42: Ty Hardaway, IFSC Head of Belay
Ty has done it all: He’s been competition belaying, judging, and coaching for over 10 years, and he started the belay programs at USA climbing and the IFSC. In this episode, we’ll learn about all things belaying, get behind the scenes insight, and hear about how the scene has changed since the Olympics came into play, leading to some toxic parents.
Show Notes
Guest links:
Reference links:
Timestamps
Timestamps of discussion topics
0:00 - Intro
1:20 - Mad Rock Shoutout!!
2:08 - Coaching and belaying at USA youth nationals
7:36 - Getting into volunteer judging/belaying
11:35 - Good belaying vs bad belaying
15:40 - You need to train your neck!!
18:03 - Dangerous belay practices
23:49 - The pressure of belaying at world cups
29:29 - Athletes with specific belay requests
31:54 - Athletes who are hard to belay for
34:32 - Routesetting that makes belaying hard
37:28 - Being a speed starter
43:57 - Birmingham world games 2022
47:41 - HOT TAKE: Women are better belayers than men?!
51:25 - Paraclimbing belaying
54:28 - Manual speed climbing belaying?!
57:02 - Extra considerations for para belaying
59:37 - Changes in the sport - Olympics desperation
1:04:40 - The toxic youth scene
1:09:31 - Discord Q: Do belayers get a rundown of the route from setters?
1:10:24 - DISCORD Q: Have you ever seen an athlete or coach object to a belayer?
1:11:15 - DISCORD Q: Process for removing belayers mid comp?
1:13:28 - Ice climbing belaying?!?
1:16:03 - Where to find Ty
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WEBVTT
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Jakob Schubert told me, he said, I'd rather you
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drop me to the floor than short rope me. Instinctively,
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I dropped the speed starting module, grabbed
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the rope. He finished it. I got pulled over the
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PA system. I had burns in my hand. I may not
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know who's going to play the Olympics. It's one
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of those things where just, if that's your goal,
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you may want to reevaluate your goals. sobbing
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in the corner because they didn't make the cut
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to go to semis or finals and have a parent hover
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over them and said, well, you should have climbed
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better. Welcome to another episode of the That's
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Not Roll Climbing podcast. I'm your host, Jinni,
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and I'm excited to introduce my guest for today,
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Ty Hardaway. Ty has been around and he's done
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it all. He's been competition belaying, judging,
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and coaching for over 10 years, and he started
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the belay programs at USA Climbing and the IFSC.
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In this episode, we'll learn about all things
00:00:55.320 --> 00:00:58.000
belaying, get behind -the -scenes insight, and
00:00:58.000 --> 00:00:59.960
hear about how the scene has changed since the
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Olympics came into play, leading to some toxic
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parents. He has so much knowledge and just so
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many interesting little anecdotes, you'll understand
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why he's so beloved in the competition scene.
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I hope you enjoy this episode with Ty. Real quick,
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I'm excited to announce my new sponsor helping
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make this podcast episode possible, Mad Rock
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wearing them, like Oscar Beaudrin from Team Canada,
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and also... Me. This is the first time I've gotten
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to wear their shoes for an extended period of
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time, and I'm actually super impressed with the
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grip of their in -house rubber. And of course,
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the famous drone heel that everyone says is the
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cheat code to heel hooking small edges. Feel
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Back to the show. Are you getting ready for Youth
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Nationals in Portland? Yes, I am. In fact, I'm
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leaving tomorrow morning, very, very early, 6
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o 'clock Eastern time. Oh, no, I hate those.
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It's okay. I'm not paying for it. Oh, sure, but
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I'm waking up, I guess at like 4. Well, the worst
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is the flight they booked back for me so they
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don't have to pay for another night is Red Eye.
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Yeah, from the West Coast to the East Coast.
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I'm too old for that crap. I guess it's like
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flying to Europe, though. Yeah, but it's not
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quite long enough for a solid sleep. Exactly.
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Yeah, that's kind of why I don't go back to the
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East Coast very often. Oh, I'm glad you empathize.
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Where are you right now? Just in San Diego. Oh,
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I have good friends in San Diego. Awesome. It's
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a great place, yeah. Well, I was born in Los
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Angeles and I grew up in Claremont, so San Diego
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is like a cousin to me. Nice, yeah. Yeah. But
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I grew up in Pennsylvania, so I should go back
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every once in a while, but it's just, it's so
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far. Yeah. San Diego is a good place for anybody.
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That's cool. Oh yeah. That's so nice. Is there
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anything you need to like specifically mentally
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prepare for with going to youth nationals? Actually,
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yes. You know, I, my, my career has sustained
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in belaying because I've also become quite a
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a fitness person. I know it's really embarrassing
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thing to say, but I work out several times a
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week, but I also do a lot of balance and focus
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and just stillness exercises, which I think really
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helps my belaying career. The second part of
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Youth Nationals, I will coach. So I get to be
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a lot more, a lot more chill. The kids used to
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call me Coach Uncle Ty, which is cut. I think,
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oh yeah, you can see it. There's a sign right
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there that says cut. It's the Coach Uncle Ty,
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sorry. So yeah, this is going to be a lot of
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fun. Wait, what kind of kids do you coach? Are
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you part of a team? I am part of a team. I'm
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the head speed coach for Sport Rock and I have
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11 athletes going to this championship. It's
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a secret side hustle. the head speed coach at
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Sport Rock for four years, and I've coached speed
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going back to when my daughter was a competition
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climber. Wow. So have you speed climbed much?
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You know, some of the best coaches in sports
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don't actually participate actively in the sport.
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They are more theorists and students of said
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sport. I've tried it a couple times way back
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in the day, and every single one of my athletes
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would probably lap me several times at this point.
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I guess I don't know that many coaches, but I
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would think you would have to be at like a certain
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level or like maybe previously. Previously, one
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could say I was at a certain level. I mean, I've
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climbed. I've climbed for a very long time. And
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I think one of my historical touchstones is I
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started climbing in eighth grade. And for me,
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that was 1978. Whoa. Okay. Yeah. This was in
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Mr. Lashi's field studies class, a class we actually
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had in eighth grade. And we would, you know,
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do ropes and knots and, you know, talk about
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belaying and rappelling and stuff. Then we'd
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go up into the hills and do it. I'm surprised
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that you had a class in eighth grade for that.
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It was so rad. And then there were years and
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years where I didn't climb. And then when my
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kid was five. She said we were in Berkeley and
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she said, I want to go to a skate park and a
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climbing gym. So my friend Rich took us to both
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of those places. And she walked into Ironworks
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and she looked around and she said, I'm going
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to do this. And that's how it all started. It
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is how it all started because but she was too
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young to do it then at that point. So, you know,
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a little while later, she did the birthday party
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and then rec club and then team. And then she
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came off team as an independent climber. And
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she had, you know. She had a good career. Okay.
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So then when did you get into climbing after
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eighth grade? Off and on, I went with friends
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to like what were rudimentary climbing gyms.
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You know, some were just like cinder block walls
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with some cinder blocks missing and some holds
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glued. And some were like the early, there was
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early, you know, earth treks here in this area
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that, you know, my friend Al would take me to
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and other people would go to. You know, I really
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learned lead first. And that's basically all
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I do because I don't want to have the safety
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and comfort and the mental safety net of top
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rope. I don't want to know the difference. I
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just want to know that if I'm high on a clip
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and I fall, I'm going to fall. I don't want that
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to be an impediment. I'm kind of weird like that.
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Well, so are you saying you never top rope? Rarely,
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rarely, rarely top rope. I'd say, you know, nine
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out of ten times I'm going to, more than nine
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out of ten times it's going to be lead. And I've
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bouldered a little bit, but, you know, I'm old
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and things break and things hurt. I understand
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boulders. I've judged boulders to a very, very
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high level. And so then how did you get into
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volunteering? I'm assuming that's after your
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daughter started climbing? a local event, which
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is now called a qualifying event for youth. And
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she was maybe 11 or 12 or I forget what age.
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And it was a lot of parents talking about competition
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climbing and judging and belaying. And I decided,
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well, I think I'll help out so I can take my
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introvert itself and go do something else. And
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so I started judging first, which is pretty funny.
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And I've judged to a very high level, as I mentioned,
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all the way through every U .S. championship
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and primary boulder for, like, World Cup, which
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is an honor, a privilege, and just absolutely
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stunning thing to be able to do. But then after
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a while, I knew how to belay. I was a pretty
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good belayer. But I was at another comp, and,
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you know, they took the volunteers to the back,
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and my intention was to judge. And the person
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organizing it said, okay, belayers on this side,
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judges on this side. And this one guy kind of
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raised his hand. He goes, well, I know how to
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belay on paper. So my friend John took him and
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said, you're a judge. And he grabbed me and he
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said, you're a belayer. So that was my first
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competition belaying experience. Now I've done
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a lot. I probably am the highest mileage competition
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belayer, if not in the country, perhaps. close
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to on the planet i know a couple people have
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done it for years and years and years but yeah
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i've done belaying is what i do i consider myself
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in this activity to be a belayer sure yeah and
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i guess not even a judge either even though you've
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done world cup judging as well yeah i don't you
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know i'm a level three u .s judge and i've judged
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every series but i it's It's not what I identify
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as. Okay. Do you have any crazy judging stories
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from back in those days? I've judged through
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last year. I don't think I've judged this year,
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but I've judged. I was asked to be a finals judge
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at Youth National Championships last year, and
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I did a North American cup. You do it all. Yeah,
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because they know what they're going to get.
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Pretty dedicated to it. But crazy stories? Yeah,
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I was judging national team trials. And the person
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I was judging with, my secondary, was a parent
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first, which is fine. You know, you can be a
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parent first. But I looked down and I saw that
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she was texting scores to grandma. And then she
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started actively rooting for her child. very
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awkward because we're supposed to not be biased
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and such but it was like uh yeah let's uh let's
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tighten up the standards a little bit because
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you know anyone witnessing this could think well
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there there may be some sort of either focus
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lapse or bias lapse really sweet person really
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wonderful person but it's not the place to text
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grandma with the scores yeah okay how was this
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like recent or Yeah, it was a few years back.
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And I've had some really good mentors in judging.
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Like I think the first people I really judged
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with USA Climbing at a high level was like Tammy
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Pelican and John Kelly. And those are the people
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that brought me on. And then I just advanced
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from there and I got my certification and all
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of that stuff. I even have like a certified judge's
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shirt, which I'm extremely proud of. Well, I'm
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glad you are still proud of your judging background.
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I am proud of it. I think I'm pretty good at
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it. It's just, as one chases one's passions,
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I think belaying is where it's at for me. And
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if I don't judge, it opens up room for other
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people to come in and get that experience too.
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And you said that you think you're good at it.
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What makes a good judge versus a bad judge? And
00:11:41.610 --> 00:11:43.649
similarly with belaying, what makes a good belayer
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and bad belayer? focus in a relaxed manner. I've
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judged with people who I notice they're watching
00:11:54.509 --> 00:11:57.309
the action on another route than we're supposed
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to be watching the climber. And there's other
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people, and I'm not saying this in a derogatory
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fashion, but they're fans. They're fans first
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and then they're volunteers second. They're watching
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to see what the outcomes are. They're seeing
00:12:09.210 --> 00:12:12.149
how a particular climber is climbing at that
00:12:12.149 --> 00:12:13.950
point, whether they're directly in front of them
00:12:13.950 --> 00:12:17.259
or in a route around them. Or, you know, texting
00:12:17.259 --> 00:12:20.220
grandma scores, which, you know, I don't want
00:12:20.220 --> 00:12:22.059
to sound too critical about that, but it just
00:12:22.059 --> 00:12:26.100
took away from the judging. But what makes a
00:12:26.100 --> 00:12:29.340
good judge is someone who can kind of detach
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from being outcome oriented where everyone falls
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in the categories to just being able to relax
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and focus on one thing. You know, I've seen judges
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go up to a problem and kind of climb their way
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through it. When my philosophy as a judge, as
00:12:48.110 --> 00:12:51.230
a head judge, is focus on the start, you know,
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the four -point start, focus on control of the
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zone, focus on the top. We don't have to climb
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it. In fact, it's really exciting when someone
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absolutely breaks the beta and it's like, whoa,
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I didn't see that coming. But, you know, a lot
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of judges are eager. Someone will get to the
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top and they are clipboard up. Oh, they fell
00:13:12.029 --> 00:13:16.440
off. And notoriously, you know, I was a judge
00:13:16.440 --> 00:13:21.200
in 21, but this event, 21 World Cup, when Brooke
00:13:21.200 --> 00:13:24.879
won and Sean won too. But, you know, Yanya went
00:13:24.879 --> 00:13:28.159
up for a top and she kind of slid off and everyone
00:13:28.159 --> 00:13:31.179
was going absolutely nuts. But my clipboard stayed
00:13:31.179 --> 00:13:33.899
in my lap and people were mad that I didn't award
00:13:33.899 --> 00:13:38.179
the top. But upon appeal, it was not a top. She
00:13:38.179 --> 00:13:41.720
climbed it again. She got it. Sadly. When we
00:13:41.720 --> 00:13:46.039
do look at the outcome, she probably didn't perform
00:13:46.039 --> 00:13:50.399
as well as she wanted to. But you have to absolutely
00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:55.120
steel yourself to focus on the start, using the
00:13:55.120 --> 00:13:58.700
zone, or controlling the zone and controlling
00:13:58.700 --> 00:14:03.039
the top. You can't prematurely award something
00:14:03.039 --> 00:14:05.059
that didn't happen. Because internationally,
00:14:05.340 --> 00:14:08.039
appeals will come just flying in. They're like...
00:14:08.240 --> 00:14:11.700
They're like darts just coming at you. And I've
00:14:11.700 --> 00:14:16.759
sustained a lot of appeals and I've felt I've
00:14:16.759 --> 00:14:19.500
done a good job. I had one climber, you know,
00:14:19.559 --> 00:14:25.360
pretty famous climber. He got to the start and,
00:14:25.379 --> 00:14:30.059
you know, I said, hey, can you come? I didn't
00:14:30.059 --> 00:14:32.120
say it like that, but in essence was, can you
00:14:32.120 --> 00:14:35.059
come down? That wasn't a start. And he decided
00:14:35.059 --> 00:14:37.879
to argue it right there on the spot that, you
00:14:37.879 --> 00:14:40.899
know, I did start right. That was a start. You
00:14:40.899 --> 00:14:43.279
know, I'm going to sit here and appeal it. Well,
00:14:43.419 --> 00:14:47.059
his clot kept ticking. And then upon appeal,
00:14:47.240 --> 00:14:50.019
it was not a legal start. He could have just
00:14:50.019 --> 00:14:53.539
used that time to get the start. And the head
00:14:53.539 --> 00:14:56.539
IFC judge, the JP, said, hey, you know, you did
00:14:56.539 --> 00:14:58.279
a really good job. A lot of people would have
00:14:58.279 --> 00:15:05.100
just said, oh, okay, and let it go. IFSC events
00:15:05.100 --> 00:15:10.639
and for USA events are volunteers. The head judging
00:15:10.639 --> 00:15:13.299
officials are people that deploy and travel and
00:15:13.299 --> 00:15:16.100
are assigned to these things. But some people
00:15:16.100 --> 00:15:18.580
are fairly new at it and some people are very
00:15:18.580 --> 00:15:20.580
experienced at it. So there's a lot of variation.
00:15:21.100 --> 00:15:23.710
And then for belaying? What makes a good belayer,
00:15:23.730 --> 00:15:25.990
again, is, you know, there's a certain fitness
00:15:25.990 --> 00:15:28.129
level. There's a certain honesty you have to
00:15:28.129 --> 00:15:30.970
have with your body. If your neck is killing
00:15:30.970 --> 00:15:33.330
you and you haven't trained for looking up into
00:15:33.330 --> 00:15:35.769
the sky for hours, you have to be able to say,
00:15:35.909 --> 00:15:38.909
hey, can I go take a rest? Because once you're
00:15:38.909 --> 00:15:41.710
in pain, you're not going to belay as well. Well,
00:15:42.350 --> 00:15:45.029
wait, how do you train your neck? Is this like
00:15:45.029 --> 00:15:48.950
F1 training? Oh, pretty much, yeah. Wow. Specifically,
00:15:49.190 --> 00:15:52.250
what I do is there's an exercise I use with an
00:15:52.250 --> 00:15:56.309
elastic band. You basically put it behind your
00:15:56.309 --> 00:15:59.230
head, you pull tension, and you hold it for periods
00:15:59.230 --> 00:16:02.850
of time. And it's a calisthenic exercise that
00:16:02.850 --> 00:16:05.070
just trains the strength in your neck for holding
00:16:05.070 --> 00:16:08.289
your head looking straight up like an idiot.
00:16:08.750 --> 00:16:14.350
Wow. And we don't really use belay glasses. They're
00:16:14.350 --> 00:16:17.919
acceptable, but we don't use them. in high -level
00:16:17.919 --> 00:16:20.080
competitions, championships, and elite events,
00:16:20.159 --> 00:16:23.799
mostly because, and especially in close proximity,
00:16:23.919 --> 00:16:26.019
like quali rounds, there's people right next
00:16:26.019 --> 00:16:27.899
to you, there's climbers right next to your climbers.
00:16:29.019 --> 00:16:31.159
Cognitively, the glasses will lock you into one
00:16:31.159 --> 00:16:33.419
place, and your brain will say, oh, I'm focused
00:16:33.419 --> 00:16:36.059
on this, whereas there's things happening left,
00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:38.860
right, on the ground, left and right, that you
00:16:38.860 --> 00:16:42.080
really need to be aware of. So you'll see a lot
00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:44.940
of blares. in these close proximity situations.
00:16:45.179 --> 00:16:47.919
You will see them move before someone falls to
00:16:47.919 --> 00:16:50.559
their right, who may fall directly in there because
00:16:50.559 --> 00:16:53.840
they're processing not only their climber, but
00:16:53.840 --> 00:16:57.820
the climbers on the routes adjacent and the blares
00:16:57.820 --> 00:17:01.980
on the ground adjacent. It's headier than a lot
00:17:01.980 --> 00:17:06.319
of people know. And it's physically and mentally
00:17:06.319 --> 00:17:08.920
grueling at times, especially for long qualifying
00:17:08.920 --> 00:17:11.759
rounds. Yeah, how long are like qualifying rounds
00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:15.220
usually? Back in the day, we did like open nationals
00:17:15.220 --> 00:17:17.599
with like four belayers. And that was like six
00:17:17.599 --> 00:17:23.359
hours of nonstop belaying for four dudes. Now
00:17:23.359 --> 00:17:26.980
we try to deploy in the program working in pairs
00:17:26.980 --> 00:17:29.420
or working three people to two problems called
00:17:29.420 --> 00:17:33.079
the 3 -2. And, you know, rounds are typically,
00:17:33.140 --> 00:17:37.259
you know, two to four hours. But we're working
00:17:37.259 --> 00:17:41.039
in pairs and in trios now. So you have an opportunity
00:17:41.039 --> 00:17:44.630
to. to give your body a little bit of rest. And
00:17:44.630 --> 00:17:47.150
while you're resting, you're watching the other
00:17:47.150 --> 00:17:48.990
belayer to make sure they're not pulling a knot
00:17:48.990 --> 00:17:51.170
or that their bag hasn't fallen, things like
00:17:51.170 --> 00:17:55.650
that. But it is a way to, to relax the body.
00:17:56.369 --> 00:17:59.849
Interesting. Yeah. I had no idea. So yeah, you've
00:17:59.849 --> 00:18:02.990
been belaying for many years, seen a lot of volunteers
00:18:02.990 --> 00:18:06.869
belaying. What are some of like the most dangerous
00:18:06.869 --> 00:18:09.490
common belay practices you've seen at competitions?
00:18:09.910 --> 00:18:13.880
The most dangerous. ballet practices at competitions
00:18:13.880 --> 00:18:18.779
is just a lack of focus. A lack of focus will
00:18:18.779 --> 00:18:22.759
lead you down the path of trouble. You know,
00:18:22.779 --> 00:18:25.599
on one hand, during a climb, you don't want to
00:18:25.599 --> 00:18:27.720
short rope a person, but you also don't want
00:18:27.720 --> 00:18:30.160
to leave too much slack in for the first few
00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:33.400
clips. And I have had climbers, professional
00:18:33.400 --> 00:18:36.099
climbers. Jakob Schubert told me, he said, at
00:18:36.099 --> 00:18:39.779
world championships, he said, listen. And I'd
00:18:39.779 --> 00:18:42.819
belayed him before, so he was being very funny.
00:18:42.859 --> 00:18:45.220
He said, listen, I'd rather you drop me to the
00:18:45.220 --> 00:18:47.680
floor than short rope me. So I looked at him
00:18:47.680 --> 00:18:49.660
and I said, well, I can do that. And he just
00:18:49.660 --> 00:18:53.880
howled with laughter. It was a moment. But you
00:18:53.880 --> 00:18:58.460
have to protect the bottom where someone can
00:18:58.460 --> 00:19:02.839
deck. But you also have to be... very quick with
00:19:02.839 --> 00:19:04.700
giving slack on those. And then as they climb
00:19:04.700 --> 00:19:06.900
higher, you have to be able to give slack. I
00:19:06.900 --> 00:19:10.460
mean, we've seen recent world cups where there
00:19:10.460 --> 00:19:13.880
have been technical incidents because of rope
00:19:13.880 --> 00:19:16.400
control, which is something you don't want to
00:19:16.400 --> 00:19:20.160
have. And I'm friendly with the JP for that event.
00:19:20.259 --> 00:19:22.279
And we had discussions about it and he helped
00:19:22.279 --> 00:19:26.200
me shape some of the language for the IFSC belay
00:19:26.200 --> 00:19:30.980
program because you, it, it's the last thing.
00:19:31.630 --> 00:19:35.430
An event, a worldwide broadcast event needs is
00:19:35.430 --> 00:19:38.450
for there to be a technical because of the belaying.
00:19:38.730 --> 00:19:41.329
It's embarrassing to the belayers. It's embarrassing
00:19:41.329 --> 00:19:44.869
to the event. And it's not fair to the athlete
00:19:44.869 --> 00:19:49.009
who, in this case, had to climb it again. That
00:19:49.009 --> 00:19:52.230
is a grueling proposition, both mentally and
00:19:52.230 --> 00:19:55.529
physically. I guess what comes to mind with dangerous
00:19:55.529 --> 00:19:58.410
belaying is that incident that had happened.
00:19:59.200 --> 00:20:01.339
I guess it was probably a few months ago now.
00:20:01.400 --> 00:20:05.079
Yeah, I've seen the training exercise where the
00:20:05.079 --> 00:20:07.420
belayer was talking to another coach and the
00:20:07.420 --> 00:20:10.140
climber fell to the ground. Yeah. Is that what
00:20:10.140 --> 00:20:13.200
happened? Yeah, that's sad and unfortunate. You
00:20:13.200 --> 00:20:15.220
see at the beginning of that video, if we're
00:20:15.220 --> 00:20:18.119
talking about the same one, a belayer belaying
00:20:18.119 --> 00:20:20.859
with a gree -gree and another person comes into
00:20:20.859 --> 00:20:23.740
the frame and they began talking. And then at
00:20:23.740 --> 00:20:26.299
some point you just see splat. And it really,
00:20:26.420 --> 00:20:29.650
really... It's sad for everyone involved, and
00:20:29.650 --> 00:20:32.869
I did not immediately throw any blame to anyone,
00:20:33.009 --> 00:20:35.769
but I'm kind of a nerd, and so when I'm belaying
00:20:35.769 --> 00:20:38.369
someone at practice, it's pretty much the same
00:20:38.369 --> 00:20:42.069
belay I'm giving them in a competition. If someone
00:20:42.069 --> 00:20:43.910
comes and tries to talk to me, I'll say, not
00:20:43.910 --> 00:20:49.049
now. Yeah, decking is the worst. Of course it's
00:20:49.049 --> 00:20:50.650
the worst. Decking from height is the worst.
00:20:50.750 --> 00:20:52.650
I've seen it happen. I've been at comps where
00:20:52.650 --> 00:21:00.019
it's happened. It throws a real dark, heavy blanket
00:21:00.019 --> 00:21:03.619
over the entire affair. And it is, you know,
00:21:03.619 --> 00:21:06.180
for the most part, if you deck someone in a competition,
00:21:06.500 --> 00:21:09.480
that's basically the end of your career. You
00:21:09.480 --> 00:21:13.759
become essentially unbookable because no one's
00:21:13.759 --> 00:21:15.920
going to want to have you with that rep. I've
00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:18.240
had people that have close calls and like softer
00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:22.779
decks that have been put into kind of a retraining.
00:21:23.370 --> 00:21:25.869
regime to get back to that place and it messes
00:21:25.869 --> 00:21:29.049
with the belayer too you know well yeah i think
00:21:29.049 --> 00:21:32.150
in my last interview with noah he mentioned that
00:21:32.150 --> 00:21:35.990
soft decks are sometimes like inevitable yeah
00:21:35.990 --> 00:21:39.509
no you nailed it if if a soft deck basically
00:21:39.509 --> 00:21:42.150
means someone has come to the floor but very
00:21:42.150 --> 00:21:45.529
very softly because it was controlled if someone's
00:21:45.529 --> 00:21:47.710
pulling from the second to the third clip well
00:21:47.710 --> 00:21:50.549
we're giving rope and if they miss that clip
00:21:50.549 --> 00:21:56.369
and fall You have to be able to run that out,
00:21:56.410 --> 00:22:00.109
pull that out, have enough, know the rope in
00:22:00.109 --> 00:22:02.269
your system to control that, and they may touch
00:22:02.269 --> 00:22:05.789
the ground. I had one at Youth Nationals three
00:22:05.789 --> 00:22:08.789
years ago, and the person came down, and he said,
00:22:08.869 --> 00:22:14.089
whoa, thanks. And then I walked by the corral
00:22:14.089 --> 00:22:15.869
of setters, and they were all clapping, which
00:22:15.869 --> 00:22:19.089
was very kind. They saw what happened. They saw
00:22:19.089 --> 00:22:22.609
what it took for me not to. This was a hard one,
00:22:22.650 --> 00:22:25.430
too, because there was basically these huge volumes
00:22:25.430 --> 00:22:28.750
at face level. So I had to bring him under that.
00:22:28.869 --> 00:22:32.569
So it was kind of a soft deck, but it was controlled.
00:22:32.690 --> 00:22:36.829
And, you know, some parents or some spectators
00:22:36.829 --> 00:22:40.109
may not understand that a person coming to the
00:22:40.109 --> 00:22:44.299
floor. was not only inevitable, but the right
00:22:44.299 --> 00:22:47.940
choice. But it's the uncontrolled, either slammed
00:22:47.940 --> 00:22:50.880
into the wall or slammed into the floor, that
00:22:50.880 --> 00:22:55.700
are real career breakers. You've seen that at
00:22:55.700 --> 00:22:59.259
competitions? Yeah. Oh, jeez. I have. One of
00:22:59.259 --> 00:23:01.700
the worst things you can be as a belayer is cocky.
00:23:02.960 --> 00:23:06.430
I've had belayers who... want to emulate their
00:23:06.430 --> 00:23:09.910
favorite TV belayer and do some things stylistically
00:23:09.910 --> 00:23:12.210
that are beyond their control. And I've seen
00:23:12.210 --> 00:23:16.789
athletes drop to the floor. There was one at
00:23:16.789 --> 00:23:18.970
an event a couple of years ago where the belayer
00:23:18.970 --> 00:23:23.869
was a little cocky and the person fell and they
00:23:23.869 --> 00:23:26.009
couldn't control it. Well, they not only got
00:23:26.009 --> 00:23:31.190
third -degree burns on their hands, but the athlete
00:23:31.190 --> 00:23:35.220
was injured. And there's nothing... anyone wants
00:23:35.220 --> 00:23:39.079
is anyone injured athlete or Blair or volunteer
00:23:39.079 --> 00:23:43.839
because it's just it's sad it's it's it's sad
00:23:43.839 --> 00:23:47.319
especially when there are mechanisms in place
00:23:47.319 --> 00:23:50.099
and training in place to mitigate some of that
00:23:50.099 --> 00:23:53.279
hazard You mentioned you belayed at World Champs
00:23:53.279 --> 00:23:57.799
in 2023 and also the Copper World Cup, two super
00:23:57.799 --> 00:24:01.339
big events. Do you feel extra pressure or stress
00:24:01.339 --> 00:24:03.380
when you're belaying at these like World Cup
00:24:03.380 --> 00:24:07.779
level events? There is a, you know, you fly a
00:24:07.779 --> 00:24:10.299
big chunk around the world, you wake up and you
00:24:10.299 --> 00:24:12.559
go to the venue and there's that little voice
00:24:12.559 --> 00:24:16.720
saying. can you still do this and then you get
00:24:16.720 --> 00:24:19.339
in the flow you get your processes together you
00:24:19.339 --> 00:24:21.400
resort to your training and it's like oh yeah
00:24:21.400 --> 00:24:24.019
i'm really good at this and other people see
00:24:24.019 --> 00:24:25.599
it and they're like wow you're really good at
00:24:25.599 --> 00:24:28.240
this we've never met you i don't speak your language
00:24:28.240 --> 00:24:32.000
but hey nice belang uh there is pressure there's
00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:34.920
pressure for any there's pressure for any event
00:24:34.920 --> 00:24:36.819
there's additional pressure for any broadcast
00:24:36.819 --> 00:24:39.119
event there's any there's additional pressure
00:24:39.119 --> 00:24:42.880
for any championship event and you know ifsc
00:24:42.880 --> 00:24:45.819
world cup and world championships are some of
00:24:45.819 --> 00:24:49.240
the biggest so i'm trying to get like a different
00:24:49.240 --> 00:24:52.180
perspective on uh the world cups and the world
00:24:52.180 --> 00:24:55.460
champs uh since you're kind of in the behind
00:24:55.460 --> 00:24:58.720
the scenes area a lot so as a belayer are you
00:24:58.720 --> 00:25:01.140
allowed in iso while they're warming up and stuff
00:25:01.140 --> 00:25:04.359
the belayer first interacts with the with the
00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:07.799
with the athletes in the call zone. So that's
00:25:07.799 --> 00:25:10.359
where they come out of ISO and they sit in chairs
00:25:10.359 --> 00:25:12.740
and they tie in and they continue their preparations.
00:25:13.220 --> 00:25:16.819
It's kind of a sacred place. And, you know, the
00:25:16.819 --> 00:25:19.519
right belay team will not start talking them
00:25:19.519 --> 00:25:23.119
up, talking to the athletes like fans. Hey, you
00:25:23.119 --> 00:25:25.000
know, I've seen you and, you know, can I get
00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:27.920
your autograph? Yeah. It's a place where the
00:25:27.920 --> 00:25:29.819
first thing I'm going to say to an athlete is,
00:25:29.859 --> 00:25:32.940
hi, I'm Ty, I'm your belayer. I've already looked
00:25:32.940 --> 00:25:36.009
over their system. But I will say, your harness
00:25:36.009 --> 00:25:38.869
looks great, your knot looks great. I will show
00:25:38.869 --> 00:25:41.289
them my side of their system, show them that
00:25:41.289 --> 00:25:44.470
my carabiner is locked, and I'll give additional
00:25:44.470 --> 00:25:46.869
information like, when it's your time to climb,
00:25:46.990 --> 00:25:48.869
I will walk with you out to the field of play.
00:25:49.009 --> 00:25:51.309
I may even say, if it's warranted, I'm going
00:25:51.309 --> 00:25:54.230
to start on your left or right or whatever. But
00:25:54.230 --> 00:25:57.089
other than that, other than 15 seconds, I'm not
00:25:57.089 --> 00:26:02.259
talking to the athletes. Some athletes will engage
00:26:02.259 --> 00:26:04.539
a Blair. Most are just very focused and very
00:26:04.539 --> 00:26:08.019
quiet. They may talk among themselves. But there
00:26:08.019 --> 00:26:10.119
are times when an athlete will engage a Blair.
00:26:10.180 --> 00:26:13.660
Like one of my best memories is at Copra where,
00:26:13.819 --> 00:26:19.079
you know, Jesse Pills looks over in semifinals
00:26:19.079 --> 00:26:21.460
and goes, hey, do you remember belaying me in
00:26:21.460 --> 00:26:23.960
Birmingham? I'm like, yes, I do. And she goes,
00:26:24.039 --> 00:26:26.400
cool. And that was it. That was our discussion.
00:26:27.079 --> 00:26:30.380
Good discussion. Any, like, things you've seen
00:26:30.380 --> 00:26:34.019
from, I guess, like, the ISO area or in between,
00:26:34.079 --> 00:26:37.220
like, the call zone and getting out into the
00:26:37.220 --> 00:26:41.319
stage that stand out to you? Yeah, very famous
00:26:41.319 --> 00:26:42.980
athletes showing up to the call zone without
00:26:42.980 --> 00:26:47.039
their harnesses. And it's like, you know, you
00:26:47.039 --> 00:26:49.079
could tie in now, but you don't have a harness.
00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:52.519
You know, very light and fun and, oh, gosh, and
00:26:52.519 --> 00:26:54.819
they run away and they come back. But it's also
00:26:54.819 --> 00:26:58.589
my job to help them chill out, you know. I'm
00:26:58.589 --> 00:27:00.750
in no hurry. We're doing this early. Take your
00:27:00.750 --> 00:27:04.410
time. Put your harness on. There was a elite
00:27:04.410 --> 00:27:08.029
championship finals in the U .S. where, you know,
00:27:08.029 --> 00:27:10.269
a big production thing, you know, the producers
00:27:10.269 --> 00:27:12.349
would say, come on. They'd open a curtain. We'd
00:27:12.349 --> 00:27:14.829
walk out and the athlete would start climbing.
00:27:14.910 --> 00:27:18.970
Well, I came to do my buddy check with my athlete
00:27:18.970 --> 00:27:21.349
and I'm like, you know, we're in no hurry, but
00:27:21.349 --> 00:27:23.849
you've tied your rope through the handle of the
00:27:23.849 --> 00:27:26.410
rope bag. So take your, it's like, oh my gosh,
00:27:26.470 --> 00:27:29.059
oh my gosh. It's like, no. It's okay. Take your
00:27:29.059 --> 00:27:32.319
time. We are in no hurry. The curtain opens,
00:27:32.500 --> 00:27:34.220
the production people are waving, and I'm like,
00:27:34.299 --> 00:27:37.579
one second. So we came out a little late, but
00:27:37.579 --> 00:27:41.900
I hope we brought the anxiety down a little bit.
00:27:41.900 --> 00:27:44.940
This was the same championship where I had been
00:27:44.940 --> 00:27:47.720
assured that all of the ropes had been flaked
00:27:47.720 --> 00:27:51.660
between rounds, and I got out with Jesse Gruber,
00:27:51.700 --> 00:27:53.700
and before he got on the wall, I pulled out a
00:27:53.700 --> 00:27:57.460
knot. And the rope, my rope handler ran out and
00:27:57.460 --> 00:27:59.920
he's like, a knot, a knot. I'm like, okay. And
00:27:59.920 --> 00:28:02.559
I don't know why I did this, but I remember,
00:28:02.640 --> 00:28:06.160
and you could see it on the video. I turned to
00:28:06.160 --> 00:28:08.819
the judges and I said, I did this. I made the
00:28:08.819 --> 00:28:10.859
timeout sign. There's no timeout sign in climbing.
00:28:11.000 --> 00:28:13.920
I said, timeout. And I looked at the knot and
00:28:13.920 --> 00:28:16.799
I pulled it open and I put it over Jesse and
00:28:16.799 --> 00:28:18.420
he just walked through it and the knot was gone.
00:28:18.779 --> 00:28:22.559
And the best feeling was the athletes who are
00:28:22.559 --> 00:28:25.319
already in kiss and cry. Just started clapping
00:28:25.319 --> 00:28:28.339
like that was cool. And then he got up on the
00:28:28.339 --> 00:28:31.539
wall and he won the cup. But it's things like
00:28:31.539 --> 00:28:35.119
that that perhaps a belayer with less experience
00:28:35.119 --> 00:28:38.940
may get a little panicky over or may think about
00:28:38.940 --> 00:28:43.390
it as it's as as. The climber is climbing. I
00:28:43.390 --> 00:28:46.190
always say you have to be a little sociopathic
00:28:46.190 --> 00:28:50.630
and put a firewall between your emotions and
00:28:50.630 --> 00:28:53.150
the skills that you bring to this. Yeah, I could
00:28:53.150 --> 00:28:56.390
see you being like a calming presence. So I think
00:28:56.390 --> 00:28:59.730
it does suit you. I try to be, and a lot of the
00:28:59.730 --> 00:29:03.109
people that have gotten the highest in this activity
00:29:03.109 --> 00:29:06.430
are, it's like firefighters when they get to
00:29:06.430 --> 00:29:08.529
the scene. You don't see them like rushing around.
00:29:08.690 --> 00:29:11.819
They walk. They do what they need to do and they
00:29:11.819 --> 00:29:13.900
resort to their training. Not to say that we're
00:29:13.900 --> 00:29:16.099
anywhere near as important as a firefighter,
00:29:16.099 --> 00:29:20.740
but there's that, there's that, there's a slowing
00:29:20.740 --> 00:29:23.980
down of the mind and of the body to, to, to do
00:29:23.980 --> 00:29:26.839
this right. And part of that is to show the athlete
00:29:26.839 --> 00:29:29.559
that you're not freaking out. Yeah. And I've
00:29:29.559 --> 00:29:32.910
seen layers freak out. Do athletes ever give
00:29:32.910 --> 00:29:35.970
you specific requests for how they want their
00:29:35.970 --> 00:29:38.549
belay to be handled? Please excuse this brief
00:29:38.549 --> 00:29:40.490
intermission, but if you're interested in deleted
00:29:40.490 --> 00:29:42.450
scenes from this episode where we hear about
00:29:42.450 --> 00:29:44.970
the hardest belays he's had to do, his thoughts
00:29:44.970 --> 00:29:47.750
on wearing helmets in competition, and more,
00:29:47.930 --> 00:29:50.329
do consider helping support this podcast on Patreon.
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Some other perks include a membership pin shipped
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00:29:58.950 --> 00:30:01.279
more to come. The proceeds go up. back into the
00:30:01.279 --> 00:30:03.740
podcast to help me break even, and they help
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00:30:06.660 --> 00:30:09.339
like to help out non -monetarily, liking, commenting,
00:30:09.480 --> 00:30:12.619
and sharing helps a great deal as well. Back
00:30:12.619 --> 00:30:15.319
to the show. Yeah, they do. There are people
00:30:15.319 --> 00:30:18.779
that have either been dropped before or just
00:30:18.779 --> 00:30:21.019
do not like the experience of following. They'll
00:30:21.019 --> 00:30:24.119
say, can you lower me really slowly? Sure, of
00:30:24.119 --> 00:30:26.720
course. That's no problem. There's athletes where
00:30:26.720 --> 00:30:30.180
you get to the wall. One of the things we try
00:30:30.180 --> 00:30:33.000
to do is vet these climbs to know which is the
00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:36.319
most likely side an athlete will make that first
00:30:36.319 --> 00:30:39.240
clip. So we will put the rope on their hip with
00:30:39.240 --> 00:30:40.960
just a little bit of pressure so they know where
00:30:40.960 --> 00:30:43.460
the rope is. Some athletes will say, can you
00:30:43.460 --> 00:30:46.380
start on the other side? Sure, no problem. But
00:30:46.380 --> 00:30:48.880
the first opportunity was to give them the same
00:30:48.880 --> 00:30:51.579
experience I gave everyone else. So they can
00:30:51.579 --> 00:30:53.220
call an audible and say, can you start on the
00:30:53.220 --> 00:30:56.579
other side? It may look ridiculous as we do this
00:30:56.579 --> 00:30:58.980
do -si -do on the field of play. But if that's
00:30:58.980 --> 00:31:01.400
what they want, that's fine. At some youth qualifying
00:31:01.400 --> 00:31:04.619
events, an athlete will throw the rhythm off
00:31:04.619 --> 00:31:06.299
a little bit by throwing the rope over their
00:31:06.299 --> 00:31:09.700
shoulder or putting it between their legs. You
00:31:09.700 --> 00:31:13.480
know, over the shoulder is not common in competition
00:31:13.480 --> 00:31:17.799
climbing. They typically get to a point and they'll
00:31:17.799 --> 00:31:20.779
drop it to exactly where we wanted it to be in
00:31:20.779 --> 00:31:22.940
the first place. But between the legs, it's just
00:31:22.940 --> 00:31:24.619
dangerous. You don't want them falling on one,
00:31:24.700 --> 00:31:27.289
two, sometimes three because they will... They
00:31:27.289 --> 00:31:29.849
split themselves directly in half and will have
00:31:29.849 --> 00:31:31.650
to get... You don't want to fall on the rope
00:31:31.650 --> 00:31:34.970
between your legs. We call it flossing. Oh, okay.
00:31:35.150 --> 00:31:39.309
I do not lead climb enough to know what the issue
00:31:39.309 --> 00:31:41.690
is. Most comp athletes will keep it to one side
00:31:41.690 --> 00:31:43.890
or the other. You don't want to fall with that
00:31:43.890 --> 00:31:47.269
between their legs. You could end up with just
00:31:47.269 --> 00:31:50.789
a rope burn on your legs or it could be more
00:31:50.789 --> 00:31:53.430
serious pain and or damage. And I've seen it
00:31:53.430 --> 00:31:56.849
happen. And it's not great. Yeah, are there any
00:31:56.849 --> 00:32:00.289
athletes who climb in a way that you find difficult
00:32:00.289 --> 00:32:05.130
to belay? Yes, some athletes. And the benefit
00:32:05.130 --> 00:32:08.970
of doing what I do at the levels that I do it
00:32:08.970 --> 00:32:13.069
is you see, you're the closest to seeing some
00:32:13.069 --> 00:32:16.750
of the most beautiful climbing on the planet.
00:32:16.829 --> 00:32:20.049
Just gorgeous climbing, incredible feats of strength,
00:32:20.210 --> 00:32:24.880
body movement that... is unbelievable. And some
00:32:24.880 --> 00:32:26.380
people look like they're going to fall every
00:32:26.380 --> 00:32:29.519
move. And as a player, you're trying to be cool,
00:32:29.539 --> 00:32:31.519
but you're like, Oh, your body is reflectively
00:32:31.519 --> 00:32:33.660
like just jumping at, Oh, they're good. Oh no,
00:32:33.759 --> 00:32:36.160
they didn't fall. And you know, there's a couple
00:32:36.160 --> 00:32:38.119
of climbers where we've discussed among ourselves
00:32:38.119 --> 00:32:42.299
that we have nicknames for that. It's just like,
00:32:42.319 --> 00:32:44.880
they look like they're going to fall on every
00:32:44.880 --> 00:32:50.960
move and it's hilarious. And, you know, backstage,
00:32:51.140 --> 00:32:54.440
we just like laugh at each other, like really
00:32:54.440 --> 00:32:57.099
had you working out there. So what's worse, someone
00:32:57.099 --> 00:32:58.740
who looks like they're always going to fall or
00:32:58.740 --> 00:33:00.500
someone where you have no idea when they're about
00:33:00.500 --> 00:33:02.619
to fall? I think someone that looks like they're
00:33:02.619 --> 00:33:05.000
going to fall on every move because it starts,
00:33:05.059 --> 00:33:08.640
you start using resources both mentally and physically
00:33:08.640 --> 00:33:12.700
to prepare for that. Unexpected falls are what
00:33:12.700 --> 00:33:17.700
we train for. Weird. people that get themselves
00:33:17.700 --> 00:33:22.339
into a bit of a weird trap and weird beta those
00:33:22.339 --> 00:33:26.759
are the hard ones to to mitigate because if you
00:33:26.759 --> 00:33:29.900
could mic me you or a thought balloon it would
00:33:29.900 --> 00:33:35.039
be like please make that clip or don't fall here
00:33:35.039 --> 00:33:37.539
you know because it's gonna it's gonna wrap you're
00:33:37.539 --> 00:33:40.920
gonna spin there's a lot of calculations yeah
00:33:40.920 --> 00:33:45.579
if they have to like climb down a bit or go backwards.
00:33:46.079 --> 00:33:49.940
There was a gnarly move. It was either qualies
00:33:49.940 --> 00:33:54.359
or semis at Bern where it was like third to fourth
00:33:54.359 --> 00:33:58.700
clip. The male athletes had to get onto a volume,
00:33:58.839 --> 00:34:02.779
turn around, come back out, and then move up
00:34:02.779 --> 00:34:05.559
to clip. And it's like there are portions of
00:34:05.559 --> 00:34:08.340
that where if you just fell, if you just slipped,
00:34:08.400 --> 00:34:10.519
if it just happened, you're going head first
00:34:10.519 --> 00:34:12.829
into the wall. headfirst backwards into the wall,
00:34:12.929 --> 00:34:15.750
unless I just throw slack at it, but then I'm
00:34:15.750 --> 00:34:18.530
bringing you down super low. And those are the
00:34:18.530 --> 00:34:21.570
constant calculations that we have to make while
00:34:21.570 --> 00:34:24.570
also looking at times like we're bored. I mean,
00:34:24.630 --> 00:34:28.550
I don't mean we are bored, but we're trying to
00:34:28.550 --> 00:34:31.070
show that things are under control to not only
00:34:31.070 --> 00:34:34.980
the athletes, but to the viewing audience. Are
00:34:34.980 --> 00:34:37.039
there any moves that routes that are set that
00:34:37.039 --> 00:34:39.960
you like kind of see and you're just like, oh,
00:34:40.019 --> 00:34:41.920
this is going to make things difficult? Yeah.
00:34:42.000 --> 00:34:47.480
Like, you know, a dino mid -climb, we're seeing
00:34:47.480 --> 00:34:52.539
more down climbing up over, down and then back
00:34:52.539 --> 00:34:57.099
up. So you may remember an event a couple of
00:34:57.099 --> 00:34:59.380
years ago. I forget where it was at, but the
00:34:59.380 --> 00:35:03.539
entire podium fell into the rope. It was Yanya,
00:35:03.639 --> 00:35:05.880
Brooke, and Jesse. Yes, I remember that. They
00:35:05.880 --> 00:35:08.179
all kicked into the rope. And, you know, there's
00:35:08.179 --> 00:35:10.820
a lot of debate on whether that was an aid to
00:35:10.820 --> 00:35:14.619
them or not, for them not to fall off. But it's
00:35:14.619 --> 00:35:17.679
moves like that that if you don't really take
00:35:17.679 --> 00:35:20.940
a look at it and talk to the setters who set
00:35:20.940 --> 00:35:25.340
it, it may catch you by surprise. So mid -route
00:35:25.340 --> 00:35:29.920
dinos. Huge volumes at the bottom where people
00:35:29.920 --> 00:35:33.619
might fall into and down climbing. I had this
00:35:33.619 --> 00:35:36.239
traverse move at championships in 2018 where
00:35:36.239 --> 00:35:40.159
it was like third to fourth clips that the climbers
00:35:40.159 --> 00:35:43.900
went up, traveled like eight feet across a volume,
00:35:44.039 --> 00:35:48.340
then up and then back to the clip. So there's
00:35:48.340 --> 00:35:51.019
a huge amount of slack as they traverse to get
00:35:51.019 --> 00:35:54.440
to the next move, to get back to the next clip.
00:35:54.719 --> 00:35:58.750
And those are hairy. And you have to be prepared
00:35:58.750 --> 00:36:01.750
for someone falling on those. So going back to
00:36:01.750 --> 00:36:04.510
that one where you said that the three podium
00:36:04.510 --> 00:36:08.969
finishers had got their, I think it was their
00:36:08.969 --> 00:36:11.030
leg caught in the rope? Yeah, they all caught
00:36:11.030 --> 00:36:13.769
their leg on the same rope. How would you have
00:36:13.769 --> 00:36:18.090
handled that differently? Not to criticize anyone,
00:36:18.250 --> 00:36:21.170
but it may have just been inevitable that that
00:36:21.170 --> 00:36:23.809
move ended up in that. But I think it's important
00:36:23.809 --> 00:36:30.489
that when... When the officials look at the event
00:36:30.489 --> 00:36:33.869
video, which will show the entire route, what
00:36:33.869 --> 00:36:35.969
happened with the belayer, what happened with
00:36:35.969 --> 00:36:39.050
the athlete, that there's sufficient rope that
00:36:39.050 --> 00:36:46.170
no one can call it aid. In Wuzhang, there was
00:36:46.170 --> 00:36:48.570
a very similar one where there was a down climb
00:36:48.570 --> 00:36:51.409
where there was controversy whether the climber
00:36:51.409 --> 00:36:54.349
was aided. It's just... If they look at the video,
00:36:54.429 --> 00:36:57.690
there has to be a bend in the rope from the ground
00:36:57.690 --> 00:37:00.969
to show that, nope, it was never aid, or same
00:37:00.969 --> 00:37:04.710
with short roping, that it was never short. You
00:37:04.710 --> 00:37:07.409
know, I had a climber in 2019, Open Championships,
00:37:07.550 --> 00:37:11.230
very famous climber, was up about 10 clips on
00:37:11.230 --> 00:37:13.610
a very high climb, pulling up the rope, pulling
00:37:13.610 --> 00:37:15.429
up the rope, and looked down at me like, what's
00:37:15.429 --> 00:37:18.309
the deal? And there was no way for me to say,
00:37:18.349 --> 00:37:21.489
you're standing on the rope. But if you look
00:37:21.489 --> 00:37:23.630
at the video, if there were to be an appeal,
00:37:23.889 --> 00:37:27.289
there was a definite break in my rope. It was
00:37:27.289 --> 00:37:29.730
not straight. There was no way I could short
00:37:29.730 --> 00:37:33.449
rope that climber. Okay. And then I think last
00:37:33.449 --> 00:37:36.210
thing about like IFSC comps that you've done,
00:37:36.369 --> 00:37:39.630
you also mentioned to me that you're an international
00:37:39.630 --> 00:37:43.969
speed starter. I have no idea what that is. Never
00:37:43.969 --> 00:37:46.050
heard of it. I'll just go with national speed
00:37:46.050 --> 00:37:49.630
starter, but I've done IFSC events. There's someone
00:37:49.630 --> 00:37:53.630
that says go. There's, it's not, you know, there's
00:37:53.630 --> 00:37:57.230
sit -walking. The device makes the three tones
00:37:57.230 --> 00:38:00.329
and then they go. But there's a human that is
00:38:00.329 --> 00:38:03.670
both traffic cop, come onto the field of play,
00:38:03.889 --> 00:38:08.269
you're clipped in, you're, you know, I'm the
00:38:08.269 --> 00:38:10.369
person that says at some of these bigger events,
00:38:10.510 --> 00:38:13.869
at your marks. And then once everyone's ready,
00:38:13.969 --> 00:38:17.190
I press the button for the tones to begin. Ready.
00:38:17.670 --> 00:38:22.760
Beep. I've been belaying for a million years,
00:38:22.880 --> 00:38:27.059
and I'm very comfortable with belaying. I'm a
00:38:27.059 --> 00:38:28.800
pretty good judge because I've worked at being
00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:31.960
a pretty good judge. There's nothing more harrowing
00:38:31.960 --> 00:38:38.219
than an IFSC broadcast speed finals because you
00:38:38.219 --> 00:38:40.739
have to do it right. Well, what could go wrong?
00:38:41.230 --> 00:38:43.869
The worst thing that could go wrong is you can
00:38:43.869 --> 00:38:47.110
lapse after doing this for hours, and then as
00:38:47.110 --> 00:38:49.489
both climbers are at the wall testing their pads,
00:38:49.670 --> 00:38:53.429
you start the sequence. And neither are clipped
00:38:53.429 --> 00:38:57.530
in, which is why I've added the words, the quiet
00:38:57.530 --> 00:39:00.929
words, A clipped, B clipped, as part of the routine
00:39:00.929 --> 00:39:02.929
to know that I've checked that they're clipped.
00:39:03.010 --> 00:39:07.469
And then I start the process. That could be a
00:39:07.469 --> 00:39:11.670
disaster because... I think the only way people
00:39:11.670 --> 00:39:13.769
have been seriously, seriously hurt with auto
00:39:13.769 --> 00:39:15.789
belay is when they were not clipped into the
00:39:15.789 --> 00:39:20.710
auto belay. Yeah. With the international speed
00:39:20.710 --> 00:39:23.789
timing equipment, if someone false start and
00:39:23.789 --> 00:39:27.070
false starts and they cannot run that race and
00:39:27.070 --> 00:39:29.809
the other person is still running it for time,
00:39:29.809 --> 00:39:33.769
you know, qualities, if you don't lock out the
00:39:33.769 --> 00:39:35.630
other lane, it will give a false start tone.
00:39:35.869 --> 00:39:37.730
And then the climber's like, okay, now you're
00:39:37.730 --> 00:39:40.880
getting in my headspace because You didn't do
00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:43.619
it right. You just have to do it right every
00:39:43.619 --> 00:39:47.219
time. One of the hardest parts of it is when
00:39:47.219 --> 00:39:50.599
you say, at your marks, and they go to the wall,
00:39:50.679 --> 00:39:54.079
is determining when to start ready. Some climbers
00:39:54.079 --> 00:39:56.699
will go to the wall and visibly show they're
00:39:56.699 --> 00:39:59.840
ready. And some will kind of fidget and move
00:39:59.840 --> 00:40:02.360
and fidget and move. And I had one guy who would
00:40:02.360 --> 00:40:05.099
always touch his hair first. You have to learn
00:40:05.099 --> 00:40:07.239
those things very quickly and qualities to know
00:40:07.239 --> 00:40:11.019
how to start them appropriately. Huh. Okay. It's
00:40:11.019 --> 00:40:13.059
harrowing. Yeah, I never thought about that.
00:40:13.199 --> 00:40:14.820
Yeah, because some people have like their whole,
00:40:14.920 --> 00:40:17.420
their routines, I guess. Very common in speed
00:40:17.420 --> 00:40:20.159
climbing. They have their routines at assembly,
00:40:20.380 --> 00:40:22.539
which is the little line where they're clipped
00:40:22.539 --> 00:40:24.599
in and they do their chalking and their stretching
00:40:24.599 --> 00:40:26.619
and their breathing. And they have their routines
00:40:26.619 --> 00:40:29.519
at the wall. And I think a lot of that experience,
00:40:29.699 --> 00:40:34.389
you know, for the athletes that I coach. Almost
00:40:34.389 --> 00:40:36.989
every practice is like a comp simulation so that
00:40:36.989 --> 00:40:40.489
they can go to any venue, any wall and just do
00:40:40.489 --> 00:40:43.550
the same thing. Well, so have you ever messed
00:40:43.550 --> 00:40:46.869
it up? I have. I did make a mistake once. Oh,
00:40:46.949 --> 00:40:50.389
what happened there? Qualifying back in 2021
00:40:50.389 --> 00:40:55.289
World Cup, a climber fall started. And then so
00:40:55.289 --> 00:40:58.010
the next climber got to run for time. And it
00:40:58.010 --> 00:41:01.230
was, again, referencing Jakob, when everyone
00:41:01.230 --> 00:41:04.260
who went to the Olympics had to do speed. I didn't
00:41:04.260 --> 00:41:06.960
lock out the other lane. The example I just gave
00:41:06.960 --> 00:41:10.039
you. And I said, ready. And it gave false start
00:41:10.039 --> 00:41:14.679
tones. And he looked at me like. And that he's
00:41:14.679 --> 00:41:18.400
right. I blew it. So that was my mistake. Wait,
00:41:18.440 --> 00:41:20.579
so I guess I don't really understand what it
00:41:20.579 --> 00:41:23.599
means to lock it out. On the start module, you
00:41:23.599 --> 00:41:27.420
have to take that speed pad where there's no
00:41:27.420 --> 00:41:32.130
human offline. Else it will. It will give a false
00:41:32.130 --> 00:41:35.690
start tone. I see. So you have to run it as a
00:41:35.690 --> 00:41:41.010
one lane run as opposed to a race with two. So
00:41:41.010 --> 00:41:44.349
it was Jakob who was doing the speed? Yeah. He
00:41:44.349 --> 00:41:47.750
looked at me like, come on, Rook. Yeah. I've
00:41:47.750 --> 00:41:49.650
really been doing this for a long time. I'm so
00:41:49.650 --> 00:41:53.929
sorry. But you have to rebound. So did he get
00:41:53.929 --> 00:41:57.050
to... I guess go again? Yeah, I just had to reset
00:41:57.050 --> 00:42:00.070
it and then, you know, he did not forfeit anything.
00:42:00.190 --> 00:42:02.610
But for me, I don't want to get in anyone's head
00:42:02.610 --> 00:42:06.449
because of a mistake. You know, there are times
00:42:06.449 --> 00:42:09.090
when the worst is when the equipment just malfunctions
00:42:09.090 --> 00:42:11.869
and you have to bring both athletes back to assembly
00:42:11.869 --> 00:42:14.409
and then resolve quickly what that problem was.
00:42:14.550 --> 00:42:19.789
I've had, you know, the wireless modules misfire.
00:42:19.949 --> 00:42:23.369
I've had the wired modules lose power, you know.
00:42:24.300 --> 00:42:27.079
You have to be very quick to make a decision
00:42:27.079 --> 00:42:31.460
and quick to improv. You know, I'm a speed starter,
00:42:31.599 --> 00:42:34.639
but I'm also a national speed judge, the person
00:42:34.639 --> 00:42:37.760
that inspects the wall, makes the adjustments
00:42:37.760 --> 00:42:41.159
to the holds, and really builds the whole program
00:42:41.159 --> 00:42:46.139
from the stager to the clippers to the starter.
00:42:46.420 --> 00:42:50.219
It's a lot of work. It's hard, and a lot of people
00:42:50.219 --> 00:42:52.460
have no idea what happens behind the scene at
00:42:52.460 --> 00:42:55.400
speed, and it's fascinating. Yeah, I'm now realizing
00:42:55.400 --> 00:42:57.480
I kind of have no idea what happens behind the
00:42:57.480 --> 00:43:00.420
scenes. Just enjoy the races. Yeah, yeah. If
00:43:00.420 --> 00:43:02.179
you don't have to think about it, it was well
00:43:02.179 --> 00:43:04.739
run. Yeah, true. I mean, what do you have to
00:43:04.739 --> 00:43:08.179
do as a judge? Well, there's the initial wall
00:43:08.179 --> 00:43:13.179
inspection. There's getting the team to function
00:43:13.179 --> 00:43:15.579
appropriately. Again, the stagers, the people
00:43:15.579 --> 00:43:18.139
that are lining everyone up and finding athletes
00:43:18.139 --> 00:43:21.539
to line up. The clippers, how they clip and how
00:43:21.539 --> 00:43:25.340
they function, but also to make determinations.
00:43:25.340 --> 00:43:28.599
So if something happens, you have to make a quick
00:43:28.599 --> 00:43:32.039
ruling. If both athletes fall, you have to bring
00:43:32.039 --> 00:43:34.119
them back and say, we're going to rerun this
00:43:34.119 --> 00:43:37.969
race. The most heartbreaking one is someone that
00:43:37.969 --> 00:43:40.690
false starts in a knockout round or in a finals
00:43:40.690 --> 00:43:43.750
round. They false start in a finals round. Hey,
00:43:43.809 --> 00:43:46.070
that was it. Show's over. No, that sucks. It
00:43:46.070 --> 00:43:49.650
sucks. Which is why I'm hoping a probationary
00:43:49.650 --> 00:43:51.710
false start makes its way back into the rules
00:43:51.710 --> 00:43:55.769
because that's a really satisfying, really unsatisfying
00:43:55.769 --> 00:43:58.769
finals when the last race is someone false starts
00:43:58.769 --> 00:44:01.829
and that's it. All right. So in terms of non
00:44:01.829 --> 00:44:04.730
-IFSC comps, you've been in the scene for a long
00:44:04.730 --> 00:44:07.449
time. Are there any comp experiences that have
00:44:07.449 --> 00:44:12.230
stood out to you outside of IFSC? World Games
00:44:12.230 --> 00:44:16.650
in Birmingham in 2022 was a non -IFSC event,
00:44:16.769 --> 00:44:20.550
but it was run by the IFSC. Like the Olympics,
00:44:20.750 --> 00:44:25.289
it's... It's managed by the IFSC. World Games
00:44:25.289 --> 00:44:28.829
in Birmingham was amazing because it was a multi
00:44:28.829 --> 00:44:33.769
-sport event where climbing was one of the events
00:44:33.769 --> 00:44:41.090
in this huge, huge multi -event, multi -venue
00:44:41.090 --> 00:44:47.150
sports extravaganza. And I think we were closest
00:44:47.150 --> 00:44:50.449
to like... beach volleyball or something like
00:44:50.449 --> 00:44:56.989
that. But it was staffed by USA Climbing officials,
00:44:57.190 --> 00:44:59.909
but there was only four of us. So there's four
00:44:59.909 --> 00:45:02.869
of us from USA Climbing plus local volunteers
00:45:02.869 --> 00:45:07.469
managed by the IFSC. So for that event, myself
00:45:07.469 --> 00:45:11.349
and my colleagues got to do everything. There's
00:45:11.349 --> 00:45:15.510
four of us. For speed, we had John was the speed
00:45:15.510 --> 00:45:19.659
judge. Steve and Carolyn were Clippers and I
00:45:19.659 --> 00:45:22.980
was the starter. For Boulders, for Boulder Qualies,
00:45:23.000 --> 00:45:25.280
we were all the primary judges with a volunteer
00:45:25.280 --> 00:45:28.980
as secondary judges for Boulder Qualies and finals,
00:45:29.079 --> 00:45:32.739
in fact. And for lead, John and Carolyn were
00:45:32.739 --> 00:45:35.739
the judges and Steve and I were the belayers.
00:45:35.800 --> 00:45:38.559
So it was great. It was the best thing. And it
00:45:38.559 --> 00:45:41.440
was outside in Birmingham, both during the day
00:45:41.440 --> 00:45:45.539
and at night. It was amazing. Big crowds, high
00:45:45.539 --> 00:45:49.179
stakes, lots of dignitaries there in the climbing
00:45:49.179 --> 00:45:53.059
world. It was amazing. And it was hard. And it
00:45:53.059 --> 00:45:56.920
was sweaty. Yeah, it sounds chaotic. It was very
00:45:56.920 --> 00:45:59.900
well run. I guess fewer people to coordinate
00:45:59.900 --> 00:46:01.960
makes it a little bit easier. Fewer people to
00:46:01.960 --> 00:46:06.019
coordinate and just, you know, the people that
00:46:06.019 --> 00:46:09.900
ran it for the IFSC, the judges, and shout out
00:46:09.900 --> 00:46:14.489
to Hazel, the multi. sport uh event manager it
00:46:14.489 --> 00:46:17.889
was it was it was wholly satisfying just a lot
00:46:17.889 --> 00:46:21.289
of work yeah no breaks means no time to stop
00:46:21.289 --> 00:46:29.570
and worry about things 2020 three uh national
00:46:29.570 --> 00:46:32.800
team trials was like that we had a small ballet
00:46:32.800 --> 00:46:36.619
crew who were all also very good judges and all
00:46:36.619 --> 00:46:39.679
were speed and it was it was olympic format so
00:46:39.679 --> 00:46:42.059
there was basically two rounds for everything
00:46:42.059 --> 00:46:46.679
and we it was non -stop work it was great was
00:46:46.679 --> 00:46:49.139
that in austin that was in austin oh i think
00:46:49.139 --> 00:46:52.500
i was there for that i was just uh volunteering
00:46:52.500 --> 00:46:55.440
in like iso or something like that also you probably
00:46:55.440 --> 00:46:58.909
we probably past each other at some point oh
00:46:58.909 --> 00:47:01.730
yeah no i definitely saw you i like sort of knew
00:47:01.730 --> 00:47:03.989
who you were for some reason i mean i guess you're
00:47:03.989 --> 00:47:07.269
around so you're very noticeable so it was uh
00:47:07.269 --> 00:47:10.449
yeah yeah we're at a moment now where there's
00:47:10.449 --> 00:47:14.730
more visibility on blairs and belaying even though
00:47:14.730 --> 00:47:18.369
we're trying to be as invisible as possible well
00:47:18.369 --> 00:47:21.170
why is there more eyes on the blairs nowadays
00:47:21.170 --> 00:47:25.659
because it has gone In the U .S. and in some
00:47:25.659 --> 00:47:29.099
ways IFSC, it is very much more professionalized.
00:47:29.239 --> 00:47:31.579
It's not, you know, the history of belaying for
00:47:31.579 --> 00:47:34.639
USA Climbing was it was like the four dads in
00:47:34.639 --> 00:47:36.599
the parking lot that said, well, we'll take care
00:47:36.599 --> 00:47:39.320
of everything. And, you know, now there's a program
00:47:39.320 --> 00:47:43.019
behind it. There's endorsement levels and evaluations.
00:47:43.880 --> 00:47:46.760
And the one big lesson, and here's your hot take,
00:47:46.960 --> 00:47:51.369
the one big lesson is no longer. Can women only
00:47:51.369 --> 00:47:54.849
belay women or not belay? But they can belay
00:47:54.849 --> 00:47:59.110
any round, any athlete. And that's because once
00:47:59.110 --> 00:48:03.030
you learn the technique, the myth of weight differential
00:48:03.030 --> 00:48:07.550
is completely gone. And my take is some of the
00:48:07.550 --> 00:48:11.070
best belayers in the world are women in some
00:48:11.070 --> 00:48:14.369
aspects because they have to be better in order
00:48:14.369 --> 00:48:16.489
to break through in some of these circles. They
00:48:16.489 --> 00:48:19.860
have to be better than a lot of the men. A lot
00:48:19.860 --> 00:48:23.320
of women just get it. And, you know, going back
00:48:23.320 --> 00:48:27.960
to 2019, Katie Kayser was a real trailblazer
00:48:27.960 --> 00:48:31.679
for women belaying any round, any athlete. Met
00:48:31.679 --> 00:48:35.280
this young woman, Roe Del Rio, that, you know,
00:48:35.300 --> 00:48:39.900
this was a youth regionals, and she did all the
00:48:39.900 --> 00:48:44.460
A -men, all the junior men. And we just watched
00:48:44.460 --> 00:48:47.059
because her technique was so sound, she never
00:48:47.059 --> 00:48:50.260
got thrown into the air. all soft catches. And
00:48:50.260 --> 00:48:53.039
now we have people like C -Lad and Megan who
00:48:53.039 --> 00:48:56.159
are perhaps the best belayers on the planet.
00:48:56.300 --> 00:49:00.199
This woman coming up in this area, Sawyer, maybe
00:49:00.199 --> 00:49:02.099
the best belayer I've ever met. Well, I didn't
00:49:02.099 --> 00:49:04.539
even know that that was an issue or that there
00:49:04.539 --> 00:49:07.179
was an idea that women could only belay women.
00:49:07.199 --> 00:49:08.599
Well, well, well, little lady, you can't belay
00:49:08.599 --> 00:49:12.099
the men. They're too heavy. First, there are
00:49:12.099 --> 00:49:15.599
women that are absolute, just like, you know,
00:49:15.599 --> 00:49:19.000
physical specimens that may... way more than
00:49:19.000 --> 00:49:22.480
some of the men. It does not matter. It's not
00:49:22.480 --> 00:49:25.420
a weight thing. You'll still see some international
00:49:25.420 --> 00:49:27.739
competitions where only the women are belaying
00:49:27.739 --> 00:49:30.679
women and only the men are belaying men. It doesn't
00:49:30.679 --> 00:49:33.340
matter. In fact, we've been doing a lot of rounds
00:49:33.340 --> 00:49:36.480
where the women are deliberately put in the men's
00:49:36.480 --> 00:49:39.460
round and the men belay the women just to say,
00:49:39.539 --> 00:49:46.820
hey, this isn't a mystery. We've disproven this.
00:49:48.010 --> 00:49:50.429
Oh, and Eliza. Eliza's one of the greatest players.
00:49:50.590 --> 00:49:54.110
She may be retired at this point, but she's absolutely
00:49:54.110 --> 00:49:56.650
amazing. So was it just like weight difference
00:49:56.650 --> 00:49:58.269
concern? Well, that was the line. Like you would
00:49:58.269 --> 00:50:00.710
get thrown in the air? Get thrown in the air
00:50:00.710 --> 00:50:05.409
and you can't control it because, you know, we've
00:50:05.409 --> 00:50:09.469
disproven it. Weight difference is the reason
00:50:09.469 --> 00:50:13.809
why some people use the ohm. you know, descenders
00:50:13.809 --> 00:50:16.110
and things like that. But for competition, where
00:50:16.110 --> 00:50:20.650
there's a high level of skill, you know, I'm
00:50:20.650 --> 00:50:23.730
tall, but I'm not heavy. You know, there are
00:50:23.730 --> 00:50:25.809
lots of men and women athletes that probably
00:50:25.809 --> 00:50:28.329
weigh more than me. It's not a weight thing.
00:50:28.429 --> 00:50:31.650
It's purely a technique thing. It's a skills
00:50:31.650 --> 00:50:34.969
thing. And if you have the skills, you pay the
00:50:34.969 --> 00:50:41.170
bills. Okay. Yeah, good phrase. So I guess if
00:50:41.170 --> 00:50:42.829
there is a big weight difference, what do you
00:50:42.829 --> 00:50:45.530
need to do or what do you need to take into consideration?
00:50:46.030 --> 00:50:47.670
You know, there's nothing you do differently.
00:50:48.469 --> 00:50:54.050
We use ATCs and we use what we call dynamic rope
00:50:54.050 --> 00:50:56.829
control, which it used to be called slip belay.
00:50:57.230 --> 00:50:59.869
Well, slip belay doesn't really sound like something
00:50:59.869 --> 00:51:02.750
that's very safe. So we came up with the words
00:51:02.750 --> 00:51:08.449
dynamic rope control, DRC. As someone is starting
00:51:08.449 --> 00:51:11.349
to fall, you start their descent. So they fall
00:51:11.349 --> 00:51:17.929
into a soft, even cloud of joy. If it's low,
00:51:18.090 --> 00:51:20.510
you may have to lock off and you may get jerked
00:51:20.510 --> 00:51:22.849
or pulled a little bit. But if you know how to
00:51:22.849 --> 00:51:25.050
handle it, you know how to handle it, man or
00:51:25.050 --> 00:51:28.510
woman. It's a skills and experience deal. And
00:51:28.510 --> 00:51:31.329
before I forget, you know, I've talked a lot
00:51:31.329 --> 00:51:33.969
about lead and speed, but pair climbing is where
00:51:33.969 --> 00:51:36.820
it's at, man. Right, yeah. These are athletes
00:51:36.820 --> 00:51:39.179
and a lot of people have not gotten to the point
00:51:39.179 --> 00:51:43.079
where they appreciate the strength, determination
00:51:43.079 --> 00:51:47.659
and skill of these athletes. It's just, it can
00:51:47.659 --> 00:51:52.159
be super hard to belay. You have to be, you know,
00:51:52.159 --> 00:51:55.559
these are people that your technique comes into
00:51:55.559 --> 00:51:59.559
play because some of these athletes may not be
00:51:59.559 --> 00:52:02.400
able to absorb the impact of a wall or of course
00:52:02.400 --> 00:52:05.619
a deck, whether it's because of their... you
00:52:05.619 --> 00:52:09.539
know, missing a limb, low powered, or, you know,
00:52:09.559 --> 00:52:12.519
if you don't have both of your legs, your weight,
00:52:12.559 --> 00:52:15.119
your center of balance is in a really different
00:52:15.119 --> 00:52:19.659
place for climbing. And so the belaying, we like
00:52:19.659 --> 00:52:24.530
to, you know, belayer Steve likes to call. paraclimbing
00:52:24.530 --> 00:52:27.829
belaying like fly fishing you're so attuned to
00:52:27.829 --> 00:52:30.269
the touch of the rope and what's happening on
00:52:30.269 --> 00:52:33.630
the wall and with the dual belay system the the
00:52:33.630 --> 00:52:39.449
two belay system it's super super important to
00:52:39.449 --> 00:52:42.309
get both sides right you're going to see more
00:52:42.309 --> 00:52:45.090
of the dual belay system as they put the younger
00:52:45.090 --> 00:52:48.929
climbers the top rope climbers on big overhang
00:52:48.929 --> 00:52:52.400
walls And some of that is to prepare the younger
00:52:52.400 --> 00:52:55.159
climbers who are still top roping to climb these
00:52:55.159 --> 00:53:00.179
big overhang walls. But with the dual belay,
00:53:00.280 --> 00:53:04.139
it prevents, where it's very overhung, it prevents
00:53:04.139 --> 00:53:07.199
the climber from, if ever just top rope, from
00:53:07.199 --> 00:53:10.940
falling to the ground because of the slack involved.
00:53:11.159 --> 00:53:14.119
But it also prevents the swing out, swing back
00:53:14.119 --> 00:53:17.679
to the wall. There was a stigma with it, and
00:53:17.679 --> 00:53:19.940
some pair of climbers were like, We'd rather
00:53:19.940 --> 00:53:25.219
just have a single top rope. But I think we're
00:53:25.219 --> 00:53:28.420
going to see it more and more, especially with
00:53:28.420 --> 00:53:31.679
the younger top rope only climbers. And there
00:53:31.679 --> 00:53:34.539
are some instances where this has already happened.
00:53:34.800 --> 00:53:37.539
So it's super great. Why do some para climbers
00:53:37.539 --> 00:53:41.039
want only a single top rope? They want the same
00:53:41.039 --> 00:53:43.619
experience as any climber is going to have. Not
00:53:43.619 --> 00:53:45.960
to be, oh, we have to have this helping hand
00:53:45.960 --> 00:53:48.519
with the dual belay. Well, it's more just...
00:53:48.750 --> 00:53:52.389
to protect all the athletes because a lot of
00:53:52.389 --> 00:53:57.710
these big overhung walls aren't intended for
00:53:57.710 --> 00:54:02.090
top rope only. In fact, a lot of gyms will not
00:54:02.090 --> 00:54:04.110
let you top rope only some of these overhang
00:54:04.110 --> 00:54:06.989
walls because a low fall could put you into the
00:54:06.989 --> 00:54:09.349
floor. I didn't go into any paragliding questions
00:54:09.349 --> 00:54:12.570
because I had already learned a lot from my last
00:54:12.570 --> 00:54:14.750
episode with Noah, which I think people should
00:54:14.750 --> 00:54:17.409
check out if they want to hear more about that.
00:54:17.570 --> 00:54:20.869
I'd like to consider Noah as a prodigy of sorts,
00:54:20.929 --> 00:54:23.289
but he's also someone I have so much respect
00:54:23.289 --> 00:54:27.869
for as a caring human and as just a highly, highly
00:54:27.869 --> 00:54:30.900
skilled professional. Yeah, I know that Noah
00:54:30.900 --> 00:54:33.639
mentioned about belaying like, oh, like the leg
00:54:33.639 --> 00:54:36.420
amputees. They climb so fast because they're
00:54:36.420 --> 00:54:39.320
campusing up the wall and trying to get up there
00:54:39.320 --> 00:54:41.219
as fast as they can. They've continued to make
00:54:41.219 --> 00:54:44.820
those routes harder. So it's not as fast as it
00:54:44.820 --> 00:54:46.679
once was when it was basically just straight
00:54:46.679 --> 00:54:51.860
up into the air. But it was like back when we
00:54:51.860 --> 00:54:54.739
manually belayed speed climbing, you know? Oh,
00:54:54.739 --> 00:54:59.090
geez. Yeah. Eight second, six second speed climbing
00:54:59.090 --> 00:55:02.090
was extremely hard to do. Wait, how long ago
00:55:02.090 --> 00:55:07.090
was that? 2018, I think, was the last elite event
00:55:07.090 --> 00:55:10.010
where we had two person belay. And if you saw
00:55:10.010 --> 00:55:12.030
the real, there's a real rock with speed belaying
00:55:12.030 --> 00:55:16.650
where at that event, it was John Browser going,
00:55:16.869 --> 00:55:19.340
you know, six something seconds. One of the players
00:55:19.340 --> 00:55:22.139
missed a hand because you're playing this side
00:55:22.139 --> 00:55:23.860
of the Grigri like this, where you have someone
00:55:23.860 --> 00:55:25.599
else is pulling the rope through the other side
00:55:25.599 --> 00:55:28.079
of the Grigri. So it's four hands on the rope.
00:55:28.380 --> 00:55:33.000
But he missed a hand and fell over. So now I'm
00:55:33.000 --> 00:55:35.719
the starter standing and I see this huge loop
00:55:35.719 --> 00:55:38.099
of rope. Well, if he gets to the top, he's going
00:55:38.099 --> 00:55:42.139
to crash because there's too much rope. So instinctively,
00:55:42.139 --> 00:55:44.280
I dropped the speed starting module, grabbed
00:55:44.280 --> 00:55:46.909
the rope. He finished it. I got pulled over the
00:55:46.909 --> 00:55:49.650
PA system. I had burns in my hand. And I know
00:55:49.650 --> 00:55:52.630
some people who have lost, had shoulder injuries
00:55:52.630 --> 00:55:55.710
from grabbing a rope from a manual belay. So
00:55:55.710 --> 00:55:59.730
auto belays, that was the end of manual speed
00:55:59.730 --> 00:56:02.349
belaying. Oh my gosh. I need to see a video of
00:56:02.349 --> 00:56:07.190
that. Wow. I had no idea that they ever did speed
00:56:07.190 --> 00:56:09.650
climbing with manual belays. There was a time
00:56:09.650 --> 00:56:11.710
when auto belays were deemed to be too slow.
00:56:12.670 --> 00:56:17.219
But now that the times are... little over four
00:56:17.219 --> 00:56:20.380
seconds there's no way to do it manually was
00:56:20.380 --> 00:56:22.380
there ever a concern when doing it manually that
00:56:22.380 --> 00:56:25.639
you would be like aiding them by like going too
00:56:25.639 --> 00:56:28.219
fast especially if they like slip and fall yep
00:56:28.219 --> 00:56:35.059
yes yes yes yes uh aiding was a concern uh and
00:56:35.059 --> 00:56:37.599
if someone slipped then now you've caught them
00:56:37.599 --> 00:56:40.219
so you know then the adjudication is did they
00:56:40.219 --> 00:56:43.239
wait the rope was it a fall Auto belay really,
00:56:43.519 --> 00:56:47.360
really simplifies speed climbing. Yeah, geez.
00:56:47.659 --> 00:56:50.840
I mean, judges definitely had a big job for speed
00:56:50.840 --> 00:56:52.519
climbing back in the day then. Yeah, then they'd
00:56:52.519 --> 00:56:54.340
ask the belayer, hey, did they weight the rope?
00:56:54.420 --> 00:56:56.380
And it's like, I don't know. I was just trying
00:56:56.380 --> 00:56:59.300
to kick him off the floor. Geez, okay, interesting.
00:57:00.599 --> 00:57:02.860
But okay, we got to this from para climbing somehow.
00:57:03.920 --> 00:57:07.860
Are there any other things with para climbing
00:57:07.860 --> 00:57:10.920
belaying that surprised you when you, I guess,
00:57:10.940 --> 00:57:13.980
first started? When I first started, my first
00:57:13.980 --> 00:57:18.980
big paraclimbing event was 2019 Paraclimbing
00:57:18.980 --> 00:57:24.260
Championship. And one of the things that shocked
00:57:24.260 --> 00:57:29.099
me was it was considered to be a not elite event.
00:57:29.199 --> 00:57:31.519
So you didn't have a lot of the best people come
00:57:31.519 --> 00:57:34.380
out to support paraclimbing, which sucked because
00:57:34.380 --> 00:57:39.139
it... is an elite event. It is harder in some
00:57:39.139 --> 00:57:43.280
aspects to belay. So when we showed up for that,
00:57:43.300 --> 00:57:45.639
that was the first time they said, oh, you guys
00:57:45.639 --> 00:57:49.119
are here. This must be real, which was both flattering,
00:57:49.159 --> 00:57:51.199
but also disappointing that it hadn't received
00:57:51.199 --> 00:57:56.920
the amount of support it has. And also, and one
00:57:56.920 --> 00:57:58.679
of the things that paraclimbers hate are people
00:57:58.679 --> 00:58:02.940
that are like... Oh, they're so strong. No, they're
00:58:02.940 --> 00:58:05.599
the same dirt bags that we belay out at the crag
00:58:05.599 --> 00:58:10.159
and in the lead series. They don't want that.
00:58:10.380 --> 00:58:12.860
And a lot of paraclimbers don't want your help
00:58:12.860 --> 00:58:15.320
untying or unclipping. Just leave me alone and
00:58:15.320 --> 00:58:18.800
it's fine. That's cool. But yeah, I think we
00:58:18.800 --> 00:58:23.340
serve paraclimbing to the same standards and
00:58:23.340 --> 00:58:26.280
bring the same skilled personnel that we do for
00:58:26.280 --> 00:58:28.829
any event. And that was our goal. And anything
00:58:28.829 --> 00:58:32.530
specifically about belaying them that stood out?
00:58:32.849 --> 00:58:35.429
I guess you mentioned their center of gravity
00:58:35.429 --> 00:58:38.829
could be different. Center of gravity and just
00:58:38.829 --> 00:58:41.409
managing a dual belay system can be difficult.
00:58:41.510 --> 00:58:43.570
If you do it wrong, then now they're caught up
00:58:43.570 --> 00:58:45.769
in the rope and it's a whole different issue.
00:58:45.829 --> 00:58:49.750
They could fall and catch a prosthesis in the
00:58:49.750 --> 00:58:52.269
rope, which you don't want to happen. And one
00:58:52.269 --> 00:58:54.570
thing that I learned this year that I'd never
00:58:54.570 --> 00:58:58.260
really considered is that When I gave the example
00:58:58.260 --> 00:59:00.980
of the woman back in the day standing on the
00:59:00.980 --> 00:59:03.739
rope, well, she finally felt that she was standing
00:59:03.739 --> 00:59:06.199
on the rope. If you have a prosthetic leg, you
00:59:06.199 --> 00:59:07.940
don't feel that you're standing on the rope.
00:59:08.039 --> 00:59:11.860
You may not feel it as much. There may be less
00:59:11.860 --> 00:59:14.880
of a tactile, less tactile feedback that you're
00:59:14.880 --> 00:59:18.440
standing on a rope. And it happens. It's hard
00:59:18.440 --> 00:59:20.840
and you have to be thoughtful and experience
00:59:20.840 --> 00:59:24.780
counts. It can't just be some... person off.
00:59:25.000 --> 00:59:27.239
I've had judges tell me, well, it's just top
00:59:27.239 --> 00:59:30.559
rope belaying. No, it's not just top rope belaying.
00:59:30.619 --> 00:59:34.079
It's super hard top rope belaying with a partner
00:59:34.079 --> 00:59:36.579
on the other side. Yeah. Yeah. It is not easy
00:59:36.579 --> 00:59:39.300
out there to, uh, to play para climbing and put
00:59:39.300 --> 00:59:43.239
on that event. Um, okay. So you have been in
00:59:43.239 --> 00:59:46.320
the competition scene for quite a while, um,
00:59:46.440 --> 00:59:49.539
climbing for quite a while. How has the scene
00:59:49.539 --> 00:59:52.239
changed now that climbing is an Olympic sport
00:59:52.239 --> 00:59:55.380
and like para climbing? It's a Paralympic sport.
00:59:56.000 --> 00:59:58.500
Amazing that it's a Paralympic sport. I know
00:59:58.500 --> 01:00:00.500
there's some disappointment at the number of
01:00:00.500 --> 01:00:03.219
categories that got pushed through. But, you
01:00:03.219 --> 01:00:07.840
know, as with, you know, the other disciplines
01:00:07.840 --> 01:00:10.519
of climbing, it can evolve. And so maybe more
01:00:10.519 --> 01:00:13.219
will be included in the future. But the biggest
01:00:13.219 --> 01:00:17.719
thing that you're starting to see is how hungry
01:00:17.719 --> 01:00:21.179
slash thirsty people are to get part of that.
01:00:21.500 --> 01:00:24.300
Olympic action. And I don't mean just the athletes.
01:00:24.380 --> 01:00:26.519
Of course, the athletes are trying their hardest
01:00:26.519 --> 01:00:29.880
to make it as far as they can with a mix of very
01:00:29.880 --> 01:00:32.019
few people being wildly successful and a lot
01:00:32.019 --> 01:00:34.800
of people being wildly disappointed. But even
01:00:34.800 --> 01:00:37.099
behind the scenes with judging and belaying,
01:00:37.139 --> 01:00:41.460
I've had numerous people say, so how do I belay
01:00:41.460 --> 01:00:44.719
the Olympics? And my standard response is, no
01:00:44.719 --> 01:00:47.059
one you know will belay the Olympics because
01:00:47.059 --> 01:00:49.420
it's probably going to come down to four people.
01:00:50.760 --> 01:00:56.619
that may be invited for the Olympics, I'll be
01:00:56.619 --> 01:01:00.559
137 in 2028. So I'm probably not belaying the
01:01:00.559 --> 01:01:03.659
Olympics. I may not know who's going to belay
01:01:03.659 --> 01:01:05.159
the Olympics. It's one of those things where
01:01:05.159 --> 01:01:09.659
just, if that's your goal, you may want to reevaluate
01:01:09.659 --> 01:01:13.059
your goals. But if that's your goal, stay in
01:01:13.059 --> 01:01:15.380
the circuit, get as much work in as you can,
01:01:15.400 --> 01:01:17.900
and hopefully... Whoever's making that decision
01:01:17.900 --> 01:01:20.619
at the time, you may be among the people picking
01:01:20.619 --> 01:01:24.079
that. But my answer is, I don't know who's making
01:01:24.079 --> 01:01:26.500
that decision. I don't know who's going to do
01:01:26.500 --> 01:01:31.139
that. It could be anybody, probably not anybody
01:01:31.139 --> 01:01:34.780
we know. That's how few people that will do that.
01:01:35.960 --> 01:01:39.619
With any luck, I will be invited to do para -climbing,
01:01:39.659 --> 01:01:41.960
which I think would be my passion. But again,
01:01:42.179 --> 01:01:45.840
it's not something I'm either working toward.
01:01:46.460 --> 01:01:49.880
or hoping for. Whatever happens, happens. But
01:01:49.880 --> 01:01:53.739
it's made climbing to be very, very serious,
01:01:53.760 --> 01:01:55.840
and you see it trickling down from the elite
01:01:55.840 --> 01:01:58.780
athletes all the way down to the youth. Back
01:01:58.780 --> 01:02:01.719
in the day, in order to go to a regional championships,
01:02:02.000 --> 01:02:05.739
the qualification was you had to compete in two
01:02:05.739 --> 01:02:08.500
events, and that was your qualifier. Now you
01:02:08.500 --> 01:02:13.420
have to make a certain tier. With that, the stakes
01:02:13.420 --> 01:02:15.480
have become higher, the competition has become
01:02:15.480 --> 01:02:20.039
harder, and there's a little bit more of a parent
01:02:20.039 --> 01:02:23.019
influence and involvement. And these are the
01:02:23.019 --> 01:02:25.699
parents that we've criticized in climbing from,
01:02:25.760 --> 01:02:30.380
like, other sports. And not to disparage other
01:02:30.380 --> 01:02:33.820
sports, but there are hockey parents. I was a
01:02:33.820 --> 01:02:37.139
soccer coach. The parents, I had to tell the
01:02:37.139 --> 01:02:40.440
parents before every competition, before every...
01:02:41.800 --> 01:02:44.460
before every match, please don't coach from the
01:02:44.460 --> 01:02:46.460
sidelines. They're trying to listen to me and
01:02:46.460 --> 01:02:49.960
Coach Rob. But the parents, there's some parents
01:02:49.960 --> 01:02:52.380
that feel they know better. And I know it's stressful
01:02:52.380 --> 01:02:55.340
for them. And I know in some sports, the parents
01:02:55.340 --> 01:02:57.880
feel there are scholarships involved. And in
01:02:57.880 --> 01:03:00.800
some sports, parents feel that they can ascend
01:03:00.800 --> 01:03:05.139
to the Olympics. Again, significantly zero people
01:03:05.139 --> 01:03:09.340
we know will get this opportunity. It's that
01:03:09.340 --> 01:03:12.420
limited a pool. You can see it sometimes with
01:03:12.420 --> 01:03:14.699
some of the parents. I'm not criticizing every
01:03:14.699 --> 01:03:17.960
parent, but some parents get very intense. Some
01:03:17.960 --> 01:03:20.639
athletes, even young, young athletes get very,
01:03:20.739 --> 01:03:23.619
very intense to a point where there's a question
01:03:23.619 --> 01:03:26.739
of how healthy this is. You know, D athletes,
01:03:27.059 --> 01:03:31.280
which are the U13 or U14, you know, D athletes
01:03:31.280 --> 01:03:33.119
used to go to national championships. And it
01:03:33.119 --> 01:03:36.599
was a big outcry when they took D out of nationals
01:03:36.599 --> 01:03:41.539
and put it into the... climbing festival or whatever
01:03:41.539 --> 01:03:45.519
that's called now but the the the the thinking
01:03:45.519 --> 01:03:48.119
from the committee was it's a lot of pressure
01:03:48.119 --> 01:03:52.260
to put on children that you have to go to a national
01:03:52.260 --> 01:03:55.159
championship and then you know make it the next
01:03:55.159 --> 01:03:58.280
year and make it the next year and so many young
01:03:58.280 --> 01:04:02.659
athletes who are very successful in their under
01:04:02.659 --> 01:04:06.340
15 under 17 you know they they grow their body
01:04:06.340 --> 01:04:09.739
changes their their interests change they may
01:04:09.739 --> 01:04:12.719
not find that same level of success. And it's
01:04:12.719 --> 01:04:15.159
hard on families. It's hard on the athletes.
01:04:15.199 --> 01:04:17.639
It's hard on the parents. You know, parents who
01:04:17.639 --> 01:04:20.719
are saying, you know, we won, we did this. It's
01:04:20.719 --> 01:04:23.780
like, no, your kid did that. You know, you can
01:04:23.780 --> 01:04:25.980
support your kid without it being part of you.
01:04:26.599 --> 01:04:32.019
And I'm not being harsh on all parents. It's
01:04:32.019 --> 01:04:36.300
the few that we've all seen that really make
01:04:36.300 --> 01:04:40.139
it a... Overly intense, overly precious, and
01:04:40.139 --> 01:04:44.199
overly stressful activity at times. While your
01:04:44.199 --> 01:04:47.320
daughter was growing up, what was the youth scene
01:04:47.320 --> 01:04:50.719
like then? It was back when you just had to do
01:04:50.719 --> 01:04:56.719
two events to get into regionals. But she became
01:04:56.719 --> 01:05:00.420
super serious and pretty good. I'm not going
01:05:00.420 --> 01:05:03.559
to say she was the best, but she was pretty good.
01:05:03.699 --> 01:05:09.920
She received... a bronze medal at Canadian nationals
01:05:09.920 --> 01:05:12.420
and speed one year. And she specialized in speed
01:05:12.420 --> 01:05:16.000
for a while, but it's a, it's a hard discipline
01:05:16.000 --> 01:05:18.800
for those who specialize. You're putting a lot
01:05:18.800 --> 01:05:25.440
of eggs into a 10 second basket. And there's
01:05:25.440 --> 01:05:27.300
athletes that have traveled all the way around
01:05:27.300 --> 01:05:29.940
the world and fall started. And that's it. Or,
01:05:30.039 --> 01:05:33.800
you know, my daughter has missed the timer, you
01:05:33.800 --> 01:05:38.630
know, and that's it, you know, no time. Um, and
01:05:38.630 --> 01:05:43.329
there were people who, who, who burned out, but
01:05:43.329 --> 01:05:45.190
it's, you know, the same with the other disciplines
01:05:45.190 --> 01:05:51.010
too. It's, it can be taxing. And I like to hope
01:05:51.010 --> 01:05:55.050
that more athletes are able to have fun and still
01:05:55.050 --> 01:06:00.050
let climbing be fun. But there are a lot of athletes
01:06:00.050 --> 01:06:02.769
who are just really good. And yes, you know,
01:06:02.769 --> 01:06:04.920
in the elite series. For a lot of athletes, this
01:06:04.920 --> 01:06:07.360
is their job. This is their livelihood. This
01:06:07.360 --> 01:06:09.940
is what they do professionally. And that's great.
01:06:10.019 --> 01:06:15.840
I'd love to see it. But it's hard to see young
01:06:15.840 --> 01:06:18.460
athletes crying because they didn't make the
01:06:18.460 --> 01:06:22.079
cut. Sobbing in the corner because they didn't
01:06:22.079 --> 01:06:24.880
make the cut to go to semis or finals and have
01:06:24.880 --> 01:06:26.719
a parent hover over them and say, well, you should
01:06:26.719 --> 01:06:32.880
have climbed better. So uncool. So unsupportive.
01:06:32.880 --> 01:06:35.420
My wife is a developmental psychologist, you
01:06:35.420 --> 01:06:39.440
know, PhD. My background is social psychology.
01:06:39.480 --> 01:06:42.019
You know, we talk about what these impacts could
01:06:42.019 --> 01:06:46.460
be. And some of them are just not healthy. My
01:06:46.460 --> 01:06:50.679
child, you know, you had to be 16 at the time
01:06:50.679 --> 01:06:54.260
to go into the elite circuit, 16 during the competition
01:06:54.260 --> 01:06:57.559
year. So she was 15 when she left youth. And
01:06:57.559 --> 01:07:00.780
I asked her, she said, it's the parents. they're
01:07:00.780 --> 01:07:04.199
driving not hopefully not me because i continue
01:07:04.199 --> 01:07:07.039
to work with her transport her and support her
01:07:07.039 --> 01:07:09.619
but she's like just the stuff she's witnessed
01:07:09.619 --> 01:07:13.400
is just too hard to to have to witness continually
01:07:13.400 --> 01:07:17.300
and is it like also cutthroat even with i guess
01:07:17.300 --> 01:07:20.079
like other families like it can be family beef
01:07:20.079 --> 01:07:24.099
yeah all of that all of that has happened but
01:07:24.099 --> 01:07:26.340
she found the elite circuit to be more chill
01:07:26.340 --> 01:07:29.250
because There's a time when she was competing
01:07:29.250 --> 01:07:31.650
in the same comps as her coach, and they could
01:07:31.650 --> 01:07:35.090
just hang out and talk, and it was chill. And
01:07:35.090 --> 01:07:37.909
the collegiate scene, super chill. And the para
01:07:37.909 --> 01:07:42.590
-climbing scene, super chill and loving and supportive.
01:07:45.250 --> 01:07:49.230
But sometimes the youth and elite, bolder and
01:07:49.230 --> 01:07:54.659
youth and elite, lead. comps can be can be pretty
01:07:54.659 --> 01:07:57.300
intense and i've worked the most intense comps
01:07:57.300 --> 01:08:01.059
you know ntt is very intense elite and youth
01:08:01.059 --> 01:08:04.699
championships are very intense and that's that's
01:08:04.699 --> 01:08:08.760
the nature of competition but you know putting
01:08:08.760 --> 01:08:13.159
the olympics at the top of that pyramid has ratcheted
01:08:13.159 --> 01:08:15.780
up the intensity for everybody and i know some
01:08:15.780 --> 01:08:18.619
pro climbers who didn't make it it's altered
01:08:18.619 --> 01:08:22.050
their career trajectories they've gone on to
01:08:22.050 --> 01:08:24.869
other things a lot of them have gone on to just
01:08:24.869 --> 01:08:27.949
climb outdoors or or do other things which is
01:08:27.949 --> 01:08:30.489
fine and that's one of the thing i one of the
01:08:30.489 --> 01:08:32.609
things i've grown to appreciate the blank community
01:08:32.609 --> 01:08:36.550
is some people will go on to other things i'm
01:08:36.550 --> 01:08:39.609
done being a top blair i'm gonna go do something
01:08:39.609 --> 01:08:42.649
else good to get that kind of history and background
01:08:42.649 --> 01:08:45.710
and to learn that youth is not where you ever
01:08:45.710 --> 01:08:49.329
want to find yourself well you know i'm sure
01:08:49.329 --> 01:08:51.670
someone in your vast audience will say he was
01:08:51.670 --> 01:08:53.829
too critical but i'm not trying to be critical
01:08:53.829 --> 01:08:57.989
it's just one of our jobs as a parent as an adult
01:08:57.989 --> 01:09:01.689
as an official is to look after the athletes
01:09:01.689 --> 01:09:04.029
you know whether that's belaying well judging
01:09:04.029 --> 01:09:09.989
uh judging well or you know just providing water
01:09:09.989 --> 01:09:14.369
support is important and care is important one
01:09:14.369 --> 01:09:16.930
of the things I love most about some of the top
01:09:16.930 --> 01:09:19.289
players is how much they care about athletes
01:09:19.289 --> 01:09:22.409
athletes who may show up to a chair late it's
01:09:22.409 --> 01:09:25.970
like let's calm this down we got you we'll get
01:09:25.970 --> 01:09:28.130
you out to the field of play it's not time to
01:09:28.130 --> 01:09:32.729
freak out yeah good words to end on there just
01:09:32.729 --> 01:09:35.010
a few more discord questions questions from the
01:09:35.010 --> 01:09:39.609
audience oh So first one, do belayers get a rundown
01:09:39.609 --> 01:09:41.449
of the route from the setters or are they figuring
01:09:41.449 --> 01:09:43.829
it out with the athletes? Especially when it
01:09:43.829 --> 01:09:46.189
comes to the crazier moves they set, like dynamic
01:09:46.189 --> 01:09:48.729
stuff and down climbing. In better organized
01:09:48.729 --> 01:09:53.170
competitions, the head belayer will have a conversation
01:09:53.170 --> 01:09:56.810
with the head setter to know what some of their
01:09:56.810 --> 01:09:59.649
concerns might be. And then that information
01:09:59.649 --> 01:10:03.890
is transferred to the belayers for some qualifying
01:10:03.890 --> 01:10:06.100
youth events. You just show up and you belay
01:10:06.100 --> 01:10:09.239
it. There are some belayers who are very, very
01:10:09.239 --> 01:10:11.840
good at what we call site belaying. That's the
01:10:11.840 --> 01:10:13.960
person that can move around and work any route
01:10:13.960 --> 01:10:17.899
and be the person to take over for breaks or
01:10:17.899 --> 01:10:21.159
just substitute in if someone is belaying under
01:10:21.159 --> 01:10:24.619
standard. And sometimes you have to figure it
01:10:24.619 --> 01:10:27.779
out. Most of the time, we will have some recon
01:10:27.779 --> 01:10:32.529
on the routes. Sounds good. Have you ever seen
01:10:32.529 --> 01:10:35.369
an athlete or coach object to a belayer? Yep.
01:10:35.770 --> 01:10:40.069
What happens there? If a belayer, for whatever
01:10:40.069 --> 01:10:42.369
reason, has a reputation of someone they don't
01:10:42.369 --> 01:10:45.149
want to belay with, there's been discussions
01:10:45.149 --> 01:10:47.909
and call zones. It's like, can someone else belay
01:10:47.909 --> 01:10:50.710
me? In the youth circuit, it's probably more
01:10:50.710 --> 01:10:56.869
prevalent because you have more volunteers who
01:10:56.869 --> 01:11:00.119
people aren't familiar with. And so it's like,
01:11:00.180 --> 01:11:04.020
is that person okay? Or if parents or spectators
01:11:04.020 --> 01:11:08.579
see someone practicing poor technique, there
01:11:08.579 --> 01:11:13.420
may be a discussion to replace a belayer. We've
01:11:13.420 --> 01:11:15.939
tried to mitigate against that through training
01:11:15.939 --> 01:11:19.880
and endorsement systems. Makes sense. And last
01:11:19.880 --> 01:11:22.159
one, is there a process for removing a belayer
01:11:22.159 --> 01:11:25.109
mid -comp if there are issues? You have to have
01:11:25.109 --> 01:11:28.130
a really strong head belayer and assistant head
01:11:28.130 --> 01:11:31.010
belayer who, in conjunction with the JP or event
01:11:31.010 --> 01:11:35.029
organizer or head sitter, determines that person
01:11:35.029 --> 01:11:39.670
isn't belaying to standard. And it has to be
01:11:39.670 --> 01:11:42.210
a conversation. Can you come with me, please?
01:11:42.390 --> 01:11:44.810
We're going to take you out of this rotation
01:11:44.810 --> 01:11:47.270
and put someone else in. I mean, we saw that
01:11:47.270 --> 01:11:49.609
at Wu Jang at the very highest level that the
01:11:49.609 --> 01:11:54.640
belayers were replaced. I was at a national championship
01:11:54.640 --> 01:11:57.380
a few years ago where I was head belayer and
01:11:57.380 --> 01:11:59.460
I asked my head belayer to remove a belayer because
01:11:59.460 --> 01:12:03.659
he was performing under standards. One of the
01:12:03.659 --> 01:12:06.279
things we have in every belay plan is if you
01:12:06.279 --> 01:12:10.619
are removed, let's talk about it after the round
01:12:10.619 --> 01:12:13.199
and not on the field of play. Well, this belayer
01:12:13.199 --> 01:12:15.100
wanted to adjudicate it right there on the field
01:12:15.100 --> 01:12:19.829
of play and it got very nasty. A process at the
01:12:19.829 --> 01:12:22.789
higher level comps, most higher level comps,
01:12:22.789 --> 01:12:25.149
not every higher level comps, but there are many
01:12:25.149 --> 01:12:27.250
comps where there is no process. The person just
01:12:27.250 --> 01:12:32.550
has to be told to give up the rope. But it's
01:12:32.550 --> 01:12:35.470
something a JP or a head setter or the head Blair
01:12:35.470 --> 01:12:39.630
are certainly empowered to do. I didn't know
01:12:39.630 --> 01:12:42.760
that happened in Wuchong. You'll notice at the
01:12:42.760 --> 01:12:46.680
men's round after the down climb situation, there
01:12:46.680 --> 01:12:49.880
were new belayers put out onto the field. Hurts
01:12:49.880 --> 01:12:52.119
my heart to see. Do you know what went on there?
01:12:52.899 --> 01:12:57.479
I think the video showed that the climber was
01:12:57.479 --> 01:13:00.539
aided in the down climb. Without the aid, they
01:13:00.539 --> 01:13:02.619
would have fallen. So it was basically, or not
01:13:02.619 --> 01:13:04.560
basically, technically, it was a rope technical.
01:13:05.220 --> 01:13:07.800
So then the climber had to climb again. So that
01:13:07.800 --> 01:13:13.100
really, really threw the comp off. Well, at least
01:13:13.100 --> 01:13:15.539
it wasn't like a safety issue. It was not a safety
01:13:15.539 --> 01:13:18.560
issue, but there had been a safety issue earlier
01:13:18.560 --> 01:13:21.939
in that comp with maybe big falls, but I do not
01:13:21.939 --> 01:13:24.659
know that for sure. Okay. Good to know. What
01:13:24.659 --> 01:13:27.180
I heard from people who were there. Okay. Well,
01:13:27.300 --> 01:13:29.880
that's all the questions I had. Thanks for joining.
01:13:30.340 --> 01:13:32.520
Any like last minute words of wisdom you want
01:13:32.520 --> 01:13:35.000
to get out there? Two words, ice climbing. That's
01:13:35.000 --> 01:13:37.279
where I want to go now. I've been watching that
01:13:37.279 --> 01:13:42.000
circuit and it's everything you love. And everything
01:13:42.000 --> 01:13:45.720
you love about Lee climbing, plus you have the
01:13:45.720 --> 01:13:48.739
cold and you have ice falling and you have the
01:13:48.739 --> 01:13:52.359
possibility of axes falling on you. And a lot
01:13:52.359 --> 01:13:54.760
of us really want to get into that circuit. And
01:13:54.760 --> 01:13:58.920
fortunately, I've been contacted by the UIAA
01:13:58.920 --> 01:14:01.899
to have some discussions about belay standards
01:14:01.899 --> 01:14:05.000
in ice climbing. And I've been watching a lot
01:14:05.000 --> 01:14:09.119
of ice climbing lately and I'm aching to do it.
01:14:09.710 --> 01:14:12.569
Aching to do it. It looks super fun, super fulfilling.
01:14:12.750 --> 01:14:15.329
In fact, Matt Groom was like, you really have
01:14:15.329 --> 01:14:17.329
to get into the ice circuit, mate. And I'm like,
01:14:17.449 --> 01:14:19.529
really? Then I looked at it. I'm like, sure.
01:14:19.869 --> 01:14:22.430
So that's next for you. That's next for me. I'll
01:14:22.430 --> 01:14:26.029
be in a helmet and a puffer. Freezing, freezing,
01:14:26.149 --> 01:14:28.729
but loving it. Oh, yeah. So I guess you need
01:14:28.729 --> 01:14:31.050
the helmet for if the ice pick falls on you.
01:14:31.149 --> 01:14:33.930
What about your body that's still exposed? You
01:14:33.930 --> 01:14:38.189
have to be pretty keen on where you're standing.
01:14:39.369 --> 01:14:43.189
Has anyone actually dropped their ice pick during
01:14:43.189 --> 01:14:45.010
an ice climbing? Oh, it happens all the time.
01:14:45.210 --> 01:14:47.069
Oh, jeez. Yeah, all the time. Oh, that's terrifying.
01:14:47.069 --> 01:14:48.829
The setters have to have techniques in place
01:14:48.829 --> 01:14:53.909
to either retrieve a pick left up or, you know,
01:14:53.949 --> 01:14:58.590
yeah, they fall. Watch a couple championships.
01:14:58.770 --> 01:15:03.409
Those things come wailing down. Terrifying, but
01:15:03.409 --> 01:15:07.689
simultaneously terrifying and thrilling. I know
01:15:07.689 --> 01:15:10.520
someone who does this. ice belaying. And I know,
01:15:10.520 --> 01:15:15.439
I know athletes who compete and it's, yeah. So
01:15:15.439 --> 01:15:19.180
have you done it yet? Ever? Like any kind of
01:15:19.180 --> 01:15:21.779
ice climbing? I've only belayed like people simulating
01:15:21.779 --> 01:15:25.119
ice climbing, unlike logs, but never, never a
01:15:25.119 --> 01:15:29.460
competition and never on with real ice. And I
01:15:29.460 --> 01:15:32.600
hate cold. So there you go. Yeah. So then I'm
01:15:32.600 --> 01:15:36.960
not sure why you would do that. It may be one
01:15:36.960 --> 01:15:42.829
of the highest. tiers of belaying that could
01:15:42.829 --> 01:15:51.010
stand some unified processes and maybe not disparagingly,
01:15:51.010 --> 01:15:53.949
but professionalization. And I'd like to give
01:15:53.949 --> 01:15:58.310
it a go before I portend to be any sort of expert
01:15:58.310 --> 01:16:00.909
at it. I'd like to try it. Well, that'll be exciting.
01:16:01.010 --> 01:16:03.449
And I can't wait to see how that turns out. Let
01:16:03.449 --> 01:16:05.170
me know how it goes. I'd be really interested
01:16:05.170 --> 01:16:08.319
to hear about that. Yeah, I don't know. Okay,
01:16:08.319 --> 01:16:10.779
awesome. Well, good luck with that endeavor.
01:16:11.800 --> 01:16:14.020
Anything else you want to shout out or let people
01:16:14.020 --> 01:16:16.859
know where they can find you? I love my team.
01:16:16.880 --> 01:16:19.119
I love the people I work with. They are some
01:16:19.119 --> 01:16:21.800
of the most caring people in the world, all the
01:16:21.800 --> 01:16:24.699
way across the world to the layers and copper
01:16:24.699 --> 01:16:32.020
and my homie Helmut at the Swiss Alpine Club.
01:16:33.039 --> 01:16:35.399
People that love to belay are amazing humans
01:16:35.399 --> 01:16:37.520
and people that get good at it. I mean, like
01:16:37.520 --> 01:16:39.859
this woman Sawyer, she's been counting the number
01:16:39.859 --> 01:16:43.239
of climbs. She's already in one season a no -notes
01:16:43.239 --> 01:16:46.779
belayer. Nothing to say to her. But, you know,
01:16:46.819 --> 01:16:48.939
I'm around. You'll see me at comps. Come say
01:16:48.939 --> 01:16:54.420
hi. People I've met have told me how scary I
01:16:54.420 --> 01:16:56.600
am and intense I am. No, I'm just a goof that
01:16:56.600 --> 01:17:00.899
happens to. try to focus on on my job and i'm
01:17:00.899 --> 01:17:03.399
on you know instagram or whatever at underscore
01:17:03.399 --> 01:17:05.920
ty hardaway underscore because there's another
01:17:05.920 --> 01:17:08.500
ty hardaway had it who only has like three posts
01:17:08.500 --> 01:17:12.060
and i've asked him to to i told him i'd buy it
01:17:12.060 --> 01:17:14.899
from him but i'll go with the underscores well
01:17:14.899 --> 01:17:17.760
i came into instagram late because i discovered
01:17:17.760 --> 01:17:19.920
that some people that i really want to communicate
01:17:19.920 --> 01:17:21.680
with that's the only place i can communicate
01:17:21.680 --> 01:17:24.300
with them well i will link that below so no one
01:17:24.300 --> 01:17:26.880
goes to the wrong one and if anyone has questions
01:17:27.319 --> 01:17:30.880
Happy to try to answer them. I know a lot. I'm
01:17:30.880 --> 01:17:33.140
not perfect. I may not have all the answers,
01:17:33.199 --> 01:17:35.739
but I know a lot of people. Awesome. Well, thank
01:17:35.739 --> 01:17:37.939
you again. It was amazing to talk to you. Amazing
01:17:37.939 --> 01:17:40.699
to talk to you. Thank you so much for making
01:17:40.699 --> 01:17:43.039
it to the end of the podcast. Don't forget to
01:17:43.039 --> 01:17:45.220
like and subscribe if you enjoyed. Otherwise,
01:17:45.380 --> 01:17:48.680
you are a super big climber. If you're listening
01:17:48.680 --> 01:17:51.239
on a podcasting platform, I'd appreciate if you
01:17:51.239 --> 01:17:54.199
rate it five stars and you can continue the discussion
01:17:54.199 --> 01:17:57.359
on the free competition climbing discord linked
01:17:57.359 --> 01:17:59.819
in the description. Thanks again for listening.
