46: Miguel Zevallos, Youth PT
Miguel is a climbing physical therapist who works closely with the Method youth climbing team in the US and recently worked his first youth nationals! In this episode, we’ll learn about the danger of growth plate injuries in youth climbing athletes, we’ll get a glimpse into youth ISO, we’ll rank 3 of the most dangerous comp moves we’ve seen so far, and we’ll hear about his own journey trying to make the Peruvian national team!
Timestamps
Timestamps of discussion topics
0:00 - Intro
1:18 - Mad Rock Shoutout!!
2:03 - Getting into PT and climbing
4:09 - OTs vs PTs and insurance battles
7:26 - Working with youth comp climbers
9:44 - What ISO is like at youth nationals
14:38 - Massage guns? And my bro-science musings
16:43 - Injuries in kids vs adults
19:37 - The big one: growth plate injuries in kids
25:01 - When to rest vs train through an injury
27:34 - General recommendations for climbing injuries
32:45 - S+C to prevent ankle, shoulder injuries
35:26 - Ranking 3 dangerous comp moves
42:27 - When NOT to tape
47:28 - What injuries do vs don't require time off the wall
52:53 - Chronic injuries? Maybe you're climbing wrong...
59:33 - Training for Peruvian nationals
1:06:37 - DISCORD Q: What advice would you give to PT students looking to work with climbers?
1:08:46 - DISCORD Q: What are the pillars of a strong climbing warmup?
1:12:27 - DISCORD Q: top 2 exercises for injury prevention
1:17:29 - Words of wisdom and where to find Miguel
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WEBVTT
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It is the most common finger injury in comp athletes.
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And it is one of the only injuries that I would
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say needs a proper break from any loading there.
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90 % of the time, if you're dealing with a hand
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injury, you should go to an OT, not a PT. They're
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the ones that know more about it. Yeah. The thing
00:00:18.739 --> 00:00:20.839
is, obviously, I specialize in hands and fingers
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because that's what I see the most. Yeah, this
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might be a bit of a hot take on that. But I would
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say that the last one is probably the least dangerous.
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climbing as a whole really overestimates the
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value of tape. Welcome to another episode of
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the That's Not Real Climbing podcast. I'm your
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host, Jinni, and I'm excited to introduce my
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guest for today, Miguel Zevallos. Miguel is a
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climbing physical therapist who works closely
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with the Method Youth Climbing team in the US
00:00:49.530 --> 00:00:52.929
and recently worked his first youth nationals.
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In this episode, we'll learn about the danger
00:00:55.429 --> 00:00:57.710
of growth plate injuries in youth climbing athletes,
00:00:57.990 --> 00:01:00.850
we'll get a glimpse into youth ISO, we'll rank
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three of the most dangerous comp moves we've
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seen so far, and we'll hear about his own journey
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trying to make the Peruvian national team. I
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hope you enjoy this episode with Miguel. I'm
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excited to announce that my sponsor Mad Rock
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Climbing just came out with a brand new pair
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of shoes, the Remora Pro. I was so excited to
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try them on that even though I broke a toe on
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my right foot, I had to at least try on the left
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shoe. So I can definitely say that the Remora
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Pro is better than a rental shoe. But really,
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these are their softest shoe ever, which means
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you no longer need to worry about standing on
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sketchy volumes and comps. They also have a crazy
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3D heel that allows you to get more surface area
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when heel hooking and inserts that lock your
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heel into the shoe no matter how hard you're
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pulling. Feel free to message me if you have
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any questions about the shoes or sizing and you
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can use the discount code NOTREALCLIMBER for
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10 % off your entire Mad Rock order. Back to
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the show. Yeah, is it like your own practice
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or? Yeah, pretty much I work with different gyms.
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So that kind of ideal that I have is, I think,
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a pretty unique setting. I don't actually have
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an actual physical location. I just go to these
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different gyms that I have contracts with. And
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that's what I that's my full time job, right?
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I just go to these different gyms. I go to five
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different places and I see clients there. Cool.
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Well, let's get into it then. I guess just from
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the start, why did you decide to study physical
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therapy and what got you into climbing after
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that? I think you started climbing afterwards.
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Yeah. Yeah. So I was I first started. I guess
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like rock climbing in my second year of PT school.
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And pretty much like I took a very biomechanical
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approach to climbing. It was very like kind of
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science nerdy in how I wanted to like climb and
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just like see the improvements of things. And
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yeah, I just climbed throughout most of my PT
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school. It was like a nice way to like relax
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and get some physical fitness in. Did not expect
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it to become a career whatsoever. And it kind
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of sort of planned out that way, which is really
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fun. I guess, like, did you do other sports beforehand?
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Is that, like, what got you into studying PT
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in the first place? Yeah. I did, I guess, like,
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high school, like, soccer. And I did a bit of,
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like, intramural in college. I did some dance,
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like, competitive dance, which is really interesting.
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Whoa. What kind of dance? Like, some, like, hip
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-hop contemporary type style. Oh, cool. Like,
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more like the urban, yeah. It was pretty fun.
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So I always did, like, some type of, like, activity
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like that. To kind of like keep busy. I was never
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super into like traditional weightlifting, you
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know, like I gave it a shot so many times in
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high school, college and grad school. And like
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it always felt like a chore. So finding like
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an activity was always a much, much, much better
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use of, I guess, my time, if you will. Yeah.
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So then in I guess I don't really know like what
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they teach in school for physical therapy. Does
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it go much into like these finger? injuries that
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you would see in climbing or is that something
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that you somehow have to figure out on your own
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or like apply broader concepts to uh yeah like
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i would say we definitely touch on the hand and
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like the fingers and stuff like that as like
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part of overall anatomy and like physiology stuff
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like that but it is very much um i don't want
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to say afterthought but it's not nearly as as
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detailed as you would in something like like
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ot and this is actually um something i i would
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say 90 % of the time, if you're dealing with
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a hand injury, you should go to an OT, not a
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PT. They're the ones that know more about it.
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Yeah. The thing is, obviously, I specialize in
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hands and fingers because that's what I see the
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most of. So I've taken continuing education classes
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and stuff like that. But in the actual grad school,
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we touch on more the entire body, right? And
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more neuro, more cardiac stuff. There's so many
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topics to cover. Hands are a very small part.
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Whereas I think OTs spend like an entire, at
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least a whole class about it. Because it's all
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about like fine motor skills and stuff like that.
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Usually like stroke patients, stuff like that.
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So we do, to make a long story short, yes, we
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learn about it. But it is a small part of one
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course that we take. Okay. I had actually not
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heard of that before. What is an OT, by the way?
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Occupational therapist. There's a lot of similarities.
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I feel like a lot of people don't know too much
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about OTs, but they're pretty much, they do a
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lot of the similar things. You'll find them both
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working in like hospitals and similar settings,
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but they typically take care of more of the hands
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-on stuff, like the hands, maybe some wrist stuff.
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And then in general, it's more like occupational
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based. So like kind of getting you back to doing
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your normal activities of daily living and more
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just like, yeah, like just daily tasks, right?
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As opposed to like PTs tend to be more return
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to sport. If you're in that setting, orthopedic
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setting. Oh, I see. So then would you still recommend
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that for like climbers? So if you have like some
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type of like real pulley tear, yeah, for sure.
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Because typically that's going to be affecting
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more and more things. But the caveat here is
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like usually you graduate either PT or OT, whatever
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you do, when it's like, especially with a more
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traditional insurance -based model, you kind
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of graduate when you're cleared to do most of
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your things independently. And that certainly
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does not include putting your entire body weight
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on your fingertips. So typically, right, especially
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when you're trying to make your case to insurance
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companies, it's like, all right, what can't they
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do? And you got to kind of like BS it a little
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bit and be like, oh, you know, yeah, they have
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some pain in their fingers. And it is kind of
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stopping them from doing their normal work activities
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if you're typing all the time. all the software
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engineers to come see me. It's like, we got to
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be like, all right, yeah, let's make sure that
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we're trying to justify by something else that
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it's stopping you from. Obviously, I'm not doing
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really that anymore as I'm at climbing gyms.
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I don't really have to justify anything. But
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when I was at the more normal PT clinic and saw
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climbers there, it was definitely a wrestling
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match to get things approved. Oh, my gosh. The
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nightmare of American health care system, I guess.
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It's not great. If we have international viewers
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watching, they'll probably be a little bit shocked
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to hear that, I think. You have to run through
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a lot of hoops. Yeah. That's an entire episode
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on its own, honestly. Like deductibles, co -pays.
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Oh, my gosh. Yeah. We don't have to get into
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that today, thankfully. Okay. So then what kind
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of work have you done specifically with comp
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climbers? Taking a step back. got into it in
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the first place, right? I was actually approached
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by my home gym, Method Climbing in New Jersey.
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And they are actually a very well -known kind
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of competition team. They won nationals in 2023,
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I believe. So yeah, very, very good team. And
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they actually like the owners approached me saying,
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Hey, do you want to, you know, like kind of start
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treating some of the people here and, and just
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kind of like, you know, continue seeing your
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own people. And that kind of started developing
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as like my part time gig, in addition to my normal
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full time PT clinic job. And I started seeing
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a lot more recreational climbers. And as I started
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getting more of a relationship with the coaches
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there, a lot of the competition. athletes started
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seeing me there. Most of the time it was like
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in tandem with the coaching. So like I'll do
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like a one -off session and be like, hey, these
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are my findings. This is what I think they should
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avoid. And the coaches really appreciated that,
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right? So it was less of getting a client and
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then seeing them for weekly visits for X amount
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of times. And it was more so like identifying
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what the issue is and then giving some of that
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feedback to the coaches. Back then it was very
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much like... very limited spots. It was, I would
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do, Oh yeah, that sucked. It was like seven to
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10 PM on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays. Cause
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it was after my normal days. Um, yeah, I'm glad
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I'm not doing that. Yeah. That's how that started.
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And then it kind of started getting more and
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more popular where now I'm at a five different
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gyms. So, um, it's really fun. I I've built a
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good amount of community now with a lot of the
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coaches in the New Jersey, New York city area.
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And my name just started kind of getting out
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there more and more with a lot of the coaches
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and a lot of youth athletes kind of getting referred
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to me. And that's kind of my model, especially
00:09:16.370 --> 00:09:18.769
when working with youth athletes. I'll try to
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make it as independent as possible. So like I'll
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see them for a couple visits and all those findings
00:09:25.710 --> 00:09:27.850
I'll try to send to the coaches if they allow
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that. And then I'll kind of give my general suggestions
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of what they should avoid, right? It's less of
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a come to this clinic for twice a week for X
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amount of weeks. we're always kind of working
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on things while not climbing. Unless there's
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like some of the growth plate fractures, which
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is I'm sure what we'll get into in a bit. Yeah.
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And so you work a lot with like the Method Youth
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team? Yeah. So that's the one I primarily worked
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with because they actually, like I went with
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them to Youth Nationals this past year in June.
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So that was a really cool experience. June 29th
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to like July 3rd or something like that. Yeah.
00:10:01.820 --> 00:10:05.500
It's long. Yeah. Oh man. So I have a blog post
00:10:05.500 --> 00:10:07.899
about it and it was kind of like talking about,
00:10:08.379 --> 00:10:10.679
my whole experience there. And I mean, it's six
00:10:10.679 --> 00:10:13.000
days. And if you're like a very good team that
00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:15.120
has consistently people in every category making
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finals, you're there doing 12, 13 hour shifts,
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six days in a row. Oh gosh. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,
00:10:21.240 --> 00:10:24.080
and as a PT, do you get to like go into ISO?
00:10:25.059 --> 00:10:27.679
Okay. What's like the youth ISO scene? Like,
00:10:27.679 --> 00:10:31.720
is it like, is it stressful? Is it, is there
00:10:31.720 --> 00:10:34.440
a lot of, you can like feel the energy in the
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room? Especially in the semifinals and finals,
00:10:40.110 --> 00:10:43.289
everyone is just super nerve -wracking. It's
00:10:43.289 --> 00:10:45.629
pretty stressful. But how I got into it, too,
00:10:45.690 --> 00:10:49.230
is the coaches got me the L2 certification, so
00:10:49.230 --> 00:10:53.370
you need that to get into isolation. By USAC
00:10:53.370 --> 00:10:57.289
standards, I'm an L2 coach, but my job primarily
00:10:57.289 --> 00:11:00.629
there was to be the in -house PT, if you will.
00:11:00.769 --> 00:11:03.009
In ISO, what kind of work do you do there for
00:11:03.009 --> 00:11:07.190
the athletes? Yeah. So primarily it was to see
00:11:07.190 --> 00:11:09.970
that we had a list every day. We would come up
00:11:09.970 --> 00:11:11.889
with a list of like everyone who we think needs
00:11:11.889 --> 00:11:14.049
a little bit more of a touch up if they had any
00:11:14.049 --> 00:11:15.929
type of tweak. And the coaches knew this already
00:11:15.929 --> 00:11:18.029
coming into nationals who is a little banked
00:11:18.029 --> 00:11:20.470
up or whatever. Right. So we had a list and whatever
00:11:20.470 --> 00:11:23.190
the things pile up as the days kind of continue.
00:11:23.769 --> 00:11:26.330
So we had a list every time of these people that
00:11:26.330 --> 00:11:28.049
I want to see. We give them like a 20 minute
00:11:28.049 --> 00:11:31.549
block as part of their warm up. And like, yeah,
00:11:31.649 --> 00:11:33.549
so like as they're still warming up, I'll kind
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of see them for like these 20 minute blocks and
00:11:35.330 --> 00:11:37.490
do any of my treatments with them, tape them
00:11:37.490 --> 00:11:40.149
up. I did a lot of, you know, some sports taping
00:11:40.149 --> 00:11:43.429
for just like extra support and just kind of
00:11:43.429 --> 00:11:46.129
like break up some tissue and then kind of give
00:11:46.129 --> 00:11:48.110
them some like in general on the wall warmups
00:11:48.110 --> 00:11:49.929
that they should be doing to prepare. Because
00:11:49.929 --> 00:11:52.490
at the end of the day, we, especially for semis
00:11:52.490 --> 00:11:54.590
and finals, we don't know what the actual round
00:11:54.590 --> 00:11:56.710
looks like. We have to just kind of prepare for
00:11:56.710 --> 00:11:58.889
everything. And so if we know that there's like,
00:11:59.070 --> 00:12:02.110
an ankle injury, and we don't really want to
00:12:02.110 --> 00:12:04.149
be putting all the weight when it's like bent
00:12:04.149 --> 00:12:05.570
like this, right? It's like, all right, we need
00:12:05.570 --> 00:12:08.509
to be preparing for that as a part of a warmup,
00:12:08.529 --> 00:12:10.370
if that actually happens during the comp. So
00:12:10.370 --> 00:12:13.610
that's kind of my job, identifying the weak points
00:12:13.610 --> 00:12:15.909
of whatever body part that we're working on,
00:12:15.990 --> 00:12:17.909
trying to train those as part of a warmup, so
00:12:17.909 --> 00:12:20.830
then they're in best shape for their actual comp.
00:12:21.049 --> 00:12:24.139
It seems like... I think a lot of sports have
00:12:24.139 --> 00:12:26.840
something like this, but climbing is like everyone
00:12:26.840 --> 00:12:28.620
there was like, well, this is so cool. The method
00:12:28.620 --> 00:12:30.840
just filled up with like their personal PT. And
00:12:30.840 --> 00:12:33.419
they were the coaches that were gracious enough
00:12:33.419 --> 00:12:35.720
for me to whenever there was downtime, I would
00:12:35.720 --> 00:12:37.200
check up on anyone else from any other team.
00:12:37.299 --> 00:12:39.580
So that was really cool. I made some cool connections
00:12:39.580 --> 00:12:41.559
with the coaches there, but that was like my
00:12:41.559 --> 00:12:45.480
primary kind of like be the person that. prepares
00:12:45.480 --> 00:12:47.659
people when they are any tweaks i definitely
00:12:47.659 --> 00:12:49.740
saw my fair share of like emergency treatments
00:12:49.740 --> 00:12:52.200
which was kind of okay yeah like some people
00:12:52.200 --> 00:12:54.159
like got injured like you know during the comp
00:12:54.159 --> 00:12:56.360
and like wanted and it's between rounds right
00:12:56.360 --> 00:12:59.700
so like yeah you know if i had a qualifier and
00:12:59.700 --> 00:13:03.220
uh they come out of that banged up like an actual
00:13:03.220 --> 00:13:05.000
like oh i think i like actually really injured
00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:06.919
something and the semifinals is the next day
00:13:06.919 --> 00:13:11.440
that kind of uh identifying how bad the injury
00:13:11.440 --> 00:13:14.279
is just to make that call if they need to to
00:13:14.279 --> 00:13:16.559
actually like, you know, not compete in the next
00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:19.039
round, unfortunately. Hopefully that didn't happen.
00:13:19.299 --> 00:13:22.360
Everything that was kind of like banged up, we
00:13:22.360 --> 00:13:25.320
were able to at least mitigate the risk so that
00:13:25.320 --> 00:13:28.240
they can ultimately try just, but you know, I'd
00:13:28.240 --> 00:13:30.940
still say like avoid XYZ if something did happen.
00:13:31.159 --> 00:13:35.179
Makes sense. And yeah, just like with the warmups
00:13:35.179 --> 00:13:37.039
and ISO, I was just going to say, I really wish
00:13:37.039 --> 00:13:40.179
that I had like a PT who could always be there
00:13:40.179 --> 00:13:43.570
and like. give me specific moves or like exercises
00:13:43.570 --> 00:13:46.009
to do on the wall while warming up so that I
00:13:46.009 --> 00:13:48.970
can have like a good, a good comp. I feel like
00:13:48.970 --> 00:13:51.230
that would make a huge difference. Warming up
00:13:51.230 --> 00:13:54.049
is like so hard when you have an injury in the
00:13:54.049 --> 00:13:57.450
back of your head. But yeah, so I think at the
00:13:57.450 --> 00:13:59.570
World Cups, I see like a lot of coaches and PTs
00:13:59.570 --> 00:14:02.210
kind of like ready at the sidelines with like
00:14:02.210 --> 00:14:04.950
ice packs, taping, all that kind of stuff. Is
00:14:04.950 --> 00:14:07.029
that kind of like what you're doing there too?
00:14:07.330 --> 00:14:09.850
Yeah, we're in ISO. So something like, like,
00:14:10.059 --> 00:14:13.200
Cold packs wouldn't really work well, but there's
00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:15.500
definitely like kits, right? People, coaches
00:14:15.500 --> 00:14:17.179
will certainly bring like kits of like taping
00:14:17.179 --> 00:14:20.659
for bracing purposes or whatever. And then they'll
00:14:20.659 --> 00:14:22.240
have like a lot of like workout equipment, like
00:14:22.240 --> 00:14:25.720
portable boards. There's some like rubber bands,
00:14:25.759 --> 00:14:27.399
right? To like warm up the whole body and stuff
00:14:27.399 --> 00:14:30.740
like that. So it's more like a workout kit. Method
00:14:30.740 --> 00:14:33.639
kind of brings an entire, like a huge suitcase
00:14:33.639 --> 00:14:36.700
full of stuff. Yeah, yeah. They kind of pull
00:14:36.700 --> 00:14:38.259
up and just like take over an entire corner.
00:14:38.379 --> 00:14:41.259
It's really funny. Oh, wow. It's intense. I've
00:14:41.259 --> 00:14:44.460
also seen people like get massages or like use
00:14:44.460 --> 00:14:46.600
massage guns mid -comp. Like, is that actually
00:14:46.600 --> 00:14:50.799
helpful? So it's like the same idea as like de
00:14:50.799 --> 00:14:53.259
-pumping. Have you heard of that? No. So that's
00:14:53.259 --> 00:14:55.340
another thing that I did a lot when there isn't
00:14:55.340 --> 00:14:57.240
an injury per se, but like, especially when it
00:14:57.240 --> 00:14:59.019
was that boulder round. I did this a couple of
00:14:59.019 --> 00:15:00.799
times where it's like you do three boulders and
00:15:00.799 --> 00:15:04.029
then take a break. In that break. To just get
00:15:04.029 --> 00:15:06.110
all the blood like rushing out of there and like
00:15:06.110 --> 00:15:10.230
heal or get back to normal state quicker. Also
00:15:10.230 --> 00:15:12.250
like adrenaline is always going to have increased
00:15:12.250 --> 00:15:14.629
blood flow in that area to get more tightened
00:15:14.629 --> 00:15:16.830
up. I basically just depump them by doing like
00:15:16.830 --> 00:15:18.950
some soft tissue work of the form. And it's not
00:15:18.950 --> 00:15:22.570
like treatment from an injury standpoint. It's
00:15:22.570 --> 00:15:24.250
just kind of get some more blood flow in a more
00:15:24.250 --> 00:15:26.230
efficient way. But if you don't have someone
00:15:26.230 --> 00:15:27.950
actually doing that for you, something like a
00:15:27.950 --> 00:15:30.149
massage gun works quite well. Oh, really? Okay.
00:15:30.330 --> 00:15:33.250
But I would say it's not. It's not going to treat
00:15:33.250 --> 00:15:35.129
anything. It's more so like it feels nice. It
00:15:35.129 --> 00:15:36.929
kind of mobilizes things, gets blood flow. That's
00:15:36.929 --> 00:15:39.889
really what you want. I think, well, speaking
00:15:39.889 --> 00:15:42.110
of depumping, I don't know if this is really
00:15:42.110 --> 00:15:45.850
depumping, but my biggest pro science thing is
00:15:45.850 --> 00:15:51.049
that if I'm feeling pumped, I like to raise my
00:15:51.049 --> 00:15:54.309
arms above my head. And then I imagine all the
00:15:54.309 --> 00:15:58.710
blood flowing out that's tired. And then I put
00:15:58.710 --> 00:16:03.639
my arms down to get new blood in. Does that actually
00:16:03.639 --> 00:16:06.659
work? Is that a real thing? That is like without
00:16:06.659 --> 00:16:08.500
getting super scientific, that's exactly what's
00:16:08.500 --> 00:16:11.379
happening. Okay. You're literally getting like
00:16:11.379 --> 00:16:15.139
all the little kind of fatigued buildup in that
00:16:15.139 --> 00:16:17.460
area and we're making it more go back down. So
00:16:17.460 --> 00:16:19.879
getting out of the extremities. Okay. I will
00:16:19.879 --> 00:16:22.340
continue doing that then. Thank you for that.
00:16:23.100 --> 00:16:24.879
Yeah. It's like everything like you like flexing
00:16:24.879 --> 00:16:26.500
muscle, you're getting the blood flow in there,
00:16:26.539 --> 00:16:28.179
right? So like if you're consistently flexing
00:16:28.179 --> 00:16:30.679
that. all that blood starts kind of piling up
00:16:30.679 --> 00:16:33.639
here. It gets stiffer. It gets less likely for
00:16:33.639 --> 00:16:37.059
it to be able to contract in the same way when
00:16:37.059 --> 00:16:39.399
it's already full, if that makes sense. So we
00:16:39.399 --> 00:16:41.980
want to kind of let new blood kind of get in
00:16:41.980 --> 00:16:44.279
there, chill out a little bit, more oxygen. Yes,
00:16:44.299 --> 00:16:48.220
that's what it is, more oxygen. So in terms of
00:16:48.220 --> 00:16:50.720
treating like youth climbers versus adults, what
00:16:50.720 --> 00:16:52.879
are some of the differences you see there? Yeah,
00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:56.440
so this is, I think, the biggest thing that I...
00:16:57.340 --> 00:16:59.360
talked about in the blog post and when I was
00:16:59.360 --> 00:17:02.360
mentioning to other coaches, in my normal day
00:17:02.360 --> 00:17:05.619
-to -day, I guess it's not nine to five, right?
00:17:05.700 --> 00:17:09.319
It's more like three to nine. But in my normal
00:17:09.319 --> 00:17:13.240
work day, I would see like your young adults
00:17:13.240 --> 00:17:15.880
is probably the most common age range that I
00:17:15.880 --> 00:17:19.019
see. And it's usually going to be fingers, wrists,
00:17:19.160 --> 00:17:22.779
and probably shoulders, I'd say, are like the
00:17:22.779 --> 00:17:25.000
three most common things I see. Just like when
00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:27.099
you think of climbing, those are typically what
00:17:27.099 --> 00:17:31.519
you pull the most with. For youth athletes, they
00:17:31.519 --> 00:17:35.019
usually start climbing before puberty, and so
00:17:35.019 --> 00:17:38.460
their fingers grow with them. And typically their
00:17:38.460 --> 00:17:42.599
finger strength is not really an issue. And while
00:17:42.599 --> 00:17:45.000
it's still beneficial maybe to start training
00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:49.579
to get to that really elite level, I would say
00:17:49.579 --> 00:17:53.160
what I got from this was almost every injury
00:17:53.160 --> 00:17:57.289
I saw was... more traditionally like total body
00:17:57.289 --> 00:17:59.710
work, meaning like I saw a lot of like ankle
00:17:59.710 --> 00:18:03.089
stuff, a lot of back stuff, neck injuries, definitely
00:18:03.089 --> 00:18:06.049
some shoulders. But ultimately it was those like
00:18:06.049 --> 00:18:08.230
big kind of coordination moves where like you
00:18:08.230 --> 00:18:09.970
have to like press with everything and like flex
00:18:09.970 --> 00:18:13.269
every muscle. And I saw a lot of more like straining
00:18:13.269 --> 00:18:16.650
those like pulling muscles as opposed to tweaking
00:18:16.650 --> 00:18:20.099
fingers or wrists that are like more joint. that
00:18:20.099 --> 00:18:22.680
in adults you don't really train because you
00:18:22.680 --> 00:18:25.160
typically grew up doing like more muscle -based
00:18:25.160 --> 00:18:27.480
sports, if that makes sense. Like muscle -based
00:18:27.480 --> 00:18:31.160
sports as opposed to like joint -based? Yeah,
00:18:31.180 --> 00:18:33.599
it's not like you're not using muscles in climbing,
00:18:33.680 --> 00:18:36.960
right? It's more so like, you know, soccer, like,
00:18:37.019 --> 00:18:39.000
you know, your traditional sports that you do,
00:18:39.039 --> 00:18:40.720
like track, whatever, right? Like weightlifting
00:18:40.720 --> 00:18:42.779
especially, right? Like I feel like climbers
00:18:42.779 --> 00:18:44.339
tend to be against weightlifting a lot of times,
00:18:44.420 --> 00:18:47.740
right? I think all of those do a good job of
00:18:47.740 --> 00:18:51.420
building like muscle strength. And in general
00:18:51.420 --> 00:18:55.160
with kids, they grow up already with like their
00:18:55.160 --> 00:18:57.240
tendons and their joints being pretty strong
00:18:57.240 --> 00:18:59.539
because they grow with it, right? They're doing
00:18:59.539 --> 00:19:01.980
the sport that is very body weight. So they're
00:19:01.980 --> 00:19:04.140
not shock loading their system by doing too much
00:19:04.140 --> 00:19:06.599
too soon. It's just very body weight based. And
00:19:06.599 --> 00:19:08.259
then as they start growing, they start kind of
00:19:08.259 --> 00:19:10.359
increasing their strength, filling out a little
00:19:10.359 --> 00:19:15.279
bit more. And so the higher risk tends to be
00:19:15.279 --> 00:19:19.430
in those like more total body like... um very
00:19:19.430 --> 00:19:22.329
hard on the muscles as opposed to hard on like
00:19:22.329 --> 00:19:26.250
your fingers or tendons typically it takes a
00:19:26.250 --> 00:19:28.849
lot longer to build tendon strength and adults
00:19:28.849 --> 00:19:31.269
don't really train fingers ever before climbing
00:19:31.269 --> 00:19:35.430
right so that's um yeah i don't see finger pain
00:19:35.430 --> 00:19:38.450
nearly as much in the in the youth athlete population
00:19:38.450 --> 00:19:41.069
okay that makes sense yeah so you mentioned that
00:19:41.069 --> 00:19:44.829
they kind of grow with their fingers um I've
00:19:44.829 --> 00:19:48.029
heard a little bit about like growth plate injuries,
00:19:48.190 --> 00:19:50.390
but I don't know much about it. I heard that's
00:19:50.390 --> 00:19:52.990
like finger related. So is that something you
00:19:52.990 --> 00:19:56.769
can get into a bit? Yeah, for sure. So I guess
00:19:56.769 --> 00:19:58.990
to give a brief background, like science background
00:19:58.990 --> 00:20:01.650
on it, growth plates are in every joint of the
00:20:01.650 --> 00:20:04.309
body. So it's not exclusive to fingers, like
00:20:04.309 --> 00:20:06.609
your knees, everywhere that you literally grow.
00:20:07.289 --> 00:20:10.430
There's plates there that are essentially almost
00:20:10.430 --> 00:20:13.730
like an open -ended, not closed off ending of
00:20:13.730 --> 00:20:16.750
that bone. So the bone grows from that position,
00:20:16.930 --> 00:20:20.089
right? And so those are like how you get bigger,
00:20:20.230 --> 00:20:22.670
right? Like every bone in your body gets a little
00:20:22.670 --> 00:20:25.829
bit bigger to an extent as you go through puberty.
00:20:25.930 --> 00:20:29.849
So with fingers, you have them in these positions
00:20:29.849 --> 00:20:33.849
as well, right? And a lot of times... It gets
00:20:33.849 --> 00:20:35.750
misdiagnosed as pulley injuries because that's
00:20:35.750 --> 00:20:38.450
the way more popular diagnosis in adults. However,
00:20:38.609 --> 00:20:40.930
like I mentioned, tendons typically tend to be
00:20:40.930 --> 00:20:43.269
really strong on youth athletes because they
00:20:43.269 --> 00:20:46.930
grew with it, right? So when you're growing and
00:20:46.930 --> 00:20:50.369
these joints are getting larger, the weak point
00:20:50.369 --> 00:20:53.109
of that whole part of the muscle or joint area
00:20:53.109 --> 00:20:56.210
is that growth plate itself. It's because it's
00:20:56.210 --> 00:20:57.930
literally, like I said, it's like an open cap,
00:20:58.049 --> 00:21:00.069
right? And so if the bone is growing through
00:21:00.069 --> 00:21:03.289
here, to allow it to grow, that part is more
00:21:03.289 --> 00:21:07.069
malleable. It's less stiff. And so when you load
00:21:07.069 --> 00:21:09.009
it a lot or like do a lot of like, yeah, just
00:21:09.009 --> 00:21:11.529
shock loading and high intensity training in
00:21:11.529 --> 00:21:14.490
those fingers, in those growth plates, the chance
00:21:14.490 --> 00:21:16.650
of injury there is just a lot higher as opposed
00:21:16.650 --> 00:21:18.589
to like your flexor tendons or your pulleys,
00:21:18.690 --> 00:21:20.470
which are more your traditional muscle tendon
00:21:20.470 --> 00:21:23.150
based stuff. So yeah, just kind of doing a little
00:21:23.150 --> 00:21:25.529
bit more damage on the growth plate and the joint
00:21:25.529 --> 00:21:27.490
area. You can get in the knees as well, right?
00:21:27.569 --> 00:21:31.079
A lot of like, a lot of runners. Youth athletes
00:21:31.079 --> 00:21:33.140
that are runners will get growth plate injuries
00:21:33.140 --> 00:21:36.660
for the knees. Same idea, right? You're shock
00:21:36.660 --> 00:21:38.420
loading that part by running, always putting
00:21:38.420 --> 00:21:42.160
a lot of bouncing stress into it. So same thing
00:21:42.160 --> 00:21:44.740
with kids. How old until that's not really a
00:21:44.740 --> 00:21:46.519
concern anymore? Is it when you're done with
00:21:46.519 --> 00:21:50.940
puberty? Until you're done growing, yeah. Females,
00:21:51.000 --> 00:21:54.440
I think usually it's anywhere from 10, 11 to
00:21:54.440 --> 00:21:58.000
maybe 15 or so. Then boys are usually a little
00:21:58.000 --> 00:22:00.769
bit later, like 13 to 17 maybe. How often does
00:22:00.769 --> 00:22:04.230
this finger growth plate injury come up in comp
00:22:04.230 --> 00:22:07.710
athletes? It is the most common finger injury
00:22:07.710 --> 00:22:11.410
in comp athletes. So while I don't think it's
00:22:11.410 --> 00:22:14.170
the most common injury period for them, when
00:22:14.170 --> 00:22:16.049
it's a finger injury, it's the first thing you
00:22:16.049 --> 00:22:19.450
want to rule out. And it is one of the only injuries
00:22:19.450 --> 00:22:23.069
that I would say needs a proper break from any
00:22:23.069 --> 00:22:26.369
loading there. Whereas a lot of pulley stuff,
00:22:26.549 --> 00:22:29.069
flexor tendon, or just a lot of other injuries
00:22:29.069 --> 00:22:31.750
for the body, um i typically wouldn't suggest
00:22:31.750 --> 00:22:34.750
complete break um this is one where you probably
00:22:34.750 --> 00:22:38.009
need to take a break and so uh coaches it's so
00:22:38.009 --> 00:22:39.990
it's always like on on coach's mind of like oh
00:22:39.990 --> 00:22:42.190
okay how is this a growth fracture right and
00:22:42.190 --> 00:22:45.390
like the best way to to see that is with an x
00:22:45.390 --> 00:22:49.029
-ray okay and like how long of a break does it
00:22:49.029 --> 00:22:52.170
take if the damage is like pretty small it could
00:22:52.170 --> 00:22:55.759
be anywhere from you know, a couple of weeks
00:22:55.759 --> 00:22:58.440
to if it's pretty bad, it could be like, I'd
00:22:58.440 --> 00:23:01.599
say two to six weeks on the high end. Okay. And
00:23:01.599 --> 00:23:03.559
like, you can still, you know, train grip strength,
00:23:03.700 --> 00:23:05.920
but just like really not load, hyper load up
00:23:05.920 --> 00:23:08.200
of that joint over there in the fingers. I think
00:23:08.200 --> 00:23:11.059
this was my second time seeing a glute fracture
00:23:11.059 --> 00:23:15.420
injury. And it was, yeah, just like a youth athlete
00:23:15.420 --> 00:23:18.980
from a neighboring gym. And we were working on
00:23:18.980 --> 00:23:21.720
a lot of finger stuff. His finger strength itself
00:23:21.720 --> 00:23:24.950
was extremely high. So it wasn't really matching
00:23:24.950 --> 00:23:27.130
with any of the other like normal protocols that
00:23:27.130 --> 00:23:30.609
I would do. And he would really only feel that
00:23:30.609 --> 00:23:33.490
discomfort when like at the end of sessions.
00:23:33.569 --> 00:23:35.569
So like things to pick up on are like, all right,
00:23:35.589 --> 00:23:37.190
like you can do a lot of these things, but when
00:23:37.190 --> 00:23:38.910
crimping and doing a lot of it afterwards, it
00:23:38.910 --> 00:23:41.029
feels very icky, like feeling like joint pain.
00:23:41.289 --> 00:23:43.289
You don't have arthritis when you're a kid, right?
00:23:43.470 --> 00:23:45.450
So typically any joint stuff is an immediate
00:23:45.450 --> 00:23:47.549
red flag of like, okay, something might be off
00:23:47.549 --> 00:23:52.130
there, right? And so the parents were just like
00:23:52.130 --> 00:23:55.519
very, um, adamant that it was a pulley injury
00:23:55.519 --> 00:23:57.700
and I had to like pull a few teeth to, to get
00:23:57.700 --> 00:23:59.220
an x -ray and it was confirmed to be a roughly
00:23:59.220 --> 00:24:02.299
fracture. Okay. So he did have to like take some
00:24:02.299 --> 00:24:03.779
time off there. He did have to take some time
00:24:03.779 --> 00:24:05.680
off, unfortunately, but it was, um, you know,
00:24:05.680 --> 00:24:08.299
I think it was, he was off maybe like three weeks
00:24:08.299 --> 00:24:11.299
or so. And then, then when he got back into the
00:24:11.299 --> 00:24:14.970
normal training, like he was totally fine. The
00:24:14.970 --> 00:24:17.910
thing is like he, we had like off sessions like
00:24:17.910 --> 00:24:20.049
every other week or so for like six weeks. And
00:24:20.049 --> 00:24:21.589
it was like the same of like, oh, I feel really
00:24:21.589 --> 00:24:23.250
good. But then I climb again and it feels off.
00:24:23.549 --> 00:24:26.529
So it's just like the quicker you try to diagnose
00:24:26.529 --> 00:24:29.150
these things, the more you save time, right?
00:24:29.250 --> 00:24:32.930
Like those six weeks didn't need to be completely,
00:24:32.970 --> 00:24:35.210
you know, used up like that. It could have, we
00:24:35.210 --> 00:24:36.630
could have taken a proper break and then build
00:24:36.630 --> 00:24:38.829
back up. Because it is, it's a fracture, right?
00:24:38.890 --> 00:24:41.509
Like it sounds scary, but it's your, it's a literal
00:24:41.509 --> 00:24:43.779
fracture. Yeah, thinking about like taking a
00:24:43.779 --> 00:24:45.640
break from climbing. There are a lot of people
00:24:45.640 --> 00:24:47.240
in my life who may or may not listen to this
00:24:47.240 --> 00:24:50.180
episode who think that I should be like climbing
00:24:50.180 --> 00:24:53.240
more through my injuries. And my thought process
00:24:53.240 --> 00:24:56.200
is I'm not really in a huge rush or even if I
00:24:56.200 --> 00:24:58.799
do have a comp coming up, I'd like rather have
00:24:58.799 --> 00:25:01.799
it be like a bit more healed than try to do like
00:25:01.799 --> 00:25:05.519
shitty, like half effective training where I
00:25:05.519 --> 00:25:09.059
like can't give it my all. Because, like, maybe
00:25:09.059 --> 00:25:11.640
I'll re -injure it or, like, make my injury worse.
00:25:13.140 --> 00:25:16.539
I guess, like, what's the move? Like, what's
00:25:16.539 --> 00:25:18.759
the right move here? I think that's totally fine.
00:25:18.839 --> 00:25:20.799
No, I'm not going to be like, no, you have to
00:25:20.799 --> 00:25:23.799
keep climbing. No, no, no. I think if you feel
00:25:23.799 --> 00:25:28.099
that it's no longer really that fun to be climbing
00:25:28.099 --> 00:25:30.039
when you're constantly in a little bit of that
00:25:30.039 --> 00:25:31.759
discomfort, like, yeah, why would you continue?
00:25:31.940 --> 00:25:34.359
Like, just let things heal properly. I think
00:25:34.359 --> 00:25:39.390
my opinion is more so just... especially for
00:25:39.390 --> 00:25:43.190
injuries to the finger where there's very little
00:25:43.190 --> 00:25:46.930
blood flow. Yeah, and then like, yeah, the science
00:25:46.930 --> 00:25:48.650
with that is just like pulleys just don't have
00:25:48.650 --> 00:25:50.289
as much blood flow as like muscles, right? Like
00:25:50.289 --> 00:25:52.269
tendons and ligaments just have less blood flow
00:25:52.269 --> 00:25:55.730
compared to muscles. They just won't heal completely
00:25:55.730 --> 00:25:58.450
with just rest, right? So you always have like,
00:25:58.609 --> 00:26:00.509
you can take a rest in the beginning because
00:26:00.509 --> 00:26:02.210
it's uncomfortable. And then as you get back
00:26:02.210 --> 00:26:04.170
into it, just make sure that you're not getting
00:26:04.170 --> 00:26:05.809
back to what your normal was. You have to like
00:26:05.809 --> 00:26:08.710
load things back up slowly. as opposed to something
00:26:08.710 --> 00:26:11.089
like a muscle tear. You can literally tear a
00:26:11.089 --> 00:26:13.289
muscle and it's going to hurt, it's going to
00:26:13.289 --> 00:26:16.109
suck, but after, I don't know, four weeks or
00:26:16.109 --> 00:26:20.049
so, you'll be back to 100%. It won't work that
00:26:20.049 --> 00:26:22.930
way with ligaments. Timeline -wise, it takes
00:26:22.930 --> 00:26:26.450
longer to heal, but also you could rest it pretty...
00:26:28.009 --> 00:26:30.869
You can just take a proper break and then work
00:26:30.869 --> 00:26:32.470
your way back and you should be totally fine
00:26:32.470 --> 00:26:34.769
with muscle injuries. Yeah, like ligament injuries,
00:26:34.890 --> 00:26:37.869
you have to be a lot more delicate with how you
00:26:37.869 --> 00:26:39.980
approach it. That's all. It's pretty rare to
00:26:39.980 --> 00:26:42.059
tear muscles when climbing, first of all. But
00:26:42.059 --> 00:26:44.119
if you do, right, and you like really like feel
00:26:44.119 --> 00:26:46.119
that kind of like, like almost like Velcro strap
00:26:46.119 --> 00:26:48.920
feeling in that muscle, and there's like a lot
00:26:48.920 --> 00:26:51.259
of pain, a lot of swelling, whatever. If you
00:26:51.259 --> 00:26:54.099
take it pretty easy and don't really climb on
00:26:54.099 --> 00:26:55.960
it for a few weeks, and now it starts getting
00:26:55.960 --> 00:26:58.000
less painful and you can do most things at this
00:26:58.000 --> 00:26:59.700
point, you're not really restricted in your range
00:26:59.700 --> 00:27:03.779
of motion. The chance of it getting back to 100
00:27:03.779 --> 00:27:08.019
% is quite high. as opposed to a pulley tear,
00:27:08.160 --> 00:27:10.039
where if you just take a complete break and let
00:27:10.039 --> 00:27:12.180
it heal like that, it'll have a lot more scar
00:27:12.180 --> 00:27:15.039
tissue buildup because it doesn't have a lot
00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:19.980
of blood flow. So rest away, but just understand
00:27:19.980 --> 00:27:22.240
that for some injuries that are more ligament
00:27:22.240 --> 00:27:25.220
-based, you should be doing some type of loading
00:27:25.220 --> 00:27:29.440
after an initial break. In general, what's the
00:27:29.440 --> 00:27:33.730
recommendation for like... when you can start
00:27:33.730 --> 00:27:36.710
like when you can climb on something i guess
00:27:36.710 --> 00:27:39.190
like to be clear um anytime i work with someone
00:27:39.190 --> 00:27:41.710
my one of my like interview questions or like
00:27:41.710 --> 00:27:43.410
consultation questions is like what is your goal
00:27:43.410 --> 00:27:46.130
out of this in terms of like i'll have competitive
00:27:46.130 --> 00:27:48.089
athletes to say i have a competition in two weeks
00:27:48.089 --> 00:27:50.549
i need to just get to the to the finish line
00:27:50.549 --> 00:27:53.130
you know and and my approach there is going to
00:27:53.130 --> 00:27:55.089
be very different than like okay i have this
00:27:55.089 --> 00:27:57.150
thing in three months that i want to be in good
00:27:57.150 --> 00:27:59.410
shape for versus like oh i just climb for hobby
00:27:59.410 --> 00:28:02.680
for fun and that Yeah, it's going to totally
00:28:02.680 --> 00:28:06.539
vary based on what your goals are. But as general
00:28:06.539 --> 00:28:10.220
timeline rules, I would say, I guess we can go
00:28:10.220 --> 00:28:12.880
by types of injuries. So I would classify like
00:28:12.880 --> 00:28:16.099
if it's more muscular based, anywhere from four
00:28:16.099 --> 00:28:19.420
to six weeks is pretty normal for you to be back
00:28:19.420 --> 00:28:24.980
to 100%. Tendons, depending on the severity of
00:28:24.980 --> 00:28:27.869
it, can take... say onto six to eight weeks,
00:28:27.990 --> 00:28:30.990
10 weeks plus if it's an actual tear. And then
00:28:30.990 --> 00:28:33.109
ligaments can be three months plus if it's a
00:28:33.109 --> 00:28:35.170
full tear of ligaments. But like, is that with
00:28:35.170 --> 00:28:36.950
like still being able to climb on it a little
00:28:36.950 --> 00:28:40.150
bit? If it's a full rupture, you definitely need
00:28:40.150 --> 00:28:42.750
to be taking some initial break and then doing
00:28:42.750 --> 00:28:44.789
some very light loading and then climbing, I
00:28:44.789 --> 00:28:47.130
would say, starts in like the second month or
00:28:47.130 --> 00:28:49.769
so. What happens if it is like a comp climber
00:28:49.769 --> 00:28:52.569
who has a comp in two weeks? I guess this kind
00:28:52.569 --> 00:28:54.130
of goes in a tandem, but this is a fun story.
00:28:55.259 --> 00:28:59.700
I was at a competition, Ed Method actually, and
00:28:59.700 --> 00:29:03.079
they do like a citizens competition. And there
00:29:03.079 --> 00:29:07.059
was a pro climber that came by and got injured
00:29:07.059 --> 00:29:09.160
during finals, during like the second to last
00:29:09.160 --> 00:29:13.859
boulder. And he needed to just get a zone on
00:29:13.859 --> 00:29:17.160
the last one to podium. And I was like the PT
00:29:17.160 --> 00:29:18.980
on staff, if you will. Not really. Like I was
00:29:18.980 --> 00:29:20.539
just in the crowd, but they always call me when
00:29:20.539 --> 00:29:23.460
anything happens. So they made an announcement
00:29:23.460 --> 00:29:25.140
and it was like, please come into the isolation
00:29:25.140 --> 00:29:27.920
area, Miguel. I was like, okay. So I went in
00:29:27.920 --> 00:29:29.759
there and I checked up on him and it was his
00:29:29.759 --> 00:29:32.980
knee, right? And so he fell, twisted on his knee.
00:29:33.259 --> 00:29:35.900
And I was like, all right, dude, it's like a
00:29:35.900 --> 00:29:39.180
tear of like the MCL, like a proper tear. Like
00:29:39.180 --> 00:29:42.039
I can move it more than I should be, right? So
00:29:42.039 --> 00:29:44.480
I was like, okay, my honest opinion is you do
00:29:44.480 --> 00:29:47.359
not climb this fourth boulder. The risk if you
00:29:47.359 --> 00:29:49.720
fall into it right now, you could, it's like
00:29:49.720 --> 00:29:51.779
a partial tear, let's say. And impossible to
00:29:51.779 --> 00:29:54.880
tear the extent, to tell the extent without imaging
00:29:54.880 --> 00:29:57.460
exactly. But I'm like, I'm very confident that
00:29:57.460 --> 00:29:59.980
it's at least a partial tear. It's not a full
00:29:59.980 --> 00:30:02.700
because it's not completely loosed. But if you
00:30:02.700 --> 00:30:04.680
fall in it again, chance is quite high for you
00:30:04.680 --> 00:30:08.079
to finish ripping that off. So I'd say let's
00:30:08.079 --> 00:30:12.030
not do that. You can't really walk on it. And
00:30:12.030 --> 00:30:15.069
he's like, okay, but what if I land on just the
00:30:15.069 --> 00:30:17.869
good leg on that last one? And I was like, what?
00:30:18.609 --> 00:30:20.910
And he's like, yeah, I looked at the boulder
00:30:20.910 --> 00:30:24.130
and the first move is very static to the zone.
00:30:24.190 --> 00:30:25.869
And then after the zone, you have to jump. But
00:30:25.869 --> 00:30:27.930
I won't do that. I just need a zone to get podium.
00:30:28.289 --> 00:30:30.930
And I was like blown away at the level of like,
00:30:31.069 --> 00:30:34.390
it's very smart, right? It's like he understood
00:30:34.390 --> 00:30:37.589
his limitation and what he needs to do to get
00:30:37.589 --> 00:30:40.750
to that. And as long as I was like. I said, I
00:30:40.750 --> 00:30:43.349
was like, as long as you are very confident in
00:30:43.349 --> 00:30:46.569
your self -control to not go for any jumpy move.
00:30:46.809 --> 00:30:48.990
And when you do get to zone, you're going to
00:30:48.990 --> 00:30:51.569
let go and land on the other side and tuck. I
00:30:51.569 --> 00:30:53.569
was like, there's a lot of ifs here, but if you
00:30:53.569 --> 00:30:55.069
really want to do that, that's how I would approach
00:30:55.069 --> 00:30:57.009
this. So I tipped him up and I was like, that's,
00:30:57.009 --> 00:30:59.869
that would be my opinion. Like I would probably
00:30:59.869 --> 00:31:01.329
not climb, but if you do want to do that, do
00:31:01.329 --> 00:31:03.269
all of these things. And he was like, got it.
00:31:03.549 --> 00:31:06.009
He did it. He got the zone and he hopped down
00:31:06.009 --> 00:31:08.390
exactly as I, as I said. And I was like, wow.
00:31:08.670 --> 00:31:12.269
I respect it. Okay. Nice. Yeah. If your mentality
00:31:12.269 --> 00:31:14.450
is like, I need to, to get to this, like it's,
00:31:14.450 --> 00:31:15.990
I've worked on it so long. Cause it's, I mean,
00:31:15.990 --> 00:31:18.609
if some, some of these, some of these kids, especially
00:31:18.609 --> 00:31:20.529
like they, they worked all year for this, right?
00:31:20.569 --> 00:31:22.690
Like to, to say you can't go to nationals is,
00:31:22.730 --> 00:31:25.250
is very heartbreaking. So as long as you kind
00:31:25.250 --> 00:31:29.210
of say all the things that clears like my responsibility
00:31:29.210 --> 00:31:32.769
from like, this is what I think. But if you want
00:31:32.769 --> 00:31:36.529
to compete. definitely don't do xyz so i i gave
00:31:36.529 --> 00:31:38.470
those instructions to him and he followed that
00:31:38.470 --> 00:31:40.930
and he was a little older he was i think 17 or
00:31:40.930 --> 00:31:44.069
18 so um i think you're able to better make those
00:31:44.069 --> 00:31:46.670
calls if you're if you have more experience in
00:31:46.670 --> 00:31:49.529
the game um and he did that so he he understand
00:31:49.529 --> 00:31:53.730
he he was like jumping on one leg to get to the
00:31:53.730 --> 00:31:58.150
boulder oh yeah well i'm glad that he was able
00:31:58.150 --> 00:32:01.109
to pull pull out that podium it was it was so
00:32:01.109 --> 00:32:03.839
wild to see because With the MCL tear, like you
00:32:03.839 --> 00:32:06.160
can toe down pretty good. You just can't do any
00:32:06.160 --> 00:32:08.500
type of like drop knees. You can't do any real
00:32:08.500 --> 00:32:11.700
like heel hooks or like put all your weight through
00:32:11.700 --> 00:32:13.240
it. But you can like use it. You can like use
00:32:13.240 --> 00:32:15.259
your glue and like push through it, right? So
00:32:15.259 --> 00:32:17.880
I was like, okay, you can do all these things
00:32:17.880 --> 00:32:21.099
that are required in that boulder, technically
00:32:21.099 --> 00:32:23.460
speaking, up to the zone. And he could have walked
00:32:23.460 --> 00:32:27.180
to the boulder then if he wanted to. He wasn't
00:32:27.180 --> 00:32:29.140
able to put that much weight on it. Oh, wow.
00:32:29.259 --> 00:32:32.390
Okay. Full weight on it. He wasn't able to stand
00:32:32.390 --> 00:32:35.769
on that one leg. So it was a bad injury. Wow.
00:32:35.890 --> 00:32:38.809
Yeah. Thanks for sharing that one. So, yeah,
00:32:38.849 --> 00:32:40.869
going back to the youth injuries, you mentioned
00:32:40.869 --> 00:32:43.750
that a lot of the more common injuries you see
00:32:43.750 --> 00:32:46.690
now are like full body or like shoulder, back,
00:32:46.750 --> 00:32:50.210
neck kind of stuff. How do they go about preventing
00:32:50.210 --> 00:32:51.950
these injuries? Like, is there a strength training
00:32:51.950 --> 00:32:54.349
that's helpful for preventing these? Yeah. So
00:32:54.349 --> 00:32:56.430
that's a big thing I'm trying to push more for.
00:32:56.569 --> 00:33:00.529
I think general strength training. The competitive
00:33:00.529 --> 00:33:02.470
team, like Matheta, I think is like very good
00:33:02.470 --> 00:33:06.150
at doing strength training as part of their curriculum,
00:33:06.369 --> 00:33:09.369
if you will. They have like full -on workouts,
00:33:09.789 --> 00:33:11.450
right? And they do like just general conditioning.
00:33:11.730 --> 00:33:14.529
I believe a lot more teams are incorporating
00:33:14.529 --> 00:33:16.650
something like this, especially at the national
00:33:16.650 --> 00:33:19.609
level. I was talking to some coaches and just
00:33:19.609 --> 00:33:21.650
like in the West Coast, like all over the country,
00:33:21.750 --> 00:33:25.109
they're doing more of a push for general strength
00:33:25.109 --> 00:33:28.289
training. And just like from me kind of sharing
00:33:28.289 --> 00:33:30.569
some of my thoughts. seeing the amount of people
00:33:30.569 --> 00:33:32.930
that i saw with ankle injuries with back injuries
00:33:32.930 --> 00:33:36.150
um at nationals like happening during the comp
00:33:36.150 --> 00:33:39.369
um they were all like yeah we're going to start
00:33:39.369 --> 00:33:41.369
implementing like ankle training so that was
00:33:41.369 --> 00:33:43.589
kind of cool like i think they saw that and in
00:33:43.589 --> 00:33:45.450
real time made the decision for next year to
00:33:45.450 --> 00:33:47.210
start doing more ankle training and it's not
00:33:47.210 --> 00:33:49.109
to be too complex right it can be like five minutes
00:33:49.109 --> 00:33:50.890
of your warm -up to just like work on some like
00:33:50.890 --> 00:33:54.190
ankle stability static and dynamic but you know
00:33:54.190 --> 00:33:56.730
we're we're we're at a point in competition climbing
00:33:56.730 --> 00:33:59.710
where we are we are really testing the limits
00:33:59.710 --> 00:34:02.009
of like what's possible so we are always like
00:34:02.009 --> 00:34:05.109
trying to um it's very like innovative with the
00:34:05.109 --> 00:34:08.789
how three -dimensional it is right and so it's
00:34:08.789 --> 00:34:10.630
rarely just like you place a foot and you engage
00:34:10.630 --> 00:34:12.710
the foot and you pull in there's a lot of like
00:34:12.710 --> 00:34:15.690
slab running across uh like a volume stuff like
00:34:15.690 --> 00:34:17.710
that and so you can easily twist ankles if you're
00:34:17.710 --> 00:34:19.789
not if you're not training that what does ankle
00:34:19.789 --> 00:34:21.969
training look like it could look like anywhere
00:34:21.969 --> 00:34:24.150
from if you're trying to build static strength
00:34:24.150 --> 00:34:28.019
and just like be able to hold a position like
00:34:28.019 --> 00:34:30.539
all your weight on like a small jib versus like
00:34:30.539 --> 00:34:33.000
on a volume, just like standing on one leg and
00:34:33.000 --> 00:34:35.340
adding different types of load. So like, I personally
00:34:35.340 --> 00:34:36.900
like a lot of the around the world, you take
00:34:36.900 --> 00:34:39.099
a kettlebell, you stand on one leg, take a kettlebell
00:34:39.099 --> 00:34:40.840
with the hands and just pass it around your body,
00:34:40.920 --> 00:34:43.739
like in around behind the back and like this.
00:34:43.840 --> 00:34:45.699
So you're doing that with with just standing
00:34:45.699 --> 00:34:49.199
on one leg. It makes the weight go a lot more
00:34:49.199 --> 00:34:50.980
in one direction, meaning the ankle has to like
00:34:50.980 --> 00:34:53.300
work those stabilizers. And then as it goes behind,
00:34:53.679 --> 00:34:55.400
you're never kind of staying in one position,
00:34:55.519 --> 00:34:58.219
right? So I like that a lot for static strength.
00:34:58.380 --> 00:35:01.079
And then dynamic, this is where I think would
00:35:01.079 --> 00:35:02.739
be really useful for like the more coordination
00:35:02.739 --> 00:35:07.280
style is going to be a lot of like single leg
00:35:07.280 --> 00:35:11.079
jumps, box jumps, multiple jumps of like doing
00:35:11.079 --> 00:35:12.940
like jumping in one direction and then immediately
00:35:12.940 --> 00:35:15.019
as soon as you land, jumping to a different direction,
00:35:15.119 --> 00:35:17.519
just like more proprioceptive stuff, meaning
00:35:17.519 --> 00:35:21.320
your body's ability to know where it's at at
00:35:21.320 --> 00:35:23.340
any time. So that's like basically never giving
00:35:23.340 --> 00:35:26.039
it time to like. think or like visually see it's
00:35:26.039 --> 00:35:28.960
like just like more react right okay how about
00:35:28.960 --> 00:35:32.239
this i'll like i'll go over some uh like dangerous
00:35:32.239 --> 00:35:35.139
moves that people think are like pretty scary
00:35:35.139 --> 00:35:38.000
in comps and get your thoughts on those moves
00:35:38.429 --> 00:35:40.389
Sure, yeah, I'll rank them. If you're interested
00:35:40.389 --> 00:35:42.789
in ad -free episodes and would like to unlock
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00:35:45.190 --> 00:35:47.289
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00:35:47.289 --> 00:35:50.050
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help out non -monetarily, liking, commenting,
00:36:09.139 --> 00:36:11.920
and sharing helps a great deal as well. Back
00:36:11.920 --> 00:36:14.460
to the show. Okay, first one, Downward Dinos.
00:36:15.219 --> 00:36:18.980
Two, I was just thinking like the hard mat situation
00:36:18.980 --> 00:36:22.099
in Burn, if you watched that World Cup. Yeah,
00:36:22.219 --> 00:36:25.260
yeah, yeah. Yeah, with like the spin. They tried
00:36:25.260 --> 00:36:28.739
to peel it, right? Yeah, and then like the crazy
00:36:28.739 --> 00:36:32.139
falls onto the apparently very hard mat. Third
00:36:32.139 --> 00:36:34.980
one. Haven't actually, I don't know if this has
00:36:34.980 --> 00:36:36.800
actually been said in a World Cup, but I've just
00:36:36.800 --> 00:36:40.139
like seen it online. Like the dual techs foot
00:36:40.139 --> 00:36:43.860
slide onto a chip. So you like jump onto dual
00:36:43.860 --> 00:36:46.079
techs and then like the point is that you're
00:36:46.079 --> 00:36:48.179
supposed to like slide off the dual techs onto
00:36:48.179 --> 00:36:50.599
a chip. I definitely see that on like a viral
00:36:50.599 --> 00:36:52.860
Instagram reel. Have they had that in like a
00:36:52.860 --> 00:36:54.840
World Cup? I don't know if they've like specifically
00:36:54.840 --> 00:36:58.340
set that. I remember in Salt Lake, they had something
00:36:58.340 --> 00:37:01.039
like kind of similar to that, I think. Okay.
00:37:01.039 --> 00:37:04.360
Like maybe that was like where, I don't know
00:37:04.360 --> 00:37:07.880
if Natalia hurt her knee on that one or if that
00:37:07.880 --> 00:37:09.920
was like a different boulder. And then she like
00:37:09.920 --> 00:37:11.519
her knee was, I think her knee was already kind
00:37:11.519 --> 00:37:15.139
of hurt, but then she still did that move. But
00:37:15.139 --> 00:37:17.360
yeah. Yeah, this might be, yeah, this might be
00:37:17.360 --> 00:37:18.880
a bit of a hot take on that. But I would say
00:37:18.880 --> 00:37:21.440
that the last one is probably the least dangerous
00:37:21.440 --> 00:37:25.059
in terms of it's, the most controllable in that
00:37:25.059 --> 00:37:26.900
you're you're trying to go for it yeah it's i
00:37:26.900 --> 00:37:29.820
think it's the scariest probably you're um you're
00:37:29.820 --> 00:37:32.300
you're going into into like a fast kind of like
00:37:32.300 --> 00:37:35.639
steak a move that is a lot of like single leg
00:37:35.639 --> 00:37:37.579
strength and stability training that you can
00:37:37.579 --> 00:37:40.920
do and prepare for that isn't that specific to
00:37:40.920 --> 00:37:44.239
that one move like by training single leg ankle
00:37:44.239 --> 00:37:47.280
stability dynamic like shock loading like jumping
00:37:47.280 --> 00:37:49.559
in different directions right all that stuff
00:37:49.559 --> 00:37:52.789
i think you're at a much better chance at hitting
00:37:52.789 --> 00:37:55.710
a move like that. I think when it starts becoming
00:37:55.710 --> 00:38:00.409
dangerous and not advisable is when you can't
00:38:00.409 --> 00:38:03.110
control factors. It's like outside factors, outside
00:38:03.110 --> 00:38:06.909
of control, right? So I would say it was the
00:38:06.909 --> 00:38:09.030
Matt thing. What was the other one? Downward
00:38:09.030 --> 00:38:12.530
Dinos. Downward Dinos. I believe they're banned
00:38:12.530 --> 00:38:15.309
in IFSC, right? So they just added it back in
00:38:15.309 --> 00:38:19.250
this year. Whoa. Okay. Although the Downward
00:38:19.250 --> 00:38:21.400
Dinos have been more like... I don't know if
00:38:21.400 --> 00:38:24.860
it was just because they wanted to add in the
00:38:24.860 --> 00:38:28.000
lache move. So it's not like you're jumping straight
00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:30.539
from something that's higher to lower with your
00:38:30.539 --> 00:38:33.739
arms. Oh, it's more so like the curve. Yeah.
00:38:34.159 --> 00:38:36.780
Seems like it. They haven't said anything crazier
00:38:36.780 --> 00:38:39.059
than that, I think. It just goes a little bit
00:38:39.059 --> 00:38:41.820
down with the lache, usually. Okay, I'd probably
00:38:41.820 --> 00:38:45.340
go for this one next, the downward dido. I think
00:38:45.340 --> 00:38:48.860
you can train your tendons to be a little bit
00:38:48.860 --> 00:38:51.269
better at like... dealing with the shock loading.
00:38:51.389 --> 00:38:55.170
However, physiologically speaking, you are absolutely
00:38:55.170 --> 00:38:58.349
more at risk at the fast eccentric component.
00:38:58.530 --> 00:38:59.670
Do you know what concentric versus eccentric
00:38:59.670 --> 00:39:02.550
is? No, let's get into that. Concentric is like,
00:39:02.570 --> 00:39:05.230
let's say my bicep here, I'm doing this. I'm
00:39:05.230 --> 00:39:07.429
using my bicep to bring it closer to me. That's
00:39:07.429 --> 00:39:10.590
concentric. Lengthening is eccentric. So muscle
00:39:10.590 --> 00:39:12.869
gets longer, but it's still being used, right?
00:39:13.429 --> 00:39:17.869
So when you're doing like a jump and grabbing
00:39:17.869 --> 00:39:19.969
onto something, you're not just going to have
00:39:19.969 --> 00:39:21.849
a full dead stop here. You're going to like slow
00:39:21.849 --> 00:39:23.369
the momentum this way. There's just too much
00:39:23.369 --> 00:39:25.289
weight at you, right? Because you're falling
00:39:25.289 --> 00:39:27.449
on it with momentum. So gravity is also pulling
00:39:27.449 --> 00:39:30.409
you down. So you hit it. And the fact that you're
00:39:30.409 --> 00:39:32.789
activating all your lats and biceps and fingers
00:39:32.789 --> 00:39:35.110
and everything is kind of pulling in at the same
00:39:35.110 --> 00:39:37.349
time that you're lengthening it, that is just
00:39:37.349 --> 00:39:41.909
more injurious by itself, always. And so I would
00:39:41.909 --> 00:39:47.659
say it is 100 % more dangerous to... do a move
00:39:47.659 --> 00:39:51.199
like that, like on a camper's board, I think
00:39:51.199 --> 00:39:55.679
I would never suggest as part of a training thing
00:39:55.679 --> 00:40:00.920
to go all the way up and then jump and down and
00:40:00.920 --> 00:40:03.099
catch yourself here on a 20 -mile ledger or something
00:40:03.099 --> 00:40:05.639
like that. I think the risk is just much higher
00:40:05.639 --> 00:40:07.800
than the reward. Oh, interesting. Okay. Yeah.
00:40:07.800 --> 00:40:09.960
You're really shock loading your fingers while
00:40:09.960 --> 00:40:12.960
they're trying to get lengthened. I mean, I think
00:40:12.960 --> 00:40:15.159
if you have like a specific project and you want
00:40:15.159 --> 00:40:17.719
like bulletproof fingers, sure, we can work it
00:40:17.719 --> 00:40:21.280
like very lowly over time. But to 99 % of the
00:40:21.280 --> 00:40:24.340
population, the risk is always the reward on
00:40:24.340 --> 00:40:25.880
that. You always have to like think about like
00:40:25.880 --> 00:40:28.280
athlete risk versus reward. So I'm surprised
00:40:28.280 --> 00:40:29.760
that they put that back in. But I think it's
00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:32.840
probably the caveat of like if you're doing momentum
00:40:32.840 --> 00:40:35.019
with like laches and stuff like that. Yeah, I
00:40:35.019 --> 00:40:38.539
think so. And so then the worst one is the burn
00:40:38.539 --> 00:40:41.650
hard math situation. Yeah, not even the move
00:40:41.650 --> 00:40:44.289
itself, but I wasn't aware that the mats were
00:40:44.289 --> 00:40:47.230
significantly harder. I believe, yeah, like some
00:40:47.230 --> 00:40:49.150
people were saying that like they tried out like
00:40:49.150 --> 00:40:50.849
it's a different type of mat or something, but
00:40:50.849 --> 00:40:53.150
it looked like there was a bounce to it. So I
00:40:53.150 --> 00:40:56.929
would say we may have to reconsider how good.
00:40:57.210 --> 00:40:59.110
those types of mats are well i've heard some
00:40:59.110 --> 00:41:02.349
like uh conflicting info about like how hard
00:41:02.349 --> 00:41:04.889
mats should be i've heard that like hard mats
00:41:04.889 --> 00:41:07.090
can be better because then you're not going to
00:41:07.090 --> 00:41:09.670
like risk uh i guess like hurting your ankle
00:41:09.670 --> 00:41:12.510
or like uh twisting your ankle when you land
00:41:12.510 --> 00:41:17.030
um where like if the mat is too soft like maybe
00:41:17.030 --> 00:41:19.670
you'll like land on your feet weird i think if
00:41:19.670 --> 00:41:22.110
it's like like a like a mattress soft for sure
00:41:22.110 --> 00:41:26.199
like there's a lot more like give but i I don't
00:41:26.199 --> 00:41:30.199
think in most commercial gyms, it's like soft
00:41:30.199 --> 00:41:34.900
to that point. Also like the type of fall that
00:41:34.900 --> 00:41:36.760
you're going to have from setting a move that
00:41:36.760 --> 00:41:40.460
is like so wildly like dynamic, you're not going
00:41:40.460 --> 00:41:42.199
to be falling on your two feet. You're going
00:41:42.199 --> 00:41:43.980
to be on your back at some point, right? And
00:41:43.980 --> 00:41:47.260
so that kind of impact. But I don't know, that's
00:41:47.260 --> 00:41:48.519
tough, right? Because at the same point, like,
00:41:48.539 --> 00:41:50.780
no, that's bad to say. I was going to say like
00:41:50.780 --> 00:41:52.659
the worst thing that can happen is like you'll
00:41:52.659 --> 00:41:55.590
lose like your air a little bit. I know you can
00:41:55.590 --> 00:41:58.090
definitely like pull things by having like a
00:41:58.090 --> 00:42:00.630
hard, hard fall like that. So yeah, I think that
00:42:00.630 --> 00:42:03.750
stays as number one. The one place that has super,
00:42:03.809 --> 00:42:07.130
super soft mat is like Bouldering Project. I
00:42:07.130 --> 00:42:08.670
know in Seattle, at least, I don't know about
00:42:08.670 --> 00:42:10.150
like all the bouldering projects, but usually
00:42:10.150 --> 00:42:12.650
their mats are like super, super soft. Yeah,
00:42:12.769 --> 00:42:15.750
I'm not aware of that. So if it's too soft for
00:42:15.750 --> 00:42:18.110
sure, it can make it more likely for you to roll
00:42:18.110 --> 00:42:20.409
ankles. We got to find the Goldilocks. Yeah,
00:42:20.429 --> 00:42:22.130
basically it sounds like there's a lot of...
00:42:22.409 --> 00:42:25.570
specifics to what makes something like slightly
00:42:25.570 --> 00:42:27.869
more or less injury prone. Right. Do you want
00:42:27.869 --> 00:42:30.030
to get into any other hot takes that you have?
00:42:30.250 --> 00:42:34.309
Let's see. So I think tape, I use tape a lot.
00:42:34.349 --> 00:42:36.250
I like tape a lot as a source, as a resource.
00:42:37.130 --> 00:42:40.409
My hot take is that I think climbing as a whole
00:42:40.409 --> 00:42:45.329
really overestimates the value of tape and doesn't
00:42:45.329 --> 00:42:49.510
understand its uses or limitations as much as
00:42:49.510 --> 00:42:52.440
I'd like it to be. And I say that not as like
00:42:52.440 --> 00:42:54.820
to blame any coach that uses it. I think it absolutely
00:42:54.820 --> 00:42:58.079
works to support some things, right? But when
00:42:58.079 --> 00:43:00.280
it starts becoming like, oh, okay, this hurts.
00:43:00.340 --> 00:43:02.480
I'm going to tape it and still climb on it. You're
00:43:02.480 --> 00:43:05.820
very much masking a bigger problem. So I would
00:43:05.820 --> 00:43:10.059
classify use of tape as like really three different
00:43:10.059 --> 00:43:12.619
ways. One is going to be the best case scenario
00:43:12.619 --> 00:43:15.590
is you use it to. Know that you have an injury
00:43:15.590 --> 00:43:17.510
and you've been actively working towards that
00:43:17.510 --> 00:43:19.829
injury and it's used as a supportive structure
00:43:19.829 --> 00:43:22.610
so that you can still climb while rehabbing that
00:43:22.610 --> 00:43:26.030
injury. And any good kind of like PT or coach
00:43:26.030 --> 00:43:28.610
should be able to understand that that's what
00:43:28.610 --> 00:43:31.389
it's for, right? And I think most coaches do.
00:43:31.530 --> 00:43:35.130
I think it's more so let's try to educate a lot
00:43:35.130 --> 00:43:38.250
of athletes who see a lot of people in the World
00:43:38.250 --> 00:43:40.130
Cup circuit and everywhere just kind of use tape
00:43:40.130 --> 00:43:42.230
and think that that's what you should do when
00:43:42.230 --> 00:43:45.039
you're injured, right? um so that's like scenario
00:43:45.039 --> 00:43:48.219
number one right um i think the what ends up
00:43:48.219 --> 00:43:50.800
happening a lot is i have an injury i just pull
00:43:50.800 --> 00:43:53.320
the muscle uh or i pull like the most common
00:43:53.320 --> 00:43:54.980
ones like you'll see a lot of taping on the finger
00:43:54.980 --> 00:43:59.780
right for for like just random tweaks um when
00:43:59.780 --> 00:44:02.500
you use it to like oh this hurts when i do it
00:44:02.500 --> 00:44:04.820
let me put a tape on and it feels a bit better
00:44:04.820 --> 00:44:08.360
and you just continue that it it protects the
00:44:08.360 --> 00:44:11.960
pulley a little bit so that it's let um For any
00:44:11.960 --> 00:44:13.280
body part, right? But let's use the fingers as
00:44:13.280 --> 00:44:15.559
an example. It's protecting it a little bit,
00:44:15.599 --> 00:44:18.559
giving it some more support by like 10 % or so.
00:44:18.880 --> 00:44:22.820
But if you now have a feedback mechanism of like,
00:44:22.920 --> 00:44:25.159
oh, cool, I can do this with less pain now, you're
00:44:25.159 --> 00:44:27.960
going to try a little bit harder and the tape
00:44:27.960 --> 00:44:30.679
is not going to completely withstand the load
00:44:30.679 --> 00:44:33.929
anyway, right? It just gives the... a little
00:44:33.929 --> 00:44:36.369
bit more support. But if you like hit that threshold,
00:44:36.510 --> 00:44:39.269
let's say you can pull 50, like normally you
00:44:39.269 --> 00:44:41.030
can pull 100 pounds on this. But because you're
00:44:41.030 --> 00:44:42.710
a little tweaked, now you can only pull 80 pounds
00:44:42.710 --> 00:44:45.369
on it. With tape, let's say you can pull 90 pounds
00:44:45.369 --> 00:44:48.190
on it. We're making numbers up, right? But let's
00:44:48.190 --> 00:44:49.889
say that that's the case, right? And cool. Now
00:44:49.889 --> 00:44:51.969
what used to kind of hurt me doesn't really hurt
00:44:51.969 --> 00:44:54.329
me until I get to like my max level. But let's
00:44:54.329 --> 00:44:56.210
say I'm doing that in a foot slips. And now all
00:44:56.210 --> 00:44:57.530
of a sudden, all that weight went into there,
00:44:57.570 --> 00:44:59.809
we easily surpassed that 100 pounds and the chance
00:44:59.809 --> 00:45:02.159
of re -injury is much higher. And we wouldn't
00:45:02.159 --> 00:45:05.079
have that if we had a little bit more of a kind
00:45:05.079 --> 00:45:08.639
of real feedback from the hold from what we're
00:45:08.639 --> 00:45:11.599
feeling. Does that make sense? Okay. Yeah. So
00:45:11.599 --> 00:45:14.280
I think a lot of people use it in that way of
00:45:14.280 --> 00:45:16.199
like, I have something going on. Let me just
00:45:16.199 --> 00:45:17.840
put this on. It'll make you feel a bit better
00:45:17.840 --> 00:45:20.199
and then do whatever they're doing at normal
00:45:20.199 --> 00:45:22.500
level, which without trying to acknowledge that
00:45:22.500 --> 00:45:24.079
they do have something that they should actively
00:45:24.079 --> 00:45:27.000
work towards. And then the worst case scenario
00:45:27.000 --> 00:45:28.940
is when you use it when there's nothing wrong
00:45:28.940 --> 00:45:33.960
as a preventative means. I think it just creates
00:45:33.960 --> 00:45:37.880
a really bad dependency on something that is
00:45:37.880 --> 00:45:41.880
not doing anything. Okay. I guess a lot of people
00:45:41.880 --> 00:45:46.880
would continue taping. I guess I've done it just
00:45:46.880 --> 00:45:49.579
because I have been doing it and then I don't
00:45:49.579 --> 00:45:53.519
know when I can stop doing it. Like I don't know
00:45:53.519 --> 00:45:57.619
when it's healed. And that's like the main question,
00:45:57.679 --> 00:46:00.840
right? That's why if you work with a professional
00:46:00.840 --> 00:46:03.380
and you kind of have like guidance throughout
00:46:03.380 --> 00:46:05.860
this whole time, that question is easy to answer
00:46:05.860 --> 00:46:08.239
because they'll know where you're currently at
00:46:08.239 --> 00:46:10.219
and what your goal is and how you've been progressing,
00:46:10.340 --> 00:46:13.599
right? If you're doing self -rehab and it feels
00:46:13.599 --> 00:46:15.300
a lot better, but you've been using tape this
00:46:15.300 --> 00:46:16.900
whole time, it kind of gives you a false sense
00:46:16.900 --> 00:46:18.579
of security of like how good is the structure
00:46:18.579 --> 00:46:20.679
actually, right? And then if you just can kind
00:46:20.679 --> 00:46:24.800
of continue using. that support um for x amount
00:46:24.800 --> 00:46:27.579
of time after the injury is fully healed you
00:46:27.579 --> 00:46:30.380
feel that you can never quite push to the limit
00:46:30.380 --> 00:46:33.900
without this and it's just again giving you a
00:46:33.900 --> 00:46:37.300
little bit more of a snug fit not take it's not
00:46:37.300 --> 00:46:40.599
really taking any load away from it though so
00:46:40.599 --> 00:46:43.559
that's all i think um i would always encourage
00:46:43.559 --> 00:46:47.099
if there is no pain when you're climbing with
00:46:47.099 --> 00:46:51.239
tape um with whatever thing, right? And you've
00:46:51.239 --> 00:46:53.380
been doing that for two weeks is like my magic
00:46:53.380 --> 00:46:56.260
number. I like two weeks for seeing changes,
00:46:56.420 --> 00:46:58.480
right? If you're doing that for two weeks and
00:46:58.480 --> 00:46:59.880
you haven't been feeling pain for two weeks,
00:47:00.019 --> 00:47:03.579
try climbing without tape. And if the pain starts
00:47:03.579 --> 00:47:06.079
coming back, then it never healed properly. And
00:47:06.079 --> 00:47:10.239
we should take that seriously. If your cycle
00:47:10.239 --> 00:47:11.900
is like, okay, I did this for two weeks and then
00:47:11.900 --> 00:47:14.539
I climb without tape and it kind of started hurting
00:47:14.539 --> 00:47:16.699
again. And your response to that is, let me just
00:47:16.699 --> 00:47:19.130
put some tape on it again. that's what I mean
00:47:19.130 --> 00:47:20.889
of like you're consistently masking the problem,
00:47:21.050 --> 00:47:24.329
right? And that's the bad part I think about
00:47:24.329 --> 00:47:26.489
taping that I think a lot of people tend to fall
00:47:26.489 --> 00:47:29.570
into. That makes sense. Okay, I think one of
00:47:29.570 --> 00:47:31.469
the other hot takes you had mentioned, you said
00:47:31.469 --> 00:47:34.150
most injuries don't require time off the wall
00:47:34.150 --> 00:47:35.869
and knowing how to prevent it from worsening
00:47:35.869 --> 00:47:38.349
will save you a lot of frustration. So how do
00:47:38.349 --> 00:47:40.710
you prevent it from worsening? Yeah, that's difficult
00:47:40.710 --> 00:47:45.329
for, right? This is, how do you, so I think the
00:47:45.329 --> 00:47:48.019
only things I would say need a complete. time
00:47:48.019 --> 00:47:50.900
off the wall is like full tears or ruptures um
00:47:50.900 --> 00:47:54.079
whenever you see like deep bruising or changes
00:47:54.079 --> 00:47:56.860
in color in whatever whatever structure you're
00:47:56.860 --> 00:48:00.900
looking at or if there's any numbness um usually
00:48:00.900 --> 00:48:02.840
that's a sign of like some type of nerve irritation
00:48:02.840 --> 00:48:07.820
but basically any type um any type of pain that
00:48:07.820 --> 00:48:10.159
isn't mechanically driven and what i mean by
00:48:10.159 --> 00:48:12.780
that is if you can recreate the pain by doing
00:48:12.780 --> 00:48:15.719
something that's mechanically driven if you're
00:48:15.719 --> 00:48:17.650
just If you're just having like pain without
00:48:17.650 --> 00:48:19.190
doing anything, it's just kind of like a burning
00:48:19.190 --> 00:48:21.210
sensation. That's when I'm like, okay, that's
00:48:21.210 --> 00:48:23.309
a red flag. We need to take some time off slash
00:48:23.309 --> 00:48:26.309
get it checked out, right? But if it's like the
00:48:26.309 --> 00:48:28.710
easy example, again, let's say that you pop a
00:48:28.710 --> 00:48:32.170
pulley, right? It shouldn't just be in constant
00:48:32.170 --> 00:48:34.570
pain. If it is, you probably did some more damage
00:48:34.570 --> 00:48:36.730
to like all the surrounding structures. You should
00:48:36.730 --> 00:48:38.389
really only have the pain when you're actively
00:48:38.389 --> 00:48:40.230
engaging that flutter tendon because that puts
00:48:40.230 --> 00:48:42.269
pressure onto that pulley. Does that make sense?
00:48:42.730 --> 00:48:45.989
Okay, yeah. And so whenever you deal with more
00:48:45.989 --> 00:48:49.050
systemic issues, which is your non -mechanical
00:48:49.050 --> 00:48:54.210
based injuries, so like numbness, if you have
00:48:54.210 --> 00:48:56.449
a lot of deep bruising, discoloration, all of
00:48:56.449 --> 00:48:59.409
that is more blood vessel injuries, stuff like
00:48:59.409 --> 00:49:01.989
that. That's when I get it checked out. When
00:49:01.989 --> 00:49:05.869
it's purely mechanical, you typically want to
00:49:05.869 --> 00:49:09.489
be doing some type of loading for things to heal
00:49:09.489 --> 00:49:11.789
properly. Otherwise, there will be a buildup
00:49:11.789 --> 00:49:13.590
of scar tissue. So the body is really good at
00:49:13.590 --> 00:49:15.570
healing itself, but it heals itself in like a
00:49:15.570 --> 00:49:17.610
very short term aspect. If your goal is to continue
00:49:17.610 --> 00:49:20.510
climbing at a high level, you oftentimes don't
00:49:20.510 --> 00:49:22.769
want to take a complete break and then just kind
00:49:22.769 --> 00:49:25.530
of hop back into it because it more often than
00:49:25.530 --> 00:49:28.130
not didn't heal quite correctly. And fractures.
00:49:28.210 --> 00:49:29.469
I would definitely take a break with fractures.
00:49:29.789 --> 00:49:33.590
Okay. Makes sense. Okay. Good to know the differences
00:49:33.590 --> 00:49:35.289
between what you should and shouldn't take a
00:49:35.289 --> 00:49:38.250
break for. I guess if you aren't taking a break,
00:49:38.510 --> 00:49:42.820
how do you know what's too much? I would say
00:49:42.820 --> 00:49:46.519
pain, like pain theory that I tell to all my
00:49:46.519 --> 00:49:50.019
clients is if you feel that there is pain when
00:49:50.019 --> 00:49:53.940
doing a move, that is, I would say, I would classify
00:49:53.940 --> 00:49:56.380
it as sharp. So sharp meaning like it kind of
00:49:56.380 --> 00:49:58.119
like shoots up or down wherever you're feeling
00:49:58.119 --> 00:50:00.679
it or like an immediate zero to 100 pain. That's
00:50:00.679 --> 00:50:03.320
red flag. Don't do that move again. We're not
00:50:03.320 --> 00:50:05.039
ready for that yet. The body's just telling you,
00:50:05.079 --> 00:50:06.960
okay, cool. Let's do something easier or something
00:50:06.960 --> 00:50:10.730
not as aggressive. Um, if the pain is more dull,
00:50:10.889 --> 00:50:12.769
which is like kind of like creeping up on you
00:50:12.769 --> 00:50:16.409
and it gets worse with more reps or longer time
00:50:16.409 --> 00:50:19.550
that you're holding that hold, stay up to about
00:50:19.550 --> 00:50:21.809
like a three out of 10 is usually my, my benchmark.
00:50:22.130 --> 00:50:24.170
Um, if you get more than like a three out of
00:50:24.170 --> 00:50:26.389
10 dull achiness, that's another time to step,
00:50:26.429 --> 00:50:28.690
take a step away, take a break, try it again.
00:50:29.070 --> 00:50:31.989
Um, and if that continues, we know that that's
00:50:31.989 --> 00:50:35.349
too much, right? if it stays up to a three or
00:50:35.349 --> 00:50:37.550
less and it kind of feels that dull achiness,
00:50:37.590 --> 00:50:39.929
but it doesn't get any worse with prolonged time.
00:50:40.030 --> 00:50:42.090
In fact, it actually gets a bit better. That's
00:50:42.090 --> 00:50:44.489
the sweet spot. You want to feel a little bit
00:50:44.489 --> 00:50:47.070
of discomfort, right? You want to feel like you're
00:50:47.070 --> 00:50:49.050
trying a little bit. The tissues are clearly
00:50:49.050 --> 00:50:51.210
telling you, no, I'm not at 100%, but I need
00:50:51.210 --> 00:50:53.909
some of this load to get better. We want to stay
00:50:53.909 --> 00:50:56.269
in that like one to three out of 10 discomfort
00:50:56.269 --> 00:50:58.130
when we're doing things. Up to a four maybe,
00:50:58.289 --> 00:51:00.050
right? But yeah, anything that is like sharp
00:51:00.050 --> 00:51:03.969
goes to 100 really quickly or gets worse with
00:51:03.969 --> 00:51:06.510
more repetitions where we want to stay away from
00:51:06.510 --> 00:51:09.889
those. And then afterwards, if you end a session
00:51:09.889 --> 00:51:12.050
and let's say you never got to sharp pain and
00:51:12.050 --> 00:51:14.230
never got to over a three out of 10 and you end
00:51:14.230 --> 00:51:17.130
the session and it feels sore and that soreness
00:51:17.130 --> 00:51:19.909
goes away within a couple hours, you did just
00:51:19.909 --> 00:51:23.389
enough. If that lingers until the next day, you
00:51:23.389 --> 00:51:26.150
did too much. I see. And there's different injuries
00:51:26.150 --> 00:51:31.559
that will, more often than not present as longer
00:51:31.559 --> 00:51:35.980
lasting, as in like more acute in the way that
00:51:35.980 --> 00:51:37.920
you'll feel an immediate pain when doing something,
00:51:38.019 --> 00:51:41.000
something like a pulley tear. You don't need
00:51:41.000 --> 00:51:43.719
to, it'll be pretty obvious. Like you do a movement
00:51:43.719 --> 00:51:46.559
that'll hurt, right? Whereas something like a
00:51:46.559 --> 00:51:50.559
tendonitis issue or a flexor tendinitis, issues
00:51:50.559 --> 00:51:52.539
that are more like inflammation of an entire
00:51:52.539 --> 00:51:57.840
group. That won't really be as in your face during
00:51:57.840 --> 00:51:59.780
a specific move. It'll be more afterwards. And
00:51:59.780 --> 00:52:03.159
it's the accumulation of lower loads over time
00:52:03.159 --> 00:52:05.159
that will kind of get that achiness that you're
00:52:05.159 --> 00:52:08.280
feeling. Those tends to be the more frustrating
00:52:08.280 --> 00:52:10.280
ones. It's less obvious to catch on your own,
00:52:10.300 --> 00:52:12.079
right? And so working with a professional there
00:52:12.079 --> 00:52:16.380
is obviously of value. But my advice stands true
00:52:16.380 --> 00:52:19.949
of like, if you did... if you feel a little bit
00:52:19.949 --> 00:52:21.590
of achiness afterwards and it goes away in a
00:52:21.590 --> 00:52:24.050
couple hours, we did good. Call that a good session.
00:52:24.210 --> 00:52:26.349
Let's stay in that pocket. But if you never get
00:52:26.349 --> 00:52:28.530
to that pain level, you don't know what you can
00:52:28.530 --> 00:52:30.210
do and it'll just start kind of healing slightly
00:52:30.210 --> 00:52:32.630
incorrectly. That's all. Thanks for going into
00:52:32.630 --> 00:52:36.050
that. Okay. One thing that I thought about with
00:52:36.050 --> 00:52:38.769
like youth athletes, I feel like I've talked
00:52:38.769 --> 00:52:41.269
to a few youth athletes. Sometimes I ask about
00:52:41.269 --> 00:52:43.150
like what injuries they've had. And a lot of
00:52:43.150 --> 00:52:46.230
times I just hear like, oh, I've like never had
00:52:46.230 --> 00:52:48.869
an injury. Is that like the most important thing,
00:52:48.969 --> 00:52:51.610
like not getting injured? Because so many people
00:52:51.610 --> 00:52:53.329
I've talked to, it's just like, oh, I've never
00:52:53.329 --> 00:52:56.530
been injured. Like, wow, that's nice. Yeah. I
00:52:56.530 --> 00:52:58.710
don't know. I have this thought in my mind that
00:52:58.710 --> 00:53:00.670
like once you've injured something once, it will
00:53:00.670 --> 00:53:03.349
always be just like worse. Like you can rehab
00:53:03.349 --> 00:53:05.110
it as much as you want, but it will always be
00:53:05.110 --> 00:53:08.550
like worse. Okay. This is another thing that
00:53:08.550 --> 00:53:11.250
I kind of like tell a lot of my clients with
00:53:11.250 --> 00:53:12.829
like recurring injuries because I think chronic
00:53:12.829 --> 00:53:16.269
injuries are like the most – The hardest to deal
00:53:16.269 --> 00:53:18.590
with from a provider standpoint, because it's
00:53:18.590 --> 00:53:22.250
less of a blank manual of like, okay, if this
00:53:22.250 --> 00:53:23.809
and that, right? You have to like look at the
00:53:23.809 --> 00:53:27.269
whole kind of history and like your current climbing
00:53:27.269 --> 00:53:29.150
volume intensity, what you're doing on the rest
00:53:29.150 --> 00:53:31.530
days, all that stuff, right? So I always kind
00:53:31.530 --> 00:53:34.650
of go with the side of if you injure something,
00:53:34.789 --> 00:53:39.130
if it's a tear and it kind of healed, it's for
00:53:39.130 --> 00:53:40.949
the most part fine now, but like it always feels
00:53:40.949 --> 00:53:43.090
a little bit off. It probably healed in a way
00:53:43.090 --> 00:53:46.219
that it never really got. to that 100%. So it
00:53:46.219 --> 00:53:48.579
always got to like 90, 95%. And then your body
00:53:48.579 --> 00:53:50.860
got really good at like making up for it, right?
00:53:50.960 --> 00:53:54.199
And so my job is we want to be continuing to
00:53:54.199 --> 00:53:56.119
progress in climbing most of the time, right?
00:53:56.199 --> 00:54:00.699
And so I take a much more kind of movement -based
00:54:00.699 --> 00:54:05.989
approach for that end stage rehab, right? you
00:54:05.989 --> 00:54:08.809
can only do so much of like the lifting and like
00:54:08.809 --> 00:54:11.750
the hangboard stuff. Ultimately, something about
00:54:11.750 --> 00:54:14.809
how you're climbing is probably causing this
00:54:14.809 --> 00:54:17.070
recurring injury to happen. So I like to be a
00:54:17.070 --> 00:54:18.289
little bit more holistic with like, all right,
00:54:18.349 --> 00:54:21.670
how are we moving? Are we not taking enough weight
00:54:21.670 --> 00:54:23.230
from our feet? And that's why we're consistently
00:54:23.230 --> 00:54:24.769
over gripping or something like that, right?
00:54:24.869 --> 00:54:27.389
If we're like consistently chicken winging our
00:54:27.389 --> 00:54:30.369
shoulders, right? And some parts of our shoulders
00:54:30.369 --> 00:54:33.130
are taking more weight than others. We can rehab
00:54:33.130 --> 00:54:36.539
things all the time. And if you don't actually
00:54:36.539 --> 00:54:39.699
like change what is getting you in that place
00:54:39.699 --> 00:54:41.500
in the first place, then it's just going to be
00:54:41.500 --> 00:54:43.400
a chronic issue. But I think people think that,
00:54:43.400 --> 00:54:46.280
like what you said, if you injured it once, that
00:54:46.280 --> 00:54:47.800
thing is just never going to get better again.
00:54:47.920 --> 00:54:50.500
I think it's more so why did it happen in the
00:54:50.500 --> 00:54:52.400
first place? If it's just like a one -off acute
00:54:52.400 --> 00:54:54.239
injury or is it an accumulation of how you're
00:54:54.239 --> 00:54:56.960
climbing? And more often than not, it's something
00:54:56.960 --> 00:54:59.059
about how you're climbing. Okay. That is something
00:54:59.059 --> 00:55:01.650
I will have to think about. Yeah. And it's so
00:55:01.650 --> 00:55:03.909
hard to know on your own. And this is not me
00:55:03.909 --> 00:55:06.309
pitching my own services. I think I do it myself
00:55:06.309 --> 00:55:11.989
as well. I go to an OT when I have something
00:55:11.989 --> 00:55:14.570
wrong with myself because it's hard to take away
00:55:14.570 --> 00:55:18.469
my own bias. So I think understanding that getting
00:55:18.469 --> 00:55:21.969
frustrated is okay. But taking a step back and
00:55:21.969 --> 00:55:23.650
being like, why is this happening is going to
00:55:23.650 --> 00:55:27.150
be a much better question than, okay, how can
00:55:27.150 --> 00:55:30.179
I... How can I just rehab this on its own and
00:55:30.179 --> 00:55:33.639
like taking that as a vacuum, right? So yeah,
00:55:33.699 --> 00:55:37.900
I think with all the programming that I do, I
00:55:37.900 --> 00:55:42.579
always end with doing the hard stuff on the wall,
00:55:42.699 --> 00:55:45.320
right? Like if you got injured crimping, we will
00:55:45.320 --> 00:55:47.460
absolutely be doing crimping as part of like
00:55:47.460 --> 00:55:49.840
your last session. And so all my sessions are
00:55:49.840 --> 00:55:52.460
on. climbing gyms so like i have that look like
00:55:52.460 --> 00:55:54.139
be able to do all these like movement sessions
00:55:54.139 --> 00:55:56.659
in the gyms like that and uh that's for like
00:55:56.659 --> 00:55:59.179
all in -person stuff but for all my online programming
00:55:59.179 --> 00:56:02.699
very much so as part of the program i'll have
00:56:02.699 --> 00:56:04.800
like open climbing and i'll say like i want you
00:56:04.800 --> 00:56:06.900
to do a max board session and it's part of your
00:56:06.900 --> 00:56:10.239
rehab no okay yeah no that totally makes sense
00:56:10.239 --> 00:56:12.639
and yeah i was like thinking back on the injuries
00:56:12.639 --> 00:56:15.400
i had i guess like i had a lot of like wrist
00:56:15.400 --> 00:56:18.760
issues when i was like first starting and I was
00:56:18.760 --> 00:56:20.619
like oh my god like this is never gonna get better
00:56:20.619 --> 00:56:24.139
it like keeps re -injuring but then I just like
00:56:24.139 --> 00:56:26.039
yeah I haven't really had that since so that
00:56:26.039 --> 00:56:28.440
one kind of fixed itself now I just have like
00:56:28.440 --> 00:56:31.300
constant shoulder injuries that always come back
00:56:31.300 --> 00:56:34.380
up so yeah maybe one day if I fix my climbing
00:56:34.380 --> 00:56:37.300
that'll fix itself too yeah or like it's not
00:56:37.300 --> 00:56:38.940
just like fixing your climbing doesn't like get
00:56:38.940 --> 00:56:40.699
better at climbing it's more so like what are
00:56:40.699 --> 00:56:43.739
you doing in terms of like yeah like yeah like
00:56:43.739 --> 00:56:45.940
I'm definitely climbing in a way that's messing
00:56:45.940 --> 00:56:48.239
it up somehow I kind of figured that out. Another
00:56:48.239 --> 00:56:50.900
thing, though, I would say, like, yeah, unfortunately,
00:56:51.400 --> 00:56:55.079
like, it's a truth that the older you get, the
00:56:55.079 --> 00:56:58.360
longer it takes for things to heal. There's just,
00:56:58.360 --> 00:57:01.559
like, blood flow to that area. Like, youth athletes
00:57:01.559 --> 00:57:03.599
are just much more malleable. Like, their bodies
00:57:03.599 --> 00:57:05.599
can, like, they're like rubber bands, you know?
00:57:05.860 --> 00:57:08.159
Like, oh, my God, I've seen so many cases where,
00:57:08.219 --> 00:57:10.599
like, there's, like, a, like, I always measure
00:57:10.599 --> 00:57:12.800
one side to the other. And, like, one side will
00:57:12.800 --> 00:57:14.360
be, like, half of the other side if there's,
00:57:14.380 --> 00:57:17.570
like, a really bad injury. And, you know, I see
00:57:17.570 --> 00:57:19.190
them once or twice in like a couple of weeks,
00:57:19.210 --> 00:57:21.110
they're like back to 100%. It's insane. It's
00:57:21.110 --> 00:57:25.690
like, oh, it must be nice. But no, I think when
00:57:25.690 --> 00:57:27.710
we're dealing mostly with the adult population
00:57:27.710 --> 00:57:32.130
and you get to that 90%, the job isn't done there.
00:57:32.210 --> 00:57:35.750
We have to be stronger. So I guess let me share
00:57:35.750 --> 00:57:39.210
this too real quick. I popped a pulley like three
00:57:39.210 --> 00:57:41.960
years ago. That actually kind of led to me wanting
00:57:41.960 --> 00:57:44.980
to do this full time. But yeah, so I pop a pulley
00:57:44.980 --> 00:57:47.340
there and I knew that physiologically speaking,
00:57:47.559 --> 00:57:49.800
once the ligament is fully torn, it was a full
00:57:49.800 --> 00:57:52.400
rupture. It's never going to heal again in terms
00:57:52.400 --> 00:57:54.860
of like that pulley is gone. If you take a CT
00:57:54.860 --> 00:57:57.260
scan of me, like I do not have that pulley anymore.
00:57:57.460 --> 00:58:00.920
However, it is full of just like these kind of
00:58:00.920 --> 00:58:02.960
like adhesions that build up in the area. And
00:58:02.960 --> 00:58:04.599
overall, your body just gets really good over
00:58:04.599 --> 00:58:08.230
time being able to compensate for it. The way
00:58:08.230 --> 00:58:10.670
I explain it is, let's say this can pull 100
00:58:10.670 --> 00:58:13.190
pounds because of that injury, even though I
00:58:13.190 --> 00:58:15.110
did the rehab that I'm supposed to, it can only
00:58:15.110 --> 00:58:18.349
ever pull 90 pounds. However, that was when I
00:58:18.349 --> 00:58:21.670
was a V5 climber or V6 climber. Since I've gone
00:58:21.670 --> 00:58:24.730
up quite a few grades from there, I will now,
00:58:24.809 --> 00:58:27.289
instead of pulling 100 pounds here, I pull 120.
00:58:27.809 --> 00:58:31.070
But because of, in all my fingers, let's say,
00:58:31.090 --> 00:58:33.309
right? But now without 120 pounds on all the
00:58:33.309 --> 00:58:35.489
other fingers, this one is only 110. So it's
00:58:35.489 --> 00:58:39.230
never quite. what it could be, but 110 is still
00:58:39.230 --> 00:58:42.730
better than 100 pounds. That it was perfectly
00:58:42.730 --> 00:58:45.869
fine years ago. Does that make sense? Yeah. Okay.
00:58:45.889 --> 00:58:47.369
So we just need to get to a point where we're
00:58:47.369 --> 00:58:51.309
like making up the difference by just in... continuing
00:58:51.309 --> 00:58:53.449
to like get stronger and like being past our
00:58:53.449 --> 00:58:55.929
normal level so that we don't really notice it
00:58:55.929 --> 00:58:58.590
as much. So that's kind of like my philosophy
00:58:58.590 --> 00:59:00.289
with it. It's like, it's, it's not a lost cause.
00:59:00.409 --> 00:59:03.030
Like I, you know, even, even in the absolute
00:59:03.030 --> 00:59:05.349
worst case scenario, which most of the time it
00:59:05.349 --> 00:59:08.050
isn't right. Like a rupture of a ligament is
00:59:08.050 --> 00:59:09.449
worst case scenario because that won't heal,
00:59:09.510 --> 00:59:12.409
but tendons like muscles, all of those heal quite
00:59:12.409 --> 00:59:16.289
well. Right. And so knowing that and knowing
00:59:16.289 --> 00:59:18.929
that it could heal and even, even if it won't
00:59:18.929 --> 00:59:21.619
heal, like. like completely like getting you
00:59:21.619 --> 00:59:24.179
to a higher threshold level so that you can tolerate
00:59:24.179 --> 00:59:27.360
these loads. I think just, it speaks volume.
00:59:27.440 --> 00:59:31.559
I think it's a consistent, you can always consistently
00:59:31.559 --> 00:59:35.500
improve. Okay, cool. So now going a bit into
00:59:35.500 --> 00:59:38.280
your own climbing, you climb quite a bit, like
00:59:38.280 --> 00:59:42.869
quite a lot yourself. You mentioned that you
00:59:42.869 --> 00:59:45.909
were training for Peruvian nationals. I am, yeah.
00:59:46.090 --> 00:59:47.570
This is my first time ever making this public,
00:59:47.630 --> 00:59:50.710
so this is fun. Yeah. What are the eligibility
00:59:50.710 --> 00:59:56.730
requirements for that? So I guess I wanted to
00:59:56.730 --> 01:00:00.869
throw my hand in there. I competed these last
01:00:00.869 --> 01:00:03.610
month in June, early June. Two months ago now,
01:00:03.630 --> 01:00:06.059
yeah. um just to kind of see where i was at i
01:00:06.059 --> 01:00:07.960
trained maybe like two to three months prior
01:00:07.960 --> 01:00:10.179
up to it just so i wasn't completely washed but
01:00:10.179 --> 01:00:13.880
um uh yeah i kind of like um first time ever
01:00:13.880 --> 01:00:15.780
doing some type of competition like that i went
01:00:15.780 --> 01:00:18.800
in and it's basically like the you go you go
01:00:18.800 --> 01:00:22.159
into into like whatever building it is and it's
01:00:22.159 --> 01:00:23.760
complete isolation right like you're you're kind
01:00:23.760 --> 01:00:25.340
of locked in with with all the training equipment
01:00:25.340 --> 01:00:28.440
um and then one by one you just get pulled in
01:00:28.440 --> 01:00:31.159
uh and the requirement pretty much you just have
01:00:31.159 --> 01:00:33.559
to be a citizen of that country Um, so I have
01:00:33.559 --> 01:00:36.219
dual citizenship and, and then qualify either,
01:00:36.300 --> 01:00:38.320
uh, at some competitions you need like prior
01:00:38.320 --> 01:00:41.460
entry for it. For Peru, you, you don't, it's,
01:00:41.460 --> 01:00:43.880
I, I don't think most, like, I think in the US
01:00:43.880 --> 01:00:45.820
you need to qualify to go to nationals by doing
01:00:45.820 --> 01:00:47.920
like ECS and stuff like that. In Peru you don't.
01:00:47.920 --> 01:00:50.059
So I was like completely newcomer, just kind
01:00:50.059 --> 01:00:53.360
of see what it was about. Um, and, and yeah,
01:00:53.420 --> 01:00:55.719
I, I kind of saw what the level was and, um,
01:00:55.860 --> 01:00:58.719
I, I don't think I'm too far off. So I'm, I'm,
01:00:58.719 --> 01:01:00.780
I'm taking this year to like. Really, really
01:01:00.780 --> 01:01:03.780
trained. Nice. Okay. How did you do in June?
01:01:03.980 --> 01:01:06.800
I got 18th. Oh yeah, that's not bad. Yeah. So
01:01:06.800 --> 01:01:08.800
you need, I think, top eight to make finals.
01:01:08.940 --> 01:01:11.500
And once you're in finals, again, every country
01:01:11.500 --> 01:01:13.739
is going to have like different policies. I believe
01:01:13.739 --> 01:01:17.659
top six make team, I want to say. So I have a
01:01:17.659 --> 01:01:20.039
long way to go, but I would say technique wise,
01:01:20.159 --> 01:01:22.809
I'm going to... Luckily, the facilities that
01:01:22.809 --> 01:01:25.269
I have access to, one, I'm in multiple facilities.
01:01:25.309 --> 01:01:28.650
I have five gyms. But just in the U .S. in general,
01:01:28.710 --> 01:01:31.489
the facilities are just so much more high tech
01:01:31.489 --> 01:01:34.010
than in Peru. It's still very much a new sport
01:01:34.010 --> 01:01:37.849
there. So they train a lot on spray boards and
01:01:37.849 --> 01:01:40.230
spray walls and stuff like that. And they're
01:01:40.230 --> 01:01:43.510
very physically strong. All of them can do one
01:01:43.510 --> 01:01:46.989
-arm pull -ups. No problem. But technique -wise,
01:01:47.210 --> 01:01:50.099
I would say it's... especially on like slab and
01:01:50.099 --> 01:01:52.840
coordination, it's definitely like a step back
01:01:52.840 --> 01:01:59.980
on what you would see in like even like a divisionals
01:01:59.980 --> 01:02:02.360
or definitely like a nationals level event here.
01:02:02.519 --> 01:02:05.320
Like it's not really that comparable. So how
01:02:05.320 --> 01:02:07.260
are you training for it? Do you have like a coach
01:02:07.260 --> 01:02:08.900
that you work with or are you doing your own
01:02:08.900 --> 01:02:11.210
programming? Yeah, I'm a big fan of the barter
01:02:11.210 --> 01:02:13.590
system. Okay, that makes sense. That makes sense,
01:02:13.750 --> 01:02:16.829
yeah. So I have done like trades with like seven
01:02:16.829 --> 01:02:20.250
or eight different coaches. Okay. I think I feel
01:02:20.250 --> 01:02:21.869
pretty good about writing my own training program,
01:02:22.010 --> 01:02:23.650
just like, you know, my understanding of how
01:02:23.650 --> 01:02:27.949
things work on my end. But the one -to -one kind
01:02:27.949 --> 01:02:30.329
of private coaching is, I think, super valuable
01:02:30.329 --> 01:02:33.550
for me. Having someone like pinpoint what I'm
01:02:33.550 --> 01:02:35.210
doing wrong and just kind of like coach me through
01:02:35.210 --> 01:02:38.349
it is really, really good. So yeah, I currently...
01:02:39.840 --> 01:02:43.219
I've worked a lot with a couple coaches in the
01:02:43.219 --> 01:02:46.280
area more consistently, but a bunch of times
01:02:46.280 --> 01:02:48.420
I'll do one -off sessions for a bunch of people.
01:02:48.619 --> 01:02:50.460
What's your training look like or what's the
01:02:50.460 --> 01:02:52.599
biggest weakness that you're working on? Physical
01:02:52.599 --> 01:02:56.619
strength by far. I thought I was a pretty physical
01:02:56.619 --> 01:03:00.159
climber, but they put all their stats in physicality.
01:03:01.199 --> 01:03:08.519
It's crazy to see. I would say Kordo and Yeah,
01:03:08.539 --> 01:03:11.760
just like coordination moves. I think even where
01:03:11.760 --> 01:03:14.159
I'm at right now, I think I'm at a level where
01:03:14.159 --> 01:03:17.780
it's good enough to like make the team. Whereas
01:03:17.780 --> 01:03:21.019
my physical strength is definitely ways away.
01:03:21.139 --> 01:03:24.960
So I want to build up a lot more like just contact
01:03:24.960 --> 01:03:28.219
strength, a lot more explosivity and just like
01:03:28.219 --> 01:03:30.300
holding on to really bad holds. That's the other
01:03:30.300 --> 01:03:32.119
thing. They don't have like the pristine, nice,
01:03:32.159 --> 01:03:34.860
like frictiony holds that we have here. So it's
01:03:34.860 --> 01:03:37.440
just like. just squeezing really hard on bad
01:03:37.440 --> 01:03:40.440
holds. Yeah. So like at the, at the comp, did
01:03:40.440 --> 01:03:43.440
they set a lot of like physical stuff that you
01:03:43.440 --> 01:03:45.440
couldn't do? Yeah. So like, I'm sure you're aware,
01:03:45.559 --> 01:03:47.260
right? Like usually, usually here there's like
01:03:47.260 --> 01:03:49.199
one physical boulder and like the other three
01:03:49.199 --> 01:03:51.400
are like more technique based, right? Like usually
01:03:51.400 --> 01:03:54.519
a slab, a cordo, whatever, right? There they
01:03:54.519 --> 01:03:57.800
had three physical boulders, one slab and one
01:03:57.800 --> 01:04:00.690
cordo. Oh, there were five. Yeah. Okay, interesting.
01:04:01.130 --> 01:04:04.309
Yeah, for the qualifiers. Yeah, I would love
01:04:04.309 --> 01:04:08.389
to see videos of that later if you have any footage
01:04:08.389 --> 01:04:11.530
of you doing the competition. The only footage
01:04:11.530 --> 01:04:14.050
I got was my grandpa taking it, and it's like
01:04:14.050 --> 01:04:18.730
a little camcorder. It's really bad, but it's
01:04:18.730 --> 01:04:20.909
very nice of him. Well, yeah, best of luck to
01:04:20.909 --> 01:04:23.829
you this year. Yeah, it'd be really cool if you
01:04:23.829 --> 01:04:26.110
made it in. What's like... Do you have like a
01:04:26.110 --> 01:04:29.610
final goal with that? Like make the team go to
01:04:29.610 --> 01:04:32.769
like World Cups or how does that work? If I make
01:04:32.769 --> 01:04:36.550
team, I can then go to any of the World Cups,
01:04:36.630 --> 01:04:40.489
right? So once I do that, I believe there's only
01:04:40.489 --> 01:04:43.409
two slots per, like IFSC changed this, so it's
01:04:43.409 --> 01:04:45.550
only two slots per country unless you have people
01:04:45.550 --> 01:04:49.510
in the top 50, which we don't. So yes, it'll
01:04:49.510 --> 01:04:52.230
be two per competition. The thing is Peru doesn't
01:04:52.230 --> 01:04:55.219
have a lot of budget. So they'll send like the
01:04:55.219 --> 01:04:57.920
top two people to a few of the comps and then
01:04:57.920 --> 01:04:59.539
the rest, they'll run out of money and be like,
01:04:59.639 --> 01:05:01.280
all right, well, anyone else down the pecking
01:05:01.280 --> 01:05:03.280
order, if you want to go, you have to like sponsor
01:05:03.280 --> 01:05:05.460
yourself. And that's where I come in, right?
01:05:06.159 --> 01:05:08.380
So I think I'm in a lucky spot where I think
01:05:08.380 --> 01:05:13.760
I'll definitely take my chance when... Yeah,
01:05:13.800 --> 01:05:15.539
I think definitely they wouldn't sponsor any
01:05:15.539 --> 01:05:18.300
of the Asia World Cups. So I would want to go
01:05:18.300 --> 01:05:20.199
to maybe a couple of the European ones, one of
01:05:20.199 --> 01:05:22.900
the Asian ones. I think it would just be super
01:05:22.900 --> 01:05:27.380
fun as just like a getaway. When am I ever going
01:05:27.380 --> 01:05:29.719
to have a chance to do an event like this and
01:05:29.719 --> 01:05:32.500
also just treat it as a vacation while I'm there?
01:05:33.980 --> 01:05:36.039
Plus, also, I think it just kind of looks pretty
01:05:36.039 --> 01:05:37.559
good from a marketing standpoint, right? That
01:05:37.559 --> 01:05:40.320
a climate -specific PT is also a World Cup competitor.
01:05:40.480 --> 01:05:42.190
That's kind of cool. that'd be really cool. It'd
01:05:42.190 --> 01:05:46.010
be really cool just to like get, like see like
01:05:46.010 --> 01:05:48.610
where the other competitors are at and then see
01:05:48.610 --> 01:05:50.409
what the level is like. I think it's a really
01:05:50.409 --> 01:05:53.070
good experience. It'd be really fun. Um, like
01:05:53.070 --> 01:05:56.989
I said, I, I think I, I never thought this would
01:05:56.989 --> 01:06:00.349
be nearly as possible. So I, I really only started
01:06:00.349 --> 01:06:03.590
training like a few months ago, um, to, yeah,
01:06:03.630 --> 01:06:05.670
I think everyone kind of hits a, like a plateau
01:06:05.670 --> 01:06:09.269
at certain point. Right. So to me, um, that was
01:06:09.269 --> 01:06:12.190
like the, The V8, V9 level is where I kind of
01:06:12.190 --> 01:06:16.409
hit the plateau. And so I think trying to like
01:06:16.409 --> 01:06:18.949
really push it from here requires a lot of like
01:06:18.949 --> 01:06:22.210
dedicated training and things like that. So I'm
01:06:22.210 --> 01:06:24.090
excited to see how far I can push it. And if
01:06:24.090 --> 01:06:26.429
I can make team, have a really cool experience
01:06:26.429 --> 01:06:28.090
at a World Cup, I'll definitely make a lot of
01:06:28.090 --> 01:06:30.070
cool content about it. No, that would be really
01:06:30.070 --> 01:06:32.289
sick. Yeah. Good luck to you. That'd be awesome.
01:06:32.469 --> 01:06:35.050
A dream. It's not going to be until May. So I
01:06:35.050 --> 01:06:37.170
have quite a few months to train. No, that's
01:06:37.170 --> 01:06:39.190
a good amount of time. Yeah, there's a lot that
01:06:39.190 --> 01:06:41.909
you can do in that amount of time. Awesome. Okay,
01:06:42.030 --> 01:06:45.050
cool. So let's get into some of the audience
01:06:45.050 --> 01:06:48.269
submitted questions. The first one, what advice
01:06:48.269 --> 01:06:50.829
would you give to PT students looking to work
01:06:50.829 --> 01:06:54.550
with climbers? I've had like three different
01:06:54.550 --> 01:06:57.670
cold emails asking me about this. Okay, you can
01:06:57.670 --> 01:07:01.610
answer it all here. Yeah, I would say. First
01:07:01.610 --> 01:07:03.570
of all, assuming that you're already in PT school
01:07:03.570 --> 01:07:07.070
and everything or trying to get into that, understanding
01:07:07.070 --> 01:07:12.230
that probably social media is the one thing that
01:07:12.230 --> 01:07:16.789
got my name more out there. If you don't really
01:07:16.789 --> 01:07:18.570
want to use social media at all, you just have
01:07:18.570 --> 01:07:20.610
to work a lot harder for building connections
01:07:20.610 --> 01:07:25.530
in that industry in general. It turns out to
01:07:25.530 --> 01:07:27.530
be a lot of if you can build connections with
01:07:27.530 --> 01:07:30.210
the gyms that you're working at, that helps a
01:07:30.210 --> 01:07:33.670
lot. you're gonna make a lot of people like within
01:07:33.670 --> 01:07:36.349
that community, like pretty happy with what you're
01:07:36.349 --> 01:07:40.650
offering. Also, there's a lot of continuing education
01:07:40.650 --> 01:07:42.829
classes that you can take because as I said,
01:07:42.869 --> 01:07:45.429
there's not that much focus on fingers and hands
01:07:45.429 --> 01:07:47.710
on physical therapy school. So I would definitely
01:07:47.710 --> 01:07:49.989
recommend doing like continuing education classes.
01:07:50.670 --> 01:07:52.769
Um, there are, there's a lot of great resources
01:07:52.769 --> 01:07:55.250
out there. I took a class with Jerry Baggy. Um,
01:07:55.449 --> 01:07:57.429
he's known, I believe as a climbing doctor in
01:07:57.429 --> 01:07:59.849
Instagram. So he's, uh, he offers like courses
01:07:59.849 --> 01:08:03.230
for PTs to take, or actually PT students as well
01:08:03.230 --> 01:08:06.230
can take it. And it's basically like PT for climbers
01:08:06.230 --> 01:08:08.530
specifically. That's what the course is. Um,
01:08:08.630 --> 01:08:10.530
so yeah, I took that course. I took a couple
01:08:10.530 --> 01:08:12.230
other stuff that is like more like, like manual
01:08:12.230 --> 01:08:14.090
driven, more for hands and wrists, stuff like
01:08:14.090 --> 01:08:17.649
that. So I, it required a lot of like deep research
01:08:17.649 --> 01:08:19.880
on my end. Because it's not something that gets
01:08:19.880 --> 01:08:22.039
taught too much in school. And then really applying
01:08:22.039 --> 01:08:25.199
that with the local community in my gym first.
01:08:25.819 --> 01:08:27.760
Eventually, social media started getting my name
01:08:27.760 --> 01:08:30.000
more out there. And then I kind of grew from
01:08:30.000 --> 01:08:34.119
there. But it was a grind. I would say I posted
01:08:34.119 --> 01:08:37.159
things on my social media. Started, I believe,
01:08:37.279 --> 01:08:42.470
February of 2022. And I didn't see my first client
01:08:42.470 --> 01:08:45.970
until I think it was like October of that year.
01:08:46.189 --> 01:08:49.029
Wow. Yeah. Social media is a grind. I think we
01:08:49.029 --> 01:08:51.510
all know that. It is a grind. It is not so easy.
01:08:52.430 --> 01:08:55.890
Okay. So next one, what are the pillars of a
01:08:55.890 --> 01:08:58.069
strong climbing warmup? Oh, that's a great question.
01:08:59.430 --> 01:09:02.130
Yeah. You can do so many things for a warmup.
01:09:02.189 --> 01:09:04.189
I think if I were to classify things, if you
01:09:04.189 --> 01:09:06.970
are warming, like getting some blood flow into
01:09:06.970 --> 01:09:09.130
your whole body. whether that's cardio, whether
01:09:09.130 --> 01:09:10.609
that's like doing something like jumping jacks
01:09:10.609 --> 01:09:12.569
or whatever, or just doing some like light pull
01:09:12.569 --> 01:09:15.630
-ups, just things to like be at a much lower
01:09:15.630 --> 01:09:17.310
level than what you're normally pulling, doing
01:09:17.310 --> 01:09:21.210
that. You can do like, just like on the wall,
01:09:21.270 --> 01:09:23.670
just like doing a traverse, like that works okay
01:09:23.670 --> 01:09:28.130
too. My big gripe is you got to warm up to what
01:09:28.130 --> 01:09:29.770
you're going to be climbing that day, especially
01:09:29.770 --> 01:09:32.470
if you have a particular project in mind. That's
01:09:32.470 --> 01:09:34.979
why I don't like, I don't like. The idea of like,
01:09:35.020 --> 01:09:36.979
this is like my one warmup every time I change
01:09:36.979 --> 01:09:38.500
up what I want to do based on what I want, what
01:09:38.500 --> 01:09:40.319
I want to work on that day. So in my training,
01:09:40.420 --> 01:09:43.979
I have a coordination day, a slab day, and a
01:09:43.979 --> 01:09:46.619
like two physical strength days. The warmup for
01:09:46.619 --> 01:09:48.539
those, for those three classifications are actually
01:09:48.539 --> 01:09:52.060
a good bit different. I hit the pillars of like
01:09:52.060 --> 01:09:54.000
getting some blood flow in my body. I'm getting
01:09:54.000 --> 01:09:56.239
some light movement by doing some like, you know,
01:09:56.260 --> 01:09:57.920
I'll do like five pull -ups. I'll do like a couple
01:09:57.920 --> 01:10:00.359
of explosive pull -ups, maybe a couple of pushups
01:10:00.359 --> 01:10:02.850
just to get some blood flow everywhere. And once
01:10:02.850 --> 01:10:04.949
I hit that, that's like kind of the only similarity.
01:10:05.010 --> 01:10:08.350
After that, if you're going for a more kind of
01:10:08.350 --> 01:10:10.810
like movement -based day, focus a lot more on
01:10:10.810 --> 01:10:13.069
like mobility. I like active mobility before
01:10:13.069 --> 01:10:17.689
passive. And then if you're going to be doing
01:10:17.689 --> 01:10:20.890
a lot of like coordination movements, definitely
01:10:20.890 --> 01:10:23.369
you got to be doing some type of like dynamic
01:10:23.369 --> 01:10:26.529
pull -up or like some type of like explosive
01:10:26.529 --> 01:10:29.989
thing before you get into that project. And then
01:10:29.989 --> 01:10:31.970
if you're just going to be like climbing on crimps
01:10:31.970 --> 01:10:33.850
all the time, like spend some time on the hangboard.
01:10:34.689 --> 01:10:36.289
Right. As long as we're kind of like hitting
01:10:36.289 --> 01:10:38.409
things at a lower level from what you're going
01:10:38.409 --> 01:10:40.210
to be climbing that day. And if your day is just
01:10:40.210 --> 01:10:41.550
like, oh, I just want to climb for fun. Yeah.
01:10:41.609 --> 01:10:44.930
Do little light hangboard. Just get some blood
01:10:44.930 --> 01:10:47.550
flow there. Some active mobility, some active
01:10:47.550 --> 01:10:49.350
stretches. Right. And then just like doing some
01:10:49.350 --> 01:10:51.390
regular pull up training, maybe a couple of pushups
01:10:51.390 --> 01:10:54.229
just to warm the pressing motions. And don't
01:10:54.229 --> 01:10:57.520
neglect the legs. I think that's another big
01:10:57.520 --> 01:10:59.460
one. I always include a couple of pistol squats
01:10:59.460 --> 01:11:02.760
in my warm -up. A couple of pistol squats. Okay.
01:11:02.819 --> 01:11:06.300
I need to warm up into a pistol squat. Yeah.
01:11:06.880 --> 01:11:08.720
Do just like sit to stand. I like to have it
01:11:08.720 --> 01:11:11.960
like a block. Just like stand and sit down from
01:11:11.960 --> 01:11:13.920
there. I guess like what about warm -ups for
01:11:13.920 --> 01:11:16.520
like competitors in ISO? I find it so hard to
01:11:16.520 --> 01:11:18.319
like warm up in ISO where you don't really have
01:11:18.319 --> 01:11:20.340
like a big space and then you have to like be
01:11:20.340 --> 01:11:23.479
prepared for anything. That's like, yeah, that's
01:11:23.479 --> 01:11:25.489
a hard warm -up for me. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's
01:11:25.489 --> 01:11:27.050
similar to what I just said, right? Of like,
01:11:27.149 --> 01:11:29.630
if you know that you're going to be doing a lot
01:11:29.630 --> 01:11:33.569
of like dynamic stuff, you got to make makeups
01:11:33.569 --> 01:11:35.470
on this, on the wall. So like I saw this so much
01:11:35.470 --> 01:11:37.250
at nationals and the coaches do such a cool job
01:11:37.250 --> 01:11:39.909
of this. Like these are, these are people who
01:11:39.909 --> 01:11:42.989
are going to be doing V10 plus boulders in a
01:11:42.989 --> 01:11:44.949
couple minutes or like in an hour. Right. And
01:11:44.949 --> 01:11:47.859
so with. the the things that are available to
01:11:47.859 --> 01:11:50.479
them they're like going from from one hold to
01:11:50.479 --> 01:11:52.720
a boulder that is like has nothing to do with
01:11:52.720 --> 01:11:54.479
it right just like different crosses but just
01:11:54.479 --> 01:11:58.380
making like makeups of moves that i think will
01:11:58.380 --> 01:12:00.239
get the body moving in the right way it's going
01:12:00.239 --> 01:12:03.300
to be super cool so i'd spend um i usually spend
01:12:03.300 --> 01:12:06.100
like five minutes on the spray wall if your gym
01:12:06.100 --> 01:12:08.800
doesn't have a spray wall um i would just do
01:12:08.800 --> 01:12:12.159
like some like light like you know whatever grades
01:12:12.159 --> 01:12:15.109
you climb like a greater tube below your flash
01:12:15.109 --> 01:12:18.810
level. Climb it at least once very static and
01:12:18.810 --> 01:12:22.710
once fast using momentum. Okay, cool. Last question.
01:12:22.750 --> 01:12:25.569
This is a little bit general. So I'm trying to
01:12:25.569 --> 01:12:28.670
think of how to ask this. Well, so the question
01:12:28.670 --> 01:12:30.949
itself is what exercises do you recommend for
01:12:30.949 --> 01:12:33.810
injury prevention? Of course, there's a bunch
01:12:33.810 --> 01:12:36.090
of different exercises for whatever injury you're
01:12:36.090 --> 01:12:40.050
trying to do. So maybe pick like two most common
01:12:40.050 --> 01:12:43.569
like comp injuries and what exercises you would
01:12:43.569 --> 01:12:47.250
suggest for strengthening those. For specifically
01:12:47.250 --> 01:12:49.800
for comp climbers? We could just do climbing
01:12:49.800 --> 01:12:52.699
in general. The most common thing I see is fingers.
01:12:52.819 --> 01:12:57.060
So I think if you don't do some type of hangboard
01:12:57.060 --> 01:13:02.340
or block pickups as part of your warmup, you
01:13:02.340 --> 01:13:07.079
absolutely should. My biggest gripe is when you
01:13:07.079 --> 01:13:12.380
just warm up on B0 -2s on jugs and then you hop
01:13:12.380 --> 01:13:15.079
into a crimpy climb after that. You did not warm
01:13:15.079 --> 01:13:17.800
up your fingers at all. Like you're just pulling
01:13:17.800 --> 01:13:20.840
on like bucket handles. So that doesn't do anything
01:13:20.840 --> 01:13:22.600
to your actually pulleys and flexor tendons.
01:13:22.699 --> 01:13:25.180
So yeah, if you don't already do some type of
01:13:25.180 --> 01:13:27.520
handboard, let's definitely incorporate that.
01:13:29.260 --> 01:13:32.199
There's a cool study that was posted that says
01:13:32.199 --> 01:13:34.979
that the most optimal, meaning optimal, they
01:13:34.979 --> 01:13:39.680
define as the chance of injuring that tissue
01:13:39.680 --> 01:13:44.939
is negligible or with more warmup. it does not
01:13:44.939 --> 01:13:46.899
make it more warm, if that makes sense. Like
01:13:46.899 --> 01:13:48.840
it's as warm as it can get. That's how they define
01:13:48.840 --> 01:13:51.819
optimal. Like the tissue has as much blood flow
01:13:51.819 --> 01:13:54.840
as it wants to get, as it can get. And so at
01:13:54.840 --> 01:13:57.699
that point to you doing 30 more minutes of climbing,
01:13:57.859 --> 01:14:00.699
it's not any more warm. So that's how they define
01:14:00.699 --> 01:14:03.079
that. And they said that to get to that point
01:14:03.079 --> 01:14:10.979
was between 100 and 120 moves. Whoa, okay. And
01:14:10.979 --> 01:14:12.539
like with move, it can be like, yeah, just like
01:14:12.539 --> 01:14:14.539
you're on a wall and like, you know, 50 to 60
01:14:14.539 --> 01:14:17.239
moves per hand. That's like your optimal warmup,
01:14:17.260 --> 01:14:19.760
right? And so I think that just puts them into
01:14:19.760 --> 01:14:21.979
perspective of like, we probably don't do enough
01:14:21.979 --> 01:14:25.300
of, this is for specifically for pulleys. So
01:14:25.300 --> 01:14:27.619
being that pulleys are probably the most common
01:14:27.619 --> 01:14:30.800
adult injury that I see. So like 100 to 120 moves
01:14:30.800 --> 01:14:36.300
of like crimpy, like smaller edge. I guess. Yeah.
01:14:36.380 --> 01:14:37.819
I wouldn't call it like, like super small edge,
01:14:37.899 --> 01:14:39.420
but like any where you're like actually like
01:14:39.420 --> 01:14:42.520
engaging in. Yeah. Yeah. And so you can do that.
01:14:42.560 --> 01:14:44.300
You can, instead of just doing so many moves
01:14:44.300 --> 01:14:46.420
like that, you can do a lot on the hangboard,
01:14:46.439 --> 01:14:49.500
you know? And, and you know, like if you do like
01:14:49.500 --> 01:14:52.260
a seven on three off repeater, how can you classify
01:14:52.260 --> 01:14:54.420
seven seconds as like one move? Right. It's,
01:14:54.479 --> 01:14:56.760
it's so hard to like, then we're like getting
01:14:56.760 --> 01:14:59.140
super like, like picky with this type of stuff.
01:14:59.159 --> 01:15:03.119
But I think it just helps to pose a, a bit more
01:15:03.119 --> 01:15:07.109
of like a, a, Bigger picture that we more likely
01:15:07.109 --> 01:15:10.289
than not don't warm up the actual flexor tendon
01:15:10.289 --> 01:15:14.189
enough before we get into our performance part.
01:15:14.430 --> 01:15:17.250
So keep that in mind. Just do like a few hangs
01:15:17.250 --> 01:15:19.449
on the hangboard or if you're going to be, if
01:15:19.449 --> 01:15:21.729
most of your warmup happens on the wall, just
01:15:21.729 --> 01:15:23.289
make sure you're intentional about like pulling
01:15:23.289 --> 01:15:26.430
in. And you can like pull in and grab, like crimp
01:15:26.430 --> 01:15:28.409
a juggy hold, right? Just like you have to be
01:15:28.409 --> 01:15:30.649
intentional with it. What about like a, okay,
01:15:30.710 --> 01:15:33.539
what's like the most common comp injury? an exercise
01:15:33.539 --> 01:15:35.520
you would recommend for that? I think shoulders.
01:15:35.939 --> 01:15:39.640
Oh, yes. You're a fan of shoulders? Well, it's
01:15:39.640 --> 01:15:41.579
just that my shoulder is always injured. So if
01:15:41.579 --> 01:15:43.939
I could, you know, get an exercise for that,
01:15:43.979 --> 01:15:46.979
that'd be great. Yeah. Okay. So there's a ton
01:15:46.979 --> 01:15:49.500
of like shoulder rotator cuff strengthening stuff.
01:15:50.140 --> 01:15:52.420
I think I see a lot of people like do like the
01:15:52.420 --> 01:15:55.140
kind of like this stuff with the band or like
01:15:55.140 --> 01:15:59.319
external rotation. Those are all good for warming
01:15:59.319 --> 01:16:03.140
up those muscles to start firing. But I do think
01:16:03.140 --> 01:16:06.300
most of the time, shoulder injuries happen from
01:16:06.300 --> 01:16:10.140
dynamic movement or just moves that are more
01:16:10.140 --> 01:16:12.260
three -dimensional. And so what I mean by that
01:16:12.260 --> 01:16:14.319
is if you're at a Gaston and you're pulling,
01:16:14.560 --> 01:16:16.420
you're pulling this way, but gravity is pulling
01:16:16.420 --> 01:16:18.739
you down. So there's a lot of forces acting on
01:16:18.739 --> 01:16:22.460
the shoulder. And by doing just one move against
01:16:22.460 --> 01:16:25.380
resistance, you're just working one axis. one
01:16:25.380 --> 01:16:28.600
axis, right? And the shoulder moves in all three
01:16:28.600 --> 01:16:32.840
axes. So because it's such a movable joint, like
01:16:32.840 --> 01:16:35.199
fingers only bend, right? And extend. The shoulders
01:16:35.199 --> 01:16:37.739
can go forward, side, and then rotate, right?
01:16:37.819 --> 01:16:40.539
So because of that, it makes warming up the shoulder
01:16:40.539 --> 01:16:43.439
a little bit more nuanced and that you shouldn't
01:16:43.439 --> 01:16:46.779
just work one move at a time. Does that make
01:16:46.779 --> 01:16:48.239
sense? Like one move at a time being like, if
01:16:48.239 --> 01:16:50.060
you attach a band here and you go against the
01:16:50.060 --> 01:16:54.119
band, that's one axis, right? Right. So what
01:16:54.119 --> 01:16:58.920
I would suggest is taking like a band and like
01:16:58.920 --> 01:17:01.640
pushing against it. Like if there's like a loop
01:17:01.640 --> 01:17:03.779
or something like that, and then adding other
01:17:03.779 --> 01:17:05.680
movements. So like you can go up, you can go
01:17:05.680 --> 01:17:08.220
to the side, but doing the same type of motion
01:17:08.220 --> 01:17:09.899
of external rotation, because that's what you're
01:17:09.899 --> 01:17:11.899
using a lot of to keep you on the wall, but in
01:17:11.899 --> 01:17:14.739
different positions with movement. Oh, okay.
01:17:14.880 --> 01:17:16.460
I like that a lot. And that's a good one for
01:17:16.460 --> 01:17:19.460
injury prevention. Okay, perfect. And then going
01:17:19.460 --> 01:17:21.159
even a little bit further, like on the wall,
01:17:21.239 --> 01:17:25.439
like. Like do some like little jumps to jugs
01:17:25.439 --> 01:17:27.699
and just kind of like, or jump to a bar, right?
01:17:27.939 --> 01:17:29.979
Just the fact that you're like trying to activate
01:17:29.979 --> 01:17:34.960
with zero lag, right? All right. Well, that's
01:17:34.960 --> 01:17:36.960
all the questions I had for today then. Thanks
01:17:36.960 --> 01:17:40.140
for joining me. Any last minute like thoughts
01:17:40.140 --> 01:17:41.739
or words of wisdom you want to get out there?
01:17:42.079 --> 01:17:44.140
No, I think, no, this is really fun. I think
01:17:44.140 --> 01:17:49.430
just the more on if you want to be. like for
01:17:49.430 --> 01:17:51.229
the students or people that want to be in climbing
01:17:51.229 --> 01:17:54.630
PT. I think it's a really cool niche that I've
01:17:54.630 --> 01:17:57.649
built out for myself. And if that's something
01:17:57.649 --> 01:18:00.029
that you want to like follow, like for sure do.
01:18:00.109 --> 01:18:02.710
I think we need more climbing specific PTs. I'm
01:18:02.710 --> 01:18:05.989
hoping that this becomes a, I think the sport
01:18:05.989 --> 01:18:08.890
has grown a lot, but I hope it becomes like an
01:18:08.890 --> 01:18:12.869
NCAA sport at some point. And then when that
01:18:12.869 --> 01:18:14.329
happens, there's a lot more money in the game.
01:18:14.510 --> 01:18:18.010
And then, you know, we can actually. we should
01:18:18.010 --> 01:18:20.369
be having a lot more attention to like health
01:18:20.369 --> 01:18:23.329
of athletes and and so um hopefully this is the
01:18:23.329 --> 01:18:26.109
beginning of something really cool and um i'm
01:18:26.109 --> 01:18:27.869
glad that i'm taking part of it hopefully a little
01:18:27.869 --> 01:18:30.909
bit awesome okay and where can people find you
01:18:30.909 --> 01:18:33.869
uh so on instagram i'm at climbing .rehab and
01:18:33.869 --> 01:18:36.229
my website is climbingrehab .com super easy to
01:18:36.229 --> 01:18:38.489
remember nice handle i feel like that's that's
01:18:38.489 --> 01:18:41.750
a hard one to get yeah right yeah there's a little
01:18:41.750 --> 01:18:44.279
dot because i think i'm was taken yeah that makes
01:18:44.279 --> 01:18:46.680
sense that was kind of cool yeah okay cool well
01:18:46.680 --> 01:18:48.500
awesome thank you again it was amazing to talk
01:18:48.500 --> 01:18:50.479
to you awesome thank you so much that was fun
01:18:50.479 --> 01:18:53.100
thank you so much for making it to the end of
01:18:53.100 --> 01:18:55.539
the podcast don't forget to like and subscribe
01:18:55.539 --> 01:18:58.600
if you enjoyed otherwise you are a super big
01:18:58.600 --> 01:19:01.739
climber if you're listening on a podcasting platform
01:19:01.739 --> 01:19:04.520
i'd appreciate if you rate it five stars and
01:19:04.520 --> 01:19:07.619
you can continue the discussion on the free competition
01:19:07.619 --> 01:19:10.779
climbing discord linked in the description thanks
01:19:10.779 --> 01:19:14.840
again for listening Thank you.
