41: Antonin Pharel, IFSC Graphics Operator
Antonin is the graphics operator for the IFSC! In this episode, we’ll learn about why the IFSC chooses to use local production teams instead of their own production team and the difficulties that come with that, why graphics don’t show up sometimes, and we’ll hear about his thoughts on why the bouldering format is inherently broken for watching on TV.
Timestamps
Timestamps of discussion topics
0:00 - Intro
1:21 - Mad Rock Shoutout!!
2:08 - 5 weekends of work
5:23 - Best ISO Warm up zone
7:07 - What he does for IFSC
10:19 - The structure of IFSC broadcast
13:30 - Choosing between IFSC production or local
19:07 - What guidelines are given to local tv crews?
23:08 - Who is in charge of cinematic shot decisions?
36:43 - The difficulty showing bouldering on TV
43:05 - Considering the elimination boulder format?
46:33 - How to satisfy both climber and non-climbing audience
49:53 - Why do graphics lag behind/not show up?
54:41 - Can we have scores show on screen more often?
58:02 - Why putting up a clock is so difficult
1:02:39 - Traveling with a full camera set
1:07:47 - Dead body in SLC?!
1:12:46 - Climbing gym work
1:21:05 - Q: Do you ever rewatch comps?
1:23:34 - Q: Is it legal to stream the whole event as a spectator?
1:25:02 - Where to find Antonin and send further complaints :p
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WEBVTT
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.819
the non -climber audience is becoming the target
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for these live streams so bouldering in itself
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has a problem yeah like it's 50 meters away like
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you are working and people are having fun and
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there's some dude dying there in his sleep after
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a live i know what was wrong and what what was
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that yeah what Yeah, what was not good? I know
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it right away. Welcome to another episode of
00:00:32.969 --> 00:00:35.570
the That's Not Real Climbing Podcast. I'm your
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host, Jinni, and I'm excited to introduce my
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guest for today, Antonin Pharel. Antonin is
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the graphics operator for the IFSC. I know there's
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been a lot of complaints about World Cup broadcasts
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lately, so in this episode, I gathered all your
00:00:48.130 --> 00:00:50.670
hardest -hitting questions over on the internet's
00:00:50.670 --> 00:00:54.100
biggest hater platform, Reddit. In this episode,
00:00:54.159 --> 00:00:56.460
we'll learn about why the IFSC chooses to use
00:00:56.460 --> 00:00:58.539
local production teams instead of their own production
00:00:58.539 --> 00:01:01.159
team and the difficulties that come with that,
00:01:01.240 --> 00:01:04.719
why graphics don't show up sometimes, and we'll
00:01:04.719 --> 00:01:06.379
hear about his thoughts on why the bouldering
00:01:06.379 --> 00:01:09.159
format is inherently broken for watching on TV.
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I hope you enjoy this episode with Antonin. Real
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quick, I'm excited to announce my new sponsor
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Back to the show. How are you doing today? You
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have like a bit of a break between competitions.
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Actually, not really. I've come back yesterday
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from Bali for the World Cup in Bali. Before that,
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I was in Ke Xiao and Wu Jiang for the two World
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Cups. So that was quite a long tour in Asia,
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like three weeks. And I have two days home. So
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I have arrived yesterday. And then I'm taking
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the car again because this weekend there are
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the French Elite Championships that we are covering
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also. So I'm going there this weekend. And Monday,
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we take off to Brazil for the World Cup in Curitiba.
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So that's a good start of the season, like five
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weeks, five competitions. In five weekends. And
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all your flight and travel is covered for, right?
00:03:05.530 --> 00:03:12.789
Yeah, yeah, yes. So I have immobilized day, travel
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days, and yeah, everything is covered. So I don't
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have to pay for anything myself. And yeah, I'm
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paid to work, obviously. Yeah, it's a lot of
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not being at home. Do you manage to get much
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climbing in during the competition season? It
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depends on the events. It depends on the places.
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Obviously, it's difficult to keep, to maintain
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a regular rhythm of climbing. During the off
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-season in winter, usually I try to go climb
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mostly indoor because I don't have much time.
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Still, but like two or three times a week. But
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during the season, I've tried to fit in some
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little climbing time. Yeah, whenever we can.
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Sometimes it's only on the warm -up and the isolation
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zone. Some warm -up areas are very good for that.
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Some others are a bit less. But yeah, with people
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there, we try to set up some boulders. I mean,
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like what we did in Quechua with you. Yeah, did
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you feel like that's considered a pretty good
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isolation zone, right? Yeah, yeah, that's a pretty
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good one, yes. It's not on, like, I think athletes
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going to Wuzhang the week after, they were complaining
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a bit because in Wuzhang, for example, it's a
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very, very long wall. It's just a big traverse,
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but quite short. I don't think it's more than
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two meters high, for example, and it's... not
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not overhanging so it's always the same kind
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of feature slabby vertical but slightly overhanging
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maybe but even though the holds are quite good
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you can't really do a lot of things on this kind
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of warm -up wall so yeah i know that the athletes
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are complaining a little bit about this wall
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and yeah i've Actually, we didn't climb there.
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What's the best ISO warm -up zone that you've
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been to or seen? Crachow is quite nice, actually.
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Yeah, it's one of the best, I would say. The
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one in Bali last week was quite nice also. So
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they had put it in a tent. We didn't climb there,
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but from what I saw, it was... Pretty nice. Maybe
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a bit smaller than Keishao, but it was in a tent
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with air conditioning. That's helpful. Yeah,
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that's very helpful. All the tents have air conditioning.
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Yeah, but yes, this one was good. Let me think.
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The one in Chamonix is quite nice also. Also,
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we don't climb much there because it's directly
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in the Ensar. So it's the gymnasium, not the
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gymnasium, the climbing gym for the local club
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there in Chamonix. So it's quite nice. And it's
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where there are some Romain Desgrange. I don't
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know if you know him. It's like a French athlete.
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And he's now a coach. And it's basically where
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he trained, etc. quite a good good space with
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a lot of bouldering and so yeah quite quite good
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uh warm -up area um yeah i mean it varies from
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place to place but yeah and of course in salt
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lake now there is a tc which is quite a good
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warm -up zone also. Okay, so getting into a bit
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of what you do for the IFSC. I guess most people
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probably don't know too much about you or who
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you might be. So what do you do for the IFSC
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and how did you get involved? So yeah, probably
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not a lot of people know me. I'm the graphic
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operator in the IFSC broadcast team. I'm the
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one displaying the names, the results, all kinds
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of graphics that goes on top of the live stream.
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So during the live, I'm displaying that and etc.
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And I'm also in some events in charge of setting
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up cameras, mostly on the walls. I'm the one
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putting up the cameras on the walls. It's my
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task, but I can help. other team members to do
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some other things. So yes, I have varied tasks,
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but these are my main two, like graphic operator
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and PTZ camera. So PTZ, it's the cameras on the
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wall. It's pan, tilt, and zoom. It's remote cameras
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that are controlled directly in the control room.
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And yes, there is a dedicated operator that manages
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them. All right. What cameras on the walls, like
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actually on the walls? Or do you mean just like
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filming like close -ups of the wall? They are
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fixed on the wall. So yeah, you can see them
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on the stream. Sometimes, yeah, in most of the
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time in bouldering, you can see some. masts how
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do you say like sticks sticking out of the top
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of the walls and there are some cameras hanging
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there so on bouldering we put at least three
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maybe four cameras so we get shots of the tops
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and they are mostly used to get some close shots
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not from the back from behind Because most of
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the shots in climbing are from behind, right?
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So the big advantage of these cameras directly
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fixed on the wall is that it allows us to get
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some closer shots and some shots of the faces
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and from above. So the counterpart is that usually
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the walls are shaking a little bit, so the cameras
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are quite shaky. Sometimes. It depends on the
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walls. Again, from structure to structure, it
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can vary a lot. But yeah, we installed them on
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bouldering and in lead also. So in lead, we usually
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display three. So one at the top, we get the
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top shot for both routes. And two on the sides,
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on the head wall. Just to get a broader overview
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of the rest of the production team at the IFSC,
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because you just mainly do the graphics, how
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does the rest of the production team work? It
00:10:29.889 --> 00:10:35.350
depends a bit. The season, so there are how many
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events? There are 12 events on a season, something
00:10:37.769 --> 00:10:42.289
like that. It starts from April to October. We
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have a broadcast team linked to the IFSC. So
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we are directly hired by the IFSC. And sometimes
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we do the full production. Sometimes we are only
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on support because it's local productions handling
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the whole live stream. And yes. So for example,
00:11:11.529 --> 00:11:16.129
In China, it's local production. So it was a
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Chinese crew doing, installing all the cameras,
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doing the full live stream, etc. Me, I'm still
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there to display the graphics. And we are, in
00:11:29.350 --> 00:11:31.809
cases like that, we are there on support. It
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means that we make sure that the... standards
00:11:36.720 --> 00:11:41.799
required for the IFSC live streams are followed.
00:11:42.100 --> 00:11:47.700
So the live streams are well sent to the TVs
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that have the rights for them. And we make sure
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that the rundown, the running order is well followed.
00:11:58.899 --> 00:12:03.679
So it's, for example... Yeah, we have a rundown.
00:12:03.740 --> 00:12:07.700
So at that time, the live stream starts. At this
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time, 30 seconds later, we need to display the
00:12:10.659 --> 00:12:14.000
start list, etc. So we have a full schedule to
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follow and we make sure that this schedule is
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well followed by the local crews. And yes, we
00:12:23.120 --> 00:12:26.279
try to give some advices on how to film climbing
00:12:26.279 --> 00:12:29.950
and things like that. So that's... For the cases
00:12:29.950 --> 00:12:32.809
where we don't do the full production, we are
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there on support. And then there are some events
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where we are hired to do the full production.
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So like in Bali last week, for example. So in
00:12:43.570 --> 00:12:48.029
that case, our team is a bit broader. So we are
00:12:48.029 --> 00:12:54.980
six plus some cameramen. So we have dedicated
00:12:54.980 --> 00:12:58.379
roles. So me, I'm graphic operator. There is
00:12:58.379 --> 00:13:03.519
one that is a director. There is a sound engineer,
00:13:03.740 --> 00:13:09.279
vision engineer, etc. But yeah, it's still a
00:13:09.279 --> 00:13:13.440
reduced team compared to what you can see in...
00:13:14.740 --> 00:13:19.379
in yeah in other local tv productions like it's
00:13:19.379 --> 00:13:22.460
we arrive with a lot of boxes we set up the thing
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but if you look at local productions they arrive
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with a big truck with way more people and things
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like that so and so why in like kachow for example
00:13:34.539 --> 00:13:37.639
was it decided to only do support instead of
00:13:37.639 --> 00:13:40.700
have a full production yourself it's decided
00:13:40.700 --> 00:13:47.110
by the IFSC and the organizer so how it works
00:13:47.110 --> 00:13:54.169
is like organizers proposes to host a world cup
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and I don't know exactly how that works because
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I'm not involved in this in this deals etc but
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from what I understand is like the organizers
00:14:05.970 --> 00:14:11.929
is proposing to to have a local production crew
00:14:11.929 --> 00:14:16.809
who is going to realize the live stream and then
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they will get some TV rights for national TVs,
00:14:20.549 --> 00:14:24.049
for example, or for other production. I don't
00:14:24.049 --> 00:14:28.710
know. So that is the deal. So the organizers
00:14:28.710 --> 00:14:34.149
propose these services and they get the TV rights
00:14:34.149 --> 00:14:39.110
for their local channels. That's the case in
00:14:39.110 --> 00:14:46.070
quite a lot of events now. Before 2020, we were
00:14:46.070 --> 00:14:49.730
still doing most of the productions. But now
00:14:49.730 --> 00:14:57.330
in Slovenia, it's local TV. In the World Championships,
00:14:57.610 --> 00:15:02.750
it's local TV now in Seoul. It will be KBS doing
00:15:02.750 --> 00:15:08.399
that. So in China now, after COVID, it's local
00:15:08.399 --> 00:15:13.100
crews. But even before, the crew from the Olympics,
00:15:13.159 --> 00:15:19.139
for example, it was a Chinese production. And
00:15:19.139 --> 00:15:23.659
there were training in Chongqing 2019, I think,
00:15:23.700 --> 00:15:27.000
already. So this time already, it was not us
00:15:27.000 --> 00:15:30.159
doing the production. But before that, until
00:15:30.159 --> 00:15:33.639
Wuzhong 2019, we were doing the production in
00:15:33.639 --> 00:15:37.019
China also. So you're working towards doing fewer
00:15:37.019 --> 00:15:40.720
productions? Yes, we do fewer productions. I
00:15:40.720 --> 00:15:43.759
mean, this year, actually, we do quite a lot
00:15:43.759 --> 00:15:48.259
compared to last year. Because there are new
00:15:48.259 --> 00:15:54.399
venues and there are some organizers don't find
00:15:54.399 --> 00:15:59.620
local producers. So instead, we do the production.
00:15:59.860 --> 00:16:04.230
So in Brazil, for example, it will be us. Usually
00:16:04.230 --> 00:16:09.509
when it's a new event, we do the first production.
00:16:09.809 --> 00:16:19.110
So like in Prague, it was 2023. The first edition
00:16:19.110 --> 00:16:22.269
in Prague, it was us doing the production. And
00:16:22.269 --> 00:16:26.590
last year, 2024, it was a local TV crew doing
00:16:26.590 --> 00:16:30.490
it. And it will be again a local team also doing
00:16:30.490 --> 00:16:33.409
the production this year also. so like the goal
00:16:33.409 --> 00:16:36.289
is to eventually have a local production do it
00:16:36.289 --> 00:16:39.309
because i guess for consistency's sake it seems
00:16:39.309 --> 00:16:43.070
like people expect that it would usually be an
00:16:43.070 --> 00:16:47.429
ifsc production the big plus for to have a local
00:16:47.429 --> 00:16:51.190
production is like they get the tv rights right
00:16:51.190 --> 00:16:58.210
so it means that um the live streams is broadcast
00:16:58.210 --> 00:17:02.799
on the national tv so why do organizers want
00:17:02.799 --> 00:17:05.299
to organize the World Cup. It's so they have
00:17:05.299 --> 00:17:09.839
local spectators, local audience, and the fact
00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:13.359
that they also want to have a local producer
00:17:13.359 --> 00:17:16.519
is so they can have the TV rights for their audience.
00:17:16.900 --> 00:17:20.779
So it's just to present climbing in their country,
00:17:20.920 --> 00:17:27.039
basically. So that's understandable. After, to
00:17:27.039 --> 00:17:32.319
have consistency from one... event to the next
00:17:32.319 --> 00:17:36.720
for sure it's a bit more complicated if we change
00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:40.059
crews from one event to the next but yeah that's
00:17:40.059 --> 00:17:43.000
why we are there on support it's to try to give
00:17:43.000 --> 00:17:47.059
guidelines and to to make sure first that the
00:17:47.059 --> 00:17:51.779
live streams follow the required standards and
00:17:51.779 --> 00:17:56.740
we are there to try to give advice also how to
00:17:56.740 --> 00:18:01.990
film climbing Sometimes they are followed, sometimes
00:18:01.990 --> 00:18:11.049
they do a bit how they want. But yeah, usually
00:18:11.049 --> 00:18:14.369
it goes quite well after one live or two. If
00:18:14.369 --> 00:18:18.569
you look at the first live streams, there is
00:18:18.569 --> 00:18:23.309
an improvement from, let's say, semifinals to
00:18:23.309 --> 00:18:27.670
finals. In finals, usually it's quite better
00:18:27.670 --> 00:18:32.029
quality. While the first live streams, it's still
00:18:32.029 --> 00:18:39.750
a moment of trying and errors and trials. And
00:18:39.750 --> 00:18:44.690
from one year to the next, the productions improve
00:18:44.690 --> 00:18:48.950
also. So if they do every year the same production,
00:18:49.309 --> 00:18:54.410
they improve from one year to the next. Yeah,
00:18:54.410 --> 00:18:57.210
obviously there's a lot of like... online discourse
00:18:57.210 --> 00:19:01.549
about um how the production runs um what what
00:19:01.549 --> 00:19:05.349
the broadcast looks like um i gathered some questions
00:19:05.349 --> 00:19:07.910
from reddit since i think that's where they have
00:19:07.910 --> 00:19:11.690
the most strongest opinions about uh about the
00:19:11.690 --> 00:19:15.029
broadcast and so like what guidelines specifically
00:19:15.029 --> 00:19:18.410
are given to ensure consistent product and also
00:19:18.410 --> 00:19:21.509
the big one being uh like the split screen issue
00:19:21.509 --> 00:19:27.420
that we saw in kajal yeah so um Of course, we
00:19:27.420 --> 00:19:29.920
are here on support. So our first task is to
00:19:29.920 --> 00:19:32.440
make sure that the live stream is well delivered
00:19:32.440 --> 00:19:39.200
to the people paying for it. So deals with the
00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:44.160
FSC and usually the local crews are handling
00:19:44.160 --> 00:19:46.980
themselves the signal going for their local TV.
00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:51.640
That's a main task. Make sure that there is a
00:19:51.640 --> 00:19:56.259
live stream happening. Then the second... part
00:19:56.259 --> 00:20:01.339
of our job is to make sure that to ensure a quality
00:20:01.339 --> 00:20:04.839
and of the live stream and consistency from one
00:20:04.839 --> 00:20:07.960
event to the next and here we give some advice
00:20:07.960 --> 00:20:13.940
on how to film the sport um but we are sometimes
00:20:13.940 --> 00:20:22.410
often uh facing some issues uh like the The crews
00:20:22.410 --> 00:20:25.289
we are talking to, sometimes they are well known
00:20:25.289 --> 00:20:29.289
in the sport. They are filming some sport at
00:20:29.289 --> 00:20:32.710
the Olympics, etc. And as we arrive, we are only
00:20:32.710 --> 00:20:38.470
three people filming climbing. So us giving advice
00:20:38.470 --> 00:20:44.109
to these big crews of 40 plus people. Yeah, it's
00:20:44.109 --> 00:20:49.329
sometimes we are not heard that well. Sometimes
00:20:49.329 --> 00:20:56.210
we have also some communication issues. So like
00:20:56.210 --> 00:21:00.569
in Keishao, for example, we had an interpreter.
00:21:02.269 --> 00:21:09.329
Yes. Who was not speaking that well English either.
00:21:09.890 --> 00:21:15.430
So it's always a bit... And also she was not...
00:21:17.769 --> 00:21:21.930
So she was hired by the local crew, but she was
00:21:21.930 --> 00:21:27.130
not working in media. So it was the first time
00:21:27.130 --> 00:21:29.410
working with them. So she didn't necessarily
00:21:29.410 --> 00:21:36.390
know the relevant words, like the specific vocabulary
00:21:36.390 --> 00:21:41.769
for what a white shot is, what format of video
00:21:41.769 --> 00:21:48.849
this is, etc. So it's always... sometimes a constant
00:21:48.849 --> 00:21:51.650
struggle on trying to be understood, trying to
00:21:51.650 --> 00:21:56.309
understand what is needed, etc. So that's a lot
00:21:56.309 --> 00:22:02.109
of meetings back and forth, for example. So that's
00:22:02.109 --> 00:22:07.009
another issue we are facing. And to make sure
00:22:07.009 --> 00:22:10.309
that there is a live and that the basic quality
00:22:10.309 --> 00:22:14.710
of the live is covered, we need to make sure
00:22:14.710 --> 00:22:18.670
that... first climbing is filmed and then we
00:22:18.670 --> 00:22:22.089
can introduce a split screen and then yeah so
00:22:22.089 --> 00:22:26.450
it's one step at a time to make sure that yeah
00:22:26.450 --> 00:22:29.950
we can't some yeah in case how i we could not
00:22:29.950 --> 00:22:33.210
cover everything in one go for the semi -finals
00:22:33.210 --> 00:22:37.230
and finals for the women for example but we could
00:22:37.230 --> 00:22:41.730
make it work uh for the men's the day after and
00:22:41.730 --> 00:22:46.910
that's how we improve And after, in Nubujang,
00:22:47.150 --> 00:22:50.410
the week after, it was the same crew, which was
00:22:50.410 --> 00:22:53.509
nice because we could start. We already knew
00:22:53.509 --> 00:22:55.930
each other. We knew how to communicate. We knew,
00:22:56.049 --> 00:23:01.089
yeah, they already knew the rundown also a little
00:23:01.089 --> 00:23:05.990
bit. So it was already easier to make sure that
00:23:05.990 --> 00:23:08.849
the live stream was following some guidelines
00:23:08.849 --> 00:23:11.839
like that. Another thing people on Reddit asked
00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:14.099
about was kind of about like the cinematic shots,
00:23:14.440 --> 00:23:18.960
like foot chips, hold closeups. Is that a direction
00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:22.000
from the IFSC or do the local crews do that themselves?
00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:26.180
In the control room, there is a director and
00:23:26.180 --> 00:23:31.220
sometimes he's switching the cameras himself.
00:23:31.339 --> 00:23:35.400
Sometimes he's behind and saying to his operator
00:23:35.400 --> 00:23:37.680
to, okay, camera one, camera two, et cetera.
00:23:39.789 --> 00:23:45.269
That's up to the TV crew to decide how much beauty
00:23:45.269 --> 00:23:50.750
shots. The direction is up to the TV crew. We
00:23:50.750 --> 00:23:57.190
can give some guidelines again. The main guideline
00:23:57.190 --> 00:24:01.670
is make sure that the cameraman keeps enough
00:24:01.670 --> 00:24:06.710
space above the climber so we have at least two,
00:24:06.789 --> 00:24:11.059
three... holds above so you can see where the
00:24:11.059 --> 00:24:13.720
climber is going it's it's not evident for people
00:24:13.720 --> 00:24:16.039
not knowing the sport sometimes they center the
00:24:16.039 --> 00:24:21.240
climber and so you see uh holds below no you
00:24:21.240 --> 00:24:25.660
need to to leave some space above um it's not
00:24:25.660 --> 00:24:30.420
it's just simple things like that and the thing
00:24:30.420 --> 00:24:35.809
is like is a tv crew is in the end the one the
00:24:35.809 --> 00:24:38.309
director is in the end the one taking the decisions
00:24:38.309 --> 00:24:42.650
of how the live stream looks like. So if there
00:24:42.650 --> 00:24:50.029
is a director very happy with his setup, with
00:24:50.029 --> 00:24:56.170
big lenses, with cameras being able to zoom a
00:24:56.170 --> 00:25:02.769
lot on small holes and maybe some crane doing
00:25:02.769 --> 00:25:06.279
some... Very nice moves along the walls and things
00:25:06.279 --> 00:25:12.720
like that. Of course, he will want to use these
00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:18.720
tools. They are quite expensive. There is a nice
00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:25.700
show, light show. It looks very nice, but maybe
00:25:25.700 --> 00:25:32.839
it doesn't show climbing as it should be. just
00:25:32.839 --> 00:25:37.279
because you don't follow the action as you would
00:25:37.279 --> 00:25:39.839
want to follow the action if you are a climber
00:25:39.839 --> 00:25:45.960
yourself. So in my opinion, close shots like
00:25:45.960 --> 00:25:49.579
that, they should be maybe two seconds on air,
00:25:49.720 --> 00:25:54.880
three seconds at max. If you have an action,
00:25:55.019 --> 00:25:58.000
like if the climber is moving, you want to show
00:25:58.000 --> 00:26:01.539
the hold. two, three seconds. If you go more
00:26:01.539 --> 00:26:06.640
than that, of course, you lose something. But
00:26:06.640 --> 00:26:10.539
again, that's difficult to say to some directors.
00:26:11.099 --> 00:26:16.299
And of course, you could keep that for replays.
00:26:16.299 --> 00:26:19.140
And usually, these directors, they use replay
00:26:19.140 --> 00:26:23.859
a lot just because they have a lot more shots,
00:26:23.920 --> 00:26:28.720
a lot more cameras. we do for example so they
00:26:28.720 --> 00:26:33.500
have a lot of mean at their disposition and the
00:26:33.500 --> 00:26:37.240
replays are usually quite long which also cuts
00:26:37.240 --> 00:26:41.819
the action so the next athletes needs to wait
00:26:41.819 --> 00:26:45.000
to enter for example and you have longer live
00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:48.359
streams for example so that's also something
00:26:48.359 --> 00:26:53.460
that could be smoothened a bit but yeah again
00:26:53.460 --> 00:26:57.109
it's The last decision is by the director in
00:26:57.109 --> 00:26:59.069
the end. Yeah, I wonder if you could just tell
00:26:59.069 --> 00:27:03.269
them climbers will go and grab their chalk a
00:27:03.269 --> 00:27:07.109
lot, so that's a good time to show replays or
00:27:07.109 --> 00:27:10.529
close -ups. Yeah, I mean, there are some directors
00:27:10.529 --> 00:27:14.690
who put some replays even during the four minutes
00:27:14.690 --> 00:27:18.450
in the boulder finals. While people are resting,
00:27:18.630 --> 00:27:22.450
they put some replays, etc. There are some crews
00:27:22.450 --> 00:27:28.180
that have... like two or three replay operators
00:27:28.180 --> 00:27:33.140
preparing replays all the time. So of course,
00:27:33.160 --> 00:27:36.279
they have the possibility to put some replays
00:27:36.279 --> 00:27:38.660
at any time during the show. And of course, it
00:27:38.660 --> 00:27:43.220
removes these little dead times that can cut
00:27:43.220 --> 00:27:47.160
a bit the rhythm in the final, for example. But
00:27:47.160 --> 00:27:50.519
yeah, it's a question of balance. Sometimes I
00:27:50.519 --> 00:27:54.240
feel like... When TV productions have a lot of
00:27:54.240 --> 00:27:59.420
cameras, etc., it's too much. And the thing is
00:27:59.420 --> 00:28:01.819
also you need to consider that there are different
00:28:01.819 --> 00:28:06.980
kinds of audiences for climbing. Most, like we
00:28:06.980 --> 00:28:09.920
are climbers, so we know what we like to see.
00:28:10.019 --> 00:28:17.059
We usually like to see a wide shot and you see
00:28:17.059 --> 00:28:20.890
the full. the full climb and then you see the
00:28:20.890 --> 00:28:23.910
full movement of the climber. And you don't necessarily
00:28:23.910 --> 00:28:27.789
need some closer shots because instinctively,
00:28:27.890 --> 00:28:31.930
you know what the holes look like, but just by
00:28:31.930 --> 00:28:35.309
the look of it, you know how hard they are. And
00:28:35.309 --> 00:28:41.210
there is a less experienced audience who don't
00:28:41.210 --> 00:28:46.799
necessarily have these reflexes. of understanding
00:28:46.799 --> 00:28:49.819
why the climber is doing that at this moment
00:28:49.819 --> 00:28:53.859
and they are more interested by beauty shots
00:28:53.859 --> 00:28:58.160
and also they need some to see their holes much
00:28:58.160 --> 00:29:04.180
closer and to maybe understand what what are
00:29:04.180 --> 00:29:07.039
the holes like because you see if you have an
00:29:07.039 --> 00:29:09.660
experienced eye maybe you see the crimp okay
00:29:09.660 --> 00:29:16.349
it's very small but maybe for a non -climber
00:29:16.349 --> 00:29:20.549
audience you need to wow to stay more than three
00:29:20.549 --> 00:29:22.630
seconds on the small holds and oh is he holding
00:29:22.630 --> 00:29:25.309
me like that that makes sense i like seeing the
00:29:25.309 --> 00:29:30.710
small ones too yeah it's so and the thing is
00:29:30.710 --> 00:29:36.769
like the idea to have tv crews local tv crews
00:29:36.769 --> 00:29:42.130
and um the live streams being displayed broadcast
00:29:42.130 --> 00:29:46.329
on local channels it's just to reach a non -climber
00:29:46.329 --> 00:29:49.890
audience the non -climber audience is kind of
00:29:49.890 --> 00:29:54.809
becoming the target for these live streams so
00:29:54.809 --> 00:29:57.150
that the thing like the the climber audience
00:29:57.150 --> 00:30:02.269
is vocal about it it's maybe it's just it's still
00:30:02.269 --> 00:30:05.569
a minority of the the watchers i don't know if
00:30:05.569 --> 00:30:07.509
you've had experience with like other sports
00:30:07.509 --> 00:30:11.220
productions um do you know if they go like a
00:30:11.220 --> 00:30:13.859
similar route where they use local teams every
00:30:13.859 --> 00:30:17.200
time and there's not as much consistency because
00:30:17.200 --> 00:30:20.279
i guess my only other experience with like watching
00:30:20.279 --> 00:30:24.359
other sports broadcasts is maybe like broadcasts
00:30:24.359 --> 00:30:26.400
that are more just within the u .s so i don't
00:30:26.400 --> 00:30:29.779
think travel is as difficult but for more like
00:30:29.779 --> 00:30:34.609
global productions i guess maybe like F1 or something
00:30:34.609 --> 00:30:36.490
like that I've never watched it so I don't actually
00:30:36.490 --> 00:30:39.029
know if they're consistent or like have consistent
00:30:39.029 --> 00:30:42.410
angles or anything like that do you have any
00:30:42.410 --> 00:30:44.470
like comparisons on what other TV productions
00:30:44.470 --> 00:30:50.690
do so my team is working with the FSC since 2016
00:30:50.690 --> 00:30:54.890
something like that so that's and me I've arrived
00:30:54.890 --> 00:31:00.990
at the FSC in 2018 and so I'm covering most of
00:31:00.990 --> 00:31:06.210
the World Cup since then And in my team, I'm
00:31:06.210 --> 00:31:11.390
almost the only climber. So, yeah, but they are
00:31:11.390 --> 00:31:13.809
quite experienced, especially the director is
00:31:13.809 --> 00:31:17.869
very good. And he understands the sport quite
00:31:17.869 --> 00:31:22.490
well. He's quite invested in it. And I think
00:31:22.490 --> 00:31:27.490
he is very good at just covering the sport, in
00:31:27.490 --> 00:31:31.759
my opinion. So it's not a problem that he's not
00:31:31.759 --> 00:31:37.279
a climber. On the other hand, my team is also
00:31:37.279 --> 00:31:41.079
covering some other sports, especially ski. They
00:31:41.079 --> 00:31:44.579
are coming from the ski. Before that, they were
00:31:44.579 --> 00:31:49.319
doing ski events. And yeah, I don't remember
00:31:49.319 --> 00:31:51.700
exactly what they are doing. And from this year,
00:31:51.759 --> 00:31:57.190
they also cover the ski mountaineering. So they
00:31:57.190 --> 00:32:00.069
do the production for that also. So they have
00:32:00.069 --> 00:32:04.049
some experience in other sports. Me personally,
00:32:04.309 --> 00:32:09.670
I don't. So I can't really compare from one production
00:32:09.670 --> 00:32:12.329
to one sport to the next, how the productions
00:32:12.329 --> 00:32:18.529
are doing. I know that in Schemo, they do most
00:32:18.529 --> 00:32:21.789
of the productions also. I suppose that from
00:32:21.789 --> 00:32:27.230
one, from big... For big sports like F1, Formula
00:32:27.230 --> 00:32:32.369
1, I think it's local crews maybe. I don't know.
00:32:32.809 --> 00:32:38.529
Okay. But Formula 1 is such a big sport that
00:32:38.529 --> 00:32:42.329
for sure all these crews, they know how to produce
00:32:42.329 --> 00:32:45.109
it. And that will be the same crews doing that
00:32:45.109 --> 00:32:49.869
every year for many years. Okay. So maybe we
00:32:49.869 --> 00:32:52.720
just have some growing pains. Yeah, it's still
00:32:52.720 --> 00:32:55.980
growing. It's not like soccer also. I mean, in
00:32:55.980 --> 00:32:59.859
soccer also, it will be different crews depending
00:32:59.859 --> 00:33:05.039
on the stadium. It will never be many trucks
00:33:05.039 --> 00:33:07.940
moving around Europe, for example, to cover.
00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:10.940
It will be local crews all the time, I think.
00:33:11.440 --> 00:33:15.400
Okay. But it's not a problem because the sport
00:33:15.400 --> 00:33:20.140
is so well spread that there are some... yeah
00:33:20.140 --> 00:33:22.819
there is some theory behind it like okay there
00:33:22.819 --> 00:33:26.240
is this and white shot then there you can go
00:33:26.240 --> 00:33:28.720
close shot and things like that it's not like
00:33:28.720 --> 00:33:35.539
climbing has been theorized yet uh to to cover
00:33:35.539 --> 00:33:38.039
it yeah i guess we just kind of need that time
00:33:38.039 --> 00:33:41.980
for it to be uh to like come up with a consistent
00:33:41.980 --> 00:33:44.579
maybe like a baseline of what it should look
00:33:44.579 --> 00:33:49.099
like yeah i think the One attempt to do that
00:33:49.099 --> 00:33:54.059
was by this director in Austria. So the one who
00:33:54.059 --> 00:33:59.960
is producing the live streams in Innsbruck every
00:33:59.960 --> 00:34:04.740
year for some years now. And also who covered
00:34:04.740 --> 00:34:10.940
the Munich Championships in 2022. I think he
00:34:10.940 --> 00:34:16.829
is quite invested in... pushing the sport on
00:34:16.829 --> 00:34:22.230
how to broadcast it and I think he had it's the
00:34:22.230 --> 00:34:30.730
first attempt to really theorize it on AAA production
00:34:30.730 --> 00:34:35.230
because I can't say that our crew is AAA I mean
00:34:35.230 --> 00:34:39.389
we are six people plus four cameramen so we can't
00:34:39.389 --> 00:34:43.840
pretend to be like the big production that produces
00:34:43.840 --> 00:34:48.360
national TVs every week and we don't have a big
00:34:48.360 --> 00:34:50.739
truck, et cetera. So we might have some theories,
00:34:50.860 --> 00:34:53.579
et cetera, but... Wait, but what does... Yeah,
00:34:54.219 --> 00:35:03.619
like big production. Okay. Yeah. So I think this
00:35:03.619 --> 00:35:07.400
Austrian director is the first one who really
00:35:07.400 --> 00:35:11.139
started to really think the sport. and how to
00:35:11.139 --> 00:35:16.840
make it look good on TV. And I think more and
00:35:16.840 --> 00:35:21.920
more producers will do that. I think in the Czech
00:35:21.920 --> 00:35:26.420
producers also in Prague, they are quite interested
00:35:26.420 --> 00:35:31.739
in showing climbing just because maybe, I don't
00:35:31.739 --> 00:35:34.119
know, there is Adam Andra also and he's a national
00:35:34.119 --> 00:35:39.610
legend also. Because of that, because climbing
00:35:39.610 --> 00:35:43.530
is so well spread in Austria, because there is
00:35:43.530 --> 00:35:46.789
Adam Ondra in Czech Republic, and maybe also
00:35:46.789 --> 00:35:49.530
because there is Jamia Garnbret in Slovenia,
00:35:49.550 --> 00:35:53.949
all these producers are interested in the sport
00:35:53.949 --> 00:35:56.849
directly. And because they are doing it over
00:35:56.849 --> 00:36:00.789
and over, year after year, I think in the end
00:36:00.789 --> 00:36:03.329
there will be a quality raising up like that.
00:36:04.380 --> 00:36:07.320
just because the experience is building up. But
00:36:07.320 --> 00:36:13.119
if you do one event a year, of course, you can't
00:36:13.119 --> 00:36:18.860
have... I mean, it takes time. And they are looking
00:36:18.860 --> 00:36:23.340
at what everybody is doing. So when we see them
00:36:23.340 --> 00:36:28.900
and they come to see us, to... to get advice,
00:36:29.059 --> 00:36:32.639
et cetera, we see that they have watched some
00:36:32.639 --> 00:36:35.440
other live streams. So, OK, you do it like that.
00:36:35.619 --> 00:36:38.699
So we put these graphics at this time. And so
00:36:38.699 --> 00:36:42.300
they are looking, they are preparing like that
00:36:42.300 --> 00:36:46.039
also. That's good. The most invested ones. Yeah.
00:36:46.539 --> 00:36:49.480
Yeah, you mentioned that there are some challenges
00:36:49.480 --> 00:36:52.039
of filming Climbing for TV and that there are
00:36:52.039 --> 00:36:54.360
difficulties specifically showing bouldering.
00:36:54.559 --> 00:36:58.260
Why is that? What makes it difficult? It's inherent
00:36:58.260 --> 00:37:02.579
to bouldering itself, like the format of bouldering.
00:37:02.760 --> 00:37:05.340
Please excuse this brief intermission, but if
00:37:05.340 --> 00:37:07.019
you're interested in deleted scenes from this
00:37:07.019 --> 00:37:10.199
episode where we get his thoughts on the high
00:37:10.199 --> 00:37:13.719
production quality at 2025 Plywood Masters, and
00:37:13.719 --> 00:37:16.019
we also get his soul travel recommendations,
00:37:16.460 --> 00:37:19.780
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to help out non -monetarily, liking, commenting
00:37:39.599 --> 00:37:42.679
and sharing helps a great deal as well. Back
00:37:42.679 --> 00:37:46.920
to the show. For TV, for example, what you want
00:37:46.920 --> 00:37:54.119
to see. in in a sport is like um the winner of
00:37:54.119 --> 00:37:57.420
the competition you want to see him or her the
00:37:57.420 --> 00:38:01.920
most time on the on the screen right so in lead
00:38:01.920 --> 00:38:08.320
it's it's it's obvious like the the one who goes
00:38:08.320 --> 00:38:12.019
the highest uh wins the competition so the one
00:38:12.019 --> 00:38:15.019
uh the longest on the wall wins the competition
00:38:15.880 --> 00:38:20.320
The person who falls at three plus, you don't
00:38:20.320 --> 00:38:24.360
see him or her much. Fine. That's perfect. The
00:38:24.360 --> 00:38:28.039
problem with bouldering is like if you have someone
00:38:28.039 --> 00:38:32.940
who can't start a boulder and can't establish
00:38:32.940 --> 00:38:36.420
the start position and struggles for four minutes
00:38:36.420 --> 00:38:42.300
straight on the mat, it's boring. And then you
00:38:42.300 --> 00:38:45.920
have Janja arriving. And she flashes, she demonstrates
00:38:45.920 --> 00:38:48.340
how to do every boulders. She's there on the
00:38:48.340 --> 00:38:52.340
mat for like, on the screen, she's two minutes
00:38:52.340 --> 00:38:55.800
on the wall for two hours of live streams. I
00:38:55.800 --> 00:39:00.260
see. So there is, for bouldering, the shorter
00:39:00.260 --> 00:39:04.539
you are on the wall, the better you do. You are
00:39:04.539 --> 00:39:09.179
probably the winner. And it's not exactly what
00:39:09.179 --> 00:39:12.179
you see in most of the sports. In most of the
00:39:12.179 --> 00:39:14.820
sports, The winner is the one who has the most
00:39:14.820 --> 00:39:20.239
attention, who gets the most shots, the most
00:39:20.239 --> 00:39:26.480
time on screen, etc. So bouldering in itself
00:39:26.480 --> 00:39:34.500
has a problem. It's not exactly... From a climber
00:39:34.500 --> 00:39:37.539
point of view, in my opinion, it's the most interesting
00:39:37.539 --> 00:39:41.059
to watch just because it's so varied. Like you
00:39:41.059 --> 00:39:45.559
have... You have slabs, you have overhang, you
00:39:45.559 --> 00:39:50.719
have every type of move. Some people complain
00:39:50.719 --> 00:39:54.679
that there are some too weird moves, not enough
00:39:54.679 --> 00:39:59.119
outdoorsy moves, not enough old school moves.
00:39:59.280 --> 00:40:03.239
But in the end, you have all these moves anyway
00:40:03.239 --> 00:40:07.019
in Boulder, maybe. Sometimes it's not balanced
00:40:07.019 --> 00:40:09.139
enough. Maybe sometimes there is too much of
00:40:09.139 --> 00:40:10.980
this type of move and not enough of the rest.
00:40:11.119 --> 00:40:14.559
But if you compare bouldering to lead, lead is
00:40:14.559 --> 00:40:17.179
always overhanging. You will never have a slab
00:40:17.179 --> 00:40:21.039
in a lead competition. For example, it happened
00:40:21.039 --> 00:40:25.000
maybe in the 90s in the first competitions and
00:40:25.000 --> 00:40:29.559
people were just finding weird rest positions
00:40:29.559 --> 00:40:33.619
and they were staying on the wall for... 13 minutes
00:40:33.619 --> 00:40:37.199
30 minutes and uh people get yeah because there
00:40:37.199 --> 00:40:39.599
was no time limit also so oh that's terrible
00:40:39.599 --> 00:40:42.659
yeah exactly so they were climbing up they were
00:40:42.659 --> 00:40:46.079
climbing down uh checking the moves going down
00:40:46.079 --> 00:40:50.139
and resting forever oh that sucks yeah so that's
00:40:50.139 --> 00:40:54.320
why the walls got much more overhanging and that's
00:40:54.320 --> 00:40:57.699
why the road setters are not setting knee bars
00:40:57.699 --> 00:41:01.579
where people can rest indefinitely and yeah the
00:41:01.579 --> 00:41:04.929
other thing things like that but in bouldering
00:41:04.929 --> 00:41:08.630
from a climber point of view it's quite interesting
00:41:08.630 --> 00:41:12.369
like there is there is all climbing in just four
00:41:12.369 --> 00:41:16.309
boulders not all climbing but you see my point
00:41:16.309 --> 00:41:20.730
so but yeah from a non -climber audience i can
00:41:20.730 --> 00:41:24.690
get it that it's you don't know what is happening
00:41:24.690 --> 00:41:28.980
there is too much things happening The format
00:41:28.980 --> 00:41:31.579
is difficult to explain. The rules are difficult
00:41:31.579 --> 00:41:36.420
to explain. There is attempts to make points
00:41:36.420 --> 00:41:40.619
now. In my opinion, I think we lose a bit the
00:41:40.619 --> 00:41:45.940
thing about attempts. The attempts are less interesting.
00:41:46.099 --> 00:41:50.420
And also, you can't read directly the performance
00:41:50.420 --> 00:41:55.960
of a climber. Before, it was one top, one zone
00:41:55.960 --> 00:41:59.739
in. that many attempts now with just points you
00:41:59.739 --> 00:42:02.900
don't know exactly the performance just because
00:42:02.900 --> 00:42:06.739
it's points it doesn't translate exactly in how
00:42:06.739 --> 00:42:10.199
many attempts were used so you need to make calculations
00:42:10.199 --> 00:42:14.880
it's a bit yeah so it's it's bouldering is complex
00:42:14.880 --> 00:42:17.780
it's just because it's about climbing and it's
00:42:17.780 --> 00:42:20.760
climbing is so complex yeah i mean i think the
00:42:20.760 --> 00:42:24.690
point system will help with understanding I think
00:42:24.690 --> 00:42:26.590
it makes a little bit more clear just because
00:42:26.590 --> 00:42:28.750
then there's like a numerical value that people
00:42:28.750 --> 00:42:32.969
can point to. But yeah, I guess I do see the
00:42:32.969 --> 00:42:36.030
issue with like the star not really getting that
00:42:36.030 --> 00:42:40.369
much screen time. But I mean, it's kind of similar
00:42:40.369 --> 00:42:44.650
in like, I guess it's not that similar, but like
00:42:44.650 --> 00:42:48.269
in speed, the faster climber obviously is spending
00:42:48.269 --> 00:42:51.550
less time. Yeah, but the faster, the winner.
00:42:52.199 --> 00:42:55.599
He's not eliminated until the end. Oh, that's
00:42:55.599 --> 00:42:58.880
true. That's true. Yeah. So you see him or her
00:42:58.880 --> 00:43:03.820
the whole competition. Okay. And he or she will
00:43:03.820 --> 00:43:06.840
get all the replays. Yeah, I guess I don't know
00:43:06.840 --> 00:43:09.019
how that would be self -reporting. Yeah, I mean,
00:43:09.019 --> 00:43:12.820
I've thought a little bit about it. The best
00:43:12.820 --> 00:43:17.840
would be to eliminate. the worst people like
00:43:17.840 --> 00:43:23.059
what they do in arco for the uh i don't remember
00:43:23.059 --> 00:43:27.340
the name the rock masters the rock masters yeah
00:43:27.340 --> 00:43:31.719
the problem is like if you eliminate someone
00:43:31.719 --> 00:43:37.320
uh after the first boulder and this person was
00:43:37.320 --> 00:43:41.119
not good at slab but right very good at yeah
00:43:41.119 --> 00:43:44.550
it's not fair just because And also for the competition,
00:43:44.730 --> 00:43:47.190
it's not fair because what if this person eliminated
00:43:47.190 --> 00:43:50.670
after the first boulder was the only one able
00:43:50.670 --> 00:43:54.050
to do the boulder two, for example, or boulder
00:43:54.050 --> 00:43:58.789
four. So there is this unfairness that is problematic
00:43:58.789 --> 00:44:02.909
if you eliminate people. Yeah, I've seen some
00:44:02.909 --> 00:44:05.750
competition formats of the elimination format
00:44:05.750 --> 00:44:09.409
where you can't go to the next boulder until
00:44:09.409 --> 00:44:13.280
you finish the first boulder. But yeah, that
00:44:13.280 --> 00:44:16.320
does seem kind of unfair because there are just
00:44:16.320 --> 00:44:19.559
so many bouldering styles. Yeah, I think the
00:44:19.559 --> 00:44:25.099
solution would be to not impose an ordered circuit.
00:44:25.619 --> 00:44:28.820
The best would be, and that could be actually
00:44:28.820 --> 00:44:32.860
quite interesting, you leave the athletes to
00:44:32.860 --> 00:44:35.400
choose in which order they want to climb the
00:44:35.400 --> 00:44:41.400
boulders. there is still an observation of all
00:44:41.400 --> 00:44:44.880
four boulders. And then in isolation, they decide,
00:44:45.059 --> 00:44:47.659
okay, I want to do boulder two first, boulder
00:44:47.659 --> 00:44:50.400
three, and then blah, blah, blah. So there is
00:44:50.400 --> 00:44:54.340
some strategy involved. And as a commentator,
00:44:54.380 --> 00:44:57.000
it could be super interesting. Like, okay, we
00:44:57.000 --> 00:45:00.000
know he starts, like he's better at slab climbing,
00:45:00.099 --> 00:45:02.659
et cetera, but he's going for this one. Maybe
00:45:02.659 --> 00:45:06.349
that's because he... Yeah, I think that could
00:45:06.349 --> 00:45:08.949
be quite interesting. That would be interesting.
00:45:09.090 --> 00:45:11.829
I don't think I've ever seen that in any format.
00:45:12.150 --> 00:45:15.110
It might be kind of hard to feel. And also hard
00:45:15.110 --> 00:45:17.750
because what if two people want to do the same
00:45:17.750 --> 00:45:21.230
one at the same time? Yeah, I mean, you would
00:45:21.230 --> 00:45:24.849
let people climb one by one. There would still
00:45:24.849 --> 00:45:30.010
be only one person on the climb. Of course, with
00:45:30.010 --> 00:45:32.070
the new format, there are two people on the mat.
00:45:34.329 --> 00:45:37.429
Yeah, it would be only one person on the mat.
00:45:37.590 --> 00:45:43.269
And difficult to film? Yes and no. It would be
00:45:43.269 --> 00:45:46.289
an extra difficulty. But anyway, all the cameras
00:45:46.289 --> 00:45:49.750
are placed for the whole final anyway. So the
00:45:49.750 --> 00:45:56.010
only one moving is the mobile camera on the mat.
00:45:56.389 --> 00:46:00.510
But anyway, most of the time, the cameraman is
00:46:00.510 --> 00:46:03.550
placed in front of the... of the door and then
00:46:03.550 --> 00:46:08.130
you will just follow the the athlete and then
00:46:08.130 --> 00:46:10.670
yeah of course the camera will have to adjust
00:46:10.670 --> 00:46:13.190
to focus on this boulder instead of this one
00:46:13.190 --> 00:46:16.190
but that's not a problem that's not a big deal
00:46:16.190 --> 00:46:18.789
it might be hard in terms of graphics because
00:46:18.789 --> 00:46:22.570
then you have to explain like oh this is this
00:46:22.570 --> 00:46:25.800
problem but this person this is this person's
00:46:25.800 --> 00:46:28.440
like third problem that they're on i don't know
00:46:28.440 --> 00:46:31.980
i i don't think it's unsolvable either yeah interesting
00:46:31.980 --> 00:46:35.139
um and i want to go back to something you mentioned
00:46:35.139 --> 00:46:38.039
a little bit earlier how do you balance attracting
00:46:38.039 --> 00:46:40.719
a new audience versus satisfying the existing
00:46:40.719 --> 00:46:44.019
climbing audience so non -climbers versus climbers
00:46:44.019 --> 00:46:47.239
who are watching i don't think we think that
00:46:47.239 --> 00:46:51.739
much about how to attract a new audience except
00:46:51.739 --> 00:46:57.400
maybe in the graphics how to explain the sport
00:46:57.400 --> 00:46:59.780
better. So that's why points were introduced.
00:47:00.099 --> 00:47:03.219
Now this year, there is a new little graphic
00:47:03.219 --> 00:47:07.780
explaining what the graphics mean. There is its
00:47:07.780 --> 00:47:10.800
own rule thing. So it explains the icons and
00:47:10.800 --> 00:47:16.820
stuff like that. So it's mostly via the graphics,
00:47:17.179 --> 00:47:21.400
I think, that it comes. Also introducing predictions.
00:47:22.360 --> 00:47:26.679
For example, it's been a long running topic.
00:47:27.539 --> 00:47:31.159
So the predictions, it's basically when a boulderer
00:47:31.159 --> 00:47:34.500
enters the mat, what he or she needs to do to
00:47:34.500 --> 00:47:38.659
reach this rank, for example, on this boulder.
00:47:39.800 --> 00:47:43.739
So that already you can do quite a lot just with
00:47:43.739 --> 00:47:47.579
the graphics, introducing something so people
00:47:47.579 --> 00:47:52.579
understand what is going on. And I think it has
00:47:52.579 --> 00:47:55.800
come a long way since I've started. Just in the
00:47:55.800 --> 00:48:01.480
lead bar also, it's quite explanatory. Things
00:48:01.480 --> 00:48:05.460
like that. After, in terms of filming itself,
00:48:05.940 --> 00:48:13.960
of course, beauty shots are nice. And that's
00:48:13.960 --> 00:48:19.820
usually what TV wants, just because... I don't
00:48:19.820 --> 00:48:24.239
think TV wants a wide shot, a still wide shot
00:48:24.239 --> 00:48:29.739
with just four boulders in the shot and climbers
00:48:29.739 --> 00:48:34.619
going up and down. That would not work for TVs.
00:48:36.699 --> 00:48:43.320
Having too many shots also, switching from small
00:48:43.320 --> 00:48:47.280
holes, narrow shots to, yeah, et cetera, close
00:48:47.280 --> 00:48:51.130
shots, et cetera. I think we are doing a bit
00:48:51.130 --> 00:48:54.949
too much at the moment, but it might calm down,
00:48:55.050 --> 00:48:59.510
hopefully. Maybe keeping the narrow shots and
00:48:59.510 --> 00:49:02.449
small shots for when the climber is resting,
00:49:02.610 --> 00:49:05.309
for example. So in lead, for example, that would
00:49:05.309 --> 00:49:08.309
be when they are shocking up and they are on
00:49:08.309 --> 00:49:12.389
the same hold for 15 seconds. There you can allow
00:49:12.389 --> 00:49:15.210
yourself to put a narrow shot, a close shot.
00:49:15.900 --> 00:49:18.820
Or you can just put on the close shot for three
00:49:18.820 --> 00:49:23.400
seconds. But yeah, I think to introduce climbing
00:49:23.400 --> 00:49:26.900
to a new audience, wide shots, split screens
00:49:26.900 --> 00:49:31.179
is still the best. And speaking of like graphics,
00:49:31.219 --> 00:49:34.900
since that is kind of your specialty, I think
00:49:34.900 --> 00:49:37.119
on the Reddit post there was some positive feedback
00:49:37.119 --> 00:49:39.599
on stats showing up in graphics this year. So
00:49:39.599 --> 00:49:44.519
good work on that. But I guess the issue that
00:49:44.519 --> 00:49:46.940
comes up sometimes is that they often don't show
00:49:46.940 --> 00:49:50.659
up or they lag behind. I think, for example,
00:49:50.780 --> 00:49:54.019
the lead progression in the past couple events.
00:49:55.559 --> 00:49:59.719
Bali or Wujiang would just be kind of slow to
00:49:59.719 --> 00:50:03.539
update. So people are wondering, why are the
00:50:03.539 --> 00:50:08.659
scores rarely shown on screen? And yeah, why
00:50:08.659 --> 00:50:13.559
do graphics lag behind sometimes? Yeah, so the
00:50:13.559 --> 00:50:17.139
new graphics, it's a new graphics solution. It
00:50:17.139 --> 00:50:23.269
has been developed this winter by a new team
00:50:23.269 --> 00:50:26.829
of developers so it's a new it's a new production
00:50:26.829 --> 00:50:33.389
doing them i've had access to the solution quite
00:50:33.389 --> 00:50:37.230
recently and it has been tested on some test
00:50:37.230 --> 00:50:41.889
events so we have a platform where we can test
00:50:41.889 --> 00:50:47.329
the graphics of course graphics are working like
00:50:47.329 --> 00:50:53.059
all the results big result screens and names,
00:50:53.260 --> 00:50:56.840
etc. It's very easy to test, for example, just
00:50:56.840 --> 00:51:00.980
because they don't necessarily need a live update.
00:51:01.280 --> 00:51:09.139
But for all these provisional graphics, live
00:51:09.139 --> 00:51:11.539
progression bar, so the lead bar on the side,
00:51:11.719 --> 00:51:17.409
it's much more complicated to test. Of course,
00:51:17.449 --> 00:51:20.349
you can do that and simulate some events. But
00:51:20.349 --> 00:51:24.409
like, for example, in China, I had some problem
00:51:24.409 --> 00:51:27.829
with the internet connection just because of
00:51:27.829 --> 00:51:33.730
the Chinese firewalls. I think it was blocking
00:51:33.730 --> 00:51:37.829
the access of the platform. I mean, it was slowing
00:51:37.829 --> 00:51:43.610
it down. So there are things that we can't foresee
00:51:43.610 --> 00:51:49.230
in the tests. And because it's a new solution,
00:51:49.449 --> 00:51:53.269
I have a team on support during the live stream.
00:51:53.389 --> 00:51:57.230
So I'm exchanging with them constantly and I'm
00:51:57.230 --> 00:52:00.170
giving them feedbacks on where it updates and
00:52:00.170 --> 00:52:05.070
where it does not. So they just improve that.
00:52:05.150 --> 00:52:11.010
So there was some tests and then like in any...
00:52:11.440 --> 00:52:15.239
development. I'm working also beside the FSC.
00:52:15.360 --> 00:52:18.019
I'm also working on some applications and stuff
00:52:18.019 --> 00:52:21.760
like that. We can make as much tests as we want.
00:52:22.719 --> 00:52:28.360
Nothing beats the live event. You will always
00:52:28.360 --> 00:52:31.400
find bugs. Like me, for example, trying to display
00:52:31.400 --> 00:52:34.539
that at some weird moment just because there
00:52:34.539 --> 00:52:40.199
is a dead time and the live progression was not
00:52:40.539 --> 00:52:43.639
meant to be displayed at this moment. So like
00:52:43.639 --> 00:52:46.099
in between, for example, two climbers and there
00:52:46.099 --> 00:52:49.460
is no active climber. And then, of course, the
00:52:49.460 --> 00:52:53.420
active climber is not on the lead bar and it
00:52:53.420 --> 00:52:57.280
should appear. So just weird things like that.
00:52:58.579 --> 00:53:01.280
So yeah, we are exchanging a lot of feedbacks.
00:53:01.280 --> 00:53:06.179
It will get better event by event. And it's already
00:53:06.179 --> 00:53:11.039
much improved, I think. And another thing, like
00:53:11.039 --> 00:53:16.980
why it's not updated, it's better now, but sometimes
00:53:16.980 --> 00:53:21.000
the judges, they just input the scores at the
00:53:21.000 --> 00:53:27.179
end of the run, for example. Because the judges,
00:53:27.380 --> 00:53:31.199
so there is one having the tablet and making
00:53:31.199 --> 00:53:34.699
the plus, plus, plus while the climber is going
00:53:34.699 --> 00:53:38.159
up, for example. And then there is another one.
00:53:39.539 --> 00:53:43.739
having the topo of the route being printed and
00:53:43.739 --> 00:53:51.539
following with the finger the progression of
00:53:51.539 --> 00:53:55.260
the climber. And I don't know, maybe if the judge
00:53:55.260 --> 00:53:59.940
with the tablet is not sure of where he is at
00:53:59.940 --> 00:54:03.539
the moment with his whole number, he has to refer
00:54:03.539 --> 00:54:06.900
to the topo, etc. And that can take some time.
00:54:07.469 --> 00:54:09.849
It's also an explanation sometimes. And sometimes
00:54:09.849 --> 00:54:13.570
they don't update right away. They input the
00:54:13.570 --> 00:54:16.909
result at the end. So when the climber has fallen,
00:54:17.130 --> 00:54:20.170
they check. They make sure that the result is
00:54:20.170 --> 00:54:22.369
correct. They make it official. They put it in
00:54:22.369 --> 00:54:24.570
the tablet. Then we have the result only at the
00:54:24.570 --> 00:54:30.650
end. So sometimes I'm sending a message and the
00:54:30.650 --> 00:54:33.789
judges are being told to input the result live.
00:54:36.119 --> 00:54:41.300
So yes, there are reasons, but different. Sometimes
00:54:41.300 --> 00:54:44.780
it's user errors. Sometimes it's, yeah. Yeah,
00:54:44.860 --> 00:54:46.659
another thing people were wondering about was,
00:54:46.699 --> 00:54:49.659
or people were asking for, was seeing scores
00:54:49.659 --> 00:54:52.820
show up on screen more often, which, yeah, I
00:54:52.820 --> 00:54:56.980
think that's a fair ask. It mostly depends on
00:54:56.980 --> 00:55:04.480
how the director is filming the climbing. if
00:55:04.480 --> 00:55:07.179
he or she leaves enough space for the scores.
00:55:08.639 --> 00:55:15.340
If he or she... Yeah, I mean, now we have in
00:55:15.340 --> 00:55:17.460
bouldering, we have the split screen now that
00:55:17.460 --> 00:55:20.739
has been mostly introduced for the main semis
00:55:20.739 --> 00:55:26.880
in Keishao. So there is a live, the provisional
00:55:26.880 --> 00:55:31.860
on the right and then the four names at the top.
00:55:32.250 --> 00:55:35.449
That's quite nice. And it means that the results
00:55:35.449 --> 00:55:39.610
are there all the times. That's great. Then in
00:55:39.610 --> 00:55:44.750
finals, we have a split screen already sometimes.
00:55:45.630 --> 00:55:49.789
I like split screens. I'm all for split screens,
00:55:49.909 --> 00:55:53.409
but it means that sometimes there is not that
00:55:53.409 --> 00:55:56.929
much space to display the graphics also. So I
00:55:56.929 --> 00:56:00.590
display the names and there is maybe not space
00:56:00.590 --> 00:56:06.630
for anything else. And then in between, in rotations,
00:56:07.070 --> 00:56:09.949
maybe the director is putting in some replays
00:56:09.949 --> 00:56:13.170
and there is no time to display the results.
00:56:13.730 --> 00:56:17.989
So again, it's a question of getting to know
00:56:17.989 --> 00:56:20.670
how the director is going to work. Sometimes
00:56:20.670 --> 00:56:27.289
also it's a director wanting to decide when I'm
00:56:27.289 --> 00:56:32.460
displaying things. My role is to be under the
00:56:32.460 --> 00:56:38.340
direction of the director, right? So I have to
00:56:38.340 --> 00:56:41.039
follow what he wants to do. And sometimes it
00:56:41.039 --> 00:56:43.739
doesn't want to have that much thing on the screen
00:56:43.739 --> 00:56:47.199
and prefer to display some other things. Although
00:56:47.199 --> 00:56:51.219
it's quite tricky with this new format. Just
00:56:51.219 --> 00:56:55.059
because people are not climbing the same boulders
00:56:55.059 --> 00:56:59.329
at the same time. Some people have a score. when
00:56:59.329 --> 00:57:01.769
they have two boulders while some others have
00:57:01.769 --> 00:57:06.269
a score with three boulders already. But yeah,
00:57:06.409 --> 00:57:11.630
I kind of agree that it's important in this case
00:57:11.630 --> 00:57:14.409
to display the results more often. And I think
00:57:14.409 --> 00:57:16.989
we will try to do that in the future. The fact
00:57:16.989 --> 00:57:19.730
that it's a new format also, I mean, there is
00:57:19.730 --> 00:57:23.809
some adjustment ongoing, right? Like split screen,
00:57:23.949 --> 00:57:26.989
it's obvious. Like we have seen that with...
00:57:27.369 --> 00:57:32.570
combined last year uh yeah two people on the
00:57:32.570 --> 00:57:34.909
screen of yeah two people on the mat of course
00:57:34.909 --> 00:57:39.230
you you do a split screen um it's not a lot of
00:57:39.230 --> 00:57:41.909
productions don't really like it because it's
00:57:41.909 --> 00:57:47.489
not tv like oh really yeah yeah yeah i don't
00:57:47.489 --> 00:57:51.710
know it's it's coming from tv some productions
00:57:51.710 --> 00:57:54.510
don't really like it but i think for for climbing
00:57:54.510 --> 00:57:58.610
it works quite well um And the good thing is
00:57:58.610 --> 00:58:01.809
graphics aren't developed like that now. So it
00:58:01.809 --> 00:58:05.090
pushes directors to actually use split screens.
00:58:05.510 --> 00:58:09.530
Good to know. You also mentioned that there's
00:58:09.530 --> 00:58:11.989
often difficulty with the timing system. What
00:58:11.989 --> 00:58:13.929
do you mean by that? Just like putting the clock
00:58:13.929 --> 00:58:19.610
on the screen? It's more like there is not a
00:58:19.610 --> 00:58:29.050
uniformized solution for timing. In a lot of
00:58:29.050 --> 00:58:33.030
events, there is one solution, but for example,
00:58:33.090 --> 00:58:41.590
in China, it's a local company doing the timing
00:58:41.590 --> 00:58:47.110
system. So from one event to the next, it's different
00:58:47.110 --> 00:58:52.539
the way we retrieve the timing system. The timer
00:58:52.539 --> 00:58:58.719
is not included in the graphic solution. Just
00:58:58.719 --> 00:59:02.500
because there are different kinds of data that
00:59:02.500 --> 00:59:05.300
needs to be retrieved, etc. Usually, we just
00:59:05.300 --> 00:59:07.639
retrieve a video signal. That's much easier.
00:59:07.940 --> 00:59:18.190
And we mix it in the live stream. But it's not
00:59:18.190 --> 00:59:20.949
integrated directly in the graphic just because
00:59:20.949 --> 00:59:22.989
there are different companies doing different
00:59:22.989 --> 00:59:30.989
things. Now we know most of the system used in
00:59:30.989 --> 00:59:35.429
the different World Cups. So yeah, there is no
00:59:35.429 --> 00:59:37.710
problem to retrieve at least the video signal.
00:59:39.610 --> 00:59:46.530
And from this year, we do two clocks now on semis.
00:59:47.159 --> 00:59:51.039
lead semis, which is finally a good improvement.
00:59:51.739 --> 00:59:57.159
The big problem is there is not a uniform clock.
00:59:57.480 --> 01:00:04.039
But that's also normal. There are some organizers
01:00:04.039 --> 01:00:07.800
that have been using this system. The organizers
01:00:07.800 --> 01:00:13.469
are providing everything. so that the competition
01:00:13.469 --> 01:00:16.989
happens, right? So they provide the walls, the
01:00:16.989 --> 01:00:20.210
holes, etc. And they also provide the timing
01:00:20.210 --> 01:00:24.250
system. So if the local organizer is used to
01:00:24.250 --> 01:00:28.090
work with this timing system, of course, they
01:00:28.090 --> 01:00:33.449
have the LED display with it. They have all the
01:00:33.449 --> 01:00:37.489
material because it's not a light system. Sometimes
01:00:37.489 --> 01:00:40.690
you need to... It's not like the graphic system
01:00:40.690 --> 01:00:45.500
that... comes with on two computers so it's it
01:00:45.500 --> 01:00:48.280
there are a lot of cables involved there is a
01:00:48.280 --> 01:00:53.579
team dedicated to put on the timing system so
01:00:53.579 --> 01:00:58.900
it's not like you can move a timing system team
01:00:58.900 --> 01:01:04.400
from one event to the next it's the organizers
01:01:04.400 --> 01:01:09.860
who have to provide that so that's why we The
01:01:09.860 --> 01:01:12.500
broadcast team of the IFSC have to adapt to what
01:01:12.500 --> 01:01:15.719
is provided by the local organizer. Yeah, I didn't
01:01:15.719 --> 01:01:18.940
know it was so difficult just to, I don't know,
01:01:18.960 --> 01:01:22.199
just to put up a time. Yeah, I mean, for boulder
01:01:22.199 --> 01:01:26.739
and lead, it's quite easy. But for speed, you
01:01:26.739 --> 01:01:31.199
can't really make anything. I mean, it needs
01:01:31.199 --> 01:01:33.860
to be certified. All these timing systems are
01:01:33.860 --> 01:01:38.280
certified IFSC, but it's still local. It's local
01:01:38.280 --> 01:01:43.699
things. And the CMA, for example, the Chinese
01:01:43.699 --> 01:01:46.219
Federation is working with this timing system.
01:01:46.440 --> 01:01:51.360
Some others are working with Dicron. And all
01:01:51.360 --> 01:01:55.099
these timing systems are certified to be able
01:01:55.099 --> 01:01:58.000
to be on the World Cup. Well, I think that covers
01:01:58.000 --> 01:02:04.159
most of the complaints people had. I hope I...
01:02:05.679 --> 01:02:09.980
I hope I gave some explanations. Yeah. Okay.
01:02:10.039 --> 01:02:12.260
So now for something a little bit lighter and
01:02:12.260 --> 01:02:15.940
maybe more fun. You've traveled with the IFSC
01:02:15.940 --> 01:02:19.619
a bunch. You go around to all the World Cups?
01:02:21.179 --> 01:02:28.179
So I started in 2018. And since then, yes, I've
01:02:28.179 --> 01:02:32.019
done most of the World Cup, yes. Whether we do
01:02:32.019 --> 01:02:35.469
the production ourselves or we don't. So just
01:02:35.469 --> 01:02:39.349
because I'm the graphic operator, I'm basically
01:02:39.349 --> 01:02:42.670
always there because I always need some graphics.
01:02:43.030 --> 01:02:46.030
Yeah, that makes sense. So yeah, that's like
01:02:46.030 --> 01:02:48.969
a lot of traveling you've done. Does anything
01:02:48.969 --> 01:02:51.670
stand out to you in terms of like what makes
01:02:51.670 --> 01:02:53.949
traveling difficult or like any crazy stories
01:02:53.949 --> 01:02:57.409
you have while traveling? Yeah, so when we do
01:02:57.409 --> 01:03:05.320
the production, we usually travel. six people
01:03:05.320 --> 01:03:12.280
and it depends whether we hire cameramen locally
01:03:12.280 --> 01:03:15.280
so maybe it's local cameramen that we need to
01:03:15.280 --> 01:03:19.639
to train specifically for that but when we travel
01:03:19.639 --> 01:03:22.579
by six for example we also come with all our
01:03:22.579 --> 01:03:27.219
gear by plane And it means that it's a lot of
01:03:27.219 --> 01:03:30.380
boxes that we need to declare to the customs,
01:03:30.539 --> 01:03:34.260
to move around on trolleys in airports. People
01:03:34.260 --> 01:03:37.739
think that we are a music band and stuff like
01:03:37.739 --> 01:03:42.940
that. And yeah, so it's not like we can arrive
01:03:42.940 --> 01:03:46.980
one hour, one hour and a half before the flight.
01:03:47.119 --> 01:03:50.539
So we need to arrive quite a long time before.
01:03:50.599 --> 01:03:54.539
And we need to, like yesterday, I spent, I don't
01:03:54.539 --> 01:03:57.380
know. for hours more when we arrived from Bali,
01:03:57.559 --> 01:04:00.860
like just the time to retrieve all the boxes,
01:04:01.079 --> 01:04:03.159
make sure that everything has arrived, declare
01:04:03.159 --> 01:04:07.219
it at the airport, then crossing the border to
01:04:07.219 --> 01:04:09.619
go back to France and need to declare it again
01:04:09.619 --> 01:04:19.860
and load. So that's quite a lot of work to move
01:04:19.860 --> 01:04:23.980
all these fragile items like that. And yeah,
01:04:24.059 --> 01:04:27.179
we usually travel with one company only just
01:04:27.179 --> 01:04:30.940
to make sure that we have a directed line, a
01:04:30.940 --> 01:04:37.760
direct line. Yeah, and we travel all together.
01:04:37.860 --> 01:04:43.539
It means that we are together sometimes 24 -7
01:04:43.539 --> 01:04:48.800
when we share bedrooms. So when we go for three
01:04:48.800 --> 01:04:52.809
weeks, we are always... together so that can
01:04:52.809 --> 01:04:57.010
be difficult to handle sometimes i mean we we
01:04:57.010 --> 01:05:01.130
usually have yeah we have no problem which we
01:05:01.130 --> 01:05:04.269
could not live together like that if we didn't
01:05:04.269 --> 01:05:06.670
like each other but sometimes you would like
01:05:06.670 --> 01:05:09.230
to have a bit your long time you know right um
01:05:09.230 --> 01:05:13.230
and uh yeah each time at the beginning of the
01:05:13.230 --> 01:05:17.010
season i and i i'm telling myself okay this year
01:05:17.010 --> 01:05:21.099
i can i will take some time for me during the
01:05:21.099 --> 01:05:24.119
season. I will work on some other things, etc.
01:05:24.639 --> 01:05:29.460
And in practice, I just can't. I'm just fully
01:05:29.460 --> 01:05:34.559
on the work. And when I'm not working at the
01:05:34.559 --> 01:05:38.639
venue, we do again something together. It's not
01:05:38.639 --> 01:05:42.219
like I can escape to do my own thing. I could,
01:05:42.320 --> 01:05:47.199
but yeah. Not much time. Yeah, not much time.
01:05:48.670 --> 01:05:52.030
And yeah, it's quite strange to be home again.
01:05:52.170 --> 01:05:57.230
It's a lot of busy feeling all the time when
01:05:57.230 --> 01:05:59.909
I'm away and then coming home. Like there is
01:05:59.909 --> 01:06:03.690
this, you know, that sudden slowdown and okay,
01:06:03.829 --> 01:06:06.610
what do I do now? I'm a completely different
01:06:06.610 --> 01:06:12.550
rhythm and it usually takes a few days for me
01:06:12.550 --> 01:06:16.409
to adapt to the new, yeah, to slow down again.
01:06:17.219 --> 01:06:20.380
Yeah, I think Matt said a similar thing. Yeah.
01:06:20.519 --> 01:06:23.519
Just weird being home. But yeah, Matt, it's even
01:06:23.519 --> 01:06:26.920
worse because he's actually doing, I'm doing
01:06:26.920 --> 01:06:29.179
most of the events. This year, I'm not doing
01:06:29.179 --> 01:06:31.980
all of them because the season is quite cramped.
01:06:32.340 --> 01:06:37.539
So like the beginning, it's also events are concentrated
01:06:37.539 --> 01:06:39.920
at the beginning of the season. There is not
01:06:39.920 --> 01:06:44.360
that much after August. So I'm skipping some
01:06:44.360 --> 01:06:48.079
because I'm not going for the US, for example,
01:06:48.300 --> 01:06:52.920
because I have five weeks in a row already. Oh,
01:06:53.000 --> 01:06:56.440
no. Yeah, sorry. Oh, I thought I was going to
01:06:56.440 --> 01:06:59.960
see you again in Salt Lake. Yeah, sorry. But
01:06:59.960 --> 01:07:03.900
yeah, so this year I've decided to take some
01:07:03.900 --> 01:07:09.019
time off. But for Matt, it's even worse because...
01:07:09.530 --> 01:07:13.949
He's not stopping. He's not replaced. He's doing
01:07:13.949 --> 01:07:19.670
all the World Cups. I mean, even in between events,
01:07:19.929 --> 01:07:22.389
he's not going home. He's doing some other things.
01:07:22.610 --> 01:07:27.869
And I can understand that it can be hard to slow
01:07:27.869 --> 01:07:32.150
down if you have so few time between events.
01:07:33.010 --> 01:07:37.170
It's difficult to readapt to the rhythm all the
01:07:37.170 --> 01:07:40.219
time. Oh, yeah, for sure. Like, yeah, I have
01:07:40.219 --> 01:07:44.440
two days. I'm not going to slow down much because
01:07:44.440 --> 01:07:48.460
I'm just leaving again Friday. So I'm just doing
01:07:48.460 --> 01:07:50.840
a lot of things when I'm at home. Yeah, makes
01:07:50.840 --> 01:07:54.280
sense. And it is a shame that you won't make
01:07:54.280 --> 01:07:57.119
it to the US World Cups. I know you mentioned
01:07:57.119 --> 01:08:01.460
you had like a weird experience in the US at
01:08:01.460 --> 01:08:09.809
Salt Lake. Yeah, it was a bit weird indeed. last
01:08:09.809 --> 01:08:13.929
year it was in the TC but maybe the year before
01:08:13.929 --> 01:08:19.989
so 2023 we were the venue was located in in a
01:08:19.989 --> 01:08:24.010
park I think it's Pioneer Park yeah Pioneer Park
01:08:24.010 --> 01:08:26.789
in the middle of Salt Lake and it's usually a
01:08:26.789 --> 01:08:30.729
park where there are a lot of homeless people
01:08:30.729 --> 01:08:40.239
and there were pushed for the for the competition
01:08:40.239 --> 01:08:44.319
and the venue was enclosed so there were some
01:08:44.319 --> 01:08:49.939
fences around and yeah so around the venue there
01:08:49.939 --> 01:08:55.000
were still a lot of homeless people um and uh
01:08:55.000 --> 01:09:02.659
one day i went to uh uh to the venue early in
01:09:02.659 --> 01:09:06.890
the morning And I didn't have much to do until
01:09:06.890 --> 01:09:09.149
the afternoon or something like that. So I just
01:09:09.149 --> 01:09:12.710
did a few things. And then I had time to go climb
01:09:12.710 --> 01:09:15.970
because I wanted to go to the bouldering project.
01:09:16.210 --> 01:09:20.090
I don't know if you know. So it was like, I don't
01:09:20.090 --> 01:09:24.350
know, 20 minutes away from the venue. So I take
01:09:24.350 --> 01:09:28.470
my climbing stuff. I go to the bouldering project
01:09:28.470 --> 01:09:32.909
and just... Leaving Pioneer Park, I passed by
01:09:32.909 --> 01:09:40.829
one man who was just sleeping under the trees,
01:09:40.949 --> 01:09:44.670
etc. And I remembered that passing by him, I
01:09:44.670 --> 01:09:48.350
looked at him and I saw that he didn't look very,
01:09:48.369 --> 01:09:55.550
very well. Yeah. Yeah. So I went climbing. Nice
01:09:55.550 --> 01:09:58.029
session. I don't know, two hours, maybe something
01:09:58.029 --> 01:10:05.090
like that. And got out, started to be quite warm.
01:10:06.090 --> 01:10:09.949
And I remember passing by another guy that was
01:10:09.949 --> 01:10:13.909
sleeping in full sun, etc. But he didn't look
01:10:13.909 --> 01:10:18.949
very well either. Continued on the avenue. And
01:10:18.949 --> 01:10:23.270
then there was some policemen who had caught
01:10:23.270 --> 01:10:28.439
a woman. They had just grabbed her and... Yeah,
01:10:28.439 --> 01:10:32.119
I don't know. She was screaming like mad. And
01:10:32.119 --> 01:10:37.399
apparently she had just run down the avenue naked.
01:10:38.199 --> 01:10:43.779
And there was a friend on the other side of the
01:10:43.779 --> 01:10:48.420
road and he was yelling at the police also. So
01:10:48.420 --> 01:10:52.420
I thought, okay, that's US. Okay, why not? Yeah,
01:10:52.460 --> 01:10:55.199
now that I'm thinking about it, that does actually
01:10:55.199 --> 01:10:58.340
happen. Yeah. Fairly frequently, I do see that.
01:10:58.579 --> 01:11:03.000
Yeah, yeah, but I'm not used to that. Yeah. Yeah,
01:11:03.079 --> 01:11:08.779
I'm not used to that. And so, yeah. Usual American
01:11:08.779 --> 01:11:13.039
scene, apparently. And I just cross the road
01:11:13.039 --> 01:11:17.800
back to Pioneer Park, and I'm passed by this
01:11:17.800 --> 01:11:21.699
sleeping guy again. He had not moved an inch
01:11:21.699 --> 01:11:25.909
since two hours. And detailing him a little bit
01:11:25.909 --> 01:11:29.529
more. Yeah, he really didn't look very well.
01:11:29.630 --> 01:11:34.350
So I turned back. I asked the police who were
01:11:34.350 --> 01:11:39.010
here. That was nice. I didn't have to call anybody.
01:11:39.329 --> 01:11:41.989
I just told them to just have a look at this
01:11:41.989 --> 01:11:46.750
one. And I continued a bit. And they came to
01:11:46.750 --> 01:11:51.029
see. And they just put the ribbon around him.
01:11:52.489 --> 01:11:57.569
So yeah, that was strange to find this poor dude
01:11:57.569 --> 01:12:01.729
like 50 meters away from the venue like that.
01:12:02.369 --> 01:12:08.189
This whole morning was very strange. Does that
01:12:08.189 --> 01:12:10.590
have anything to do with you not coming back?
01:12:11.430 --> 01:12:13.909
No, no, no. Actually, I came back last year.
01:12:14.689 --> 01:12:18.210
No problem. Well, yeah, sorry that was your experience.
01:12:20.619 --> 01:12:24.579
Can't say I've ever seen a dead person before.
01:12:24.840 --> 01:12:27.800
So it's not always like that here, at least.
01:12:27.899 --> 01:12:31.239
Yeah, it's not like it traumatized me. But yeah,
01:12:32.060 --> 01:12:36.640
it's still weird to know that. Yeah, like it's
01:12:36.640 --> 01:12:39.899
50 meters away, like you are working and people
01:12:39.899 --> 01:12:42.720
are having fun and there's some dude dying there
01:12:42.720 --> 01:12:47.680
in his sleep. Well, at least it seemed semi -peaceful.
01:12:47.920 --> 01:12:52.130
Yeah, hopefully. I don't know. So outside of
01:12:52.130 --> 01:12:55.510
IFSC travel and stuff like that, you also do
01:12:55.510 --> 01:12:58.729
some climbing gym work. You mentioned that you,
01:12:58.810 --> 01:13:03.649
I guess, work for Climb Along. Besides the IFSC,
01:13:03.949 --> 01:13:06.949
mostly during the off -season, but I'm still
01:13:06.949 --> 01:13:10.670
working with them during the IFSC season. So
01:13:10.670 --> 01:13:15.989
I'm working with Climb Along. It's a Danish company.
01:13:16.090 --> 01:13:22.659
It's based in Copenhagen. And we have developed
01:13:22.659 --> 01:13:27.699
a result system. So for competition, climbing,
01:13:27.800 --> 01:13:32.600
climbing competitions. The idea came when I lived
01:13:32.600 --> 01:13:35.119
there at the time. It was, I don't know, in 20...
01:13:35.119 --> 01:13:38.939
I think it was during COVID actually. I was stuck
01:13:38.939 --> 01:13:44.739
there. So because I was working with the AFSC
01:13:44.739 --> 01:13:48.399
already. I connected with them, I met them, and
01:13:48.399 --> 01:13:51.199
we started to develop a result system for competitions,
01:13:51.520 --> 01:13:57.079
just because there was not any result system
01:13:57.079 --> 01:14:00.359
used by the Federation at the time. And so we
01:14:00.359 --> 01:14:03.920
wanted to develop something. The idea was first
01:14:03.920 --> 01:14:08.600
to propose some data for live streams, because
01:14:08.600 --> 01:14:13.229
I wanted to display more. during live streams,
01:14:13.449 --> 01:14:15.989
like predictions for bouldering and stuff like
01:14:15.989 --> 01:14:19.130
that. So the idea came from there. And then from
01:14:19.130 --> 01:14:22.229
one thing after the other, we developed a full
01:14:22.229 --> 01:14:26.789
competition platform. And now we are working
01:14:26.789 --> 01:14:31.270
with some federations, mostly in Scandinavia,
01:14:31.350 --> 01:14:37.449
but also over Europe, like in New Zealand also.
01:14:37.569 --> 01:14:41.380
And we also work with some... climbing gyms in
01:14:41.380 --> 01:14:49.560
the US, actually, in movement. And then we have
01:14:49.560 --> 01:14:53.439
started to work on another product, which is
01:14:53.439 --> 01:14:57.500
called Spot. And the idea is to put some cameras
01:14:57.500 --> 01:15:04.060
in climbing gyms. And we have an image analysis
01:15:04.060 --> 01:15:09.760
program that detects climbers and holds. in the
01:15:09.760 --> 01:15:12.560
climbing gyms. And basically the idea is to give
01:15:12.560 --> 01:15:17.619
feedbacks. So it measures activity in climbing
01:15:17.619 --> 01:15:20.819
gyms. So it counts the number of attempts on
01:15:20.819 --> 01:15:24.300
a boulder, the number of tops on a boulder. And
01:15:24.300 --> 01:15:29.180
it gives feedbacks to the gym owner or to the
01:15:29.180 --> 01:15:33.159
route setter about the activity in his or her
01:15:33.159 --> 01:15:38.079
gym. So that way you can see which boulders are
01:15:38.079 --> 01:15:41.279
popular, which boulders are tried a lot, where
01:15:41.279 --> 01:15:47.359
they are failed a lot. And then as a route setter,
01:15:47.420 --> 01:15:52.579
you get some data, objective data, so you can
01:15:52.579 --> 01:15:54.859
adjust your route setting for the next time and
01:15:54.859 --> 01:16:03.100
things like that. So the idea is to bypass the...
01:16:03.500 --> 01:16:09.000
a logging app that exists so some climbers are
01:16:09.000 --> 01:16:14.220
using it but it's not really used by most of
01:16:14.220 --> 01:16:18.000
the climbers in gyms let's be honest so we lack
01:16:18.000 --> 01:16:21.699
a lot of data and sometimes it's quite subjective
01:16:21.699 --> 01:16:24.220
data because some climbers are just logging the
01:16:24.220 --> 01:16:28.020
boulders that they are succeeding so Yeah, here
01:16:28.020 --> 01:16:30.939
the idea is really to detect all kind of attempts
01:16:30.939 --> 01:16:34.619
and to give feedbacks like that. The idea is
01:16:34.619 --> 01:16:39.619
really to introduce some data -driven workflows
01:16:39.619 --> 01:16:44.260
in climbing gyms because rotating is quite instinctive,
01:16:44.260 --> 01:16:52.899
you know. Some people even consider it an art.
01:16:54.080 --> 01:16:58.319
Kind of. So you need to feel a bit the movement.
01:16:58.619 --> 01:17:04.640
You need to, it's very tactile, right? Climbing
01:17:04.640 --> 01:17:07.420
is tactile, but even for route setter, you need
01:17:07.420 --> 01:17:09.960
to feel all the holes. You need to feel, okay,
01:17:10.000 --> 01:17:12.279
this move, you are trying all the time, et cetera.
01:17:14.140 --> 01:17:18.539
But here's the idea is really to give back objective
01:17:18.539 --> 01:17:28.310
data to route setters. That's not easy to make.
01:17:29.229 --> 01:17:33.850
Some rotators understand it very well and see
01:17:33.850 --> 01:17:38.890
the point of having results on a huge amount
01:17:38.890 --> 01:17:42.850
of data because that's really a huge amount of
01:17:42.850 --> 01:17:46.069
attempts that can happen in one day in a busy
01:17:46.069 --> 01:17:49.390
climbing gym. that's quite a lot or even a week
01:17:49.390 --> 01:17:51.829
like some boulders they get i don't know how
01:17:51.829 --> 01:17:56.289
many attempts 5000 attempts in a week so that's
01:17:56.289 --> 01:17:59.510
quite a lot of and with this amount of attempts
01:17:59.510 --> 01:18:06.489
you can get quite objective uh you can you can
01:18:06.489 --> 01:18:10.609
see things you can start to see things and it's
01:18:10.609 --> 01:18:16.149
very different uh to the way route setters are
01:18:16.720 --> 01:18:19.840
currently working, where it's so feeling like.
01:18:20.060 --> 01:18:26.880
Yeah. So introducing data -driven workflows in
01:18:26.880 --> 01:18:34.279
such artistic work, it's quite a hurdle, but
01:18:34.279 --> 01:18:38.220
I think it will work because after that we can
01:18:38.220 --> 01:18:42.710
maybe look into... Maybe the use of holds, for
01:18:42.710 --> 01:18:47.050
example, which holds are used a lot, which holds
01:18:47.050 --> 01:18:51.470
are being, what's the life expectancy of holds?
01:18:52.130 --> 01:18:57.689
Can they withstand that many foot placement on
01:18:57.689 --> 01:19:01.029
them and stuff like that? So you could start
01:19:01.029 --> 01:19:04.390
to gather quite a lot of data on how efficient
01:19:04.390 --> 01:19:07.489
your gym can become. Did you work in a climbing
01:19:07.489 --> 01:19:13.420
gym before? these things in climate change? No,
01:19:13.539 --> 01:19:16.619
I've not. Actually, I have not. But yeah, we
01:19:16.619 --> 01:19:19.260
have talked to a lot of route setters and see
01:19:19.260 --> 01:19:22.119
how they are working. And there are many different
01:19:22.119 --> 01:19:24.500
workflows from one country to the next, from
01:19:24.500 --> 01:19:28.180
one gym to the next. There is a lot of different
01:19:28.180 --> 01:19:31.739
philosophies from what they want to provide to
01:19:31.739 --> 01:19:35.800
their customers. And of course, there are a lot
01:19:35.800 --> 01:19:39.300
of ethical questions. coming with it also. The
01:19:39.300 --> 01:19:50.180
big topic is how can that standardize climbing
01:19:50.180 --> 01:19:53.619
and do we want to standardize climbing? In my
01:19:53.619 --> 01:19:57.279
opinion, it's probably not. I think climbing
01:19:57.279 --> 01:20:00.220
is so nice just because there is so much diversity
01:20:00.220 --> 01:20:04.880
in climbing. So it's more like to give. feedback
01:20:04.880 --> 01:20:07.500
to people and then people decide what they want
01:20:07.500 --> 01:20:09.579
to do well like what do you mean by standardized
01:20:09.579 --> 01:20:15.819
like if you get some feedbacks on uh on your
01:20:15.819 --> 01:20:18.479
boulder and you see like this style of boulder
01:20:18.479 --> 01:20:22.420
is is very popular in your gym are you going
01:20:22.420 --> 01:20:26.539
to set only this type of boulder or do you want
01:20:26.539 --> 01:20:29.060
your customers to improve also in this style
01:20:29.060 --> 01:20:35.130
of climbing like in i don't know In one place,
01:20:35.229 --> 01:20:37.609
maybe people are very good at slabs. In another
01:20:37.609 --> 01:20:41.409
place, they suck at slabs. Do you want to still
01:20:41.409 --> 01:20:44.470
set slabs and so people get better at slabs or
01:20:44.470 --> 01:20:47.149
you want to completely remove slabs from your
01:20:47.149 --> 01:20:52.550
gym and your customer just gets the tops they
01:20:52.550 --> 01:20:56.949
need? Yeah, so that, I mean, it already happens.
01:20:57.069 --> 01:20:59.210
There are some genes who don't want to necessarily
01:20:59.210 --> 01:21:01.390
have slabs. Makes sense. Yeah, that's a cool
01:21:01.390 --> 01:21:05.310
project. It's quite interesting, yeah. So, yeah,
01:21:05.350 --> 01:21:07.229
in terms of getting into some of the audience
01:21:07.229 --> 01:21:11.189
-submitted questions now, do you ever personally
01:21:11.189 --> 01:21:14.869
re -watch comps for fun or to get better at your
01:21:14.869 --> 01:21:17.470
job? Or just because maybe you missed it because
01:21:17.470 --> 01:21:19.750
you didn't really get to watch it while you're
01:21:19.750 --> 01:21:25.720
working on it? Yes, I do. I started working at
01:21:25.720 --> 01:21:29.680
the FSC after because I was watching comps. And
01:21:29.680 --> 01:21:36.960
when I'm not doing World Cups, I'm doing most
01:21:36.960 --> 01:21:39.060
of the World Cups. So I'm never re -watching.
01:21:39.560 --> 01:21:42.899
I'm never really watching World Cups events,
01:21:43.000 --> 01:21:48.500
but I'm watching other events that I'm not on.
01:21:49.109 --> 01:21:53.210
So just to check what is going on. But I'm probably
01:21:53.210 --> 01:21:57.649
not watching the full live from zero to finish.
01:21:57.810 --> 01:22:01.350
I'm skipping a bit. It's a dead time. Maybe skipping
01:22:01.350 --> 01:22:04.149
one athlete to go to the next boulder and stuff
01:22:04.149 --> 01:22:10.529
like that. So yes, I mean, if I'm watching to
01:22:10.529 --> 01:22:14.510
get better at my job, after a live, I know what
01:22:14.510 --> 01:22:19.250
was wrong and what was that. Yeah, what was not
01:22:19.250 --> 01:22:23.289
good. I know it right away. Besides the graphics,
01:22:23.449 --> 01:22:26.930
I'm also in charge of the running order. So make
01:22:26.930 --> 01:22:29.010
sure that the graphics are displayed at the right
01:22:29.010 --> 01:22:32.149
time. But I'm also saying to the... When I'm
01:22:32.149 --> 01:22:34.890
working with my colleague, I'm telling him when
01:22:34.890 --> 01:22:37.850
to display what at what time. So I'm giving the
01:22:37.850 --> 01:22:42.470
countdowns all the time. And I know when the
01:22:42.470 --> 01:22:45.789
live streams is going well, there is a nice rhythm.
01:22:45.850 --> 01:22:50.520
We are well on time. for each deadlines on the
01:22:50.520 --> 01:22:53.039
TV breaks and stuff like that. I feel like the
01:22:53.039 --> 01:22:56.840
rhythm is good. The shots are moving quite well
01:22:56.840 --> 01:23:00.699
after each other. And we debrief after. Usually
01:23:00.699 --> 01:23:05.859
we say what was good, what was not good. So after
01:23:05.859 --> 01:23:10.220
a live stream, we usually know what was good
01:23:10.220 --> 01:23:13.260
or not. And of course, we can go back to it and
01:23:13.260 --> 01:23:15.960
see, OK, at this moment, the colors were not
01:23:15.960 --> 01:23:24.399
good. The sound was a bit shaky. There was too
01:23:24.399 --> 01:23:28.619
many shots on the quick draw, for example. Last
01:23:28.619 --> 01:23:31.079
weekend, there was too many shots on the quick
01:23:31.079 --> 01:23:35.239
draws. So we're really happy about that. But
01:23:35.239 --> 01:23:39.619
yeah, too much. So we know it for next time.
01:23:39.819 --> 01:23:42.279
Okay, last question. Actually, I don't really
01:23:42.279 --> 01:23:44.000
know if you would know the answer for this, but
01:23:44.000 --> 01:23:46.520
is it legal to be there and stream the whole
01:23:46.520 --> 01:23:49.739
event as a spectator? Actually, I don't think
01:23:49.739 --> 01:23:55.340
so. I would say no. I think it depends on which
01:23:55.340 --> 01:23:59.100
round it is. I know that for qualification, it
01:23:59.100 --> 01:24:02.460
would probably be possible. But for semifinals
01:24:02.460 --> 01:24:04.699
and finals, I don't think that would be possible.
01:24:05.140 --> 01:24:07.399
Yeah, I guess that makes sense because the local...
01:24:07.880 --> 01:24:10.720
Broadcast team has the TV rights. Yeah, I mean,
01:24:10.739 --> 01:24:16.359
there are TV rights for sure. So even to have
01:24:16.359 --> 01:24:19.100
your camera and taking pictures, et cetera, you
01:24:19.100 --> 01:24:22.300
would need an accreditation. Like you got one
01:24:22.300 --> 01:24:27.359
in Keishao, I think. Yeah. And I know that there
01:24:27.359 --> 01:24:33.420
are some athletes who were doing some videos
01:24:33.420 --> 01:24:38.300
about... their competition and, like, you know,
01:24:38.300 --> 01:24:41.079
their vlog, how did it go in the semifinals,
01:24:41.220 --> 01:24:45.560
etc. And, yeah, they needed some accreditation
01:24:45.560 --> 01:24:48.180
for that, for example. A complicated process.
01:24:48.399 --> 01:24:51.659
I guess you would have to ask. Yeah, it's probably
01:24:51.659 --> 01:24:55.000
not. If you want to install a camera on a tripod
01:24:55.000 --> 01:24:59.140
and to film the full qualifications, maybe. Maybe.
01:24:59.180 --> 01:25:02.220
I think they would be okay with that. But you
01:25:02.220 --> 01:25:05.300
would need to ask, I think, before. For semifinals
01:25:05.300 --> 01:25:08.640
and finals, probably not. Cool. I think that
01:25:08.640 --> 01:25:11.140
is all the questions I had then. Thanks for joining
01:25:11.140 --> 01:25:13.699
me today. Is there anything you want to shout
01:25:13.699 --> 01:25:15.800
out or let people know where they could find
01:25:15.800 --> 01:25:19.000
you if they have further discussion topics? Yes.
01:25:19.020 --> 01:25:21.619
I mean, I have a quite confidential Instagram,
01:25:21.819 --> 01:25:26.699
but if you want to trash me on Instagram now,
01:25:26.819 --> 01:25:32.350
yeah, I'm Antonafareller. OK, I will leave the
01:25:32.350 --> 01:25:35.930
link in the description. Any last minute thoughts,
01:25:36.189 --> 01:25:37.689
or you feel like you got everything out there?
01:25:38.670 --> 01:25:43.510
No, I think we have covered most of it. I will
01:25:43.510 --> 01:25:46.909
do my best to improve the predictions, but yeah.
01:25:47.050 --> 01:25:50.770
Good to hear. All right. Okay. Thank you again.
01:25:50.829 --> 01:25:53.029
And it was amazing to talk to you. Yeah. Thank
01:25:53.029 --> 01:25:55.729
you very much. Thank you so much for making it
01:25:55.729 --> 01:25:58.210
to the end of the podcast. Don't forget to like
01:25:58.210 --> 01:26:00.369
and subscribe if you enjoyed. Otherwise, you
01:26:00.369 --> 01:26:03.489
are a super big climber. If you're listening
01:26:03.489 --> 01:26:06.029
on a podcasting platform, I'd appreciate if you
01:26:06.029 --> 01:26:08.989
rate it five stars and you can continue the discussion
01:26:08.989 --> 01:26:12.149
on the free competition climbing discord linked
01:26:12.149 --> 01:26:14.609
in the description. Thanks again for listening.
