules or laws that don't have logic behind them.
01:16:50.930 --> 01:16:53.489
And if you can logistically tell me a reason
01:16:53.489 --> 01:16:55.470
why I shouldn't be doing something, then I'm
01:16:55.470 --> 01:16:58.130
happy to follow the rule. But if it's just based
01:16:58.130 --> 01:17:02.720
on feelings. Or if it's not a fair, like, legit,
01:17:02.800 --> 01:17:06.079
logical rule, I don't like it. And so that was
01:17:06.079 --> 01:17:09.140
like, I was like, okay, well, like, there's no
01:17:09.140 --> 01:17:11.439
reason I can't spray my hands right before I
01:17:11.439 --> 01:17:14.000
do, like, some kind of friction -dependent boulder,
01:17:14.119 --> 01:17:17.539
get it wet, and then the next person's bummed.
01:17:18.119 --> 01:17:20.220
And they're like, but it's unfair, it's treated.
01:17:20.300 --> 01:17:22.220
I'm like, I know, but it's just, right now, the
01:17:22.220 --> 01:17:25.000
rules allow it. And so that's why they probably
01:17:25.000 --> 01:17:27.159
changed the rules. That makes sense why that
01:17:27.159 --> 01:17:30.039
rule is that wet. It's a bummer because now they
01:17:30.039 --> 01:17:32.100
have introduced these like holds that are friction
01:17:32.100 --> 01:17:34.319
dependent or non -friction dependent. And then
01:17:34.319 --> 01:17:36.819
the setters will set boulders that are like paddle
01:17:36.819 --> 01:17:40.859
dyno to paddle. Like it's like, you know, friction
01:17:40.859 --> 01:17:43.960
dependent slope remove to dual text jug. And
01:17:43.960 --> 01:17:45.720
you're like, okay, I have to pick which one I
01:17:45.720 --> 01:17:49.319
want to be bad on. And that I don't like because
01:17:49.319 --> 01:17:51.579
I'm just frustrated that it's like you have to
01:17:51.579 --> 01:17:54.819
take a state. Yeah. I want to be able to change
01:17:54.819 --> 01:17:57.689
my state mid boulder. I mean, I guess the reason
01:17:57.689 --> 01:18:02.590
why they wouldn't want you to just ruin the climb
01:18:02.590 --> 01:18:05.430
for everyone else is just because it looks bad
01:18:05.430 --> 01:18:08.149
in terms of sportsmanship, I guess. No, exactly.
01:18:08.470 --> 01:18:13.189
I mean, I think that will make sense. And that's
01:18:13.189 --> 01:18:14.930
part of why I said it, too, is I was like, there's
01:18:14.930 --> 01:18:19.029
this gaping. And obviously, I think I'm contradicting
01:18:19.029 --> 01:18:21.229
myself because I started this argument off that
01:18:21.229 --> 01:18:23.050
I was frustrated that they made these new rules.
01:18:24.360 --> 01:18:26.880
And now I'm like, yes, I was probably part of
01:18:26.880 --> 01:18:29.180
the reason that they made these new rules because
01:18:29.180 --> 01:18:32.079
I like, and like I said, I don't know if anyone
01:18:32.079 --> 01:18:35.560
in the rules committee heard me say this or if
01:18:35.560 --> 01:18:38.439
one of the athletes told them, but I feel like
01:18:38.439 --> 01:18:40.819
I did bring up a really good point, which is
01:18:40.819 --> 01:18:43.699
why I would personally make this new rule. It's
01:18:43.699 --> 01:18:47.140
like someone at some point was going to do that
01:18:47.140 --> 01:18:49.859
because it was allowed. Like there was a hole
01:18:49.859 --> 01:18:54.460
in the rules and it needed to be filled. preferably
01:18:54.460 --> 01:18:58.340
before someone did that. Like I didn't do that,
01:18:58.380 --> 01:19:00.840
have no intention of doing that. But I thought
01:19:00.840 --> 01:19:02.699
of it as like, there's this giant loophole now
01:19:02.699 --> 01:19:04.420
where like, I'm allowed to spray my hands with
01:19:04.420 --> 01:19:07.699
water. Why would I not? Like, if I really wanted
01:19:07.699 --> 01:19:10.000
to do well, I'd just spray my hands with water
01:19:10.000 --> 01:19:13.560
right before I go. Part of it is like, I also
01:19:13.560 --> 01:19:15.279
just don't think it would help. Like, I think
01:19:15.279 --> 01:19:19.270
if I like, I don't know. if that was what I was
01:19:19.270 --> 01:19:21.630
focused on doing I don't think my round would
01:19:21.630 --> 01:19:23.470
I don't know I would probably just also not make
01:19:23.470 --> 01:19:25.369
the semi and then everyone would be like mad
01:19:25.369 --> 01:19:27.810
at me I don't think there are any climbers on
01:19:27.810 --> 01:19:29.550
this circuit right now who would do it I mean
01:19:29.550 --> 01:19:32.369
I remember like I don't remember if it was like
01:19:32.369 --> 01:19:34.250
last year the year before but there was like
01:19:34.250 --> 01:19:38.829
a slab start that like Yannick couldn't do. And
01:19:38.829 --> 01:19:40.869
so he kind of just like gave up and then brushed
01:19:40.869 --> 01:19:44.170
it for the next person. So I don't think anyone
01:19:44.170 --> 01:19:46.590
on the circuit would kind of go that route of
01:19:46.590 --> 01:19:48.550
like trying to sabotage other people's climbs.
01:19:49.050 --> 01:19:52.649
Yeah. No one's done it yet, but also the sport
01:19:52.649 --> 01:19:55.350
is growing and at some point someone was going
01:19:55.350 --> 01:19:58.090
to do it. Yeah. Someone should do it. I think
01:19:58.090 --> 01:20:01.350
a villain would be interesting to see. I would
01:20:01.350 --> 01:20:03.949
love a great, a good villain. Yeah. Someone who
01:20:03.949 --> 01:20:06.369
is just a terrible person and everyone can hate
01:20:06.369 --> 01:20:12.340
on. Couldn't be me. Okay. So thinking about the
01:20:12.340 --> 01:20:15.199
future going forward, while we are also kind
01:20:15.199 --> 01:20:17.680
of running low on time, what are your goals for
01:20:17.680 --> 01:20:21.100
2026 climbing and non -climbing related? I'm
01:20:21.100 --> 01:20:25.380
not quite sure yet. I'm kind of in a transition
01:20:25.380 --> 01:20:29.979
period. I want to make the team again in bouldering.
01:20:30.840 --> 01:20:32.979
I probably won't even compete in lead this year.
01:20:33.300 --> 01:20:35.619
Probably just focus on bouldering. And I have
01:20:35.619 --> 01:20:38.899
a bunch of outdoor. routes that I'd like to do.
01:20:40.180 --> 01:20:43.760
But time has gotten away from me and I'm kind
01:20:43.760 --> 01:20:46.180
of out of shape for lead climbing. So I think
01:20:46.180 --> 01:20:48.020
that those goals are going to be really hard
01:20:48.020 --> 01:20:51.680
to achieve before the season's over. I have some
01:20:51.680 --> 01:20:55.000
outdoor bouldering projects that I would also
01:20:55.000 --> 01:21:00.520
like to do. But Little Cottonwood is very tumultuous
01:21:00.520 --> 01:21:04.800
in the fall. And so I also don't know if I'll
01:21:04.800 --> 01:21:09.069
have time to do. those as well because potentially
01:21:09.069 --> 01:21:14.189
by next monday it'll be out of season for the
01:21:14.189 --> 01:21:19.050
fall wow okay like there's that there's like
01:21:19.050 --> 01:21:22.510
talk of it just getting snowed out and like and
01:21:22.510 --> 01:21:25.810
i we'll see everyone always says that and then
01:21:25.810 --> 01:21:28.289
the fall like we get a snowstorm in october and
01:21:28.289 --> 01:21:32.069
then nothing till like december like 15th or
01:21:32.069 --> 01:21:36.819
something but uh There is potential that the
01:21:36.819 --> 01:21:39.319
season's over pretty soon, and I just don't have
01:21:39.319 --> 01:21:42.020
time to climb those things either. I kind of
01:21:42.020 --> 01:21:44.420
accomplished my goal of two semis this year,
01:21:44.539 --> 01:21:48.199
so if I do make the team again, I think the next
01:21:48.199 --> 01:21:53.420
goal for me is a final, but it's hard. Yeah,
01:21:53.420 --> 01:21:56.159
oh, for sure. I know. Yeah, I know we're definitely
01:21:56.159 --> 01:21:57.899
running low on time, but I definitely want to
01:21:57.899 --> 01:22:00.420
get to some of the user -submitted questions.
01:22:00.819 --> 01:22:04.600
So first one I'll get into, this is from, like,
01:22:04.970 --> 01:22:07.250
Way back, I was going to go into it in the intro,
01:22:07.270 --> 01:22:09.590
but we veered a different direction. So we're
01:22:09.590 --> 01:22:12.149
going to ask this one now. Someone asked, did
01:22:12.149 --> 01:22:17.810
you really start climbing at two? Yes. I don't
01:22:17.810 --> 01:22:21.970
remember exactly. I don't remember, but it was
01:22:21.970 --> 01:22:24.970
like two or three. It was before I could walk.
01:22:26.109 --> 01:22:28.649
Jeez. Because my dad would like put me in a harness
01:22:28.649 --> 01:22:30.770
and they would just kind of like pull me up the
01:22:30.770 --> 01:22:32.829
wall and I would just like scramble up the wall.
01:22:33.640 --> 01:22:40.220
I also apparently at 18 months crawled. My mom
01:22:40.220 --> 01:22:44.619
like went to go put my sister down and I couldn't
01:22:44.619 --> 01:22:47.079
talk. I like didn't start talking until I was
01:22:47.079 --> 01:22:50.319
like really, I don't remember how old I was,
01:22:50.380 --> 01:22:53.520
but it was like very late in life. But I could
01:22:53.520 --> 01:22:57.220
crawl and I could walk. And my mom like let me
01:22:57.220 --> 01:23:00.060
go. I would like. basically communicated that
01:23:00.060 --> 01:23:02.000
I wanted to play outside. And she's like, yeah,
01:23:02.039 --> 01:23:03.539
I'm going to go put your sister down. And I could
01:23:03.539 --> 01:23:05.920
hear, I could like comprehend what she was saying.
01:23:05.960 --> 01:23:09.600
I just wasn't talking yet. And I like climbed
01:23:09.600 --> 01:23:13.840
over our five foot fence and walked to the park
01:23:13.840 --> 01:23:16.939
across the street. Oh my gosh. That's terrifying.
01:23:16.939 --> 01:23:19.420
And then my mom like heard some voices from outside
01:23:19.420 --> 01:23:21.720
the house and she opened the front door and there
01:23:21.720 --> 01:23:26.560
was a lady with a baby. Like, and was like, is
01:23:26.560 --> 01:23:29.630
this your baby? And so apparently I thought that
01:23:29.630 --> 01:23:33.930
the fire alarm caused fires. So I like went to
01:23:33.930 --> 01:23:35.989
where our fire spot was. My mom was like, if
01:23:35.989 --> 01:23:37.869
there's a fire, this is where you go. And I like
01:23:37.869 --> 01:23:40.270
went there. And then this lady like picked me
01:23:40.270 --> 01:23:43.090
up as I was like walking across the street at
01:23:43.090 --> 01:23:46.710
like 18 months in a diaper. And I like pointed
01:23:46.710 --> 01:23:49.130
my way home. So yes, I started very early. I
01:23:49.130 --> 01:23:53.430
was a very, very active kid. Like I hear my mom
01:23:53.430 --> 01:23:55.069
tells these stories and I'm like, damn, that
01:23:55.069 --> 01:23:58.229
sounds terrible. I really push you through it.
01:23:58.350 --> 01:24:01.289
You don't really remember doing that. No, I remember
01:24:01.289 --> 01:24:04.329
climbing into my mom's closet at a very young
01:24:04.329 --> 01:24:08.770
age. And then I don't think I ever fell out,
01:24:08.829 --> 01:24:10.750
but like very similar to the closet I have here.
01:24:10.810 --> 01:24:13.470
It's like a double door closet with the little
01:24:13.470 --> 01:24:15.989
shelf at the top. And I would like climb the
01:24:15.989 --> 01:24:18.930
door and then crawl into the little shelf. And
01:24:18.930 --> 01:24:20.970
now I'm looking at it and I'm like, wow, that's,
01:24:20.970 --> 01:24:24.149
I was really small if I could fit in there. I
01:24:24.149 --> 01:24:26.189
was, yeah, I just was like always on top of things.
01:24:27.650 --> 01:24:31.770
And I just have like infinite, I just have a
01:24:31.770 --> 01:24:34.470
bunch of memories of like my entire childhood
01:24:34.470 --> 01:24:37.189
getting yelled at by other parents for being
01:24:37.189 --> 01:24:40.149
on top of things. And it was really frustrating
01:24:40.149 --> 01:24:42.409
because I knew what I was doing and I was really
01:24:42.409 --> 01:24:45.369
good at it. And my mom was like, yeah, that's
01:24:45.369 --> 01:24:47.369
just what he does. And then someone else would
01:24:47.369 --> 01:24:49.090
come over and be like, you need to get down.
01:24:49.229 --> 01:24:51.609
And I'm like, you're not my mom. Leave me alone.
01:24:52.550 --> 01:24:55.130
Like we went to like the zoo and there was like
01:24:55.130 --> 01:24:57.890
a a playground that was like you would go inside
01:24:57.890 --> 01:24:59.569
of the playground and then climb in the side
01:24:59.569 --> 01:25:01.590
of it and of course like that was boring because
01:25:01.590 --> 01:25:04.289
it was made for kids so i would like climb the
01:25:04.289 --> 01:25:06.689
outside of it and like some mom came over and
01:25:06.689 --> 01:25:08.670
was like that's dangerous you need to get down
01:25:08.670 --> 01:25:14.310
and then at my first world youth world championships
01:25:14.310 --> 01:25:18.829
we like as a team went to the park to go get
01:25:18.829 --> 01:25:22.310
like you know it was like team activities or
01:25:22.310 --> 01:25:25.039
whatever and i like climbed a tree and then all
01:25:25.039 --> 01:25:27.039
the kids were like oh my god you're gonna get
01:25:27.039 --> 01:25:29.100
hurt you're gonna get down and I was like this
01:25:29.100 --> 01:25:31.220
is the only place I should feel safe and for
01:25:31.220 --> 01:25:33.420
some reason I don't feel safe right now I was
01:25:33.420 --> 01:25:36.119
like why am I getting called out by other US
01:25:36.119 --> 01:25:39.180
team athletes on the US rock climbing it was
01:25:39.180 --> 01:25:41.539
pretty funny I like really remember getting yelled
01:25:41.539 --> 01:25:43.279
at by all the kids and then like the coaches
01:25:43.279 --> 01:25:48.199
I think it was Meg Meg was like dude you're really
01:25:48.199 --> 01:25:50.680
upsetting all the other kids and I'm like I know
01:25:50.680 --> 01:25:54.069
you're good but like can You're making my job
01:25:54.069 --> 01:25:56.470
so much harder. Can you please come down? I'm
01:25:56.470 --> 01:25:58.390
like, I don't want to deal with all these teenagers
01:25:58.390 --> 01:26:00.810
that are freaking out because you're in this
01:26:00.810 --> 01:26:03.710
tree. I was like, that's fair. For you, I will
01:26:03.710 --> 01:26:05.890
get out of the tree. For these kids, I'm very
01:26:05.890 --> 01:26:08.750
upset that they don't also want to climb the
01:26:08.750 --> 01:26:10.289
tree with me. Well, you wouldn't want to get
01:26:10.289 --> 01:26:12.329
injured before. Yeah, they were like, you could
01:26:12.329 --> 01:26:14.149
get hurt before the comp. I was like, we're at
01:26:14.149 --> 01:26:17.010
a rock climbing competition. I'm sure I can climb
01:26:17.010 --> 01:26:21.550
this tree. yeah i feel fine um okay next one
01:26:21.550 --> 01:26:26.489
we'll go to um what kept you motivated to keep
01:26:26.489 --> 01:26:29.670
trying after all the failures at nationals to
01:26:29.670 --> 01:26:33.310
lead to your eventual success that's a good question
01:26:33.310 --> 01:26:42.510
um i mean one thing that like kept being a recycling
01:26:42.510 --> 01:26:47.369
like idea is that like i could never forgive
01:26:47.369 --> 01:26:53.310
myself if i like got you know it's it basically
01:26:53.310 --> 01:26:56.130
if at the end of my life i was like but what
01:26:56.130 --> 01:26:58.869
if like what if i kept trying and kept going
01:26:58.869 --> 01:27:01.470
like what could i have done if i had not quit
01:27:01.470 --> 01:27:06.529
um and i think that was like it was like you
01:27:06.529 --> 01:27:08.149
know like that was the that was the big one so
01:27:08.149 --> 01:27:12.590
i never forget myself i like could ask myself
01:27:12.590 --> 01:27:15.810
like what if I don't want to ever have that question
01:27:15.810 --> 01:27:17.489
of, like, what could have happened? Like, what
01:27:17.489 --> 01:27:20.470
could I have done? Like, I want to know, like,
01:27:20.510 --> 01:27:22.430
how far I've pushed myself and then be content
01:27:22.430 --> 01:27:24.750
with knowing that I've, like, done all that I
01:27:24.750 --> 01:27:28.010
can do to be the best that I could be. And then
01:27:28.010 --> 01:27:29.909
the other, you know, the other thing, too, is,
01:27:29.989 --> 01:27:33.229
like, I just really like climbing and I really
01:27:33.229 --> 01:27:36.770
love climbing and I'm really competitive. And
01:27:36.770 --> 01:27:41.229
so, like, and this may be a long tangent, but
01:27:41.229 --> 01:27:45.100
I'm just, like. keep wanting to be better and
01:27:45.100 --> 01:27:47.239
i don't feel like i've peaked i don't feel like
01:27:47.239 --> 01:27:49.359
i'm at the end and like i still just want to
01:27:49.359 --> 01:27:53.399
keep going and so like competitions i keep signing
01:27:53.399 --> 01:27:56.439
up because i just keep realizing that i want
01:27:56.439 --> 01:27:59.319
to compete and so and then as far as training
01:27:59.319 --> 01:28:04.100
goes like i'm still just fired up to be good
01:28:04.100 --> 01:28:06.760
and be i want to be one of the greats so bad
01:28:06.760 --> 01:28:11.939
yeah and so like i just it becomes really easy
01:28:11.939 --> 01:28:13.840
for me to motivate to go to the gym and to like
01:28:13.840 --> 01:28:15.939
keep training and so you were still having fun
01:28:15.939 --> 01:28:18.300
even after not making the team those times so
01:28:18.300 --> 01:28:20.319
you still wanted to keep doing it yeah there's
01:28:20.319 --> 01:28:22.359
definitely like a lot of times that i'm not having
01:28:22.359 --> 01:28:27.199
fun like being a professional athlete is definitely
01:28:27.199 --> 01:28:30.500
not fun all the time it's like a lot of crap
01:28:30.500 --> 01:28:34.539
and a lot of just suffering like but that's and
01:28:34.539 --> 01:28:36.359
i say professional athlete but that's just like
01:28:36.939 --> 01:28:39.439
being successful at anything and being really
01:28:39.439 --> 01:28:42.640
good at anything means like doing all of the
01:28:42.640 --> 01:28:46.239
crap and like you know i started this quote from
01:28:46.239 --> 01:28:49.180
another podcast that was like the crappy thing
01:28:49.180 --> 01:28:51.739
about all of these motivational movies is like
01:28:51.739 --> 01:28:54.600
the rocky the 30 second rocky scene or five second
01:28:54.600 --> 01:28:58.520
rocky scene lasts five seconds like all of these
01:28:58.520 --> 01:29:02.020
training montages last like five seconds like
01:29:02.020 --> 01:29:04.300
you don't realize that this stuff takes like
01:29:04.300 --> 01:29:10.439
five years like you know like that five second
01:29:10.439 --> 01:29:15.079
training montage is really like five years of
01:29:15.079 --> 01:29:18.260
your life yeah true like you got to do what they
01:29:18.260 --> 01:29:21.600
do in that montage for like five years straight
01:29:21.600 --> 01:29:24.880
and just eat crap for five years if you like
01:29:24.880 --> 01:29:29.819
really want to do the thing so like you know
01:29:29.819 --> 01:29:32.140
it's a lot of that but also I love competing
01:29:32.140 --> 01:29:34.100
and so like and I'm still having fun competing
01:29:34.750 --> 01:29:36.569
and so like before i signed up for nationals
01:29:36.569 --> 01:29:40.090
like i was like thought i was gonna maybe retire
01:29:40.090 --> 01:29:43.090
like thought i was gonna maybe not do it and
01:29:43.090 --> 01:29:45.109
then i thought about whether i wanted to go or
01:29:45.109 --> 01:29:48.729
not and i was like oh i actually like whether
01:29:48.729 --> 01:29:51.270
the result was good or not i was like i do want
01:29:51.270 --> 01:29:53.909
to go because i want to go compete and i just
01:29:53.909 --> 01:29:56.170
had continued to be training so i was like prepared
01:29:56.170 --> 01:29:59.369
and also less and mentally in a better position
01:29:59.369 --> 01:30:03.479
because i wanted to be there before like me And
01:30:03.479 --> 01:30:05.159
I think that's a good question too to ask is
01:30:05.159 --> 01:30:08.239
like if money wasn't an option or it wasn't like
01:30:08.239 --> 01:30:11.060
a thought, like if you weren't like, oh, like
01:30:11.060 --> 01:30:13.100
it's going to cost this much to go to team trials.
01:30:13.279 --> 01:30:16.319
And like, if I don't go to team trials, like
01:30:16.319 --> 01:30:18.699
my sponsors aren't going to pay me this much.
01:30:19.199 --> 01:30:22.100
And like, if I, you know, like if money's not
01:30:22.100 --> 01:30:24.199
a thing and you don't have to worry about getting
01:30:24.199 --> 01:30:27.119
paid by your sponsors or paying to go to an event
01:30:27.119 --> 01:30:30.100
or making money at a competition, like where
01:30:30.100 --> 01:30:32.260
do you go to that competition? Right. Like if
01:30:32.260 --> 01:30:34.380
it was just free to go and you didn't have to
01:30:34.380 --> 01:30:36.319
take off work or like whatever, like would you
01:30:36.319 --> 01:30:38.899
go? If the answer was yes, then you should like,
01:30:38.979 --> 01:30:41.279
you know, you should keep doing it. Yeah, that's
01:30:41.279 --> 01:30:43.260
a good way to think about it. Money does really
01:30:43.260 --> 01:30:46.119
complicate things though. It really complicates
01:30:46.119 --> 01:30:48.239
things. Not saying you shouldn't do things because
01:30:48.239 --> 01:30:49.939
of money and because like you can't afford it
01:30:49.939 --> 01:30:52.140
or whatever, but that's like an easy way to decide
01:30:52.140 --> 01:30:53.720
what you want to do with your life. It's like
01:30:53.720 --> 01:30:57.039
if money wasn't like involved in this, would
01:30:57.039 --> 01:31:00.229
I be doing that or not? Yeah. Okay. The next
01:31:00.229 --> 01:31:02.970
one, when you started climbing, what local climbers
01:31:02.970 --> 01:31:04.729
helped you or were people that you looked up
01:31:04.729 --> 01:31:08.770
to? Oh, that's a great question. I had a very
01:31:08.770 --> 01:31:12.710
lovely climbing community growing up. And you
01:31:12.710 --> 01:31:17.409
said New Mexico, right? Yeah, New Mexico. I had
01:31:17.409 --> 01:31:21.609
a great coach, Andre, who also owned the gym.
01:31:22.409 --> 01:31:25.229
And then he also hired another really amazing
01:31:25.229 --> 01:31:29.359
coach, Ed, who like... Took me under his wing
01:31:29.359 --> 01:31:34.859
and taught me a lot about rock climbing. And
01:31:34.859 --> 01:31:40.039
I picked up a lot of habits from him. He's an
01:31:40.039 --> 01:31:47.500
insomniac, doesn't sleep. I thought I was crazy
01:31:47.500 --> 01:31:50.640
back then, but now I will frequently wake up
01:31:50.640 --> 01:31:52.880
at 5 o 'clock in the morning and go climbing.
01:31:54.340 --> 01:31:57.420
which I'm sure is a byproduct. And, yeah, everyone's
01:31:57.420 --> 01:31:59.199
like, I would never be willing to do that. And
01:31:59.199 --> 01:32:01.279
I'm just like, no, it's just what you do. You
01:32:01.279 --> 01:32:03.079
just get up to five and go rock climbing. And
01:32:03.079 --> 01:32:05.960
that was, like, what he did. Dan was, like, a
01:32:05.960 --> 01:32:10.319
really great coach. Someone else I, like, really
01:32:10.319 --> 01:32:13.899
valued was Brendan, who was, like, a guy who
01:32:13.899 --> 01:32:15.579
was just climbing to the gym, was, like, part
01:32:15.579 --> 01:32:19.300
of the, like, adult homies. Like, he would climb
01:32:19.300 --> 01:32:23.329
with Ed. They would have, like, boys night. I
01:32:23.329 --> 01:32:26.069
remember when I was invited over for the first
01:32:26.069 --> 01:32:27.689
time, they were like, all right, I think you're
01:32:27.689 --> 01:32:29.449
finally old enough and mature enough to play
01:32:29.449 --> 01:32:33.369
comedy. But it's not. And then this dude, Mike,
01:32:33.489 --> 01:32:37.789
who was really amazing. But I had a really rad
01:32:37.789 --> 01:32:44.729
crew of adult men that all kind of put up with
01:32:44.729 --> 01:32:46.970
me because I was really not that fun to be around
01:32:46.970 --> 01:32:50.140
as a little teenager. What's one bit of climbing
01:32:50.140 --> 01:32:53.539
advice and life advice from that whole thing
01:32:53.539 --> 01:32:56.159
that you feel like resonates with you most to
01:32:56.159 --> 01:32:59.859
this day? Dude, one that I think about all the
01:32:59.859 --> 01:33:04.100
time, which is crazy, is I remember like when
01:33:04.100 --> 01:33:06.579
Brendan like sat me down and was like, dude,
01:33:06.720 --> 01:33:09.060
you cannot try the boulder problem from the ground
01:33:09.060 --> 01:33:11.720
every time. And I was like, that's what? Why
01:33:11.720 --> 01:33:13.300
not? And he was like, dude, that just makes no
01:33:13.300 --> 01:33:16.369
sense. He's like, you do all of the moves first
01:33:16.369 --> 01:33:20.029
and then you try it from the ground. And I like
01:33:20.029 --> 01:33:22.529
think about that all the time. And then still
01:33:22.529 --> 01:33:25.130
frequently have to tell people that like climb
01:33:25.130 --> 01:33:27.250
way too hard for me to be like, yo, why are you
01:33:27.250 --> 01:33:30.130
like trying it from the ground every time? Yeah.
01:33:30.170 --> 01:33:32.310
Like, what are you thinking? And they're like,
01:33:32.329 --> 01:33:34.109
well, I want to send it. I'm like, yeah. And
01:33:34.109 --> 01:33:36.050
you're not going to do that if you try it from
01:33:36.050 --> 01:33:38.829
the ground every time. Like figure out how to
01:33:38.829 --> 01:33:40.689
do the puzzle and then put the puzzle together.
01:33:41.640 --> 01:33:44.260
Okay. I do forget that one a lot, actually. Thanks
01:33:44.260 --> 01:33:48.079
for reminding me. Like I did it today. I tried
01:33:48.079 --> 01:33:49.859
this problem from the ground like four times
01:33:49.859 --> 01:33:51.680
in a row and I still had not done the second
01:33:51.680 --> 01:33:53.239
move, but I was just like, I'm going to do it
01:33:53.239 --> 01:33:56.439
from the ground. Never did the second move. Yeah,
01:33:56.500 --> 01:33:59.739
I get that. Then I think that is all the questions
01:33:59.739 --> 01:34:03.640
I had. Thanks for joining me again today. Yeah.
01:34:03.699 --> 01:34:06.260
Thanks for having me on again. I appreciate it.
01:34:06.439 --> 01:34:09.279
Are there any like... Other words of wisdom you
01:34:09.279 --> 01:34:11.579
came up with since that time that you want to
01:34:11.579 --> 01:34:13.960
get out there? Once again, I'm going to shout
01:34:13.960 --> 01:34:18.199
out Pusher and Osun. They're both just like really
01:34:18.199 --> 01:34:21.640
great sponsors and they're like making it possible
01:34:21.640 --> 01:34:26.079
that I can keep doing what I'm doing. I'm like,
01:34:26.239 --> 01:34:31.100
yeah, I'm really thankful for that. And where
01:34:31.100 --> 01:34:33.079
can people find you if they want to see more
01:34:33.079 --> 01:34:37.310
of your stuff? My Instagram is HannahSmash. I
01:34:37.310 --> 01:34:38.970
think that's it. I think Instagram is kind of
01:34:38.970 --> 01:34:42.189
the best place to find me. I'm at The Bouldering
01:34:42.189 --> 01:34:46.350
Project 30 hours a week, 30, 40 hours a week.
01:34:46.909 --> 01:34:49.430
Not 40. I never actually clocked 40. I actually
01:34:49.430 --> 01:34:51.050
had a conversation with Greg the other day where
01:34:51.050 --> 01:34:54.449
he was like, dude, you work full time. You've
01:34:54.449 --> 01:34:56.710
got to be in here more often. You haven't hit
01:34:56.710 --> 01:34:59.430
your minimum for full time in three weeks now.
01:35:01.170 --> 01:35:03.789
Part of it was because I was off doing comps.
01:35:04.109 --> 01:35:07.590
Yeah, understandable. I don't actually work a
01:35:07.590 --> 01:35:10.550
full time job. I work almost a full time job.
01:35:10.649 --> 01:35:13.109
I'm like the bare minimum to be full time. It
01:35:13.109 --> 01:35:15.090
just feels like a lot because I spent most of
01:35:15.090 --> 01:35:17.989
my life just goofing off and rock climbing. And
01:35:17.989 --> 01:35:21.390
so 30 hours of work feels a lot more than no
01:35:21.390 --> 01:35:24.329
hours of work. Yeah. I mean, in addition to training,
01:35:24.529 --> 01:35:27.310
it is a lot of time spent in the gym. I do work
01:35:27.310 --> 01:35:30.109
like two full time jobs. I work like 30 hours
01:35:30.109 --> 01:35:32.850
of the Bullroom Project and then I'm a professional
01:35:32.850 --> 01:35:37.500
athlete. And then I... like to take on other
01:35:37.500 --> 01:35:41.500
things so i'm got like three other things going
01:35:41.500 --> 01:35:44.579
on too they're taking a bunch of time it's a
01:35:44.579 --> 01:35:47.539
lot i don't know how you handle it but good luck
01:35:48.189 --> 01:35:51.069
Thank you. Okay, awesome. Well, thank you again
01:35:51.069 --> 01:35:53.189
for joining me. And it was another great talk.
01:35:53.449 --> 01:35:55.109
Yeah, thank you so much. Really appreciate it.
01:35:55.170 --> 01:35:57.649
Thank you so much for making it to the end of
01:35:57.649 --> 01:36:00.109
the podcast. Don't forget to like and subscribe
01:36:00.109 --> 01:36:03.149
if you enjoyed. Otherwise, you are a super big
01:36:03.149 --> 01:36:05.989
climber. If you're listening on a podcasting
01:36:05.989 --> 01:36:08.130
platform, I'd appreciate if you rate it five
01:36:08.130 --> 01:36:10.890
stars and you can continue the discussion on
01:36:10.890 --> 01:36:13.609
the free competition climbing discord linked
01:36:13.609 --> 01:36:16.069
in the description. Thanks again for listening.
01:36:17.520 --> 01:36:17.779
Thank you.
