54: Rachel Carr, Team GB Coach
Rachel is a Team GB coach and also Erin McNeice’s personal coach! She started as an athlete and competed in youth worlds, but moved down the coaching path shortly after. In this episode, we’ll talk about performance anxiety as an athlete, the difficulties she faced being taken seriously as a young female coach, and we’ll get insight into team GB’s training as well as Erin’s insanely huge team of coaches.
Timestamps
Timestamps of discussion topics
0:00 - Intro
1:23 - Mad Rock Shoutout!!
2:03 - Getting ready for British Bouldering Champs
4:41 - Performance anxiety as an athlete
8:59 - Being "realistic" on your performance
13:46 - Becoming a coach
15:44 - AUDIENCE Q: Difference between coaching youth vs senior?
20:48 - Weirdness of coaching your past competition
23:47 - Lack of trust in female coaches
31:44 - AUDIENCE Q: What advice would you give to aspiring female coaches?
34:29 - Erin's crazy huge team of coaches!
40:23 - Team GB's philosophy on training style
43:48 - Erin's 1 weird weakness...
45:47 - Overrated and underrated training techniques?
50:17 - Climbing goals
53:57 - What's better than coaching at the Olympics?
56:44 - AUDIENCE Q: Why was GB Climbing funding so bad?
58:43 - AUDIENCE Q: Team GB is so strong right now, how has that impacted camaraderie amongst athletes?
1:03:05 - AUDIENCE Q: How do you coach the mental side of competition?
1:07:53 - AUDIENCE Q: How do you think new comps like PCL will impact the scene for athletes and coaches?
1:10:05 - AUDIENCE Q: Tips for new coaches?
1:12:47 - Where to find Rachel
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WEBVTT
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I've had someone throw up on me before from nerves.
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People thinking that I knew what I was doing
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was a challenge, or at least it still feels like
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a challenge. I think even now I've coached Erin
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to a pretty high level and I don't have a queue
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of other athletes at the door that are like,
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I have to work with you because you coach so
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well. It always feels like I've kind of been
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brushed off as not being that involved. Somebody
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questioned the fact that there was all -male
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coaches going to it. and the response that they
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got is there's no female coaches functioning
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at the level but when we're trying to do trainings
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and stuff we'll always make sure that there's
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at least one day of a training where it's just
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brutal and people get shut down welcome to another
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episode of the that's not real climbing podcast
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i'm your host Jinni and i'm excited to introduce
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my guest for today Rachel Carr Rachel is a Team
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GB coach and also Erin McNeice's personal coach.
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She started as an athlete and competed in youth
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worlds, but moved down the coaching path shortly
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after. In this episode, we'll talk about performance
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anxiety as an athlete, the difficulties she faced
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being taken seriously as a young female coach,
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and we'll get insight into Team GB's training
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as well as Erin's insanely huge team of coaches.
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I hope you enjoy this episode with Rachel. Thank
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you. Please pardon this brief intermission, but
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Now, back to the show. How are you doing today?
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Yeah, good. Had a kind of busy day, but managed
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to just get a climb in just now, so I'm feeling
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pretty chilled. You don't get much time to climb
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for yourself. Like, this time of year we get
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a fair bit, I guess, because... like the athletes
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are at the wall so if I'm training the athletes
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sometimes I can stay afterwards but it's like
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such a busy period just now like I'm going away
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next week and we've got British boulder champs
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this weekend so I'm not going to get to climb
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Saturday or Sunday um so it's like my last day
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because I'm super busy tomorrow so it's sometimes
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it's really inconsistent but sometimes we actually
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have loads of time it's just getting the consistency
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across multiple weeks is the challenge Yeah,
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that's kind of the important part of making improvements
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with climbing. Do you have to like prepare anything
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for the British bouldering champs? No, we kind
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of, so we have our events team, which is Zoe,
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who I think you've actually done an episode with.
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So she, because it's like a BMC run event, it's
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the national champs, like selection is only a
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small part of it. So she kind of organizes all
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of that. And then my part is I just show up on
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a coach on the day. But it's kind of like. even
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my role there is just in case anybody needs me
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or like helping run the day a little bit because
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I don't actually have really any athletes that
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need me anymore they either all work as other
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people as well so they can get coached by them
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um or they don't need my help really okay so
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that'll be kind of chill just like a fun event
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for you to watch I mean it's a long day it's
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like 9am till 9pm on Saturday I think so a lot
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of time in a bouldering wall because we'll have
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to stay to help it with everything and like be
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there from the start right up until it's finished
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So it'll probably be quite tiring, but I might
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be doing very little the whole day. You mentioned
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that you don't have too many athletes that you're
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coaching for anymore? Yeah, it's kind of the
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way that this setup works. Because I'm full -time
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with GB, I basically only coach GB athletes.
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I have one or two that I'll write training plans
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for or I'll do what I used to do some sessions
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with, but I'm so busy now that I don't have time
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to do sessions with them because I'm so involved
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in the GB side of things. I coach like a couple
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of people that are in the program like in receipt
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of funding but a lot of them have other coaches
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so they don't actually like need my help or they
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just don't want it for whatever reason they work
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with other people because there's Liam that's
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there as well so I mainly just coach Erin and
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then I do some sessions with like Emma Everards
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and then I do like team trainings with people
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but in terms of like on a weekly basis it's pretty
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limited I do a lot of like the behind the scenes
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stuff as part of my time okay so I guess for
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those who don't um know your backstory super
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well how did you get into climbing and then competing
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and then coaching um so I was a gymnast first
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I did gymnastics from like a young age but my
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mom's friend was really into adventure sports
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she did like paragliding and stuff and she took
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me climbing I think it was either for the first
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time or the second time because I'd done one
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of those like temporary walls that they had in
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like car parks I don't know if you've ever done
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that um but yeah wait did you do paragliding
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yeah she might like she was really into all of
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that extreme sportsy stuff yeah and the thing
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that she introduced me to I never got to do paragliding
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maybe I would have gotten to that um but yeah
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she took me climbing and because of gymnastics
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I was quite good at it straight away so got really
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psyched on it and was like oh I want to do this
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this is way more fun it's way less like rigid
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you don't have to be absolutely perfect you can
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just do it your way so then i it's good gymnastics
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pretty quick and i think it was like within the
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first year maybe i was like british champ or
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like shortly after having climbed for a year
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um it wasn't that many people competing at the
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time um and then was on the team like a year
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and a half after starting and competed until
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i was 19 on the youth circuit i did like i competed
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in lead boulder and speed technically but Not
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to any successful level in any of them, definitely
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not in speed. Why did you decide to stop competing?
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And how did you know it was time for you to move
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on to something else? I guess I was kind of lucky
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in that I wasn't good enough to transition to
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senior. So it was kind of decided for me. But
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I didn't realize I hadn't made the senior team.
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And I had the conversation with the coach, like,
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I don't think I want to keep competing because
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I just had loads of performance anxiety. It wasn't
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really understood at that time. Nobody turned
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around and said it was performance anxiety. It
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was only years later that I was like, oh, that's
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why I felt so miserable all the time. I felt
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like I was always underperforming in competitions,
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which I think a lot of athletes do. But the anxiety
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that I feel now felt very similar to what I was
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feeling every day at a competition and when I
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was on the mat. constantly like in my own head
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and thinking so many negative things I couldn't
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just get past it and like try hard on the boulders
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and it got to the point where I would finish
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a round and I wouldn't want to look at the results
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because I'd be like oh I actually think I climbed
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quite well there I'm really happy with that and
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then somebody else would come up and be like
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oh congrats you finished here and then I would
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just like spiral even though it would be a pretty
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okay result nothing terrible I would just like
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completely spiral and feel horrible afterwards
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and I was like I don't think this is worth it
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anymore. Interesting. I actually never heard
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that perspective before of like, yeah, what performance
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anxiety feels like. Now, as a coach, if you're
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thinking back about like what you would tell
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yourself at that time, is there anything you
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would have said to like help make it feel better?
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Yeah, I mean, it's kind of what's helped me in
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my coaching. I can actually empathize a lot more
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with most athletes because I think a lot of athletes
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do experience performance anxiety. It's so rare
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that people actually don't ever. have any of
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this at all because of course you're putting
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yourself out there you're like on a stage you
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have to perform consistently your results do
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matter because you are competing but it's how
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they matter and what they mean to you and I think
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the things that I would look back on now and
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I just wish that somebody had said here's where
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you really are like here's where you actually
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compare and how you should do because I always
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had this idea in my head of like being on the
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British team we were like a really small team
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we weren't expected to do really well. And then
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I would go out on the mat thinking, oh, if I
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can just do one boulder, that's quite good. But
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then other people would obviously do a lot more
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boulders or it would be very varied. And one
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or two athletes would perform really well, but
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the rest of us would be in the midfield. And
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it was this battle in my head of, we're a small
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nation. There's a few outliers talented, but
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generally we're not that good. Whereas if somebody
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had actually said to me, no, you're actually
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really good. We've picked you to go to these
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competitions because we think you can make a
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final and make a podium. So you have to aim for
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that. Then I might have actually gone out and
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believed that I could do that. Whereas I don't
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remember at any point thinking I can definitely
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make a final. I remember being disappointed when
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I didn't, but never actually believing that I
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could be in a final or be on a podium. Well,
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maybe this is like my bad mentality, but sometimes
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I'm just like, okay, I should just be like realistic.
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And maybe I'm like not really that good and it's
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fine. And that would like help me mentally. I
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mean, I was definitely the same. I was like,
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if I expect the worst and it goes well amazing
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and if it goes bad I expected it so I'm not going
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to be disappointed right I was always disappointed
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it didn't matter I was if anything more disappointed
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because it was like I was trying to trick myself
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into not expecting it and then just like in the
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back of my head I'd be like oh but today's probably
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going to be the day where like I'll I'll win
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right no never because I was never thinking that
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I could do it there was never that like outlying
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belief it was hope it wasn't like determination
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that actually was pushing me to try harder as
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much as i felt like i was trying really hard
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like if i didn't have the belief behind it how
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hard can i really be trying so you have to like
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yes there's some like there's some reality in
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it and it's the same with athletes now if i if
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i don't think that an athlete can at least get
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close to a final i'm not going to sit there and
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be like you're going to definitely make this
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final i'll have like a pretty constructive conversation
00:10:11.720 --> 00:10:14.210
with them about like what they should be aiming
00:10:14.210 --> 00:10:16.149
for and what they're capable of what they need
00:10:16.149 --> 00:10:18.409
to do to get there as well it's not just you
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can do it or you can't do it but I often try
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and say to other people and like it might have
00:10:23.289 --> 00:10:25.409
been helpful to me if somebody was saying like
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you struggle on these ones okay so just focus
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on this one thing and if you can do that then
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you can get this and then we'll get this one
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out of the way and you probably need to do xyz
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and that might get you this and if you can't
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do that that's okay we can go away and we can
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work on this and bring it back and it's more
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constructive it's more like tactical in the approach
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which I could have had that from coaches it just
00:10:47.129 --> 00:10:48.970
didn't it was never said in a way that stuck
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with me so I was always just like oh I'm talented
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but not good enough and I can do some boulders
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but I just can't do these ones and it was little
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things like when I would approach a downer I'd
00:11:01.789 --> 00:11:03.289
be looking at the mat rather than looking at
00:11:03.289 --> 00:11:05.129
the hold because I was like already thinking
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I wasn't going to do it like I don't know what
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I needed to be told in that moment but I wasn't
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being told it because I couldn't do it so. Okay.
00:11:12.039 --> 00:11:14.440
Now that's an interesting perspective because
00:11:14.440 --> 00:11:19.139
I have like a coach that I like sometimes work
00:11:19.139 --> 00:11:22.500
with and he'll say things about like what I could
00:11:22.500 --> 00:11:25.360
do. And I'm like, I think you're lying to me.
00:11:25.679 --> 00:11:28.840
I don't feel like I could do that. And I think
00:11:28.840 --> 00:11:30.879
you're just trying to say things so that I feel
00:11:30.879 --> 00:11:33.539
like I can do it when you know I can't do it.
00:11:34.019 --> 00:11:37.419
So it's interesting to hear you say that you
00:11:37.419 --> 00:11:39.740
wouldn't lie to an athlete about what they could
00:11:39.740 --> 00:11:43.330
do at least. Yeah, I mean, I'm also quite optimistic
00:11:43.330 --> 00:11:47.429
as well. So if I, I would never lie to them,
00:11:47.450 --> 00:11:49.309
but I know what the coaches might be like, but
00:11:49.309 --> 00:11:51.870
they've got no chance of doing that. So I'll
00:11:51.870 --> 00:11:53.509
just not say it. I don't think any coach would
00:11:53.509 --> 00:11:55.750
be like, you can't make a seven final World Cup.
00:11:55.850 --> 00:11:58.350
I think they would just say, just keep trying.
00:11:58.490 --> 00:12:01.009
Maybe next time I keep going. Whereas I'm always.
00:12:01.840 --> 00:12:03.620
the optimistic one in our team where if we're
00:12:03.620 --> 00:12:05.679
predicting results for next year i'll be like
00:12:05.679 --> 00:12:07.299
oh yeah i think this athlete can make a final
00:12:07.299 --> 00:12:09.159
consistently easily yeah they've got they've
00:12:09.159 --> 00:12:10.500
done this this year they'll definitely do it
00:12:10.500 --> 00:12:12.639
next year and people are like are you sure but
00:12:12.639 --> 00:12:15.620
like so far touch wood i've been fairly right
00:12:15.620 --> 00:12:22.580
um and like i'm a firm believer that if you don't
00:12:22.580 --> 00:12:25.620
actively like be positive to people then it's
00:12:25.620 --> 00:12:27.460
really hard for them to be positive to themselves
00:12:27.460 --> 00:12:31.399
like in the uk especially everybody's a bit too
00:12:31.399 --> 00:12:33.080
real all the time they're a bit too negative
00:12:33.080 --> 00:12:35.620
nobody wants to like run away with themselves
00:12:35.620 --> 00:12:38.759
and get excited and just be really like happy
00:12:38.759 --> 00:12:40.039
about everything because they're like oh it's
00:12:40.039 --> 00:12:44.100
not a happy calm down so I try and just say like
00:12:44.100 --> 00:12:47.000
a nice thing like a compliment or like pull out
00:12:47.000 --> 00:12:49.279
all the positive stuff some people have like
00:12:49.279 --> 00:12:51.279
said that I'm like toxically positive before
00:12:51.279 --> 00:12:53.320
because I'm not realistic I don't call stuff
00:12:53.320 --> 00:12:56.259
out but then it's equally if you were to ask
00:12:56.259 --> 00:12:58.440
Erin for example like she's joked about the fact
00:12:58.440 --> 00:13:01.809
that I'm just mean so it's like it depends on
00:13:01.809 --> 00:13:04.090
the context I'll try and if they've had a bad
00:13:04.090 --> 00:13:05.830
performance really draw on the positives because
00:13:05.830 --> 00:13:08.009
there's always positives to draw on it but then
00:13:08.009 --> 00:13:10.250
if there needs to be a harsh conversation I'll
00:13:10.250 --> 00:13:12.629
have that harsh conversation at the same time
00:13:12.629 --> 00:13:15.029
so it's like I try to get that balance so that
00:13:15.029 --> 00:13:17.049
they know if I'm saying something I do genuinely
00:13:17.049 --> 00:13:20.870
believe that that can be a possibility like if
00:13:20.870 --> 00:13:23.850
Erin's there like oh I can't possibly do this
00:13:23.850 --> 00:13:26.509
boulder and I don't think she can I'm like okay
00:13:26.509 --> 00:13:28.129
well let's focus on how we get you as far up
00:13:28.129 --> 00:13:30.529
as possible that's not saying you're going to
00:13:30.529 --> 00:13:32.429
do the boulder but maybe if you work on it you
00:13:32.429 --> 00:13:34.669
might break it down whereas if she can do it
00:13:34.669 --> 00:13:35.990
i'll be like are you joking obviously that one's
00:13:35.990 --> 00:13:37.889
easy for you like just just go and get on with
00:13:37.889 --> 00:13:39.850
it which is like maybe a bit mean to say it like
00:13:39.850 --> 00:13:43.269
that it's like positive it's really it's hard
00:13:43.269 --> 00:13:45.629
to read a lot of the time but it's hopefully
00:13:45.629 --> 00:13:49.889
genuine a lot okay good to know um so yeah we
00:13:49.889 --> 00:13:52.269
got derailed a bit but after you stopped competing
00:13:52.269 --> 00:13:54.470
yourself um how did you get into the coaching
00:13:54.470 --> 00:13:58.830
side So I kind of mentored younger athletes when
00:13:58.830 --> 00:14:01.629
I was still competing. So I think when I was
00:14:01.629 --> 00:14:04.610
16, there was like a local charity club that
00:14:04.610 --> 00:14:07.129
would go climbing. And my mom was basically like,
00:14:07.230 --> 00:14:09.250
come and help out, come and do some coaching
00:14:09.250 --> 00:14:11.129
or mentoring as a younger athlete. So I started
00:14:11.129 --> 00:14:15.529
it in that sense. And then was main team captain
00:14:15.529 --> 00:14:18.370
on my last year in the boulder team, which was
00:14:18.370 --> 00:14:20.549
basically like one of the older kids looking
00:14:20.549 --> 00:14:23.450
after younger kids. But in that, I kind of was
00:14:23.450 --> 00:14:26.000
coaching. like I would say it was definitely
00:14:26.000 --> 00:14:28.879
coaching now based on what I remember doing feedback
00:14:28.879 --> 00:14:31.200
wise and I remember some of the younger athletes
00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:32.700
were like crying and I was comforting them would
00:14:32.700 --> 00:14:34.120
be like go on try the boulder again and that
00:14:34.120 --> 00:14:36.980
that to me is coaching um and it just kind of
00:14:36.980 --> 00:14:39.379
like carried on that way I started working with
00:14:39.379 --> 00:14:41.039
a couple younger athletes and coaching them at
00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:44.320
like local competitions and then in like 2017
00:14:44.320 --> 00:14:46.399
I think I'd been out of the team for like a year
00:14:46.399 --> 00:14:49.519
and a half I got asked to come in I guess it
00:14:49.519 --> 00:14:53.419
was chaperoning youth worlds um but I was I felt
00:14:53.419 --> 00:14:54.799
like I was doing the role that I'm doing now
00:14:54.799 --> 00:14:56.539
in that sense. I was kind of coming back as a
00:14:56.539 --> 00:14:58.879
coach and got loads of really good feedback from
00:14:58.879 --> 00:15:00.200
the athletes where they were like, oh, that was
00:15:00.200 --> 00:15:02.700
great. Can we get her back again? And then got
00:15:02.700 --> 00:15:05.480
various roles that pushed me up from like youth
00:15:05.480 --> 00:15:08.120
team coach for like Scotland to then British
00:15:08.120 --> 00:15:11.620
team to then where I am now, basically. And do
00:15:11.620 --> 00:15:13.960
you also coach like the speed team or is that
00:15:13.960 --> 00:15:17.879
a totally different person? We kind of don't
00:15:17.879 --> 00:15:21.399
have a speed team coach. I definitely don't.
00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:23.779
coached them I have supported them at competitions
00:15:23.779 --> 00:15:26.179
I would never try and claim that I have coached
00:15:26.179 --> 00:15:27.820
them because they've got as far as they have
00:15:27.820 --> 00:15:29.879
on their own there's some really impressive like
00:15:29.879 --> 00:15:33.059
what they do but I have supported them at competitions
00:15:33.059 --> 00:15:36.120
and I technically did coach a speed team like
00:15:36.120 --> 00:15:39.700
a local speed team when I was like 19 but I'm
00:15:39.700 --> 00:15:41.559
definitely not a speed coach I don't know how
00:15:41.559 --> 00:15:45.399
to do that it's very different yeah with my skillset
00:15:45.799 --> 00:15:47.940
One of the Instagram questions that also come
00:15:47.940 --> 00:15:51.440
through kind of related to this from Lucky Penguin
00:15:51.440 --> 00:15:54.159
3. What's the difference between coaching the
00:15:54.159 --> 00:15:57.440
youth team versus the senior team? Well, coaching
00:15:57.440 --> 00:15:59.960
the youth team is kind of early development stages.
00:16:00.139 --> 00:16:03.559
So you have a lot of athletes, a lot of different
00:16:03.559 --> 00:16:05.700
ages, but also a lot of different stages and
00:16:05.700 --> 00:16:09.000
where they are at. So some of them might be really
00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:11.639
self -sufficient in a lot of ways already and
00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:13.440
have a really good understanding of what they
00:16:13.440 --> 00:16:15.700
need to do to perform. And you can kind of just
00:16:15.700 --> 00:16:18.039
leave them to it, be there if they need you.
00:16:18.759 --> 00:16:20.840
But a lot of the time, you're getting athletes
00:16:20.840 --> 00:16:22.799
that don't know how to warm up, don't know how
00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:25.100
to fuel for the session, don't know how to read
00:16:25.100 --> 00:16:28.019
boulders, are stressed a lot. There's a lot more
00:16:28.019 --> 00:16:30.679
tears and youth. I've had someone throw up on
00:16:30.679 --> 00:16:35.320
me before from nerves. Wait, oh my God. Was this
00:16:35.320 --> 00:16:39.159
like during a competition? Yeah, I'd feel for
00:16:39.159 --> 00:16:42.879
her because she got really stressed. And I was...
00:16:43.509 --> 00:16:45.870
i wasn't like 100 % believing her so it's my
00:16:45.870 --> 00:16:47.730
fault because i was like no no you're fine you're
00:16:47.730 --> 00:16:49.870
fine you're gonna just go it'll be all right
00:16:49.870 --> 00:16:52.049
oh you've thrown up on me not on me but like
00:16:52.049 --> 00:16:54.590
very close to me and i had to clean it up like
00:16:54.590 --> 00:16:57.250
mid -competition um and then she went out and
00:16:57.250 --> 00:16:58.809
she like did really well on the route and came
00:16:58.809 --> 00:17:00.169
back and was like okay i feel better now i was
00:17:00.169 --> 00:17:03.690
like how did you do that that was insane um it
00:17:03.690 --> 00:17:06.950
only happened once though but like there's there's
00:17:06.950 --> 00:17:09.400
obviously a lot of stress and it's exactly what
00:17:09.400 --> 00:17:11.839
i remember from competing so again i have a lot
00:17:11.839 --> 00:17:13.460
of empathy for them i have a lot of time for
00:17:13.460 --> 00:17:16.380
them i'll sit with them while they cry but sometimes
00:17:16.380 --> 00:17:18.420
it's like a harsh word sometimes it's just supportive
00:17:18.420 --> 00:17:20.500
so you're doing a lot of like emotional management
00:17:20.500 --> 00:17:24.559
but also kind of like herding cats and that you
00:17:24.559 --> 00:17:26.980
have to just check that everybody's like actually
00:17:26.980 --> 00:17:28.519
started growing up at the right time that they
00:17:28.519 --> 00:17:30.660
know what boulders are on that they have actually
00:17:30.660 --> 00:17:33.140
paid attention to like what sequence they're
00:17:33.140 --> 00:17:34.940
going to do for like the european format because
00:17:34.940 --> 00:17:37.259
it's that like flash format rather than on -site
00:17:38.089 --> 00:17:41.150
and it's a lot of like also hanging out with
00:17:41.150 --> 00:17:42.670
them entertaining them you have to take them
00:17:42.670 --> 00:17:45.250
around for like five days so i found youth comps
00:17:45.250 --> 00:17:49.890
exhausting like super super tiring um but it's
00:17:49.890 --> 00:17:51.089
obviously good training and then when you get
00:17:51.089 --> 00:17:54.670
to seniors in theory they've already had all
00:17:54.670 --> 00:17:56.609
that support and that learning so they should
00:17:56.609 --> 00:17:59.549
come to us and know their warm -up a bit better
00:17:59.549 --> 00:18:01.289
but obviously there's always things where you
00:18:01.289 --> 00:18:02.710
have to be like oh i think you should add this
00:18:02.710 --> 00:18:04.369
to your warm -up or stop doing this or maybe
00:18:04.369 --> 00:18:07.410
you should do this um or we're just like setting
00:18:07.410 --> 00:18:09.910
orders for them or sometimes it's just reminding
00:18:09.910 --> 00:18:11.809
them what time it is there's one athlete that
00:18:11.809 --> 00:18:13.690
my only job for them is to tell them what time
00:18:13.690 --> 00:18:17.009
it is constantly and just check where they're
00:18:17.009 --> 00:18:19.710
at give them updates bring good vibes play cards
00:18:19.710 --> 00:18:24.109
whatever it's very like they are very much more
00:18:24.109 --> 00:18:27.269
autonomous with it and we're adapting to the
00:18:27.269 --> 00:18:28.950
athlete needs whereas like the youth team you
00:18:28.950 --> 00:18:31.789
kind of have to be really proactive and assume
00:18:31.789 --> 00:18:33.369
that they don't know anything so that you can
00:18:33.369 --> 00:18:34.930
come in and just check that they do actually
00:18:34.930 --> 00:18:37.579
nothing Yeah, actually, I'm now realizing it
00:18:37.579 --> 00:18:39.799
seems like actually a lot more work to do youth
00:18:39.799 --> 00:18:42.460
than senior. Yeah, I remember my first World
00:18:42.460 --> 00:18:45.079
Cup, like I was obviously very scared because
00:18:45.079 --> 00:18:47.380
I was out front doing like the appeals and the
00:18:47.380 --> 00:18:49.559
filming on my own. So I was like, OK, if I mess
00:18:49.559 --> 00:18:51.839
this up, there's no one else here to to help
00:18:51.839 --> 00:18:53.819
me. And at the end of the day, they were like,
00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:55.359
oh, how was your first senior? I was like, oh,
00:18:55.380 --> 00:18:57.779
so much easier, so much easier than a youth comp.
00:18:57.920 --> 00:18:59.640
This is so chill. And they were like, what? Really?
00:18:59.759 --> 00:19:01.240
I was like, yeah, God, I don't have to like,
00:19:01.319 --> 00:19:04.210
nobody's cried. It's great. True. Yeah, so I
00:19:04.210 --> 00:19:06.349
guess the appeals process didn't stress you out?
00:19:06.430 --> 00:19:10.410
I know some coaches are very intense about their
00:19:10.410 --> 00:19:13.490
athletes and putting in appeals. Do you feel
00:19:13.490 --> 00:19:18.769
like that's your vibe? I flip between. I find
00:19:18.769 --> 00:19:22.970
it's quite fun. I think because I competed myself
00:19:22.970 --> 00:19:25.269
and I've never really left competitions, my understanding
00:19:25.269 --> 00:19:28.390
of the rules was pretty in -depth anyway. I didn't
00:19:28.390 --> 00:19:31.859
really have to... go through and like study the
00:19:31.859 --> 00:19:33.599
rules and memorize the numbers or anything I
00:19:33.599 --> 00:19:35.900
kind of just instinctively knew what was a rule
00:19:35.900 --> 00:19:40.019
and what wasn't and like I remember in the first
00:19:40.019 --> 00:19:42.059
comp that somebody topped and they didn't talk
00:19:42.059 --> 00:19:43.579
properly or they topped out of the time or something
00:19:43.579 --> 00:19:45.720
and I straight away just with total confidence
00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:47.220
wrote the appeal and handed it in and was like
00:19:47.220 --> 00:19:50.299
yeah great fine no questions like wasn't stressed
00:19:50.299 --> 00:19:53.819
and I was pretty comfortable that I could go
00:19:53.819 --> 00:19:56.940
up and I I kind of had a card to play if I was
00:19:56.940 --> 00:19:59.720
a young coach So I would just go, oh, can I just
00:19:59.720 --> 00:20:02.240
check what this is? I'm just not really sure.
00:20:02.359 --> 00:20:05.559
And I wasn't, so it was accurate. But then it
00:20:05.559 --> 00:20:07.819
would be a case of like, oh, no, let me check
00:20:07.819 --> 00:20:09.339
it or let me do this. And then I'll have to put
00:20:09.339 --> 00:20:12.180
an actual appeal in or something. So it can be
00:20:12.180 --> 00:20:16.319
like a tactful game, but generally it's viewed
00:20:16.319 --> 00:20:18.359
from my perspective anyway. You're just trying
00:20:18.359 --> 00:20:19.940
to actually make the competition fair because
00:20:19.940 --> 00:20:22.859
judges do make mistakes. We've seen some competitions
00:20:22.859 --> 00:20:25.400
like Madrid where the judges were very inexperienced.
00:20:25.400 --> 00:20:27.599
So there was a huge number of appeals that went
00:20:27.599 --> 00:20:29.619
in, but all of them got passed because actually
00:20:29.619 --> 00:20:32.559
it was just bad judging. So generally, that's
00:20:32.559 --> 00:20:33.839
the position that our coaches are coming from.
00:20:33.940 --> 00:20:36.539
But of course, when you're in a finals position
00:20:36.539 --> 00:20:39.180
or a podium or semifinals and you're trying to
00:20:39.180 --> 00:20:40.839
get your athlete through to the finals and you
00:20:40.839 --> 00:20:42.619
see something that's like, oh, that could definitely
00:20:42.619 --> 00:20:44.700
be taken away from them. I'm not sure that's
00:20:44.700 --> 00:20:47.940
100%. Get a bit competitive then and be like,
00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:49.799
oh, I'm going to go and get this one. And you
00:20:49.799 --> 00:20:53.359
also mentioned that you were like quite a young
00:20:53.359 --> 00:20:57.240
coach, I guess, when you first started. How old
00:20:57.240 --> 00:21:02.000
were you at the time? Oh, my God. Well, for seniors
00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:09.680
anyway, I was 24, I think. Oh, wow. Yeah, that's
00:21:09.680 --> 00:21:11.380
like the same age as a lot of the competitors.
00:21:12.200 --> 00:21:14.839
Yeah, so I was younger than... I think all of
00:21:14.839 --> 00:21:17.640
the athletes on the team were two at the first
00:21:17.640 --> 00:21:20.180
competition that I went to. I think there was
00:21:20.180 --> 00:21:22.460
like, was there 10 athletes? There was maybe
00:21:22.460 --> 00:21:24.059
10 athletes and only two of them were younger
00:21:24.059 --> 00:21:27.180
than me. So that was maybe three, but it was
00:21:27.180 --> 00:21:28.519
a very small number. There was a huge amount
00:21:28.519 --> 00:21:30.299
that were older than me and most of them I'd
00:21:30.299 --> 00:21:34.619
competed with when I was younger and they'd been
00:21:34.619 --> 00:21:36.700
more successful than me because they'd made it
00:21:36.700 --> 00:21:38.900
to seniors and World Cups and I'd dropped out.
00:21:38.980 --> 00:21:41.980
So it was an interesting dynamic to sort of manage
00:21:41.980 --> 00:21:44.660
initially. I guess like how do you command respect
00:21:44.660 --> 00:21:46.680
as a coach when you're coaching people who are
00:21:46.680 --> 00:21:49.420
like older than you or had like better results
00:21:49.420 --> 00:21:52.559
than you? I guess I was not in any way striving
00:21:52.559 --> 00:21:56.480
for respect. I was kind of just, I knew that
00:21:56.480 --> 00:21:59.039
I was never going to be able to come in and be
00:21:59.039 --> 00:22:01.279
this coach where I was like, I know more than
00:22:01.279 --> 00:22:03.019
you, you have to listen to me because I've done
00:22:03.019 --> 00:22:05.700
this for however many years. I didn't have that.
00:22:05.980 --> 00:22:08.759
And I didn't really want to take that angle anyway
00:22:08.759 --> 00:22:11.359
because I wasn't totally sure what I knew at
00:22:11.359 --> 00:22:15.700
that point. had coached a few athletes to a pretty
00:22:15.700 --> 00:22:17.339
high level of youth but I'd never coached an
00:22:17.339 --> 00:22:19.200
athlete to senior so I was never going to come
00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:20.940
in and assume that I knew how to make a world
00:22:20.940 --> 00:22:24.339
cup successful athlete at that point and my main
00:22:24.339 --> 00:22:27.299
aim was just to provide the support of the competitions
00:22:27.299 --> 00:22:29.420
that like their coaches couldn't provide because
00:22:29.420 --> 00:22:32.339
it's very rare that private coaches can go out
00:22:32.339 --> 00:22:34.099
to all of the world cups and attend all of those
00:22:34.099 --> 00:22:36.500
so in my in my head i was just being a team coach
00:22:36.500 --> 00:22:38.680
and supporting and that was slightly different
00:22:38.680 --> 00:22:41.319
i we did some like debriefs at the end of it
00:22:41.319 --> 00:22:42.880
where i would sort of say like hey i spotted
00:22:42.880 --> 00:22:44.299
this when you were climbing you might want to
00:22:44.299 --> 00:22:46.619
try and do this next time what do you think about
00:22:46.619 --> 00:22:48.700
that and so we're like no i'd be like yeah you're
00:22:48.700 --> 00:22:51.920
probably right okay great like i'll stop um but
00:22:51.920 --> 00:22:54.140
that was like the absolute extent of the coaching
00:22:54.140 --> 00:22:56.859
that i was doing for those athletes at the time
00:22:56.859 --> 00:22:58.559
it was only later on that i started actually
00:22:58.559 --> 00:23:01.990
coaching senior athletes and actually moved into
00:23:01.990 --> 00:23:04.309
that space and now I would kind of feed back
00:23:04.309 --> 00:23:07.269
a bit more but even then I don't think I like
00:23:07.269 --> 00:23:10.289
command respect from anybody I think I want them
00:23:10.289 --> 00:23:14.009
to respect my knowledge understanding but if
00:23:14.009 --> 00:23:15.589
somebody doesn't want my opinion I'm never going
00:23:15.589 --> 00:23:18.369
to force it on them because I don't 100 % know
00:23:18.369 --> 00:23:20.410
that I'm right I don't think anybody does know
00:23:20.410 --> 00:23:22.130
100 % that they're right so it's kind of just
00:23:22.130 --> 00:23:24.670
here's some ideas I've had if you're interested
00:23:24.670 --> 00:23:27.829
in them go away and explore them And if you want
00:23:27.829 --> 00:23:30.089
some stuff that I might think will help, then
00:23:30.089 --> 00:23:32.549
come back to me. And if not, then carry on. I
00:23:32.549 --> 00:23:34.569
didn't mean to say like command respect as in
00:23:34.569 --> 00:23:37.789
like you are trying to, I don't know, be like
00:23:37.789 --> 00:23:40.829
an authoritarian figure. But I guess I would
00:23:40.829 --> 00:23:45.029
think that like having a coach and being a coach,
00:23:45.170 --> 00:23:47.930
they would need to like trust you in some way
00:23:47.930 --> 00:23:51.049
to be able to help them improve. Otherwise, it
00:23:51.049 --> 00:23:53.490
just like doesn't really work in that way. Yeah,
00:23:53.490 --> 00:23:57.390
I mean, people. like thinking that I knew what
00:23:57.390 --> 00:24:00.230
I was doing was a challenge or at least it still
00:24:00.230 --> 00:24:03.049
feels like a challenge I think even now like
00:24:03.049 --> 00:24:05.890
I've coached Erin to a pretty high level and
00:24:05.890 --> 00:24:08.549
I don't have a queue of other athletes at the
00:24:08.549 --> 00:24:10.390
door that are like I have to work with you because
00:24:10.390 --> 00:24:14.289
you coach so well um and I definitely have got
00:24:14.289 --> 00:24:18.549
like male colleagues that have done like either
00:24:18.549 --> 00:24:21.400
the same amount or a little bit less or maybe
00:24:21.400 --> 00:24:22.619
they've done a little bit more but then they
00:24:22.619 --> 00:24:23.960
have like this queue of people that are like
00:24:23.960 --> 00:24:25.200
oh I have to work with you I have to work with
00:24:25.200 --> 00:24:27.799
you and there's of course reasons for that of
00:24:27.799 --> 00:24:29.539
like maybe they've got better knowledge or like
00:24:29.539 --> 00:24:31.619
S &C training it's all these things that factor
00:24:31.619 --> 00:24:33.740
into it and I can definitely rationalize those
00:24:33.740 --> 00:24:36.599
but it's hard not sometimes to think like it's
00:24:36.599 --> 00:24:39.640
because I'm younger or female that actually people
00:24:39.640 --> 00:24:43.119
just don't think I know things and still when
00:24:43.119 --> 00:24:44.559
I talk to some people they're like all right
00:24:44.559 --> 00:24:46.940
okay yeah yeah sure like when I say stuff to
00:24:46.940 --> 00:24:49.769
them whereas others are like take it on board
00:24:49.769 --> 00:24:52.630
fully so it's hard to it's hard to make that
00:24:52.630 --> 00:24:54.349
transition into the place that I am now where
00:24:54.349 --> 00:24:56.950
I can give feedback and people don't just roll
00:24:56.950 --> 00:24:58.849
their eyes or don't think anything of it or maybe
00:24:58.849 --> 00:25:01.190
that was internal for me that that was happening
00:25:01.190 --> 00:25:04.390
but it's still like an ongoing struggle and I
00:25:04.390 --> 00:25:06.609
think unless I was distinctly working with a
00:25:06.609 --> 00:25:08.490
group of athletes that were all improving all
00:25:08.490 --> 00:25:10.089
the time and I had all the time to give to them
00:25:10.089 --> 00:25:12.930
I don't think I'll ever get to the point of people
00:25:12.930 --> 00:25:14.730
would just be like yeah she's a coach that can
00:25:14.730 --> 00:25:16.470
coach everyone I think people still have this
00:25:16.470 --> 00:25:18.029
thing of like oh it's worked for one time but
00:25:18.029 --> 00:25:20.130
maybe that's just with that athlete but this
00:25:20.130 --> 00:25:23.170
could all be my insecurities in my head is that
00:25:23.170 --> 00:25:25.329
like something that you would want to prove like
00:25:25.329 --> 00:25:27.650
you would want to coach more individual athletes
00:25:27.650 --> 00:25:29.990
and show that it's something you can do there
00:25:29.990 --> 00:25:32.490
was definitely a point where I wanted that um
00:25:32.490 --> 00:25:36.250
I think before I started working with Erin I
00:25:36.250 --> 00:25:38.450
or maybe even like while I was working with Erin
00:25:38.450 --> 00:25:41.930
um a year ago there was a point of oh i wanted
00:25:41.930 --> 00:25:43.650
like i want to show people that i actually know
00:25:43.650 --> 00:25:45.369
what i'm talking about like i i'm understanding
00:25:45.369 --> 00:25:47.990
everything i'm not just hanging out with her
00:25:47.990 --> 00:25:50.970
on sessions like i am coaching i am like delivering
00:25:50.970 --> 00:25:52.589
part of the training plan i'm feeding back on
00:25:52.589 --> 00:25:54.490
the training plan i'm looking at the snc i'm
00:25:54.490 --> 00:25:56.569
like inputting on the nutrition i'm managing
00:25:56.569 --> 00:25:59.750
everything together like i wanted people to know
00:25:59.750 --> 00:26:02.670
that because i wanted to be like respected as
00:26:02.670 --> 00:26:04.970
one of the top coaches in the world because that's
00:26:04.970 --> 00:26:07.089
kind of like theoretically where i am with the
00:26:07.089 --> 00:26:10.509
results that i've got from the athletes um but
00:26:11.019 --> 00:26:13.660
as the time's gone on I've kind of got more comfortable
00:26:13.660 --> 00:26:16.980
with actually who am I proving that to what am
00:26:16.980 --> 00:26:18.940
I going to gain from it what's the point like
00:26:18.940 --> 00:26:21.940
as long as I know that I'm doing the best that
00:26:21.940 --> 00:26:24.819
I can do and I believe in what I'm delivering
00:26:24.819 --> 00:26:27.400
for the athletes that I can I'm not going to
00:26:27.400 --> 00:26:28.980
chase after other athletes I'm going to make
00:26:28.980 --> 00:26:30.660
myself accessible to all of them and if more
00:26:30.660 --> 00:26:32.339
people want to work with me that's great it would
00:26:32.339 --> 00:26:34.539
definitely fill me with a bit more confidence
00:26:34.539 --> 00:26:37.089
that people wanted that but If I am going to
00:26:37.089 --> 00:26:38.930
spend all my time chasing that and trying to
00:26:38.930 --> 00:26:40.569
prove myself, then I'm not actually going to
00:26:40.569 --> 00:26:42.650
be focusing on the right things. So I've tried
00:26:42.650 --> 00:26:46.009
to like take a step away from that. But there's
00:26:46.009 --> 00:26:48.109
definitely still times where I'm like, why does
00:26:48.109 --> 00:26:50.490
nobody want to work with me? Do you feel like
00:26:50.490 --> 00:26:54.630
at least like other coaches have that respect
00:26:54.630 --> 00:26:57.529
for you? Yeah, I mean, like my colleagues are
00:26:57.529 --> 00:27:00.730
really good. We're all we've been through like
00:27:00.730 --> 00:27:04.519
tough times in. the history of like the GB team
00:27:04.519 --> 00:27:07.680
and like different management and like we've
00:27:07.680 --> 00:27:10.559
like had it where everybody kind of was out to
00:27:10.559 --> 00:27:12.480
get us at times so we've all been really good
00:27:12.480 --> 00:27:14.359
at like building each other up and trying to
00:27:14.359 --> 00:27:17.359
have each other's backs and like me and my colleague
00:27:17.359 --> 00:27:19.099
will always sort of say like hey you did that
00:27:19.099 --> 00:27:21.099
when there's a good result that happened so like
00:27:21.099 --> 00:27:23.160
isn't it amazing that like we've achieved this
00:27:23.160 --> 00:27:25.400
like this is great and other people don't always
00:27:25.400 --> 00:27:26.940
see that they think that we're just like negative
00:27:26.940 --> 00:27:30.559
and like sarcastic all the time because externally
00:27:30.559 --> 00:27:32.279
we are but we do have our moments where we'll
00:27:32.279 --> 00:27:35.000
turn around and be like hey like good work very
00:27:35.000 --> 00:27:36.480
few people in the world have achieved this like
00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:38.240
this is great and we kind of like pick each other
00:27:38.240 --> 00:27:40.680
up so definitely other people have respect but
00:27:40.680 --> 00:27:43.500
it's like how far does that go what are some
00:27:43.500 --> 00:27:46.200
of the difficulties you feel like you faced as
00:27:46.200 --> 00:27:50.140
a female coach um I mean it comes back to that
00:27:50.140 --> 00:27:52.039
sort of respect thing or people thinking that
00:27:52.039 --> 00:27:54.799
I'm as good a coach as my male colleague like
00:27:54.799 --> 00:27:58.339
I've had several interactions where people have
00:27:58.339 --> 00:28:00.410
kind of looked me up and down and sort of gone
00:28:00.410 --> 00:28:02.869
who are you and what are you doing in this space
00:28:02.869 --> 00:28:04.569
and whether that's like an age thing or whether
00:28:04.569 --> 00:28:08.710
it was um being a female I always feel like I've
00:28:08.710 --> 00:28:11.569
kind of been brushed off as not being that involved
00:28:11.569 --> 00:28:14.990
and again there's other factors into people building
00:28:14.990 --> 00:28:19.750
their opinion but I heard recently um to be part
00:28:19.750 --> 00:28:23.410
of like this conference thing somebody questioned
00:28:23.410 --> 00:28:24.970
the fact that there was all male coaches going
00:28:24.970 --> 00:28:27.599
to it and the response that they got is there's
00:28:27.599 --> 00:28:29.980
no female coaches functioning at the level which
00:28:29.980 --> 00:28:33.119
for me was like well it's not just me that's
00:28:33.119 --> 00:28:35.220
coaching at the elite level and climbing there's
00:28:35.220 --> 00:28:37.700
like a lot of us there's a lot of nations that
00:28:37.700 --> 00:28:40.880
are led by impressive female coaches that have
00:28:40.880 --> 00:28:44.079
been leading them for a long time so why does
00:28:44.079 --> 00:28:45.859
somebody think that these men are the only ones
00:28:45.859 --> 00:28:47.500
that are leading it like those men are great
00:28:47.500 --> 00:28:48.960
coaches they are definitely doing impressive
00:28:48.960 --> 00:28:51.380
things they definitely have a lot to say but
00:28:51.380 --> 00:28:53.650
there is also women that are out there and it
00:28:53.650 --> 00:28:55.349
should really be representative because it's
00:28:55.349 --> 00:28:57.109
not just the men in the pit or behind the wall
00:28:57.109 --> 00:29:00.509
but people still seem to think that it is and
00:29:00.509 --> 00:29:03.210
I don't know how you change that perspective
00:29:03.210 --> 00:29:06.769
and now I'm going to it because one of the male
00:29:06.769 --> 00:29:08.450
coaches was having a baby so that's great for
00:29:08.450 --> 00:29:10.630
him but he had to pull out last minute so now
00:29:10.630 --> 00:29:13.650
I'm going to speak at that but initially was
00:29:13.650 --> 00:29:17.089
not counted as one of being the good coaches
00:29:17.089 --> 00:29:19.500
at the time so it's interesting Yeah, that's
00:29:19.500 --> 00:29:24.019
interesting. Because there's also Katarina on
00:29:24.019 --> 00:29:26.960
the Austrian team. Yeah, Katarina. But there's
00:29:26.960 --> 00:29:30.579
so many other female coaches. I mean, for us
00:29:30.579 --> 00:29:33.839
in the UK, the majority of our department is
00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:36.039
female. So I have a female head of performance.
00:29:36.319 --> 00:29:38.160
There's me as a female podium coach. There's
00:29:38.160 --> 00:29:40.400
a female academy coach, and she's the only academy
00:29:40.400 --> 00:29:43.700
coach. In the youth space, the youth team is
00:29:43.700 --> 00:29:46.299
run by women. The talent team is run by women.
00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:51.109
We have a lot. in our yeah in our country so
00:29:51.109 --> 00:29:52.549
we're quite lucky in that sense but there are
00:29:52.549 --> 00:29:55.829
multiple other teams French team have them Belgian
00:29:55.829 --> 00:29:59.250
Austrian Germans lots of other teams work with
00:29:59.250 --> 00:30:00.750
women so I don't know why they thought that there
00:30:00.750 --> 00:30:04.009
was no women coaching at the level yeah I mean
00:30:04.009 --> 00:30:06.210
do you think it's like been harder for women
00:30:06.210 --> 00:30:09.630
to get into coaching or maybe like it's not something
00:30:09.630 --> 00:30:12.130
that they're as interested in pursuing there's
00:30:12.130 --> 00:30:16.089
definitely like a gap in I think in all sports
00:30:16.089 --> 00:30:19.069
not just in climbing for female coaches it's
00:30:19.069 --> 00:30:21.589
it is harder to get in because there's always
00:30:21.589 --> 00:30:24.430
going to be this argument of like men just want
00:30:24.430 --> 00:30:26.150
to work with men they work better with them in
00:30:26.150 --> 00:30:28.490
the same way that maybe female athletes would
00:30:28.490 --> 00:30:31.950
work better with women there's always that argument
00:30:31.950 --> 00:30:34.150
and if you're working towards a higher level
00:30:34.150 --> 00:30:36.809
then the general idea is that the men are better
00:30:36.809 --> 00:30:39.029
at delivering at that level they have a better
00:30:39.029 --> 00:30:42.069
understanding and I think climbing is a bit different
00:30:42.069 --> 00:30:46.349
because to understand how hard somebody else
00:30:46.349 --> 00:30:48.009
climbs just by looking at them that you don't
00:30:48.009 --> 00:30:50.069
need to be able to climb a certain grade to do
00:30:50.069 --> 00:30:52.650
that but I think historically that's kind of
00:30:52.650 --> 00:30:55.170
how it worked like it was historically ex -athletes
00:30:55.170 --> 00:30:58.250
that were coming in to to be the coaches and
00:30:58.250 --> 00:31:01.190
to teach other people and it's only in more recent
00:31:01.190 --> 00:31:04.470
years where it's less ex -athletes coming through
00:31:04.470 --> 00:31:06.730
and like even I'm counted in that but there are
00:31:06.730 --> 00:31:08.630
definitely coaches out there that were never
00:31:08.630 --> 00:31:12.099
an athlete they've just come in as a coach But
00:31:12.099 --> 00:31:14.319
yeah, I think in all sports you have that issue.
00:31:14.559 --> 00:31:17.180
And it tends to be that the women won't get up
00:31:17.180 --> 00:31:20.119
to like academy, like transition spaces. So they
00:31:20.119 --> 00:31:22.240
use the senior space. That's where they'll be
00:31:22.240 --> 00:31:24.420
placed because actually like women tend to be
00:31:24.420 --> 00:31:26.440
better at coaching those age groups because there's
00:31:26.440 --> 00:31:29.500
like puberty, emotions, like hormones everywhere.
00:31:29.660 --> 00:31:31.759
And women tend to be a bit more empathetic. So
00:31:31.759 --> 00:31:33.960
they thrive better in that space. But that then
00:31:33.960 --> 00:31:36.500
means that they're not pushed up into the senior
00:31:36.500 --> 00:31:38.779
space very often. And that's where all the men
00:31:38.779 --> 00:31:42.279
go because that's where they work better. it's
00:31:42.279 --> 00:31:44.660
kind of hard to to fight it but there's definitely
00:31:44.660 --> 00:31:47.220
like imbalances still yeah i guess kind of keeping
00:31:47.220 --> 00:31:50.039
that in mind um one of the questions that came
00:31:50.039 --> 00:31:53.059
in from with flow in mind was what advice would
00:31:53.059 --> 00:31:56.680
you give to aspiring female coaches um and i'm
00:31:56.680 --> 00:31:58.319
thinking just about people who are interested
00:31:58.319 --> 00:32:00.759
in becoming coaches in general especially in
00:32:00.759 --> 00:32:03.640
like the competition space yeah i mean the one
00:32:03.640 --> 00:32:06.619
thing that always stuck with me in terms of like
00:32:06.619 --> 00:32:08.700
being women come into this space is that sort
00:32:08.700 --> 00:32:11.180
of statistic about the fact that women won't
00:32:11.180 --> 00:32:13.740
go for jobs unless they have all of the requirements
00:32:13.740 --> 00:32:15.599
and men will go for a job where they have 50
00:32:15.599 --> 00:32:19.079
% and just having that in the back of your mind
00:32:19.079 --> 00:32:21.200
if you don't think that you are qualified enough
00:32:21.200 --> 00:32:23.880
or that you have enough experience go for it
00:32:23.880 --> 00:32:25.859
anyway and let somebody else decide like put
00:32:25.859 --> 00:32:27.779
yourself out there and give it a go and if somebody
00:32:27.779 --> 00:32:31.640
says that you're not good at it then go and work
00:32:31.640 --> 00:32:34.400
hard and get better at it don't just avoid it
00:32:34.400 --> 00:32:35.660
because you don't think you're capable of it
00:32:35.660 --> 00:32:39.079
I speak to so many female coaches that some of
00:32:39.079 --> 00:32:40.359
them have even said that they're going to walk
00:32:40.359 --> 00:32:42.099
away from their athletes because they don't think
00:32:42.099 --> 00:32:43.740
that they have what it takes to support them
00:32:43.740 --> 00:32:47.200
how do you know until you try like you can work
00:32:47.200 --> 00:32:50.299
with other people I would almost say like encourage
00:32:50.299 --> 00:32:51.960
them to work with other people I've worked with
00:32:51.960 --> 00:32:54.240
other coaches for a lot of my career and that's
00:32:54.240 --> 00:32:56.140
helped me to develop and just sense check my
00:32:56.140 --> 00:32:59.240
work but I've always had the understanding to
00:32:59.240 --> 00:33:00.839
get there because otherwise they would just be
00:33:00.839 --> 00:33:02.380
like dragging me along and that's not the case
00:33:02.380 --> 00:33:07.960
so Try and quieten the voices that say you don't
00:33:07.960 --> 00:33:10.079
have enough experience or enough knowledge. Put
00:33:10.079 --> 00:33:12.240
yourself out there in a way. Ask other people
00:33:12.240 --> 00:33:15.079
to support you in it. But you probably have the
00:33:15.079 --> 00:33:16.539
capabilities. You just need to give it a shot.
00:33:17.000 --> 00:33:19.220
Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. And I guess that
00:33:19.220 --> 00:33:22.980
also kind of tracks with how you grew as a coach.
00:33:23.099 --> 00:33:25.339
Like you kind of filled a different role. Like
00:33:25.339 --> 00:33:27.720
when you were younger and you were coaching,
00:33:27.819 --> 00:33:31.059
you felt like you supported your athletes in
00:33:31.059 --> 00:33:33.180
a different way than the other coaches did. yeah
00:33:33.180 --> 00:33:36.599
it was it was always very relaxed I never did
00:33:36.599 --> 00:33:38.859
I don't know if it's actually really that different
00:33:38.859 --> 00:33:42.240
to what I do now I never did the full like just
00:33:42.240 --> 00:33:45.299
delivering the training plan like quite harsh
00:33:45.299 --> 00:33:47.119
get it get it done I don't think that's the nature
00:33:47.119 --> 00:33:50.079
of climbing anyway but I think I leaning into
00:33:50.079 --> 00:33:53.160
my style is what helped me to develop and grow
00:33:53.160 --> 00:33:55.690
because just almost naturally i've developed
00:33:55.690 --> 00:33:58.250
all the like knowledge i've i've kind of absorbed
00:33:58.250 --> 00:34:01.309
it by going on different courses and shadowing
00:34:01.309 --> 00:34:02.730
different people and working with different coaches
00:34:02.730 --> 00:34:05.130
i've learned from all of their knowledge and
00:34:05.130 --> 00:34:07.789
brought that into my own and if i'd gone straight
00:34:07.789 --> 00:34:09.670
in trying to do what i thought was the right
00:34:09.670 --> 00:34:12.809
way to do it it wouldn't have worked out whereas
00:34:12.809 --> 00:34:14.889
it's gone much better just kind of doing it my
00:34:14.889 --> 00:34:16.829
way figuring it out and adapting as i go and
00:34:16.829 --> 00:34:18.510
it's worked better for some of the athletes as
00:34:18.510 --> 00:34:21.369
well so you never know what's going to be right
00:34:21.369 --> 00:34:24.829
until it's already right yeah and I think now
00:34:24.829 --> 00:34:26.789
might be a good time to get into I guess like
00:34:26.789 --> 00:34:29.389
what coaching actually looks like I think for
00:34:29.389 --> 00:34:31.889
a lot of people it just kind of seems like oh
00:34:31.889 --> 00:34:33.949
you write a training plan maybe you like give
00:34:33.949 --> 00:34:35.889
some feedback on what they're doing on the wall
00:34:35.889 --> 00:34:38.449
but then you had mentioned like with coaching
00:34:38.449 --> 00:34:40.889
Aaron you also do like nutrition plans and like
00:34:40.889 --> 00:34:44.690
emotional support and things like that so what
00:34:44.690 --> 00:34:47.789
else all goes into it yeah I mean when you you
00:34:47.789 --> 00:34:50.820
have athletes like Aaron that are as advanced
00:34:50.820 --> 00:34:53.539
as they are in that sense like they're full -time
00:34:53.539 --> 00:34:56.400
training eight hours a day six days a week there's
00:34:56.400 --> 00:34:59.280
a lot more time to provide all this extra support
00:34:59.280 --> 00:35:02.380
so yes there's the aspects of we're just going
00:35:02.380 --> 00:35:04.400
to the wall maybe I'm belaying maybe I'm setting
00:35:04.400 --> 00:35:06.880
some boulders maybe I'm just there reminding
00:35:06.880 --> 00:35:08.760
her that she's actually capable of climbing when
00:35:08.760 --> 00:35:10.219
she falls off those boulders and thinks that
00:35:10.219 --> 00:35:13.320
she's rubbish like there's that sort of psychological
00:35:13.320 --> 00:35:16.340
support there but I would say that my role at
00:35:16.340 --> 00:35:18.559
least in that setup is sort of oversight of everything
00:35:18.559 --> 00:35:21.579
so I'm technically her team lead, and she has
00:35:21.579 --> 00:35:24.309
a team of coaches. Pardon this brief interruption,
00:35:24.530 --> 00:35:26.449
but if you're interested in ad -free episodes
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where she reveals her favorite World Cup venue
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commenting and sharing helps a great deal as
00:36:00.030 --> 00:36:03.489
well. Back to the show. So for her, coaching
00:36:03.489 --> 00:36:06.429
looks like a variety of different experts all
00:36:06.429 --> 00:36:09.550
leaning into their own areas. So we have a nutritionist
00:36:09.550 --> 00:36:11.409
who's on the job as nutrition. She's very good
00:36:11.409 --> 00:36:14.869
at what she does. She provides a nutrition plan
00:36:14.869 --> 00:36:17.110
and then I just kind of check in and go, hey,
00:36:17.130 --> 00:36:18.929
have you had that snack? Hey, have you done this?
00:36:18.949 --> 00:36:21.789
Hey, have you drank that water? And if it's...
00:36:21.960 --> 00:36:25.099
too much for like aaron to do then we go right
00:36:25.099 --> 00:36:26.900
okay we need to feed this back and we need to
00:36:26.900 --> 00:36:29.099
say that that part of the plan's not working
00:36:29.099 --> 00:36:32.219
we need to adapt it and i try to get aaron to
00:36:32.219 --> 00:36:34.039
do it as much as possible but it's quite stressful
00:36:34.039 --> 00:36:35.380
being an athlete there's quite a lot going on
00:36:35.380 --> 00:36:36.739
so sometimes i'll just be like don't worry i'll
00:36:36.739 --> 00:36:38.500
send the message i'll sorry for you we'll get
00:36:38.500 --> 00:36:41.619
this changed um and we have like physio that
00:36:41.619 --> 00:36:44.400
ideally she doesn't need to see that that often
00:36:44.400 --> 00:36:46.780
but obviously it's their sports masseuse for
00:36:46.780 --> 00:36:49.139
like maintenance there's snc coach there's her
00:36:49.139 --> 00:36:52.699
training plan coach um And then she has like
00:36:52.699 --> 00:36:54.739
a mindset coach as well as like some psych support.
00:36:54.920 --> 00:36:58.539
So she has like a whole team and as well as her
00:36:58.539 --> 00:37:00.699
family and her partner and everybody that she's
00:37:00.699 --> 00:37:02.679
got around her like externally is wider support.
00:37:02.800 --> 00:37:04.980
She's got like a whole team of different people
00:37:04.980 --> 00:37:07.780
that we all focus on the bits that we're best
00:37:07.780 --> 00:37:10.699
at. And there's obviously overlapping communication
00:37:10.699 --> 00:37:12.800
between everybody to kind of check in and go,
00:37:12.880 --> 00:37:15.380
does the S &C line up with the training, line
00:37:15.380 --> 00:37:17.199
up with the nutrition, line up with the resting?
00:37:17.460 --> 00:37:20.179
Is the massage at the right time? Is she in a
00:37:20.179 --> 00:37:22.000
good place psychologically? There's all of these
00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:25.500
considerations all the time, which she has to
00:37:25.500 --> 00:37:28.139
deal with. But ideally, we're trying to preempt
00:37:28.139 --> 00:37:30.559
and make sure that it's as easy for her as possible.
00:37:30.639 --> 00:37:32.059
She just has to show up and climb and leave.
00:37:32.500 --> 00:37:36.420
But yeah, I kind of oversee everything. I would
00:37:36.420 --> 00:37:38.559
say chat to her the most, feedback to everybody
00:37:38.559 --> 00:37:40.800
else, arrange team meetings to check in. So it's
00:37:40.800 --> 00:37:44.219
a whole, it's a bit more like manager -y than
00:37:44.219 --> 00:37:47.019
coach at times. Jeez, I did not realize that
00:37:47.019 --> 00:37:49.619
there was this whole team like going into this.
00:37:49.739 --> 00:37:53.059
That's kind of crazy. And I really wish that
00:37:53.059 --> 00:37:57.780
I had that. Yeah, I mean, it's grown a lot. So
00:37:57.780 --> 00:38:02.440
like even this time last year, we had two or
00:38:02.440 --> 00:38:05.320
three less people, I think. There was... initially
00:38:05.320 --> 00:38:09.099
it was just Erin her training plan coach that
00:38:09.099 --> 00:38:11.300
did her robot plan which was lattice and then
00:38:11.300 --> 00:38:14.559
I did some one -to -ones and then after like
00:38:14.559 --> 00:38:16.780
2023 she had a really tough season she felt really
00:38:16.780 --> 00:38:19.280
tired she wasn't happy with things we kind of
00:38:19.280 --> 00:38:21.920
completely mixed it up and did something new
00:38:21.920 --> 00:38:24.300
by at the time just bringing in an S &C coach
00:38:24.300 --> 00:38:26.960
and bringing in me more regularly and then that
00:38:26.960 --> 00:38:28.820
grow into okay we'll bring a nutritionist in
00:38:28.820 --> 00:38:30.619
we'll bring a psych in okay we'll bring physio
00:38:30.619 --> 00:38:32.300
in and then it's just kind of like grown and
00:38:32.300 --> 00:38:35.559
grown and it's just kind of you don't want to
00:38:35.559 --> 00:38:39.159
miss anything you don't want to like risk not
00:38:39.159 --> 00:38:41.380
trying to do something and all of them factor
00:38:41.380 --> 00:38:43.159
in together like if you train too hard and you
00:38:43.159 --> 00:38:45.480
don't feel enough then you're going to get injured
00:38:45.480 --> 00:38:47.099
if you train too hard and you don't get the recovery
00:38:47.099 --> 00:38:49.000
mass you're going to get injured if you don't
00:38:49.000 --> 00:38:51.099
train hard enough because snc is not there to
00:38:51.099 --> 00:38:53.260
do these extra little bits that you could do
00:38:53.260 --> 00:38:55.340
when your skin's too thin then you're not going
00:38:55.340 --> 00:38:58.039
to be as strong as possible so it's trying to
00:38:58.039 --> 00:38:59.920
like consider every possibility and make sure
00:38:59.920 --> 00:39:02.199
that we address it do you still do like the one
00:39:02.199 --> 00:39:05.719
-on -ones yeah so i see our own like um sometimes
00:39:05.719 --> 00:39:08.719
like three times a week um it's kind of the same
00:39:08.719 --> 00:39:11.460
offer that's like my gb role so like any athlete
00:39:11.460 --> 00:39:15.380
that's on the the program and is like one of
00:39:15.380 --> 00:39:17.260
the funded athletes then they can technically
00:39:17.260 --> 00:39:19.000
like come to us and get as much coaching time
00:39:19.000 --> 00:39:21.139
as they as we can fit in a week so it's generally
00:39:21.139 --> 00:39:24.780
like three days um but i was in in sprinkler
00:39:24.780 --> 00:39:27.519
for 10 days at the start of the year and then
00:39:27.519 --> 00:39:29.039
we have like a training camp with a bunch of
00:39:29.039 --> 00:39:31.760
the athletes coming at the end of um january
00:39:31.760 --> 00:39:34.059
so There's quite a lot of contact time because
00:39:34.059 --> 00:39:36.119
like when we're in comp season, I obviously see
00:39:36.119 --> 00:39:37.900
them every day and there's a lot of feedback
00:39:37.900 --> 00:39:39.980
loop there. But yeah, generally with Aaron, it's
00:39:39.980 --> 00:39:42.059
like three days a week at least. Yeah, what are
00:39:42.059 --> 00:39:44.199
the one -on -one sessions kind of look like?
00:39:44.280 --> 00:39:46.219
Not necessarily just for Aaron, but for like
00:39:46.219 --> 00:39:49.079
anyone else on the GB team. I mean, it kind of
00:39:49.079 --> 00:39:50.800
varies depending on what they're doing. So sometimes
00:39:50.800 --> 00:39:54.699
it's just pointing circuits and kind of... like
00:39:54.699 --> 00:39:56.579
cheering them on to try harder telling them to
00:39:56.579 --> 00:39:59.360
rest that sort of thing sometimes it's like making
00:39:59.360 --> 00:40:01.480
up cool boulders and like funky moves to try
00:40:01.480 --> 00:40:03.239
and challenge them if we've not got the setting
00:40:03.239 --> 00:40:06.460
in the wall sometimes it's like facilitating
00:40:06.460 --> 00:40:09.360
a comp sim for them or like doing feedback on
00:40:09.360 --> 00:40:14.159
preset boulder sort of thing um and i guess like
00:40:14.159 --> 00:40:18.280
some days are just belaying non -stop just constantly
00:40:18.280 --> 00:40:20.280
my end of a rope like okay this one next okay
00:40:20.280 --> 00:40:22.360
this one next okay this one next and those ones
00:40:22.360 --> 00:40:24.679
are maybe the more tiring ones but necessary
00:40:24.679 --> 00:40:27.739
obviously interesting to know um yeah i guess
00:40:27.739 --> 00:40:30.679
in general in terms of like uh team gb training
00:40:30.679 --> 00:40:33.559
what's what are your thoughts for like split
00:40:33.559 --> 00:40:36.980
of strength training versus on the wall training
00:40:36.980 --> 00:40:40.000
versus board climbing or whatever other training
00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:42.940
methods there are out there i guess it's so different
00:40:42.940 --> 00:40:46.670
for everybody but generally i think the most
00:40:46.670 --> 00:40:49.730
important thing is kind of keeping track of what
00:40:49.730 --> 00:40:52.429
they need like if if somebody's naturally quite
00:40:52.429 --> 00:40:55.429
strong probably less strength training either
00:40:55.429 --> 00:40:57.349
make it your super strength and lean into it
00:40:57.349 --> 00:41:00.090
do the do the board sessions whatever or focus
00:41:00.090 --> 00:41:01.670
on the technical stuff and drop it back a bit
00:41:01.670 --> 00:41:05.210
um but then it can be like a huge psychological
00:41:05.210 --> 00:41:08.119
impact on that so if somebody mentally struggles
00:41:08.119 --> 00:41:10.760
with all the technical stuff the failing of going
00:41:10.760 --> 00:41:12.659
and doing the technical side of things then they
00:41:12.659 --> 00:41:14.219
probably need a board session to go and feel
00:41:14.219 --> 00:41:16.599
good or they probably need to get in the gym
00:41:16.599 --> 00:41:18.519
and just straight forward pick up some weights
00:41:18.519 --> 00:41:20.059
you can't get it wrong you can either pick them
00:41:20.059 --> 00:41:21.400
up or you can't pick them up it's nice and simple
00:41:21.400 --> 00:41:23.940
so you might need to do that equally you might
00:41:23.940 --> 00:41:26.920
have an athlete that's really technically talented
00:41:26.920 --> 00:41:30.679
and you want to get there stronger trying to
00:41:30.679 --> 00:41:32.480
get the balance of them getting stronger without
00:41:32.480 --> 00:41:35.309
losing the natural talent and technique is quite
00:41:35.309 --> 00:41:37.150
hard so you probably have to make sure that there's
00:41:37.150 --> 00:41:40.809
like at least one or two sessions probably like
00:41:40.809 --> 00:41:44.170
three or four sessions a week that at least start
00:41:44.170 --> 00:41:46.750
with a fully technical execution thing then playing
00:41:46.750 --> 00:41:51.010
around really free flow like just having a go
00:41:51.010 --> 00:41:53.030
at some moves and seeing what they can do and
00:41:53.030 --> 00:41:55.570
then only the rest of the time like maybe the
00:41:55.570 --> 00:41:57.849
other two or three sessions maybe like mixing
00:41:57.849 --> 00:41:59.449
it in so you've got a bit of both ideally you
00:41:59.449 --> 00:42:01.929
want to be hammering that sort of like physical
00:42:01.929 --> 00:42:04.170
side of things and It obviously changes as you
00:42:04.170 --> 00:42:05.489
go through the year as well. There's so many
00:42:05.489 --> 00:42:07.829
considerations. At the start of off -season,
00:42:08.030 --> 00:42:10.949
so November, December, January, you might want
00:42:10.949 --> 00:42:14.730
to do a huge gym block and just get bulky, get
00:42:14.730 --> 00:42:18.309
strong, get that base muscle there so that you
00:42:18.309 --> 00:42:20.510
can then transfer it by getting onto the wall
00:42:20.510 --> 00:42:22.590
and doing the really focused stuff later because
00:42:22.590 --> 00:42:25.090
it's so much easier and simpler. You're less
00:42:25.090 --> 00:42:26.670
likely to get injured. You can really build a
00:42:26.670 --> 00:42:29.030
base in all these areas and then you can transform
00:42:29.030 --> 00:42:32.500
it. But some people really... they don't like
00:42:32.500 --> 00:42:34.019
that they don't respond to that it stresses them
00:42:34.019 --> 00:42:37.079
out so it's hard because you have to like adapt
00:42:37.079 --> 00:42:40.320
it to to every athlete and some some rules stick
00:42:40.320 --> 00:42:42.780
of like obviously don't do too much but some
00:42:42.780 --> 00:42:44.880
of them you have to really adapt to with where
00:42:44.880 --> 00:42:48.539
they're at would you say that it's better to
00:42:48.539 --> 00:42:51.980
kind of like lean into a strength or for comps
00:42:51.980 --> 00:42:53.980
is it better to try to be like an all -rounder
00:42:53.980 --> 00:42:56.400
i mean if you're being objective of a competition
00:42:56.400 --> 00:42:58.699
athlete you should probably be an all -rounder
00:42:58.699 --> 00:43:01.300
like you're You can probably get through rounds
00:43:01.300 --> 00:43:03.659
having strengths, but if you want to win, if
00:43:03.659 --> 00:43:05.780
you want to get a medal, you need to be prepared
00:43:05.780 --> 00:43:08.699
for whatever is going to be on the wall. And
00:43:08.699 --> 00:43:11.780
some people's strengths, like you see some French
00:43:11.780 --> 00:43:13.360
athletes who are amazing at coordination and
00:43:13.360 --> 00:43:16.179
then you get some competitions where it's really
00:43:16.179 --> 00:43:17.920
coordination heavy, it fares really well for
00:43:17.920 --> 00:43:20.480
them. They're also pretty strong as well. They're
00:43:20.480 --> 00:43:23.980
also really good at slabs. But they'll have some
00:43:23.980 --> 00:43:26.320
comps where it is slightly easier for them because
00:43:26.320 --> 00:43:28.579
it's their style, whereas... you might have some
00:43:28.579 --> 00:43:30.579
comps that are really physical or like really
00:43:30.579 --> 00:43:33.260
grovelly and if you're only good at coordination
00:43:33.260 --> 00:43:35.039
then you're not going to get anywhere in that
00:43:35.039 --> 00:43:37.199
comp so it's kind of what are you aiming for
00:43:37.199 --> 00:43:39.619
you're aiming for one one -off performance where
00:43:39.619 --> 00:43:41.380
you might have your day and it's your boulders
00:43:41.380 --> 00:43:43.800
and it goes well okay great probably lean into
00:43:43.800 --> 00:43:46.320
your strengths then but if you want to be a successful
00:43:46.320 --> 00:43:49.139
comp athlete over a long period of time you need
00:43:49.139 --> 00:43:51.719
to be good at every style basically yeah when
00:43:51.719 --> 00:43:54.679
i think to like erin it's like hard for me to
00:43:55.150 --> 00:43:58.230
put a finger on like what her strengths and weaknesses
00:43:58.230 --> 00:44:00.469
would be it's like kind of just an all -rounder
00:44:00.469 --> 00:44:03.969
yeah i mean she she's pretty good at doing everything
00:44:03.969 --> 00:44:06.130
she definitely has weaknesses because we definitely
00:44:06.130 --> 00:44:09.329
have stuff that we work on but people get really
00:44:09.329 --> 00:44:11.230
confused by her like people have said that she's
00:44:11.230 --> 00:44:13.309
not very technical she's not good in the slab
00:44:13.309 --> 00:44:16.090
but then her stats from the season actually have
00:44:16.090 --> 00:44:20.090
really high slab performances um and it's really
00:44:20.090 --> 00:44:22.070
neat she's actually did really bad at like no
00:44:22.070 --> 00:44:25.840
thumbs squeezing okay like it's a wide that basically
00:44:25.840 --> 00:44:29.139
world champs qualifier exposed her massively
00:44:29.139 --> 00:44:32.159
she like qualified really low because the third
00:44:32.159 --> 00:44:34.900
boulder was a straightforward like flat squeeze
00:44:34.900 --> 00:44:38.219
boulder and that's somehow still a weakness we
00:44:38.219 --> 00:44:39.780
work on every year but i think she just like
00:44:39.780 --> 00:44:42.940
struggles on it um but that's really quite rare
00:44:42.940 --> 00:44:44.519
so it doesn't come up that much so it's generally
00:44:44.519 --> 00:44:47.659
it's hard because you have to like push up the
00:44:47.659 --> 00:44:50.079
whole level you can't just like okay you're really
00:44:50.079 --> 00:44:51.559
strong so we need to get your slabs up it's like
00:44:51.559 --> 00:44:54.199
okay everything's pretty good but if you want
00:44:54.199 --> 00:44:56.159
to like keep winning then we need to like push
00:44:56.159 --> 00:45:00.579
up everything so yeah it's uh it's hard to get
00:45:00.579 --> 00:45:02.199
it all up there and be like okay there's one
00:45:02.199 --> 00:45:04.400
weakness that comes up every three comps or even
00:45:04.400 --> 00:45:05.840
every six comps we gotta make sure that this
00:45:05.840 --> 00:45:08.420
is coming up as well yeah that's super specific
00:45:08.420 --> 00:45:10.940
i mean did you just like set a bunch of boulders
00:45:10.940 --> 00:45:14.619
with like no thumb squeezing i mean we tried
00:45:14.619 --> 00:45:18.019
we don't we don't really have much like free
00:45:18.019 --> 00:45:20.039
reign on setting in the uk we kind of have to
00:45:20.039 --> 00:45:22.340
work on commercial gyms quite a lot so it's a
00:45:22.340 --> 00:45:25.559
lot of work on spray walls and i kind of went
00:45:25.559 --> 00:45:27.980
to her snc coach and was like what do you think
00:45:27.980 --> 00:45:30.360
we could do with this and they were a bit like
00:45:30.360 --> 00:45:31.800
there's not really exercises that train that
00:45:31.800 --> 00:45:34.260
i'm like yeah but can we can we come up with
00:45:34.260 --> 00:45:36.639
some and now she has these like bizarre exercises
00:45:36.639 --> 00:45:38.519
even when she's doing them she's like i'm not
00:45:38.519 --> 00:45:41.420
really sure what this is for but then afterwards
00:45:41.420 --> 00:45:44.469
she's fully like oh yeah no all of the muscles
00:45:44.469 --> 00:45:46.070
that hurt from compression are hurting right
00:45:46.070 --> 00:45:48.449
now so i'm kind of like well done tom like you've
00:45:48.449 --> 00:45:51.690
done a good job right good to hear um do you
00:45:51.690 --> 00:45:54.090
think there's anything that's like the most underrated
00:45:54.090 --> 00:45:57.030
training technique for climbing it's so hard
00:45:57.030 --> 00:45:59.849
because like every nation does it differently
00:45:59.849 --> 00:46:03.590
and i think like a general rule is just going
00:46:03.590 --> 00:46:07.190
to do more boulders or more routes like more
00:46:07.190 --> 00:46:10.090
time on task is always gonna do better but i
00:46:10.090 --> 00:46:12.670
guess like the quality of the time is is key
00:46:12.670 --> 00:46:16.369
as well um i think board climbing really benefits
00:46:16.369 --> 00:46:18.210
us a lot like the fact that our guys can get
00:46:18.210 --> 00:46:19.949
on a woody board and just go and grind out and
00:46:19.949 --> 00:46:21.969
like do their strength training and get that
00:46:21.969 --> 00:46:24.730
done um and they're pretty open to snc as well
00:46:24.730 --> 00:46:27.489
so like that base building stuff like we're a
00:46:27.489 --> 00:46:30.829
pretty strong nation now um in that sense like
00:46:30.829 --> 00:46:33.130
physically so i think that's one thing that that
00:46:33.130 --> 00:46:36.090
helps us but equally like some of our guys fingerboard
00:46:36.090 --> 00:46:38.889
some of them don't it's hard to tell if that
00:46:38.889 --> 00:46:42.590
helps like some of them spend more time on set
00:46:42.590 --> 00:46:44.409
boulders than they do on spray wall and that
00:46:44.409 --> 00:46:48.170
benefits them so I think until we're like much
00:46:48.170 --> 00:46:50.809
further on as a whole sport with a lot more like
00:46:50.809 --> 00:46:53.110
studies behind things it's so hard to say like
00:46:53.110 --> 00:46:55.309
yeah this thing will make you really really good
00:46:55.309 --> 00:46:57.789
because each athlete is like totally different
00:46:57.789 --> 00:46:59.630
like some of them can do one armors some of them
00:46:59.630 --> 00:47:02.329
can have a one arm edge like some of them can't
00:47:02.329 --> 00:47:04.110
do it at all and yet they're still they're crushing
00:47:04.110 --> 00:47:07.039
it so Yeah, I guess that's true. Is there anything
00:47:07.039 --> 00:47:10.420
that you feel like is an overrated training technique
00:47:10.420 --> 00:47:16.300
then? I mean, if it makes the athlete feel good,
00:47:16.420 --> 00:47:19.699
then it can't be overrated. If an athlete's doing
00:47:19.699 --> 00:47:22.079
something and a coach turns around and says,
00:47:22.199 --> 00:47:23.960
that's not giving you anything, but the athlete
00:47:23.960 --> 00:47:27.219
believes that it's doing something, then it's
00:47:27.219 --> 00:47:30.059
probably doing something. It may be... could
00:47:30.059 --> 00:47:32.000
be slightly better time -wise it could be better
00:47:32.000 --> 00:47:33.360
to use the time but there's always that thing
00:47:33.360 --> 00:47:36.000
of like placebo effects of as long as there's
00:47:36.000 --> 00:47:38.519
belief in the program and you're seeing some
00:47:38.519 --> 00:47:40.000
improvements that it's got to be doing something
00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:42.059
if you're hammering an exercise for six weeks
00:47:42.059 --> 00:47:43.900
and nothing's getting better then you should
00:47:43.900 --> 00:47:45.159
probably change it but i don't think there's
00:47:45.159 --> 00:47:49.920
anything like nothing stands out like maybe old
00:47:49.920 --> 00:47:52.860
-fashioned campus boarding that's maybe not as
00:47:52.860 --> 00:47:58.539
useful There was a drip. Sorry. That's overrated.
00:47:58.780 --> 00:48:01.099
No, no, no. I think it's more like what does
00:48:01.099 --> 00:48:04.920
it bring at this point for comp climbing? If
00:48:04.920 --> 00:48:07.980
you can get on a spray wall on campus, then better
00:48:07.980 --> 00:48:10.639
grip type, better movement, like you're getting
00:48:10.639 --> 00:48:13.380
a full range. It's more appropriate than doing
00:48:13.380 --> 00:48:16.159
straightforward campus boarding. But if you want
00:48:16.159 --> 00:48:18.679
to just improve like fire and a range that's
00:48:18.679 --> 00:48:21.539
like that set, then it's useful. So it's what
00:48:21.539 --> 00:48:25.239
does that individual need to work on? And I don't
00:48:25.239 --> 00:48:28.239
think anything would be potentially too overhyped.
00:48:28.300 --> 00:48:30.219
There's always going to be hype exercises. There's
00:48:30.219 --> 00:48:35.420
the cuffs, the cuff blood circulation. They're
00:48:35.420 --> 00:48:38.579
really hype for a bit, but there's always going
00:48:38.579 --> 00:48:39.940
to be little things like that. But I actually
00:48:39.940 --> 00:48:43.119
don't think that many of the athletes at our
00:48:43.119 --> 00:48:44.619
level or the coaches at our level are actually
00:48:44.619 --> 00:48:47.320
getting too caught up in them. But I'm sure other
00:48:47.320 --> 00:48:49.900
people would think of things. Are people using
00:48:49.900 --> 00:48:53.599
the blood circulation cuffs for climbing? there
00:48:53.599 --> 00:48:57.659
was a stage in at least in Sheffield when I first
00:48:57.659 --> 00:49:00.199
moved down here it was maybe like in 2018 or
00:49:00.199 --> 00:49:02.940
2019 where I went into the wall and there was
00:49:02.940 --> 00:49:05.280
like three people that were doing like pickups
00:49:05.280 --> 00:49:07.860
and they were doing like seven on three off pickups
00:49:07.860 --> 00:49:11.800
with the cuffs and they were like I swear by
00:49:11.800 --> 00:49:14.340
it it's incredible my recovery my capacity has
00:49:14.340 --> 00:49:16.860
gone up so much or it was probably just the fact
00:49:16.860 --> 00:49:18.559
that they were doing seven on three off for the
00:49:18.559 --> 00:49:20.639
first time in ages but They were like swearing
00:49:20.639 --> 00:49:22.059
by it. And I'm sure there was like studies that
00:49:22.059 --> 00:49:24.679
didn't back up, but that was like a hype phase
00:49:24.679 --> 00:49:27.900
for sure. Huh. Okay. Interesting. I'm just, I'm
00:49:27.900 --> 00:49:30.199
also thinking about the old fashioned campus
00:49:30.199 --> 00:49:32.119
boarding. I feel like I do a lot of that. So
00:49:32.119 --> 00:49:34.019
maybe I need to, maybe I need to switch that
00:49:34.019 --> 00:49:35.900
up. I mean, it's great for cover. If you can
00:49:35.900 --> 00:49:39.639
like actually go in campus boulders, then it's
00:49:39.639 --> 00:49:41.539
like the first stepping stone to go in campus
00:49:41.539 --> 00:49:46.139
boulders. But then if you want to do wider moves
00:49:46.139 --> 00:49:49.250
or vary the hole type. then you could just get
00:49:49.250 --> 00:49:50.849
on boulders but then it's so hard because like
00:49:50.849 --> 00:49:52.869
how many walls actually have the perfect angle
00:49:52.869 --> 00:49:55.170
to campus on that also have appropriate boulders
00:49:55.170 --> 00:49:59.110
set on it like it's a tool for making the most
00:49:59.110 --> 00:50:01.550
of a situation it's not a tool that you should
00:50:01.550 --> 00:50:04.250
spend all your time on that's the main thing
00:50:04.250 --> 00:50:06.510
well i also like just kind of feel like a douche
00:50:06.510 --> 00:50:09.429
if i go into the gym and like campus boulders
00:50:09.429 --> 00:50:11.409
there's also that you could go in campus like
00:50:11.409 --> 00:50:12.969
a project that someone's on and then they'll
00:50:12.969 --> 00:50:17.449
never like how your ego will cope with that situation.
00:50:18.010 --> 00:50:20.409
Yeah, but it's very well makes sense. What are
00:50:20.409 --> 00:50:25.389
your own climbing goals? So I've bouldered 8a
00:50:25.389 --> 00:50:29.829
before and loosely have that goal again. I would
00:50:29.829 --> 00:50:34.110
like to at least get close to that. I feel like
00:50:34.110 --> 00:50:36.530
I'm close every year, but I am slowly coming
00:50:36.530 --> 00:50:38.449
around to the fact that my training is super
00:50:38.449 --> 00:50:42.079
inconsistent mid -season. The last two years
00:50:42.079 --> 00:50:44.480
I've had finger injuries either just before the
00:50:44.480 --> 00:50:46.460
season or just after the season because of the
00:50:46.460 --> 00:50:50.840
inconsistency. And I can still fairly regularly
00:50:50.840 --> 00:50:54.980
boulder 70, 70 plus. So like my main aim right
00:50:54.980 --> 00:50:57.619
now is just maintaining that. But like maybe
00:50:57.619 --> 00:50:59.900
a little bit of me is pushing to try and find
00:50:59.900 --> 00:51:02.579
an 80 that I can like have a good go at. Something
00:51:02.579 --> 00:51:04.639
that's at least close to try and train for. But
00:51:04.639 --> 00:51:06.599
I think I have to like reality check myself.
00:51:06.739 --> 00:51:08.219
I'm like, okay, well, I don't really have time
00:51:08.219 --> 00:51:09.880
to train. I'm not going to be disappointed if
00:51:09.880 --> 00:51:12.199
I... keep pushing for this and it's never going
00:51:12.199 --> 00:51:15.219
to be a reality so it's kind of maintaining i've
00:51:15.219 --> 00:51:16.780
actually just like got into running as something
00:51:16.780 --> 00:51:18.400
that's not climbing that i can do when i'm at
00:51:18.400 --> 00:51:21.099
the comps and try and push on that instead do
00:51:21.099 --> 00:51:24.260
you have any interest in like the dynamic indoor
00:51:24.260 --> 00:51:26.800
style of setting these days or is that not for
00:51:26.800 --> 00:51:30.619
you i actually like i really enjoy them um i
00:51:30.619 --> 00:51:33.500
sucked at them when i was competing and i still
00:51:33.500 --> 00:51:35.480
so very much suck at them now but when they have
00:51:35.480 --> 00:51:37.659
like the nice easy versions that they set for
00:51:37.659 --> 00:51:40.809
the customers i love those favorite um because
00:51:40.809 --> 00:51:42.349
it's always like i find it really interesting
00:51:42.349 --> 00:51:45.070
those movements like biomechanics the way that
00:51:45.070 --> 00:51:46.869
the like physics of the movements work the way
00:51:46.869 --> 00:51:49.230
that you generate all that stuff i find really
00:51:49.230 --> 00:51:52.570
interesting to coach and it's one of the things
00:51:52.570 --> 00:51:54.570
i kind of lean into so i always find it interesting
00:51:54.570 --> 00:51:56.610
when i look at a boulder and i'm like cool i
00:51:56.610 --> 00:51:58.670
understand what i need to do on this and then
00:51:58.670 --> 00:52:00.949
my body just completely fails to do it and i
00:52:00.949 --> 00:52:02.989
have to go right let me just take a step back
00:52:02.989 --> 00:52:05.289
and like build up to it but it always just feels
00:52:05.289 --> 00:52:07.250
so satisfying when you do like a cool coordination
00:52:07.250 --> 00:52:09.670
move people that say they don't like them just
00:52:09.670 --> 00:52:11.130
aren't very good at them and are too scared to
00:52:11.130 --> 00:52:13.309
try them and I definitely sometimes are too scared
00:52:13.309 --> 00:52:15.429
to try them but when I when I get on a good one
00:52:15.429 --> 00:52:17.429
and I manage to do like the easy ones I'm like
00:52:17.429 --> 00:52:19.690
yeah sick that was cool. Do you feel like you
00:52:19.690 --> 00:52:23.369
have a better understanding of how to do that
00:52:23.369 --> 00:52:25.469
kind of movement compared to your athletes or
00:52:25.469 --> 00:52:29.170
do you think that the athletes would have a better
00:52:29.170 --> 00:52:31.789
understanding of it compared to you? I would
00:52:31.789 --> 00:52:35.230
say that they have a better understanding but
00:52:35.230 --> 00:52:38.329
I also think that my understanding is quite hi
00:52:38.329 --> 00:52:41.510
we've had this debate actually I pissed a lot
00:52:41.510 --> 00:52:45.570
of people off in a warm up because it was like
00:52:45.570 --> 00:52:48.329
this theory of like if you were to put my brain
00:52:48.329 --> 00:52:52.710
into an athlete's body would I be able to do
00:52:52.710 --> 00:52:54.409
the moves and do the boulders and I was like
00:52:54.409 --> 00:52:58.309
oh well yeah I think because like I'm not just
00:52:58.309 --> 00:53:00.869
like looking at people doing the moves like I
00:53:00.869 --> 00:53:03.650
said I am trying to do these moves and I'm it
00:53:03.650 --> 00:53:06.849
would take me longer but I would in theory be
00:53:06.849 --> 00:53:08.929
able to use their muscles and understandings
00:53:08.929 --> 00:53:10.610
and stuff that way and it piss people off and
00:53:10.610 --> 00:53:12.369
so sometimes I'm like was that right was that
00:53:12.369 --> 00:53:14.110
not right but I kind of stuck by it like no I've
00:53:14.110 --> 00:53:15.429
been doing this for a long time like I've watched
00:53:15.429 --> 00:53:17.650
a lot of world cups I've been on the mats and
00:53:17.650 --> 00:53:19.389
I've not just seen that one athlete do the movement
00:53:19.389 --> 00:53:21.829
I've seen all of the athletes and the first 20
00:53:21.829 --> 00:53:25.030
people come and do this movement so like I understand
00:53:25.030 --> 00:53:28.449
the differences and like I have to to be able
00:53:28.449 --> 00:53:30.909
to teach those athletes how to do those things
00:53:30.909 --> 00:53:32.570
so I have to have some sort of understanding
00:53:32.570 --> 00:53:36.369
but I don't think that I have more than them
00:53:36.369 --> 00:53:37.909
because definitely they rock up and sometimes
00:53:37.909 --> 00:53:39.489
she's doing it like oh okay i don't think you
00:53:39.489 --> 00:53:42.449
would do it that way so true yeah there's gotta
00:53:42.449 --> 00:53:43.969
be something that they've got over me otherwise
00:53:43.969 --> 00:53:46.650
surely if i just trained hard enough i'd be on
00:53:46.650 --> 00:53:49.750
the mats too yeah yeah yeah i think seeing like
00:53:49.750 --> 00:53:51.969
a bunch of people on the mats doing a bunch of
00:53:51.969 --> 00:53:53.590
different ways and then seeing what actually
00:53:53.590 --> 00:53:55.489
ended up working that probably helps a bunch
00:53:55.489 --> 00:53:59.190
so in terms of i guess like what's next for you
00:53:59.190 --> 00:54:02.030
i mean you're still a super young coach you've
00:54:02.030 --> 00:54:04.769
already coached at the olympics Like, what do
00:54:04.769 --> 00:54:07.349
you imagine would even be next? Like, is there
00:54:07.349 --> 00:54:11.230
any higher achievement than that? Yeah, I mean,
00:54:11.269 --> 00:54:14.789
I mean, I guess I could just go like, oh, sweet,
00:54:14.849 --> 00:54:16.949
I've done it. Ticked it. Coached an athlete to
00:54:16.949 --> 00:54:19.329
a gold medal, won the overall, coached at the
00:54:19.329 --> 00:54:22.829
Olympics. But I think the way that I've done
00:54:22.829 --> 00:54:25.110
those things, like, could always have been better.
00:54:25.329 --> 00:54:29.289
So my aim is to sort of continually develop what
00:54:29.289 --> 00:54:32.449
I do. So I want to go to the Olympics and...
00:54:33.009 --> 00:54:36.989
be like a head coach eventually um i want to
00:54:36.989 --> 00:54:38.489
see how many olympics i can get to because i
00:54:38.489 --> 00:54:40.030
always find it really cool when i speak to like
00:54:40.030 --> 00:54:41.550
other coaches in the uk and they're like yeah
00:54:41.550 --> 00:54:43.769
i've done 10 games and i'm just like wow true
00:54:43.769 --> 00:54:46.670
many um i'm not sure i want to do that many but
00:54:46.670 --> 00:54:49.250
i would like to do more than just the one especially
00:54:49.250 --> 00:54:51.869
because like the one for me i was like the last
00:54:51.869 --> 00:54:54.469
coach to go in i was kind of like it was like
00:54:54.469 --> 00:54:57.070
three four weeks five weeks before that i got
00:54:57.070 --> 00:55:01.070
told um oh wow whirlwinds and it was cool that
00:55:01.070 --> 00:55:03.079
i was there but there was just like a kind of
00:55:03.079 --> 00:55:05.019
bitter taste to it of like oh well I wasn't the
00:55:05.019 --> 00:55:07.500
first pick or whatever so I'd like to be just
00:55:07.500 --> 00:55:09.780
one of the Olympic coaches that's going out and
00:55:09.780 --> 00:55:12.420
that's what you do and have supported the athletes
00:55:12.420 --> 00:55:14.639
to that point and not just kind of like swooping
00:55:14.639 --> 00:55:17.460
in maybe like not having supported them as much
00:55:17.460 --> 00:55:18.920
as I could have even though I feel like I supported
00:55:18.920 --> 00:55:22.980
a lot of the last guys a lot but yeah I'd just
00:55:22.980 --> 00:55:24.940
like to do it again and like do it really well
00:55:24.940 --> 00:55:29.599
and eventually like be a head coach for GB and
00:55:29.599 --> 00:55:33.210
kind of like I'm okay not doing the hands -on
00:55:33.210 --> 00:55:34.829
coaching stuff that much I'm definitely better
00:55:34.829 --> 00:55:40.329
at like leadership and and management and admin
00:55:40.329 --> 00:55:43.730
I can do all the admin stuff which some other
00:55:43.730 --> 00:55:45.449
people don't want to do they just want to do
00:55:45.449 --> 00:55:47.469
the hands -on coaching stuff so like maybe it'd
00:55:47.469 --> 00:55:50.070
be better if I moved into to that sort of things
00:55:50.070 --> 00:55:51.730
to let the people that really want to do the
00:55:51.730 --> 00:55:53.550
hands -on coaching and nothing else just do that
00:55:53.550 --> 00:55:55.650
and I can go and do the other bits because I
00:55:55.650 --> 00:55:58.869
find that like equally rewarding um but I just
00:55:58.869 --> 00:56:02.260
want to coach for a good amount of time and like
00:56:02.260 --> 00:56:04.980
be happy with how I've coached as well there's
00:56:04.980 --> 00:56:06.940
definitely been bits which I could have done
00:56:06.940 --> 00:56:08.739
better over the last few years so I'd like to
00:56:08.739 --> 00:56:11.340
get to the point where there's less things I
00:56:11.340 --> 00:56:12.739
could have done better there's always gonna be
00:56:12.739 --> 00:56:15.159
something but trying to do it as well as possible
00:56:15.159 --> 00:56:18.119
yeah does GB have like a head coach right now
00:56:18.119 --> 00:56:22.199
or because yeah like after Tom left yeah so he
00:56:22.199 --> 00:56:24.400
we basically had all the financial struggles
00:56:24.400 --> 00:56:27.320
um oh so we have a head of performance right
00:56:27.320 --> 00:56:30.880
now um And then we have myself and Liam that
00:56:30.880 --> 00:56:34.039
are the podium coaches. And we don't have enough
00:56:34.039 --> 00:56:36.119
money to have a head coach. That kind of moves
00:56:36.119 --> 00:56:38.159
into one of the audience questions, which I guess
00:56:38.159 --> 00:56:40.519
I can... I guess I'll just ask that one now.
00:56:41.260 --> 00:56:44.480
So one of the audience questions was, why is
00:56:44.480 --> 00:56:47.579
GB climbing funding so bad? Is it getting any
00:56:47.579 --> 00:56:50.619
better? I believe at some point the coaches had
00:56:50.619 --> 00:56:53.139
to either self -fund or be funded by athletes
00:56:53.139 --> 00:56:55.840
or couldn't go to comps. So how was your experience
00:56:55.840 --> 00:56:57.760
with that? I think it was a bit of an accidental
00:56:57.760 --> 00:57:01.699
deficit in the last cycle. There was basically
00:57:01.699 --> 00:57:06.579
just an overspend. there were some messes made
00:57:06.579 --> 00:57:08.820
in the budget that meant that we spent more money
00:57:08.820 --> 00:57:11.500
than we had which is why at the end of the Olympic
00:57:11.500 --> 00:57:14.659
year the coaches had to be paid for by the athletes
00:57:14.659 --> 00:57:16.039
because we didn't have any money to send them
00:57:16.039 --> 00:57:17.679
to the competitions but we still very much wanted
00:57:17.679 --> 00:57:19.880
to support the athletes so it was offered to
00:57:19.880 --> 00:57:22.420
them if you want GB coaches to go we have the
00:57:22.420 --> 00:57:24.619
time we'll go could you just contribute to it
00:57:24.619 --> 00:57:28.460
and we did some crowdfunding but we didn't like
00:57:28.460 --> 00:57:30.139
say that they had to pay for us to go like if
00:57:30.139 --> 00:57:31.519
they couldn't afford it that was obviously fine.
00:57:32.110 --> 00:57:35.250
um but it was just like a mistake basically we
00:57:35.250 --> 00:57:38.210
don't know exactly what happened i'm sure some
00:57:38.210 --> 00:57:39.750
people do know what happened but we don't know
00:57:39.750 --> 00:57:43.349
what happened um and it was just like misbudgeted
00:57:43.349 --> 00:57:47.550
whereas now we like at the start of this cycle
00:57:47.550 --> 00:57:51.110
technically had less than the cycle before um
00:57:51.110 --> 00:57:53.530
or at least it seemed that way because we'd spent
00:57:53.530 --> 00:57:56.980
more money than we had um but now The athletes
00:57:56.980 --> 00:57:58.739
basically are to thank for this. They've done
00:57:58.739 --> 00:58:02.219
really, really well. And now UK Sport have recognised
00:58:02.219 --> 00:58:04.719
that we're actually quite a good sport. We've
00:58:04.719 --> 00:58:06.980
done a fairly good job to support athletes into
00:58:06.980 --> 00:58:09.860
medal winning performances, into transition to
00:58:09.860 --> 00:58:14.659
senior. They basically are looking at a team
00:58:14.659 --> 00:58:16.800
of successful athletes rather than one or two.
00:58:16.960 --> 00:58:19.480
And thankfully, all of our guys have done really,
00:58:19.559 --> 00:58:20.980
really well. They've pulled out some amazing
00:58:20.980 --> 00:58:23.869
performances in the last couple of years. like
00:58:23.869 --> 00:58:25.610
it's i think it is getting better i think we
00:58:25.610 --> 00:58:30.590
are getting a bit more like structured in it
00:58:30.590 --> 00:58:33.610
i guess or like stable in the financial side
00:58:33.610 --> 00:58:36.289
of things because we should be able to equally
00:58:36.289 --> 00:58:38.449
support all the competitions um and send coaches
00:58:38.449 --> 00:58:41.090
to it and not make the same mistakes again hopefully
00:58:41.090 --> 00:58:43.690
but it was basically yeah it was just a it was
00:58:43.690 --> 00:58:46.010
a mistake and we are not making it again at all
00:58:46.360 --> 00:58:48.519
Okay. Yeah, let's do another audience question.
00:58:48.699 --> 00:58:51.960
So Team GB is super strong at the moment. How
00:58:51.960 --> 00:58:54.739
has that impacted competitiveness and camaraderie
00:58:54.739 --> 00:58:57.340
amongst the athletes? I think our team's actually,
00:58:57.480 --> 00:59:00.619
like, they're pretty good. They all get on for
00:59:00.619 --> 00:59:02.480
the most part. There's always going to be, like,
00:59:02.480 --> 00:59:04.039
personal relationships. People are going to get
00:59:04.039 --> 00:59:05.679
on better with other people. But actually, like,
00:59:05.760 --> 00:59:09.039
I think all of our guys are super supportive.
00:59:10.119 --> 00:59:15.070
I think there's... like a lot of people pushing
00:59:15.070 --> 00:59:17.210
on each other like a lot of our guys especially
00:59:17.210 --> 00:59:20.449
are training together a lot of the time and like
00:59:20.449 --> 00:59:22.110
learning from each other pushing each other training
00:59:22.110 --> 00:59:24.610
together and it's pretty consistent like it's
00:59:24.610 --> 00:59:27.070
a little bit different for some others because
00:59:27.070 --> 00:59:29.469
they live in different places or especially like
00:59:29.469 --> 00:59:31.469
for Erin for example she's doing boulder and
00:59:31.469 --> 00:59:34.170
lead there's very few athletes that are actually
00:59:34.170 --> 00:59:37.989
training leads at the like world cup level in
00:59:37.989 --> 00:59:40.650
the UK and training boulder so it's hard to align
00:59:40.650 --> 00:59:43.829
the schedules and like where they go and train
00:59:43.829 --> 00:59:45.369
their leader, where they don't on certain days.
00:59:45.449 --> 00:59:49.070
So there's challenges in that sense of they might
00:59:49.070 --> 00:59:51.289
not interact that much in the offseason, but
00:59:51.289 --> 00:59:53.090
generally when they come together, there's a
00:59:53.090 --> 00:59:56.429
pretty good team environment on the whole. But
00:59:56.429 --> 00:59:58.670
like I said, there's always going to be some
00:59:58.670 --> 01:00:00.969
people that don't get on. I mean, is there any
01:00:00.969 --> 01:00:03.630
more stress dealing with maybe getting spots
01:00:03.630 --> 01:00:07.690
for World Cups? I guess like even thinking ahead
01:00:07.690 --> 01:00:11.750
to future olympic spots yeah I mean it was definitely
01:00:11.750 --> 01:00:14.630
I think quite stressful for a lot of them but
01:00:14.630 --> 01:00:17.170
we we have like a pre -selection system which
01:00:17.170 --> 01:00:19.969
for all of our guys that are like on program
01:00:19.969 --> 01:00:22.429
if they achieved certain results last year they
01:00:22.429 --> 01:00:23.949
basically get pre -selected for world cup this
01:00:23.949 --> 01:00:27.369
year so for those guys they're kind of safe they
01:00:27.369 --> 01:00:29.369
don't have to worry about it because we wanted
01:00:29.369 --> 01:00:31.010
them to be able to like train as hard as possible
01:00:31.010 --> 01:00:32.670
and not have to worry about it peaking because
01:00:32.670 --> 01:00:34.769
our comps like now but the first world cups in
01:00:34.769 --> 01:00:37.300
may or june like it just makes it a little bit
01:00:37.300 --> 01:00:38.699
easier because we're kind of stoppers when we
01:00:38.699 --> 01:00:42.519
can do those things but that does leave I think
01:00:42.519 --> 01:00:48.159
it's one older World Cup space in the men's I
01:00:48.159 --> 01:00:49.960
think it's really not that much and then it's
01:00:49.960 --> 01:00:52.219
not not a huge amount in the women's when it
01:00:52.219 --> 01:00:54.179
comes into World Cups because there's a lot of
01:00:54.179 --> 01:00:56.960
our guys like fighting for those spaces and especially
01:00:56.960 --> 01:00:58.820
for lead I think there's only like three or four
01:00:58.820 --> 01:01:04.280
that are like spaces for men and women I can't
01:01:04.280 --> 01:01:05.820
remember off the top of my head but those are
01:01:06.320 --> 01:01:09.639
a lot more competitive and it's always tough
01:01:09.639 --> 01:01:11.780
for us we've always had like a fairly competitive
01:01:11.780 --> 01:01:14.039
nation but it's definitely got a lot more tense
01:01:14.039 --> 01:01:16.679
at british champs and stuff which is why we've
01:01:16.679 --> 01:01:18.400
like moved towards a different like selection
01:01:18.400 --> 01:01:20.840
thing so it's just nice and easy you leave the
01:01:20.840 --> 01:01:22.219
competition you know that you're selected or
01:01:22.219 --> 01:01:23.840
you're not but you have to be in i think like
01:01:23.840 --> 01:01:26.139
top five or top three a lot of the time so it's
01:01:26.139 --> 01:01:29.119
quite tough okay so i guess at least for the
01:01:29.119 --> 01:01:31.000
people who are already in the world cup circuit
01:01:31.000 --> 01:01:33.579
they don't have to think about competing against
01:01:33.579 --> 01:01:37.420
each other in terms of like team GB it's more
01:01:37.420 --> 01:01:40.000
just like this is your overall performance that
01:01:40.000 --> 01:01:42.119
helps them get selected yeah and I think that
01:01:42.119 --> 01:01:44.559
helps as well with like the environment of the
01:01:44.559 --> 01:01:47.440
competitions um because previously it was like
01:01:47.440 --> 01:01:49.579
if you weren't pre -selected you had to show
01:01:49.579 --> 01:01:51.739
up at this competition where everybody's watching
01:01:51.739 --> 01:01:53.139
you like you're the one to beat makes it really
01:01:53.139 --> 01:01:56.699
hard um whereas now it's like okay well they're
01:01:56.699 --> 01:01:58.699
not they're literally not your competition they
01:01:58.699 --> 01:02:00.739
are just there to they still have to compete
01:02:00.739 --> 01:02:05.239
um but it's sort of like I can't remember why
01:02:05.239 --> 01:02:07.039
exactly is we have to compete I think it's basically
01:02:07.039 --> 01:02:09.679
to demonstrate the standard and like if like
01:02:09.679 --> 01:02:13.679
stuff people say like aim for because I guess
01:02:13.679 --> 01:02:16.019
if it was like none of them competed the numbers
01:02:16.019 --> 01:02:18.179
would be a lot smaller it'd be a lot harder to
01:02:18.179 --> 01:02:21.780
to know the performance gap I guess between the
01:02:21.780 --> 01:02:24.599
guys that are just qualifying on their own and
01:02:24.599 --> 01:02:26.639
the ones that have already pre -qualified so
01:02:26.639 --> 01:02:29.780
it's a good like training tool I guess but it
01:02:29.780 --> 01:02:31.840
also just like completely removes it and it means
01:02:31.840 --> 01:02:34.159
that like people like Toby and Aaron and Emma
01:02:34.159 --> 01:02:36.480
and Diane like they're going and they're competing
01:02:36.480 --> 01:02:38.440
alongside people that probably idolize them quite
01:02:38.440 --> 01:02:40.519
a lot and that's quite cool in itself as well
01:02:40.519 --> 01:02:44.420
yeah um like Max Milne always going and trying
01:02:44.420 --> 01:02:46.980
to win British Boulder Champs is so so cool every
01:02:46.980 --> 01:02:49.159
year and like I think that he would choose to
01:02:49.159 --> 01:02:51.019
compete anyway but it's great to have that sort
01:02:51.019 --> 01:02:53.900
of like national fight as well like they're the
01:02:53.900 --> 01:02:55.980
title is equally as important to them as like
01:02:55.980 --> 01:02:57.659
a world cup title maybe not equally but like
01:02:57.659 --> 01:03:00.599
it's an important title to them um yeah So that's
01:03:00.599 --> 01:03:02.300
cool too, but it does obviously remove the stress
01:03:02.300 --> 01:03:04.960
of everybody else doesn't have to see them as
01:03:04.960 --> 01:03:07.460
competition in the sense of selection. It's just
01:03:07.460 --> 01:03:10.599
really actual competition. Okay. What are some
01:03:10.599 --> 01:03:12.800
of the ways you've coached the GB athletes on
01:03:12.800 --> 01:03:15.519
the mental side of competition? Yeah, so I guess
01:03:15.519 --> 01:03:19.519
like on the whole as a team, we try to make sure
01:03:19.519 --> 01:03:22.440
that we set harder than the World Cups in the
01:03:22.440 --> 01:03:24.400
UK as much as possible, which is challenging
01:03:24.400 --> 01:03:27.210
because we don't get stuff set that hard. um
01:03:27.210 --> 01:03:29.289
but when we're trying to do trainings and stuff
01:03:29.289 --> 01:03:30.690
we'll always make sure that there's at least
01:03:30.690 --> 01:03:32.409
one day of a training where it's just brutal
01:03:32.409 --> 01:03:35.190
and people get shut down kind of as a psychological
01:03:35.190 --> 01:03:38.250
thing to if they can do it there then when they
01:03:38.250 --> 01:03:40.369
go to the world cups it's easy um interesting
01:03:40.369 --> 01:03:43.929
but also like removing the simulation aspects
01:03:43.929 --> 01:03:46.190
because for some of them they they hate the simulation
01:03:46.190 --> 01:03:48.030
like it's they can't get in the right mindset
01:03:48.030 --> 01:03:49.610
for it so it's just stressful it's not helpful
01:03:49.610 --> 01:03:53.530
um so we're quite flexible with that and that's
01:03:53.530 --> 01:03:55.940
mainly to athlete requests but it's again they're
01:03:55.940 --> 01:03:58.360
still going and trying hard boulders and doing
01:03:58.360 --> 01:04:00.260
harder moves and even if they can't do them they're
01:04:00.260 --> 01:04:01.860
learning a lot from that so then when they go
01:04:01.860 --> 01:04:03.659
to a world cup boulder and it's like hopefully
01:04:03.659 --> 01:04:06.619
an easier version of that move they just get
01:04:06.619 --> 01:04:08.900
it straight away. Yeah I haven't thought of that
01:04:08.900 --> 01:04:13.920
as like a mental training trick I guess. Do you
01:04:13.920 --> 01:04:17.360
feel like you provide a lot of I guess like psychological
01:04:17.360 --> 01:04:20.500
coaching as well or is it more just like these
01:04:20.500 --> 01:04:22.920
little tricks that help them feel less stressed
01:04:22.920 --> 01:04:29.000
during comps? people like Erin I would say all
01:04:29.000 --> 01:04:32.159
of the stuff that I do has like a psychological
01:04:32.159 --> 01:04:35.579
aspect to it I'm not doing like therapy sessions
01:04:35.579 --> 01:04:39.739
with her but there's some like cognitive behavioral
01:04:39.739 --> 01:04:42.440
therapy techniques that I'll use to kind of help
01:04:42.440 --> 01:04:46.659
her process when stuff is challenging and just
01:04:46.659 --> 01:04:49.619
the like changing perspectives on how they look
01:04:49.619 --> 01:04:51.940
at things and trying to again like provide that
01:04:51.940 --> 01:04:55.199
balanced perspective so if they think that they've
01:04:55.199 --> 01:04:57.079
had a terrible performance trying to provide
01:04:57.079 --> 01:04:59.699
a positive aspect to it so that they can see
01:04:59.699 --> 01:05:01.840
in a balanced sense and then equally when they've
01:05:01.840 --> 01:05:04.000
had a really good performance letting them lean
01:05:04.000 --> 01:05:06.519
into that but then coming back in to say like
01:05:06.519 --> 01:05:08.800
cool what can we continue to do to build on that
01:05:08.800 --> 01:05:11.079
anyway like it's always going to be some sort
01:05:11.079 --> 01:05:14.380
of balance in that sense um but it's always about
01:05:14.380 --> 01:05:17.909
how they're viewing it because more often than
01:05:17.909 --> 01:05:19.750
not they are just like fully negative on it they're
01:05:19.750 --> 01:05:21.110
like oh i could have done that better even when
01:05:21.110 --> 01:05:22.269
they've done really well i could have done that
01:05:22.269 --> 01:05:23.630
better i could have done that that was rubbish
01:05:23.630 --> 01:05:25.789
that wasn't good beating themselves up a lot
01:05:25.789 --> 01:05:28.989
so it's trying to like almost triage it in that
01:05:28.989 --> 01:05:31.429
sense of what do we need to focus on right now
01:05:31.429 --> 01:05:34.070
how can we control this thing let's go and focus
01:05:34.070 --> 01:05:36.250
on those things that we can control change them
01:05:36.250 --> 01:05:38.469
and anything else we're going to have to accept
01:05:38.469 --> 01:05:41.869
it and put it to the side for now and try and
01:05:41.869 --> 01:05:44.469
approach it that way what about more specifically
01:05:44.469 --> 01:05:48.730
when it's like the expectations of being one
01:05:48.730 --> 01:05:50.550
of the higher performers and like maybe having
01:05:50.550 --> 01:05:53.469
to defend your title or like being the one that
01:05:53.469 --> 01:05:56.289
everyone else is trying to be yeah I guess in
01:05:56.289 --> 01:05:58.849
in those instances I'm actually trying to help
01:05:58.849 --> 01:06:00.750
them see it from other people's perspective so
01:06:00.750 --> 01:06:04.329
you are you kind of are the one to be you are
01:06:04.329 --> 01:06:07.250
the one to watch people are waiting for you to
01:06:07.250 --> 01:06:09.750
fail because then it's their chance to step up
01:06:09.750 --> 01:06:12.369
but you can view that in a way that's really
01:06:12.369 --> 01:06:15.039
negative and like people are out to get you but
01:06:15.039 --> 01:06:17.360
realistically like most people are thinking that
01:06:17.360 --> 01:06:19.239
way in some sense it's not necessarily a malicious
01:06:19.239 --> 01:06:22.519
way it's not like oh I hope they fall off it's
01:06:22.519 --> 01:06:24.539
just oh maybe I have a chance to like step up
01:06:24.539 --> 01:06:27.460
and it's trying to help them see it from like
01:06:27.460 --> 01:06:29.340
the empathetic side of view of how do you think
01:06:29.340 --> 01:06:30.840
that person is feeling if they're thinking that
01:06:30.840 --> 01:06:32.699
way and if they're acting that way and talking
01:06:32.699 --> 01:06:34.659
that way do you think that's coming from a place
01:06:34.659 --> 01:06:36.579
of like confidence or do you think that they're
01:06:36.579 --> 01:06:38.659
actually experiencing some insecurities as well
01:06:38.659 --> 01:06:40.699
they're worried about how they're performing
01:06:41.469 --> 01:06:43.369
they think the only way that they can perform
01:06:43.369 --> 01:06:46.449
and can win is if you mess up isn't that like
01:06:46.449 --> 01:06:49.510
a shame that that's how they think like wouldn't
01:06:49.510 --> 01:06:51.429
it be nicer if they could just go like okay i'm
01:06:51.429 --> 01:06:52.889
going to perform my best and get the results
01:06:52.889 --> 01:06:56.449
i want but like it's hard isn't it so it's trying
01:06:56.449 --> 01:07:01.429
to like help them see from other sides so it's
01:07:01.429 --> 01:07:05.130
not just this negative thing um because it is
01:07:05.130 --> 01:07:07.309
quite vulnerable quite isolating when you are
01:07:07.309 --> 01:07:10.130
on your own like i've seen it quite a lot where
01:07:11.420 --> 01:07:14.719
people if like if Erin doesn't do something somebody
01:07:14.719 --> 01:07:16.599
has to be like oh my god Erin didn't do that
01:07:16.599 --> 01:07:19.739
move and I did and that can be really negative
01:07:19.739 --> 01:07:22.400
of like oh my god she's rubbish but actually
01:07:22.400 --> 01:07:24.579
I use an example of like me and her both tried
01:07:24.579 --> 01:07:26.400
the same route in Innsbruck and I do not route
01:07:26.400 --> 01:07:28.940
climb but it made me feel really good when she
01:07:28.940 --> 01:07:32.300
struggled on a move that I'd struggled on not
01:07:32.300 --> 01:07:34.500
because I was like ha she's failed but because
01:07:34.500 --> 01:07:37.139
it meant that I wasn't as rubbish as I thought
01:07:37.139 --> 01:07:38.659
I was because when I'd done that move I was like
01:07:38.659 --> 01:07:41.469
oh my god this is so hard I suck so much actually
01:07:41.469 --> 01:07:42.670
seeing her struggle I was like oh it's a hard
01:07:42.670 --> 01:07:46.309
move great like I just was trying hard so that's
01:07:46.309 --> 01:07:48.969
fine yeah it's really easy to just see it as
01:07:48.969 --> 01:07:51.250
like oh good she fails and actually like there's
01:07:51.250 --> 01:07:53.130
this whole other process is going on internally
01:07:53.130 --> 01:07:55.869
that we don't vocalize or hear from anybody else
01:07:55.869 --> 01:07:58.409
okay yeah that's a good way to put it how do
01:07:58.409 --> 01:08:01.349
you think new comps like PCL will impact the
01:08:01.349 --> 01:08:04.789
scene for both athletes and coaches I mean it's
01:08:04.789 --> 01:08:07.650
exciting it's new ways to get out there I think
01:08:08.670 --> 01:08:10.929
There's still a huge gap between the prize money
01:08:10.929 --> 01:08:13.130
that you get at a World Cup, the publicity that
01:08:13.130 --> 01:08:15.289
you get at a World Cup, all that stuff, and then
01:08:15.289 --> 01:08:17.850
the break in the off -season of what have you
01:08:17.850 --> 01:08:19.729
got to go for. Especially in the UK, we have
01:08:19.729 --> 01:08:22.350
a few small competitions with small prize monies,
01:08:22.350 --> 01:08:25.250
which I guess seem big in terms of the FSC prize
01:08:25.250 --> 01:08:29.449
money, actually. But yeah, it's hard to make
01:08:29.449 --> 01:08:32.450
money as an athlete unless you are... winning
01:08:32.450 --> 01:08:34.869
in the top eight consistently at a world cup
01:08:34.869 --> 01:08:37.109
and very few people are consistently in the top
01:08:37.109 --> 01:08:38.890
eight so it's a good way for other people to
01:08:38.890 --> 01:08:41.210
make a career out of this to put themselves out
01:08:41.210 --> 01:08:44.090
there and like get some more practice in the
01:08:44.090 --> 01:08:47.289
meantime and it seems like a cool different format
01:08:47.289 --> 01:08:50.250
i don't actually know that much about it um but
01:08:50.250 --> 01:08:52.750
it's it seems like a step towards like your formula
01:08:52.750 --> 01:08:55.329
one in that sense of making it a big show and
01:08:55.329 --> 01:08:57.170
it's traveling and more people are invested in
01:08:57.170 --> 01:08:58.470
it so it's always going to be better for the
01:08:58.470 --> 01:09:00.649
athletes to get out there with i guess other
01:09:01.039 --> 01:09:03.760
brands as well do you think the i guess like
01:09:03.760 --> 01:09:06.039
the timing of the comps will make a big difference
01:09:06.039 --> 01:09:08.260
with in terms of their training i mean that's
01:09:08.260 --> 01:09:10.500
where we struggle as well like nationally with
01:09:10.500 --> 01:09:12.800
our championships so like our selections like
01:09:12.800 --> 01:09:16.100
i was saying before if you want to make it onto
01:09:16.100 --> 01:09:18.539
the first boulder wall competition season you
01:09:18.539 --> 01:09:21.939
have to compete in january to make it there and
01:09:21.939 --> 01:09:24.140
that's just because as we get closer to like
01:09:24.140 --> 01:09:25.760
march and april there's too many other competitions
01:09:25.760 --> 01:09:27.119
that classroom there's too many of the weekends
01:09:27.119 --> 01:09:29.500
that are taken up So this is the only weekend
01:09:29.500 --> 01:09:32.220
that we have available to do that, which means
01:09:32.220 --> 01:09:34.859
that if you have to do this competition to qualify,
01:09:35.140 --> 01:09:36.939
your first competition of the year is in January
01:09:36.939 --> 01:09:38.800
and your last competition of the year now is
01:09:38.800 --> 01:09:43.039
in October. So it's a huge, huge season. There's
01:09:43.039 --> 01:09:45.180
like a bit of a training break in between, but
01:09:45.180 --> 01:09:47.039
you don't really have a break in that time because
01:09:47.039 --> 01:09:49.279
you don't want to lose too much. So you might
01:09:49.279 --> 01:09:50.479
have like a little bit of a break to recover,
01:09:50.600 --> 01:09:52.319
but then you have to train for another few weeks
01:09:52.319 --> 01:09:56.039
in between. And then maybe you get... a week
01:09:56.039 --> 01:09:58.140
or two weeks or three weeks off at the end of
01:09:58.140 --> 01:09:59.880
the year but if you didn't perform well enough
01:09:59.880 --> 01:10:01.520
to be pre -selected then you have to peak again
01:10:01.520 --> 01:10:04.640
in January so it's always really challenging
01:10:04.640 --> 01:10:06.520
the way that the year is structured yeah that
01:10:06.520 --> 01:10:08.859
sounds like a nightmare actually for the athletes
01:10:08.859 --> 01:10:13.760
okay last one from the audience we'll do tips
01:10:13.760 --> 01:10:16.199
for improvement as a coach specifically as a
01:10:16.199 --> 01:10:18.479
competition coach from someone who is new to
01:10:18.479 --> 01:10:22.039
coaching go to competitions like sounds really
01:10:22.039 --> 01:10:27.060
straightforward but I think I did a lot of volunteering
01:10:27.060 --> 01:10:31.420
time. I did a lot of time judging, being a runner
01:10:31.420 --> 01:10:33.420
at a competition, also being a coach at a competition,
01:10:33.579 --> 01:10:36.739
just going with the athletes. And the more understanding
01:10:36.739 --> 01:10:38.819
that you can get of the tactics of the competition,
01:10:38.960 --> 01:10:41.300
how it works, what things might come up, the
01:10:41.300 --> 01:10:44.420
better you can prepare your athletes. So if you're
01:10:44.420 --> 01:10:45.939
just preparing your athletes for the best situations,
01:10:46.220 --> 01:10:47.939
they're never going to do that well. So having
01:10:47.939 --> 01:10:49.979
the experience of this could go wrong in a competition,
01:10:50.260 --> 01:10:52.819
the judges could do this. this could happen and
01:10:52.819 --> 01:10:54.539
you prepare your athletes for those scenarios
01:10:54.539 --> 01:10:57.420
you use them to like make training harder to
01:10:57.420 --> 01:10:59.340
develop your skills anyway but then actually
01:10:59.340 --> 01:11:00.760
they get there and they're prepared for that
01:11:00.760 --> 01:11:02.779
then that's only going to be better and you can
01:11:02.779 --> 01:11:04.819
only learn that by going to the comps yourself
01:11:04.819 --> 01:11:08.279
like you can speak to other people and other
01:11:08.279 --> 01:11:11.020
people can tell you but i don't think that it
01:11:11.020 --> 01:11:14.619
is the same as having to like fight that fire
01:11:14.619 --> 01:11:17.859
firsthand um so try and yeah just go to them
01:11:17.859 --> 01:11:21.210
locally like nationally internationally if you
01:11:21.210 --> 01:11:23.529
can but you can the more that you build up the
01:11:23.529 --> 01:11:25.109
more like you are to move up through it anyway
01:11:25.109 --> 01:11:27.489
interesting did you do like that volunteering
01:11:27.489 --> 01:11:30.609
of like doing running and judging and stuff while
01:11:30.609 --> 01:11:32.689
you were a coach or was that before you became
01:11:32.689 --> 01:11:37.890
a coach I think I did both like I think um obviously
01:11:37.890 --> 01:11:40.489
when I was younger I remember there was a world
01:11:40.489 --> 01:11:43.449
cup or European champs or something that was
01:11:43.449 --> 01:11:45.670
happening at which was my local wall when I was
01:11:45.670 --> 01:11:48.890
a kid um and I volunteered as a runner then when
01:11:48.890 --> 01:11:54.000
I was like 15 um but then as I was older like
01:11:54.000 --> 01:11:56.539
my parents were really good at giving back to
01:11:56.539 --> 01:12:00.439
like the community that my mum ran um how her
01:12:00.439 --> 01:12:02.880
role was in Scottish climbing but she was in
01:12:02.880 --> 01:12:04.220
terms of something in Scottish climbing like
01:12:04.220 --> 01:12:05.899
she was judging at every competition and still
01:12:05.899 --> 01:12:08.579
goes and judges at some competitions now my dad
01:12:08.579 --> 01:12:10.479
was like the photographer and he did some judging
01:12:10.479 --> 01:12:14.239
as well so I was kind of brought up to give back
01:12:14.239 --> 01:12:17.039
in that sense so I just automatically went and
01:12:17.039 --> 01:12:18.699
volunteered when there's opportunities i volunteered
01:12:18.699 --> 01:12:22.939
to judge at like ycs's um which is local youth
01:12:22.939 --> 01:12:24.840
competitions that happened like across the whole
01:12:24.840 --> 01:12:26.939
uk but there is like regional rounds i would
01:12:26.939 --> 01:12:30.880
volunteer at and then if the finals was close
01:12:30.880 --> 01:12:33.899
enough to me i would like volunteer that as well
01:12:33.899 --> 01:12:36.060
so i've always and i was coaching then for sure
01:12:36.060 --> 01:12:37.579
because i remember being old enough that i had
01:12:37.579 --> 01:12:40.079
athletes competing and i had to say oh i can't
01:12:40.079 --> 01:12:42.100
judge their category it's not fair give me a
01:12:42.100 --> 01:12:46.880
different category um so yeah whole mixture cool
01:12:46.880 --> 01:12:49.420
okay well i think that wraps up the questions
01:12:49.420 --> 01:12:52.300
i have for today then thank you for joining um
01:12:52.300 --> 01:12:55.720
is there anything like any other words of wisdom
01:12:55.720 --> 01:12:58.720
that you want to get out there um don't get a
01:12:58.720 --> 01:13:00.939
sausage dog because they're like barky and need
01:13:00.939 --> 01:13:04.619
to be in your lap a little bit yeah no i can't
01:13:04.619 --> 01:13:06.100
think of anything else um do you want to let
01:13:06.100 --> 01:13:08.340
people know where they can find you uh yeah you
01:13:08.340 --> 01:13:11.020
can get me on instagram rachel karma with a k
01:13:11.020 --> 01:13:14.720
um and then i don't really well i have a youtube
01:13:14.720 --> 01:13:17.979
but that's for climbing boulders and I can't
01:13:17.979 --> 01:13:19.319
remember what that is but if you search ritual
01:13:19.319 --> 01:13:22.819
car climbing I think I come up and I post a bunch
01:13:22.819 --> 01:13:25.020
of different boulders in font the UK anywhere
01:13:25.020 --> 01:13:28.300
else I go climbing just for female beta shorter
01:13:28.300 --> 01:13:31.229
beta Oh, that'll be good to see. All right. Awesome.
01:13:31.289 --> 01:13:32.729
Well, thank you again. And it was amazing to
01:13:32.729 --> 01:13:35.489
chat. No problem. Thank you so much for making
01:13:35.489 --> 01:13:37.829
it to the end of the podcast. Don't forget to
01:13:37.829 --> 01:13:40.010
like and subscribe if you enjoyed. Otherwise,
01:13:40.130 --> 01:13:43.470
you are a super fake climber. If you're listening
01:13:43.470 --> 01:13:46.029
on a podcasting platform, I'd appreciate if you
01:13:46.029 --> 01:13:48.989
rate it five stars and you can continue the discussion
01:13:48.989 --> 01:13:52.149
on the free competition climbing discord linked
01:13:52.149 --> 01:13:54.590
in the description. Thanks again for listening.
